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I love Metal Gear to death, yet I have zero interest in MGSV

The End

Member
My big beef with MGSV coming out of Ground Zeroes is that tonally, there's just too big of a disconnect now: you can have a serious examination of child soldiers, torture, rape as a weapon of war, or you can have giant robots and ninjas and psychic powers. It's a fine line, but with the direction that Kojima took
Chico/Paz
in, it's too much.
 

Corpsepyre

Banned
My situation is almost the complete opposite. I loved Metal Gear, until MGS4 made the series dead and buried for me after the colossal failure that it was. Now, Ground Zeroes has shown to me that MGSV is not only well on its way to being my favorite game of the series, but quite possibly my favorite game overall. Which is saying a lot, because never in all my years as a gamer have I been able to decide my own personal game of the forever.

Colossal failure? Really?

94 meta rating and a bucketload of sales equals a colossal failure? You might not have liked something, and that's perfectly fine as it's your thing, but that's one hell of an objective statement right there that isn't warranted.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I was never really a fan of this idea. If a character being interesting hinges on "mystique" and the fact that the audience has to make up/guess/imagine tons of details that aren't explicitly explained about them, and having those things explained worsens the character, then I would argue they were never really that compelling to begin with

It's not a matter mystique. It's a matter of responsible usage of show and tell. Not all things about a character need to be mentioned for the audience. It makes things bloated, and it also assumes that an audience can't be inferred of certain events, as the subjectivity is what ultimately makes a story beautiful in the eyes of the beholder.

A good story can engross you with it's character but a great one will mostly be able to depict that character merely through subtle nuances and through their actions. This is something a game like Portal does so well due to the way the main antagonist interacts with you. This is something the Metroid games (prior to Other M) did great as well, simply by observing the way Samus behaved in several of the Prime cutscenes you could still deduce many things about the protagonist you're in control of, such as how they react in the face of danger or how calculating and observant they are of every new area.

The same applies to Big Boss, especially in MGS3. He exhibits a lot of more "personality" than Snake did in the mainline Solid games, comes across as generally more vulnerable and emotional. Hell, he even has less of a deadpan sense of humor, just observe how he cracks a smile at the beginning of Virtuous Mission when he figured out that he could get rid of the guards with just a beehive. The grand twist of MGS3 is told without a single word uttered by him, and if we consider his ultimate role in the games that follow (i.e games like the first two Metal Gear games), we get so much context and can see so much of the idealistic principles he stood by when he ended up going down the path of a villain.

Sometimes, less is more, and as much as I love Metal Gear and where they've taken the series, there's no need for it to go to this capacity.
 
MGS4 killed the franchise with it's bad way of resolving the plot.
MGS ground zeroes was just ridiculous releasing a 30 dollar demo
 

JaseMath

Member
I'm not interested unless MGS V proves that MGS 2 and 4 were some kind of coma dreams that Big Boss was having.
 

facelike

Member
Not having a solid release date has killed all hype for me. When they announce one, then I'll get excited. But it's day one for me like all the rest of the MG games.
 

ArjanN

Member
I never get the issue people have with prequels. "you know how everything ends up" Sure, in a general sense maybe, but you don't know the exact hows and whys, and it can just tell it's own story anyway.

MGS4 was a bigger reason to be down on the series IMO. Ground Zeroes actually gave me hope again for V.
 
I always had a love-hate relationship with the MGS series. One one hand, it's one of my favorite game series of all time, on the other, there are so many decisions and things they did with it that did not go so well in most games in the series, that it makes it hard to have blind faith in Kojima games. The guy is both a genious and a moron at times, often in the same game.

I still regards MGS1 and MGS3 as two of the best games ever created, mostly because they were self-contained, mostly coherent narratives with great, memorable characters and settings and that did so many things almost perfectly and because they nailed the gameplay for their respective time. They had a great mix of story vs gameplay, they had self contained plots that were well established and conclusions that befit and gave the game an emotional and narrative payoff.

Then there's games like MGS2 and MGS4, cutscene infested mess of a game filled with corny plot twists and that imho miss the mark overall. I mean, both MGS2 and MGS4 had great gameplay systems, but barely any decent gameplay segments to use them. I mean, thank god for MGO, cause otherwise MGS4's great combat system would have been barely used since the campaign only had two real acts followed by three linear acts that barely qualify as a game. MGS2 was pretty much a MGS1 reharsh on a bland location, constantly making you backtrack to disarm bombs with a non-charsmatic main character... And don't get me started on the loss of any believability this series had, something MGS4 made even worse by solving any plot hole with "it was nanomachines".

