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[ourumov]

Dunno but this gen has been very sad. With a stellar lineup of games the GC has failed to clearly win the 2nd market position (perhaps it will sell more but I think that GC sales should be the double of the Xbox ones) and that says a lot about Nintendo's actual position.
Sure they still have benefits and that they bussiness model is profitable as hell...But step by step Nintendo is losing protagonism in the market and I fear we end seing a SEGA - 2.

The fact is that the way they do their business is the way of a 3rd party. They only care about their products selling and nothing more. Userbase is no longer a matter of importance and so it isn't the sales of 3rd parties (see how bad they have driven the RE4 marketing; at least in Europe).
So in my opinion the question is not if they have to go 3rd party or not because the benefits but if they would loose anything going this way.

Nintendo could be wise and could sign a no-fees contract with Sony for the next gen. Nintendo gets free publishing rights (no fees to Sony) and SOny gets the best software company exclusive to them. Release a special controller for Nintendo games and if you want to still do hardware let's keep in the handheld space.

Nintendo is one of my 3-essential companies along with Capcom and Konami so having all them on the same system would be a dream. A dream called SNES2

 

[Ranger X]

I don't really care as long as I have my Mario, Zelda, and distinct Nintendo game fix every few years. The problem with going third party though is it may cripple Nintendo's ability to make the games I like and love.

Animal Crossing probably would not have been made if it was a 3rd party title for the PS2.

Agreed but i don't want a fix like Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, i've been deceived by those titles. Damn Mario 63 and Ocarina of Time were so good, what the fuck happened?
(and as for Wind Waker i have to tell you that i did like the art direction, it was really in the gameplay department it wasn't as good as other Zeldas before)

 

[AniHawk]

Agreed but i don't want a fix like Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, i've been deceived by those titles. Damn Mario 63 and Ocarina of Time were so good, what the fuck happened?
(and as for Wind Waker i have to tell you that i did like the art direction, it was really in the gameplay department it wasn't as good as other Zeldas before)

I think that Nintendo finally got the message to stop delaying games. SM64 delayed the N64 a while. OoT was pushed back a while until it settled into the 1998 date (and there were still 2 dungeons they wanted to add there, IIRC). They put this into practice this gen and we got Metroid Prime when they said, we got Super Mario Sunshine when they said, and we got The Wind Waker when they said. Pikmin 2 was the only title of theirs I remember being delayed a long time, and it turned out fantastic.

Now this new Zelda will probably have been in development for about 2.5-3 years (which is a nice timeframe for anyone but Rare), so perhaps they've figured things out by now (especially since they already have the engine). If so, then I'll say that the problem with their earlier titles was the lack of development time.

 

[Ranger X]

I know you didn't like the controls ( i'm also not all that fond of them ) but Metroid Prime is a nice and well done game imo. ALOT better and more polished than Wind Wanker and Shine Get. Oh yeah and Pikmin2 rules I guess devellopement is indeed part of the mystery here coming to think of it.

 

[ziran]

Chances are they will make more money too.

maybe, but i don't think so.

nintendo has just forecasted a $760 million profit, of which a huge amount has come from third party fees, and sales of hardware. ds has sold 6 million in 5 months!

i think nintendo software could be swamped on ps2, look at how capcom's struggling - so many big name games just aren't doing the business, even mgs3 hasn't sold anywhere near the previous titles.

i think the third party solution nintendo has come with is the best way for them. third parties develop nintendo franchises as we've seen with f-zero gx, starfox, mariokart arcade, mario tennis, mario baseball, donkey konga, dk king of swing, zelda minish cap, pokemon dash, etc, etc, while nintendo works on original projects like ds, revolution, nintendogs, etc. this way third parties make money with nintendo (i imagine nintendo is paying for dev costs) via profit share which will make it more likely for third party exclusives, while nintendo innovates trying to expand their market.

 

[AniHawk]

I know you didn't like the controls ( i'm also not all that fond of them ) but Metroid Prime is a nice and well done game imo. ALOT better and more polished than Wind Wanker and Shine Get. Oh yeah and Pikmin2 rules I guess devellopement is indeed part of the mystery here coming to think of it.

