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[Vigilant Walrus]

I gave up GW2 because of the messed up dungeon system, it's not fun at all.
I don't even think about raiding in GW2, it would be a torture.

It is a lot of fun. The problem with Dungeons in GW2 is that they give a bad impression because they are difficult and ask more of the player than what many are used to. There is no anywhere near the same dependency and reliance on movement, dodging real-time combat and twitch-skill, while at the same time navigating the tab-targetting encounters.

I've met countless people who came back later to the game, and they almost always say the same thing- "I was just turned off the game because it was so different from what I expected".


Dungeons in GW2 are not perfect. Not by a long shot, but there are some really cool ideas, and they get my heart racing a lot more than any dungeon I have ever played in WoW, SWTOR and so on.

It's also a misunderstanding that there are no teamwork. Lots of teamwork. Roles are assigned on the fly- but heals, buffs and aggro is not so massively overpowered and easy like in other games, so everyone has to do their part. This increases the intensity and the difficulty. When I was tanking in traditional MMOs, I would have a disgruntled healer (who was always told to STUF if he didn't do a good job) while I spammed my Taunt rotation. It was the most nonsensical repetitive nonsense. completely dumb AI, endless encounters with little variation.
People would tell you how to play, drama, don't play with pugs, cry more n00b, and so on. It was just a bad experience.

In GW2 people are generally really cool because everyone has different means to help one another. rangers can use melee weapons if they want to (but with a twist), warriors can used ranged weapons (with a twist) - everyone can do unusual things, heal, buff, deflect, DoT, debuff, stack, rally and so on, in unusual ways, and this leaves for more freedom and less shitty people telling other people how to play.

Due to the nature of dungeons being able to be cleared by any combination of players (like a dungeon of 5 warriors) or without anyone specced for healing, the game has to rely on enemies dealing high damage. It's different from all other MMOs, but it really is more stimulating.

I see the negativity in this thread, and I acknowledge it, because it took me a good 10-dungeons in the beginning were I hated it too. Because it was difficult. the story dungeons were, particularly in the first year, poorly balanced (difficulty wise) and the rewards were not good. Thankfully a lot of good changes have been made to them, and they are a lot of fun now.

I like the dungeons in GW2 because they reward high skill level, they reward teamwork for people who really want to teamwork- and they reward experimentation. Like when I run as a shout warrior, healing my allies, removing their conditions as I use a buff them with speed buffs with my warhorn, and add AoE fire damage with my longbow.

In other MMORPGs I would have been ineffective, got some racist comment, get told to kill myself and go away. Really my favorite part of GW2 is the nice people. IGN has a good article on why players in GW2 are much less hostile (generally) than in many other MMOs; http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/05/the-heroic-habits-of-guild-wars-2


Trinity is just bad. GW2 doesn't fix it, but there is no going back to that. Not for me at least.

 

[Morokh]

By the way, is the GAF guild still together?

The NA one yes.

 

[TheYanger]

It is a lot of fun. The problem with Dungeons in GW2 is that they give a bad impression because they are difficult and ask more of the player than what many are used to. There is no anywhere near the same dependency and reliance on movement, dodging real-time combat and twitch-skill, while at the same time navigating the tab-targetting encounters.

I've met countless people who came back later to the game, and they almost always say the same thing- "I was just turned off the game because it was so different from what I expected".


Dungeons in GW2 are not perfect. Not by a long shot, but there are some really cool ideas, and they get my heart racing a lot more than any dungeon I have ever played in WoW, SWTOR and so on.

It's also a misunderstanding that there are no teamwork. Lots of teamwork. Roles are assigned on the fly- but heals, buffs and aggro is not so massively overpowered and easy like in other games, so everyone has to do their part. This increases the intensity and the difficulty. When I was tanking in traditional MMOs, I would have a disgruntled healer (who was always told to STUF if he didn't do a good job) while I spammed my Taunt rotation. It was the most nonsensical repetitive nonsense. completely dumb AI, endless encounters with little variation.
People would tell you how to play, drama, don't play with pugs, cry more n00b, and so on. It was just a bad experience.

In GW2 people are generally really cool because everyone has different means to help one another. rangers can use melee weapons if they want to (but with a twist), warriors can used ranged weapons (with a twist) - everyone can do unusual things, heal, buff, deflect, DoT, debuff, stack, rally and so on, in unusual ways, and this leaves for more freedom and less shitty people telling other people how to play.

Due to the nature of dungeons being able to be cleared by any combination of players (like a dungeon of 5 warriors) or without anyone specced for healing, the game has to rely on enemies dealing high damage. It's different from all other MMOs, but it really is more stimulating.

I see the negativity in this thread, and I acknowledge it, because it took me a good 10-dungeons in the beginning were I hated it too. Because it was difficult. the story dungeons were, particularly in the first year, poorly balanced (difficulty wise) and the rewards were not good. Thankfully a lot of good changes have been made to them, and they are a lot of fun now.