Games like Portable Ops and Peace Walker seemed like side diversions to milk Big Boss's timeline for as many games as possible before catching up to the past, just like Ground Zeroes does feel like a demo that was sold at retail. Overall, there's something I don't like about how Kojima keeps moving Big Boss's character transformation act at a snail's pace just so he can make as many games as possible before the rise of Outer Heaven. I mean, what we all wanted to see was the rise of Foxhound and Outer Heaven, instead we saw the San Hyeronimo uprising, the rise of a couple of oilrigs that get destroyed and now, maybe, if Kojima is feeling kind, maybe, just maybe MGSV will end with the setup for MG1 finally established, although I doubt it... Otherwise we would be building Outer Heaven proper and not another lame oilrig. I never really got why people love Peace Walker that much, it has short missions, the worse stealth in the series, it's a grindfest of repetitive missions and gmp and soldier farming and overall, the plot brings nothing new and kinda breaks the timeline and believability of the Big Boss games in regards to tech development (AI flying robots in the 70s, riiight).

It's somewhat annoying to see that Kojima absolutely nailed the mood and seriousness of war in the trailers and Ground Zeroes, yet pretty much all he showcases of MGSV gameplay depict an overused of corny peace walker-esque gadgets that break immersion and go for giggles over realism. Horse Poop that knocks out guards and sends jeep crashing, check, cardboard box with pinup, check, inflatable statues that keep saying "kept you waiting huh"... Check.

I also have a hard time believing Kojima will deliver on his promises. I mean, MGS3 was supposed to be an open jungle where you could take numerous paths to reach the main base, MGS4 was supposed to be a complex game about choosing sides and helping militia or PMC and influencing conflict, so I'm half expecting MGSV to be a series of not too memorable side ops set on a huge mostly empty map that's tedious to navigate due to it's scope, basically driving five kilometers to reach a small base and rescue a guy / get intel , with a couple real story missions every now and then to advance the narrative.


Go back and play Snatcher and Policenauts and you'll see just like in MGS4, that Kojima has this huge idea for a big mystery in numerous chapters , he stats making very large and interesting "acts", then it seems like he's pressured to complete the game and the latter half of the game extremely short acts/chapters with very little interactivity, wrapping things up hastility. You can spend hours in the first acts, then minutes completing the final acts, as if Kojima wanted to be able to claim "this game has 5 acts" when in fact it has two proper acts and a couple filler acts that act more like epilogues than anything else.

Overall, I say I have some faith in MGSV. If it can avoid being too ridiculous with fultons and poop jokes, if it can maintain the tense and dark vibe of Ground Zeroes, if it does not introduce a billion more high tech stuff that did not exist in the 80s and if truly advances Big Boss's story and not just have him build another nation that is discarded by the end... But like all other MGS games ,it has the potential to be the greatest game ever, or a plothole mess filled with going in circles in a big empty map... Guess only time will tell.

Well said, and I actually played Policnauts and found it to be great but I see your point.
 
I kind of feel the same way. After finishing 4 & Peace Walker, that story is told.

I got Ground Zeroes anyway because there was nothing else on PS4 at the time, and it wasn't bad, but it also feels like we're onto some other thing now.

I'll probably get 5 at some point, and it will also probably take me forever to get though like 4 did.
 

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I understand your reasoning OP. It's like the more we come full circle the less interesting the stories will become before we start just retelling the old games. "This next game will be about that time toddler Solid Snake decided he was gonna rid Big Mama's kitchen from the threat of Chocolate Chip Cookies!"

I think Kojima has done a good job of making Solid and Big Boss equally interesting. I personally prefer Solid Snake, there's something tragic about him and his worldview (I know he's a killer), knowing what he knows and being what he is.

I think you should keep your eyes on V, though. It may surprise you. Maybe you'll like what Kojima does with his game and this will be no different. It's just the nature of a prequel. Don't let that ruin it for you.
wtzgU.gif
 

Pyrrhus

Member
It's a fine line, but with the direction that Kojima took
Chico/Paz
in, it's too much.