Actually, I didn't mind the controls, as the only games in the genre I'd played a lot of were Perfect Dark and GoldenEye 007. I just thought MP was boring. I was underwhelmed from pretty much beginning to start. However, I included it with SMS and TWW not because how I felt about it, but because it was a Nintendo game that wasn't delayed. I was so damn sure that SMS would be Holiday 2002, MP would be Holiday 2003, and TWW would be Holiday 2004.

 

[etiolate]

Would you mind etiolating why?

There just isn't much third party wise that interests me on the Xbox. I like Bioware, but I just got the PC version of KOTOR instead. There's Sega andTecmo and.. what? Splinter Cell? Hate stealth games. I like Rallisport and I'd like to try Phantom Dust. I like Sega, but they jumped ship. I'd much rather have Viewtiful Joe, Tales of Symphonia, RE4, the other Resident Evil games, Baten Kaitos, Monkey Ball, Skies of Arcadia, Harvest Moon, Rogue Leader/Rebel Strike, etc. Hell, I'd prefer the Bomberman games the Gamecube gets to yet another war FPS. Most of the type of games third party wise that Xbox gets are redundant, I've reached my hrair point with FPS and dark action titles and my bunny ears need something to mix it up with. That's why I'd love to try Phantom Dust or Psychonaughts, two drastically different games from your typical Xbox title and two games MS kicked to the curb. The mentality behind the Xbox is not the same one that I have. I guess that overall lack of uniquity amongst the Xbox library leaves me uninterested, especially since I have a PS2 and PC. What is the Xbox's greatest third party claim to fame? Slightly better versions of PS2 games?

 

[Borys]

There just isn't much third party wise that interests me on the Xbox. I like Bioware, but I just got the PC version of KOTOR instead. There's Sega andTecmo and.. what? Splinter Cell? Hate stealth games. I like Rallisport and I'd like to try Phantom Dust. I like Sega, but they jumped ship. I'd much rather have Viewtiful Joe, Tales of Symphonia, RE4, the other Resident Evil games, Baten Kaitos, Monkey Ball, Skies of Arcadia, Harvest Moon, Rogue Leader/Rebel Strike, etc. Hell, I'd prefer the Bomberman games the Gamecube gets to yet another war FPS. Most of the type of games third party wise that Xbox gets are redundant, I've reached my hrair point with FPS and dark action titles and my bunny ears need something to mix it up with. That's why I'd love to try Phantom Dust or Psychonaughts, two drastically different games from your typical Xbox title and two games MS kicked to the curb. The mentality behind the Xbox is not the same one that I have. I guess that overall lack of uniquity amongst the Xbox library leaves me uninterested, especially since I have a PS2 and PC. What is the Xbox's greatest third party claim to fame? Slightly better versions of PS2 games?

That's exactly why I never bothered with Xbox. A great PC makes it so redundant, like a younger brother. Xbox = poor man's PC in my opinion. Lacks the mods, lacks the whole internet community.

Absolutely great console if you don't game on PC. I do so it's not for me.
Absolutely worst console if you game on PC and happen to love jRPGs.

I will be the first in line for X2 if Microsoft says to me: "Hey Borys! Look at those unbelievable new games that won't make their way to your PC or PS3 EVER!"

What is the Xbox's greatest third party claim to fame?

(exclusives, based on reviews or hype)
Fable? Ninja Gaiden? DOA? PGR? Forza? Unreal Championship?

