Steins;Gate and the Zero Escape series. Suikoden 2 and Witcher 3 for non-VNs.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that most who attack gaming as a storytelling medium haven't played many video games outside of the usual mainstream titles.
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I feel like I'm the only gamer that doesn't get Metal Gear Solid
- Thread starter BFIB
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Steins;Gate and the Zero Escape series. Suikoden 2 and Witcher 3 for non-VNs.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that most who attack gaming as a storytelling medium haven't played many video games outside of the usual mainstream titles.
Glass Shark
Banned
I get why people enjoy it, but I've never really been able to get into it because the controls have always seemed insane to me. But with Ground Zeroes and TPP making improvements there, I might check it out. I've picked up enough of the story through osmosis over the years that I think it might work out.
Moon_frogger
Member
So really the argument here is 'video games have shitty writing' not 'metal gear is shitty'.
Going back through metal gear solid 2 the other day, I have to admit it is full of inane plot twists, horrid voice acting and generally bad dialogue. It also has a more interesting premise and ideas than any other game in existence. It really is social commentary at its finest, wrapped in b movie schlock. I adore it.
Spieler Eins
Member
From what I've seen, I don't really get how this series is still big in the main stream. Not because it's bad, but because especially most things I got from 4 would seem like a pretty hard sell in the west (wth are these fanservice photo boss fights? Overly long cutscenes with a major character literally carrying a turd in his pants?).
I mostly play Japanese games, but Kojima's style is especially awkward, maybe because he's mixing anime shit with somewhat realistic art while blatantly ripping off hollywood movies. I guess I might even see it as a good thing that something different can still sell well, although I personally probably wouldn't be fond of these narratives. Kojima's apparent love for excrements isn't especially appealing, nor the awkward fan service and again mixture of random movie pieces and American history with shit like Raiden, that sticks out like a sore thumb.
If I liked stealth more, I might have still further checked it out though. Rising was cool, but that was at least full blown anime (and I still skipped many cutscenes). On the other hand, the horrid gameplay of ZoE2 also made me more hesitant of other Kojima gameplay.
I mostly play Japanese games, but Kojima's style is especially awkward, maybe because he's mixing anime shit with somewhat realistic art while blatantly ripping off hollywood movies. I guess I might even see it as a good thing that something different can still sell well, although I personally probably wouldn't be fond of these narratives. Kojima's apparent love for excrements isn't especially appealing, nor the awkward fan service and again mixture of random movie pieces and American history with shit like Raiden, that sticks out like a sore thumb.
If I liked stealth more, I might have still further checked it out though. Rising was cool, but that was at least full blown anime (and I still skipped many cutscenes). On the other hand, the horrid gameplay of ZoE2 also made me more hesitant of other Kojima gameplay.
Sumio Mondo
Member
^It's a common misconception that everything Kojima Productions ever made was done by Kojima. Kojima never touched the game design, planning, writing or direction for ZOE2, he just "produced" it. Same goes for their other titles like AC!D, Boktai and Rising (which was Platinum Games and written by one guy from Koji Pro).
I agree. Adventure game genre was around long before MGS ever was. But Metal Gear Solid 1 did help to advance/inspire the presentation of storytelling in games that didn't normally focus on narrative, especially in the action adventure genre. MGS1 did set the benchmark for the use of cutscenes in games at the time and definitely popularised the use of cutscenes in games. Before MGS1, I remember a lot of PSX games featuring really bad voice acting or just long text scrolls to show the story. The presentation at that time was pretty bad from Japanese developers on PSX.
I agree. Adventure game genre was around long before MGS ever was. But Metal Gear Solid 1 did help to advance/inspire the presentation of storytelling in games that didn't normally focus on narrative, especially in the action adventure genre. MGS1 did set the benchmark for the use of cutscenes in games at the time and definitely popularised the use of cutscenes in games. Before MGS1, I remember a lot of PSX games featuring really bad voice acting or just long text scrolls to show the story. The presentation at that time was pretty bad from Japanese developers on PSX.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
You catch on to snark pretty well, but not onto qualifiers that can keep us from ending up in an adventure game wankfest about hilarious Monkey Island scenes that line up with games "that take it lightly or sort of side step it by not taking themselves seriously at all" routine, or some hilarious attempt to make it seem like text-heavy rpgs that predate Planescape and Baldur's Gate were games that'd make a bard jealous.
If only Metal Gear Solid had done something for games other than set them back to the dark ages with it's terrible writing. Clear embarrassment to everything that came before that it is. There was so much direct competition at the forefront of mainstream gaming that profoundly altered the amount of attention the industry and consumers paid to everything from the story, to writing, voice acting, to cut scenes, to dialogue that can comprise storytelling. There was Blood Omen, and uh... Soul Reaver? Those set the industry on fire. Can't forget um... Blazing Dragons?
I think people focus too much on "Story".
I love MGS to death but it's not because the plot is amazing or anything, it's just that I'm attached to the characters because they are developed and attaching.
I personally don't know any games that have characters as complex, especially the villains.
I love MGS to death but it's not because the plot is amazing or anything, it's just that I'm attached to the characters because they are developed and attaching.
I personally don't know any games that have characters as complex, especially the villains.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Your codename suits you well.
Absolutely I have said as much in previous posts on this topic and that game in particular in the past. I wasn't taking away from what it did, but merely putting to rest the idea that it was the sole torch bearer for advancements of the like.
You need to organize your thoughts or drop the snark altogether. Your second paragraph starts with two sentences referencing statements I never made, and the rest is so drenched in tryhard wittiness that I truly cannot decipher what in the hell your point is.
Story comes up in discussions about Metal Gear, because its gameplay, design, polish and even soundtracks are pristine, and have been for some time now. It has as far as I'm concerned a single flaw. And that's the writing. Its kind of like trying to discuss MK8 from a critical perspective and expecting that weak ass battle mode to not be mentioned.
Its nearly impossible.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Hey, though. If you're not talking about adventure games or rpgs from the 80's and early 90's when you say MGS didn't do anything that wasn't already done in regards to writing once being just a footnote in games, then feel free to shine a light on that deep cavern of unknown gems that make MGS look like a step backwards in 1998.
NinjaBoiX
Member
This is the main issue for me, the characters are all so ridiculously loquacious. I wouldn't care if it was because there is so much story to tell, but it's not. It's that they seem to just go round and round in circles, reiterating the same banal plot points and meandering tangents. And then you get to the end and after all that effort and patience it's all just a load of convoluted, nonsensical, grade school bullshit.
Urgh, I'm just immediately like "skip" on every cut scene with this series, couldn't be less interested. It just doesn't resonate with me in the least.
Okay so its reading comprehension then. Or you just honestly missed a post. The second quote of mine you are hanging there was in response to someone asking what games I have played that I consider having good stories. (Notice how I quoted someone?)
You are also mixing and matching statements across posts poorly. I never said MGS didn't do anything that wasn't already done in regards to writing before in gaming. I did however make that statement about the metal gear on MSX which predated Metal Gear Solid on the PSX, and I stand by it having played through it several times.
I also never said or implied that MGS was a step backwards in any way shape or form. Fall back soldier.
RandomSeed
Member
I'm glad I got MGS V free (video card), that's what I'll say. I did the prologue and first mission, and it's like I'm playing a different game from the people that love it. No biggie.