Too much? It's completely tasteless hackery. To go from the way PW ended, where
Paz reveals she's a double agent in dramatic anime fashion and strips down into her underwear to fight in the Metal Gear's inexplicably liquid-filled cockpit to a terriblemodern j-pop song in a 1970s setting
, to what they did with the characters in GZ... It's like doing a revival of Doug and having the first episode revolve around the gang rape of Patti Mayonaise. It's tonally incompatible. It's disrespectful to your characters and to your audience. In any other medium, it would be the sort of thing that outright killed your credibility as an artist.
 

Oneself

Member
One thing that I don't like about MGS5 is the camera/cutscene directing... It's annoying and breaks the immersion as if there was a shaky cameraman always rotating around everything Michael Bay style.
 

K.Sabot

Member
I am also lacking for excitement for MGSV because it's between two games pretty closely.

I can deduce the fate of any new character of some importance that doesn't appear in later games (deaaaaaad) and everyone else that is important to the story that makes it out are already dead in other games.


I'm playing it for the gameplay.
 
I was emotionally exhausted after 4. I felt the answers I had was answered. I knew it could only be apeshit insane after the mess that was MGS2s clusterfuck ending.

I bought a MGS4 PS3 bundle because of the game. Played it intensely. Never even tried the online. After I finished the post-credits scene I just took it out and was like "That was awesome, but I am done now. This crazy story has reached its conclusion with that insane 20-30 minute ending cut scenes that tried cut more loose ends than ROTKs 4 endings".


Combined with Jack Bauer voicing Snake I am pessimistic. For the first time I don't think Kojima is in control. Nanomachines.
At least we have Metal Gear Rising. Rising is its own thing. Didn't felt like Metal Gear to me at all, but it didn't better. It handled amazingly. Too bad the story was so weak. At least the last battle is the battle to end all last boss battles. What a game. Got 20% more chest hair after I completed that... Because it has to be that way ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlJaMc_PCN8 )
 

J2d

Member
My interest in the series nosedived after MGS4. I am having difficulty getting excited for another MGS game. When I think of the series, I pretend it stopped with MGS3.
Pretty much this, I don't have much faith in Kojima but I might pick up MGS5 at a sale.
 
Yeah I'm lukewarm on MGSV too but I'm sure I'll get super hyped closer to release. Ground Zeros really put a damper on it though. It felt like it took itself way too seriously compared to the other games. Hopefully Phantom Pain won't be like that.

I'm definitely not expecting anything to reach the greatness of MGS2 and MGS4 though.
 
I'll play GZ when the PP is near release.

nah, man. Play it now. Chances are it will change your opinion on TPP. The gameplay has never been this good. Controlling Big Boss feels so good, the gameplay is made intoxicating. I just want to keep playing when I'm playing. It's amazing.
 
I never really got why people love Peace Walker that much, it has short missions, the worse stealth in the series, it's a grindfest of repetitive missions and gmp and soldier farming and overall, the plot brings nothing new and kinda breaks the timeline and believability of the Big Boss games in regards to tech development (AI flying robots in the 70s, riiight).

Human clones in the 70s, portable nukes in the 60s, cyborg ninjas in the 00s, there is no Metal Gear that doesn't revolve around impossible technology.

Peace Walker's short missions are actually its greatest strength. The small focused missions reduce the annoyance of the trial-and-error nature of stealth games. It's pretty much always clear what the challenge being presented is, and the smaller areas mean if you mess up you can get right back into the action. The gameplay is also really great, maybe my favourite in the series. The graphic novel style cutscenes were also really cool. I don't see how it's a grindfest, if you don't want to farm soldiers and build Metal Gear you don't have to. That's just there for the obsessive players, of which the MGS fan base has no short supply.
 

cafemomo

Member
I'm pretty excited for it.

I like the Boss arch the most. Hopefully they will release another compilation of all his games when the dust is settled
3/PW/GZ/PP/
PO+
 

J-Rod

Member
I feel the same way, OP. Considered myself a huge fan of MGS, but I can't bring myself to care this go around.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I think a real issue a lot of people have with where the series went is that MGS was at its coolest when it was about Solid Snake who was, at the time of MGS1, a cynical covert agent with very little actually known about him. What little was known concerned past operations that made him the cynic he is. The game spent an abnormal amount of time characterizing this guy, which I think made him into someone a lot of gamers wanted to be.