 

[AniHawk]

There just isn't much third party wise that interests me on the Xbox. I like Bioware, but I just got the PC version of KOTOR instead. There's Sega andTecmo and.. what? Splinter Cell? Hate stealth games. I like Rallisport and I'd like to try Phantom Dust. I like Sega, but they jumped ship. I'd much rather have Viewtiful Joe, Tales of Symphonia, RE4, the other Resident Evil games, Baten Kaitos, Monkey Ball, Skies of Arcadia, Harvest Moon, Rogue Leader/Rebel Strike, etc. Hell, I'd prefer the Bomberman games the Gamecube gets to yet another war FPS. Most of the type of games third party wise that Xbox gets are redundant, I've reached my hrair point with FPS and dark action titles and my bunny ears need something to mix it up with. That's why I'd love to try Phantom Dust or Psychonaughts, two drastically different games from your typical Xbox title and two games MS kicked to the curb. The mentality behind the Xbox is not the same one that I have. I guess that overall lack of uniquity amongst the Xbox library leaves me uninterested, especially since I have a PS2 and PC. What is the Xbox's greatest third party claim to fame? Slightly better versions of PS2 games?

Xbox Live.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I own all three home console systems.

There are enough games exclusive to Gamecube to make the system worth owning.

For my personal tastes there are more worth owning on Gamecube than there are on Xbox. I'm not so sure about PS2 because its library is so insanely vast, but when I own at least 20+ games that I consider between A and AAA and the common tie ratio for a console is a fraction of that - then the system is viable. It doesn't matter to me who makes those games that I like. Whether the majority of them are from Nintendo themselves or not is irrelevant. Not only is the console rediculously cheap, but it has great games to boot. The pad feels great, the Wavebird is the best pad out of them all IMHO, the gameboy player is great for handheld enthusiasts, and even in spite of a lacking online plan - it has some of the best multiplayer games this generation.

All that says to me is that if Nintendo gets their shit in gear, there'll be all of those great Nintendo games AND the same third party content I can get on other consoles.

I think people should think of Nintendo's first party efforts for a moment as exclusives the competition will never, and can never have. For those still into Nintendo's certain style of gaming, there's no bigger plus.

 

[acidviper]

Dont get me wrong I am still getting a Revolution simply for a sequel to SSBM, hell I am still playing it(I dont know if that shows how good the game is or how shitty the GC lineup is). But god damn Nintendo completely sucks for third parties. I dont think that third parties will come even if they removed royalty fees all together, that's how hard they suck.

Nintendo should just make games on the PS2, that way I dont need a whole new system for their games, I mean seriously why else get a GC or any other Nintendo console?

If you think the other games are shit, then don't buy any of them.

 

[ourumov]

The only reason for Nintendo to go third party should be the increase of profits. I know they already have them but I think they could do a sweet deal with Sony/MS and earn a lot more while at the same time changing their image.
The users you can target developing for let's say PS3 could help Nintendo to gain new buyers...and then perhaps make a return for the next gen after PS3 with much more strong chances to be the number one.

I know the question is not about being the number one in sales but in profits but in my opinion Nintendo fighting with those two giants in the current situation has only the option to lose (perhaps not at a near term but at a long). They should really try to increase their userbase while keeping profit and in my opinion the only chance is to target to the biggest userbase possible for a while.

 

[ge-man]

Wah, wah, wah.

Another gamer thinks that Nintendo should go 3rd party regardless of how well they do from their current position.

It's not happening guys, okay. You might as well move on because Nintendo isn't likely to hit a Sega type of situation in the immediate future. They will do what they think is right and probably earn a profit from it. I doubt the cries of hardcore gamers and forumites will magically jump from a profitable business model and into an uncertain future as 3rd party.

 

[radioheadrule83]

They're probably doing the right thing.

They can't increase userbase and maintain profits forever if they just release they exact same things as Sony and Microsoft without having the resources to draw on their media knowledge.

People are fickle if everything on offer is pretty much the same. It's the small things, the little details on the spec sheets and media hype that force their hands in those situations. Think about third party titles and graphics:

If a few more months had of been spent on the Gekko/Flipper technology they could have made it more powerful than Xbox's NV2a -- it was finalised before NV2a and look at how well some GC games have turned out. The only plus to Xbox third party games then would have been Xbox Live (which 10-15% of Xbox users use) and the hard-drive for saves and music. Even I have been buying my third party titles on Xbox this gen because they're the best looking.