Then the series very quickly became NOT about Solid Snake. MGS2 simultaneously put you in someone else's shoes and expanded the story way beyond the scope of Snake himself. Then it reached back in time and became even less about Solid Snake.

The idea of examining young Big Boss, in and of itself, is a great one. David Hayter had the idea of making MGS3 sort of a Godfather II kind of thing where the story would jump back and forth between two time periods showing both Solid Snake and Big Boss. The execution of what we got I guess could be debated.

All that said, I am excited for Phantom Pain, but purely from a gameplay perspective.
 

tanod

when is my burrito
I'm in a similar boat.

MGS4 completely wrapped up that story, for me. I don't need any more Metal Gear.

Same for me.

MGS4 made me feel stupid for ever caring and completely disappointed me from a gameplay and pacing standpoint. It broke me as a fan. I used to spend hours discussing plot theories with folks and bought all the spin offs and dissected the trailers. But I was forcibly shown the error of my ways.

This too.
 
MGS4 was a big letdown for me. It felt like it was trying to make sense of too many things and I felt cheated of the mysticism intentionally left in MGS2. I want to replay before MGSV though because I think there were a lot of gut reactions and disappointments during my initial playthrough solely on it not being what I expected. MGSV this time around seems like everything I want, though. Big Boss is more relateable, he seems motivated by more than just a sense of goodness, and I'm excited to see what his last straw is.

I don't think I've ever hyped as hard for a game as I am for MGSV. I'm watching the trailers like 3 times a week and showing them to my friends who are uninterested in games under the guise that it's just for the spectacular music. When people see Kojima's cinematic approach they become instantly more interested in what the medium could be.

I haven't played Rising. I'm over future dystopian cyberpunk Metal Gear. I like James Bond secret agent, hold the robotics, add the magic.
 
It's nothing new, but seeing people use the best written (2) and worst written (4) games as equivalents shows why we'll never get something like MGS2 again, and it's disheartening.
 

On Demand

Banned
And then there is MSGV... For the first time I have no enthusiasm for this game, no anticipation, speculation , no ... anything.

Same here. I don't know what it is. The excitement i had from MGS, MGS2 and SE is not there. Maby we're absorbing too much information these days about games? Leaving little to the imagination?
 
MGS4 really ruined any interest in the series for me story-wise. So I don't care where Kojima takes it. All I know is that it looks like a much better game than MGS4. Open world MGS game with base building mechanics sounds great.

Tonally, I don't care much for this dark, personal revenge story they're going for.
 

Myriadis

Member
It's at least still better than getting massively hyped up, getting unrealistic expectations and inevitably getting disappointed that it isn't the groundbreaking thing you thought.
 
Same here. I don't know what it is. The excitement i had from MGS, MGS2 and SE is not there. Maby we're absorbing too much information these days about game? Leaving little to the imagination?

Around the time of MGS4's release, I only have seen a couple of trailers of the Middle East and when it was released and I didn't have a PS3, I was completely cut-off from anything related to the game. Everything else I discovered about the game, I was mind-blown in each and every aspect.

Same is for me this time, don't know and/or haven't seen much footage of TPP. Played GZ and I like to play all MGS games to a 100% but GZ didn't drive me to do that nor did PW.

I don't know could be me but I don't like the idea of an open-world gameplay style of the game, liked the scripted/corridor-ish gameplay of the game with subtle hints of being open-world (like 2-3 entry points to enter an area but nothing TOO open-world).
 

Muffdraul

Member
You sound exactly like me until a few months ago. I fell in love with the MGS1 franchise in 1998, and I continued to love it up until Peace Walker. I couldn't stomach the concessions they had to make to put it on a handheld, it wasn't that much better than Portable Ops. I did my best, but after just a couple of hours I never wanted to play it again. At the time I assumed that would be OK, that PW was about the same level of canon as PO. After MGSV was announced and it was revealed to be a direct sequel to PW, that basically erected a huge wall between me and MGSV. I simply could not get excited about it. I have this co-worker buddy who is also a huge MGS fan, and everytime a new MGSV video would come out, he'd come into my office and make me watch it. Then he'd ask "How can you not be hyped about this????" "You know why- Peace Walker. It's shitty and sucks." "Well this isn't Peace Walker!" I swear we had the same exact conversation at least three or four times.

When Ground Zeroes was about to come out, I said fuck it, I need to play through PW just so I can give this a fair shake. So I did. I fished out my MGS HD collection, I gritted my teeth and bore PW. Playing through the entire game didn't change my mind, in fact I probably have an even worse opinion of PW now than when I had only played the first couple of hours. But since then, I've been really really hyped for MGSV. Not because I can't wait to play the next chapter of the story PW started, but simply because I got PW out of the way and feel like the stage is properly set.
 

bender

What time is it?
Ground Zeroes has diminished my excitement. I'll still be there day one but I don't have any expectations at this point. I just don't think the game feels like Metal Gear anymore.
 

De_Legend

Banned
Same, Big MGS fan,

And GZ did nothing for me, slow motion crap, open world ish, ugh. So serious with some characters, kind of disturbing.

Hope MGS5 will make me love the series again...
 

petghost

Banned
Ground Zeroes has diminished my excitement. I'll still be there day one but I don't have any expectations at this point. I just don't think the game feels like Metal Gear anymore.

is it the gameplay or the tone of the narrative stuff? i think its about time the gameplay changed and it seems like there is still room for the player to be creative about solving problems while also having way more options than in previous entries.

i dno about the tone man it seems genuinely darker and its gonna be weird seeing them take these anime ass characters and try to set them against a story about the very real horrors of war. lm super interested to see how they handle it.
 

SMZC

Member
Colossal failure? Really?

94 meta rating and a bucketload of sales equals a colossal failure? You might not have liked something, and that's perfectly fine as it's your thing, but that's one hell of an objective statement right there that isn't warranted.

Yes, really. I don't care about metacritic scores or sales, the plot in MGS4 is a complete and utter joke under any standards of writing, single handedly ruining everything built by the previous games up until then.
 

LowParry

Member
Pff. OP isn't nuclear or wild.

Same, Big MGS fan,

And GZ did nothing for me, slow motion crap, open world ish, ugh. So serious with some characters, kind of disturbing.

Hope MGS5 will make me love the series again...

You can turn slow motion off. And you hate the idea of an open world-ish MGS? Weirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd.
 
You're missing out. GZ has the best gameplay in the series.

I kind of didn't like the wide open areas. Too many times I felt like I was spotted with no possible way I could have known. Watching S-Rank runs, it's clear that the only way to do it is to have a psychic-like knowledge of guard routes, running around in wide open spaces just between vision cones. Sure, Metal Gear has always involved this to a degree, but it feels a lot more acute now.
 

Ishida

Banned
Yes, really. I don't care about metacritic scores or sales, the plot in MGS4 is a complete and utter joke under any standards of writing, single handedly ruining everything built by the previous games up until then.

Not true at all, but whatever floats your boat. ;)
 
I played Ground Zeros and that is an appetizer for the entire game, IT WILL BE THE BEST GAME OF NEXT YEAR. The gameplay is on a level no other game seems to be matching. If you really loved MGS, this is MGS taken to a whole new level of gameplay perfection.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
I almost always feel this way about MGS.
It's just because they always do something different. Change is scary..
The difference between MGS and other things, is that most of the time they nail it.

I remember being bummed about MGS3's more open design.

It was the best MGS ever.

TRUST KOJIMA.
 
I feel ya. I've loved every single MGS game I've played since Solid.

MGS2 is probably my favorite for its insanity and its bait and switch. Hahaha! you're Raiden most of the game!

MGS3 was cool, but I didn't love it till Subsistence gave full control of the camera. Also the whole survival viewer to pull bullets, eat food, and put on camo was kinda annoying. Still a fantastic game.

MGS4 is, what I feel, the best way you could end the series. Sure the story was kinda dumb, but honestly, the whole series is kinda stupid, in an endearing way. I feel like it should have ended with 4. Partly because I'm so done with the story and don't need it to be anymore convoluted, if that's possible. Just end it already.

Kojima has such a hard-on for Big Boss MGS3, MGSPW, MGSGZ, MGS5. Big Boss has been in more mainline games than Solid Snake at this point (MGS, Tanker portion of MGS2, MGS4) In short, yeah, I'm with ya. Love the Metal Gear Solid games, but I can't just get into MGSV. Wish they would just reboot it or something.
 
This game is having the opposite effect for me. I've been pretty burnt out on MGS after MGS 3. This one is showing some pretty amazing gameplay options, I've very excited to get my hands on it.
 
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