But what if Microsoft don't have the best looking third party titles next gen? And what if Nintendo Revolution has a significantly different gaming factor that makes their versions of these games more attractive? Nintendo know that Sony have good exclusives and partnerships with third parties, a wealth of media to draw on etc. They know that Microsoft desire to out-do Sony in every regard. So they know they need to throw out more reasons for the fickle shop goer to consider buying their hardware. I like that they're trying to make themselves an "AND" system maker instead of an "OR" one.

I think all this Nintendo talk down is placing them in firm underdog status for a "wow, thats the new Nintendo?" comeback.

As I argued before, Nintendo systems are still viable systems because of the amount of good to great games worth owning alone. Even if a lot do come from Nintendo themselves.

 

[ElyrionX]

I don't care whether Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft exits first but goddamn, can SOMEONE please just get out of the industry? One console would be perfect. Two would be a tad troublesome but manageable nonetheless. Three is just ridiculous.

 

[Chrono]

I don't care whether Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft exits first but goddamn, can SOMEONE please just get out of the industry? One console would be perfect. Two would be a tad troublesome but manageable nonetheless. Three is just ridiculous.

I've just thought of a solution...

Spoiler

Only buy two fucking consoles.

 

[ziran]

a deal with ms, remote possibility for a home console, if revolution fails.

but a deal with sony would never happen. kutaragi doesn't want nintendo to exist. i bet every ds sale is like a dagger in his side!

 

[Chrono]

kutaragi doesn't want nintendo to exist. i bet every ds sale is like a dagger in his side!

That's fucking awesome.

 

[Do The Mario]

I AGREE

Mario is Master Chief next gen!!!

 

[SantaC]

I think that Nintendo finally got the message to stop delaying games. SM64 delayed the N64 a while. OoT was pushed back a while until it settled into the 1998 date (and there were still 2 dungeons they wanted to add there, IIRC). They put this into practice this gen and we got Metroid Prime when they said, we got Super Mario Sunshine when they said, and we got The Wind Waker when they said. Pikmin 2 was the only title of theirs I remember being delayed a long time, and it turned out fantastic.

Now this new Zelda will probably have been in development for about 2.5-3 years (which is a nice timeframe for anyone but Rare), so perhaps they've figured things out by now (especially since they already have the engine). If so, then I'll say that the problem with their earlier titles was the lack of development time.

B I N G O. Wind Waker was rushed. Metroid Prime 2 was kinda rushed. I want Nintendo to take their time with games again.

 

[Chrono]

B I N G O. Wind Waker was rushed. Metroid Prime 2 was kinda rushed. I want Nintendo to take their time with games again.

Wind Waker rocked. Metroid Prime 2 rocked. I don't want Nintendo to delay their games a dozen times to add a single dungeon or an extra weapon. Let them use that extra time for other games. Hopefully new stuff.

 

[Do The Mario]

Wind Waker rocked.

Have you played any other Zelda games?

 

[Speevy]

I wish Nintendo would join Microsoft Games Studios.

 

[Scrow]

I love posting this pic in threads like these.

kutaragi doesn't want nintendo to exist. i bet every ds sale is like a dagger in his side!

oh? I wasn't going to buy a DS, but now...

 

[ziran]

B I N G O. Wind Waker was rushed. Metroid Prime 2 was kinda rushed. I want Nintendo to take their time with games again.

i think it's starting to happen, i'm sure nintendo's seen the error of its 'more titles less dev time' strategy. fire emblem has been delayed three times, the new zelda will have been in dev for at least 3 years by launch (maybe even as much as 6), and many ds titles have been given more time - mariokart, nintendogs, animal crossing. i also think paper mario 2, mario tennis and metroid prime 2 were polished, quality titles.

nintendo was no doubt under massive pressure and had to release gc prematurely because of xbox. luigi's mansion and a rushed waverace port are not worthy launch titles. mario sunshine and wind waker were similarly rushed (in the sense they could've been better) because they needed games.

 

[SantaC]

Wind Waker rocked. Metroid Prime 2 rocked.

They are not bad games at all, and that was not my point. But Nintendo can do even better. We know that.

 

[Jacobi]

Have you played any other Zelda games?

I've only played LTTP and OoT which I didn't like that much

 

[teruterubozu]

I think Nintendo just said "Fuck It" a long time ago. They keep saying they don't care about what Sony or Microsoft does - I think it's true to an extent. They still have a war chest of money and they're just going to do what they think is innovative. It's obvious they are blowing off 3rd party with the Revolution controller.

 

[jett]

Yeah uh, I'm pretty sure this topic has been done before.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Get a used Mario Bundle. I've seen used GCs come in for 55 bucks at Gamestop, controller, cords and all. You can get one of those "Sunshine" packs with a memcard included for less than 10 bucks more, and all the good GC titles can be found in the 'giveaway' bins. The only title on GC worth owning not in one of those bins yet is Resident Evil 4. I picked up Pikmin 2 and Metroid prime (both no manual, though) for less than 16 bucks combined. It's fast becoming as cheap as the Dreamcast, which is a good thing.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Nintendo probelm this gen and last gen, is they didn't have the third party title buying crowd. Each console has its hardcore gamers, the hardcore crowd favor the exclusives(first party/Third party).

In the beginning of a console life most third pary titles have a greater chance of high sales, the library is small so the publishers benefit from that. The GC had the third party title buying gamers early during launch and shortly after. But the issues of memory cards being to small for titles like Madden and Live, the library like lack of M rated titles that begin to show early into the life of the GC, saw once GC owners move to Xbox/PS2 owners.

Halo for the Xbox, brought MS a significant number of third party title game buyers.

With a title like Geist in development it shows some acknowledgement to the importance of M rated titles, Nintendo just has to offer this at launch. But also deliver these titles on a consistent bases, they have to fund the development of more titles that are M rated. The shelf should never be over populated with E titles, there should be a balance of T/M rated titles in stores.

I think Nintendo will far better support early on during the launch of Revolution then they had with the GC. Free online gaming, development environment similar to GC, its up to Nintendo and whether or not they want to keep the early adopters and third party developers. With a significant number of exclusive M rated titles they could end up doing better then what is expected of them.

 

[God's Hand]

I only own Nintendo games, so I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Unless everyone who bailed on GC early on were getting paid to do so, I don't buy the politics bit. No sane company is going to walk away from money on the table through some imaginary politics...they had their reasons, and it most likely had to do with their sales on that platform.

Some of the GameCube's third party situation has been really shitty luck, where success doesn't seem to matter. Games like Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee, Tales of Symphonia, Soul Calibur 2, and the non-card Phantasy Star Online games which did well on GameCube while the followups have or will not make a GameCube appearance.

Then there are the GameCube exclusives that did get GameCube sequels that ended up elsewhere anyway and thus fail to remain a point for GameCube particularly. See Super Monkey Ball and Viewtiful Joe series.

 

[Scottlarock]

early in nintendo's life did they really delay 3rd party games so they wouldn't hurt sales of their games? or starve the system of games until one came out so everyone would buy it? did they really do this? this would explain alot even if not true nowadays...IIRC didn't they want $15 from 3rd parties when sony asked for $8?



And I blame the hardcore nintendo fans that only buy the system for nindendo games....why would a publisher release a 3rd party game on NGC if it won't sell without some exclusive content or is exclusive?(SCII/RE)

 

[ge-man]

Some of the GameCube's third party situation has been really shitty luck, where success doesn't seem to matter. Games like Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee, Tales of Symphonia, Soul Calibur 2, and the non-card Phantasy Star Online games which did well on GameCube while the followups have or will not make a GameCube appearance.

Then there are the GameCube exclusives that did get GameCube sequels that ended up elsewhere anyway and thus fail to remain a point for GameCube particularly. See Super Monkey Ball and Viewtiful Joe series.

I also think there is some politics involved. It's not so much a conspiracy against Nintendo but more of a case of developers supporting companies that share their vision of the industry. Nintendo has been talking about/making small scale games and building hardware to facilitate that purpose. Conversely, many in the this industry view it almost like a new Hollywood IMO, and from that perspective these folks are going to put more support into machines like the PS2 because the design reflects the convergance strategy (for instance, using a standard video medium and supporting digital sound).

Nintendo has made mistakes in terms of 3rd party (things like their fallout with DMA, not investing in Capcom when given the chance), but I also think they are a victim of a philosophical change in the industry. Games have been and still are considered toys from Nintendo's viewpoint, and that is directly in conflict with the philosophy of the company that is dictating the direction of the industry. This is also why I think the whole dream about them going 3rd party is a joke. There are advantages to having your own platform that go beyond merely benefiting from licensing, and in the case of Nintendo they aren't bothered by the same degree of pressure to develop derivative games, use toy and movie licenses, or to pour more resources into creating a movie like presentation (they have hardly invested in CG and voice acting this generation while others have spent a fortune doing so). I'm sure if Sega was given a second chance and had access to better management, they would prefer to work on their own platform as well.

 

[Mejilan]

What a stupid fucking thread.

'Nintendo sucks, they fail at 3rd party. I'll get their games and systems anway... Wah wah wah.'

 

[shpankey]

Third party situation for Gamecube was much improved. I'd take the Gamecube's third party support over Xbox and yet I don't hear people bitching about XBox's 3rd party lineup.

What dream world do you live in? :lol

 

[Jared Goodwin]

What a stupid fucking thread.

'Nintendo sucks, they fail at 3rd party. I'll get their games and systems anway... Wah wah wah.'

The thread title wasn't enough of a clue?

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Nintendo still makes great games, but it's not enough for me to buy their system just for that. They used to make the best games period, ie. Mario 3, Yoshi's Island, Super Metroid, etc. But nowadays the quality of thier games has gone down, I guess some of it has to do with Miyamoto's hands off approach. I was also very dissapointed by the lack of polish on Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker. Nintendo need to get back to doing what they do best, making the best damn videogames in the industry rather than making just 'decent' to 'great' games, I expect more of them. The new Zelda seems like a return to form for them, lets hope they execute to the level of OOT...

 

[TheTurtleTitan]

By the way, if Nintendo actually went PlayStation-exclusive, I hope they make a custom GameCube-ish controller for their games, because I don't like the DualShock.

 

[monkeyrun]

I was also very dissapointed by the lack of polish on Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker. Nintendo need to get back to doing what they do best, making the best damn videogames in the industry rather than making just 'decent' to 'great' games, I expect more of them. The new Zelda seems like a return to form for them, lets hope they execute to the level of OOT...

if Wind Waker's not polished I don't know what is.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Unless everyone who bailed on GC early on were getting paid to do so, I don't buy the politics bit. No sane company is going to walk away from money on the table through some imaginary politics...they had their reasons, and it most likely had to do with their sales on that platform.

LucasArts did it.

 

[goodcow]

Atari started it. Nintendo pioneered it. Sony made it mainstream. Microsoft will buy it out.

What did Sega do? Fail at it?

 

[xsarien]

What did Sega do? Fail at it?

Well, they're kinda 1 for 5 (I'm counting the Game Gear). Do the math.

 

[Do The Mario]

You got IT, IT is what you got now come give IT to me

 

[Ristamar]

LucasArts did it.

True. *looks at LEGO Star Wars*

 

[Link316]

True. *looks at LEGO Star Wars*

Lego Star Wars is Eidos and they don't publish GC games anymore

 

[AniHawk]

What did Sega do? Fail at it?

I think that was brought up at one point. Atari (or Nintendo) wasn't in there in the beginning. I think the extended sig included Sega somehow, but I really don't remember.

 

[xsarien]

Lego Star Wars is Eidos and they don't publish GC games anymore

Not that it makes up for a lack of GCN support, but if Eidos keeps going down the road they've chosen, they won't be publishing for anyone unless they start getting their act together.

(Or get bought out. Are they being bought out? I remember something about them being bought out.)

 

[Link316]

true, but Eidos' in desperate need of cash so its kinda unlikely that they would've dropped the GC if it was profitable for them