I like the dungeons in GW2 because they reward high skill level, they reward teamwork for people who really want to teamwork- and they reward experimentation. Like when I run as a shout warrior, healing my allies, removing their conditions as I use a buff them with speed buffs with my warhorn, and add AoE fire damage with my longbow.

In other MMORPGs I would have been ineffective, got some racist comment, get told to kill myself and go away. Really my favorite part of GW2 is the nice people. IGN has a good article on why players in GW2 are much less hostile (generally) than in many other MMOs; http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/05/the-heroic-habits-of-guild-wars-2


Trinity is just bad. GW2 doesn't fix it, but there is no going back to that. Not for me at least.

This post smacks of the shit people were trying to convince everyone of when GW2 came out, before they actually did dungeons and saw how bad they were. No offense, but most of what you're saying about trinity systems is blatantly false. It's extremely patronizing to act like everyone here who played GW2 and hated the dungeons simply didn't 'get' how to use teamwork, or that somehow concepts like healing and aggro trivialize content in other games. The reality is that it's difficult to make an engaging encounter in the guild wars setup. There is no part of GW combat that you can't re-enact in wow or final fantasy or wildstar or whatever else - all of those same systems exist, but there is sure as hell a lot that you're limited on when you can't effectively do all of the things those other games do.

 

[Seiniyta]

It is a lot of fun. The problem with Dungeons in GW2 is that they give a bad impression because they are difficult and ask more of the player than what many are used to. There is no anywhere near the same dependency and reliance on movement, dodging real-time combat and twitch-skill, while at the same time navigating the tab-targetting encounters.

I've met countless people who came back later to the game, and they almost always say the same thing- "I was just turned off the game because it was so different from what I expected".


Dungeons in GW2 are not perfect. Not by a long shot, but there are some really cool ideas, and they get my heart racing a lot more than any dungeon I have ever played in WoW, SWTOR and so on.

It's also a misunderstanding that there are no teamwork. Lots of teamwork. Roles are assigned on the fly- but heals, buffs and aggro is not so massively overpowered and easy like in other games, so everyone has to do their part. This increases the intensity and the difficulty. When I was tanking in traditional MMOs, I would have a disgruntled healer (who was always told to STUF if he didn't do a good job) while I spammed my Taunt rotation. It was the most nonsensical repetitive nonsense. completely dumb AI, endless encounters with little variation.
People would tell you how to play, drama, don't play with pugs, cry more n00b, and so on. It was just a bad experience.

In GW2 people are generally really cool because everyone has different means to help one another. rangers can use melee weapons if they want to (but with a twist), warriors can used ranged weapons (with a twist) - everyone can do unusual things, heal, buff, deflect, DoT, debuff, stack, rally and so on, in unusual ways, and this leaves for more freedom and less shitty people telling other people how to play.

Due to the nature of dungeons being able to be cleared by any combination of players (like a dungeon of 5 warriors) or without anyone specced for healing, the game has to rely on enemies dealing high damage. It's different from all other MMOs, but it really is more stimulating.

I see the negativity in this thread, and I acknowledge it, because it took me a good 10-dungeons in the beginning were I hated it too. Because it was difficult. the story dungeons were, particularly in the first year, poorly balanced (difficulty wise) and the rewards were not good. Thankfully a lot of good changes have been made to them, and they are a lot of fun now.

I like the dungeons in GW2 because they reward high skill level, they reward teamwork for people who really want to teamwork- and they reward experimentation. Like when I run as a shout warrior, healing my allies, removing their conditions as I use a buff them with speed buffs with my warhorn, and add AoE fire damage with my longbow.

In other MMORPGs I would have been ineffective, got some racist comment, get told to kill myself and go away. Really my favorite part of GW2 is the nice people. IGN has a good article on why players in GW2 are much less hostile (generally) than in many other MMOs; http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/05/the-heroic-habits-of-guild-wars-2


Trinity is just bad. GW2 doesn't fix it, but there is no going back to that. Not for me at least.

Trinity isn't bad. There is a reason why rpg's/mmo's ended up having a trinity. Because it's a system that works. There are always less healers and tanks then dps because healers and tanks have more responsibility in most games. Most people don't want to have the pressure.

The trinity is not perfect no, but it's still a system I prefer WAAAAY more then Guild Wars 2 where it's an absolute mess for new players and mmo veterans that hadn't played guild wars before.
And a trinity ended up happening in guild wars 2. With the only difference being that the game didn't predefine the roles of the class/specialization etc and made it much harder on people. It's awful.
Before they 'fixed' the first leveling dungeon, it was as an absolute disaster. It put me off doing dungeons for years before I tried them again. It was that bad.

 

[TheYanger]

Trinity isn't bad. There is a reason why rpg's/mmo's ended up having a trinity. Because it's a system that works. There are always less healers and tanks then dps because healers and tanks have more responsibility in most games. Most people don't want to have the pressure.

The trinity is not perfect no, but it's still a system I prefer WAAAAY more then Guild Wars 2 where it's an absolute mess for new players and mmo veterans that hadn't played guild wars beforeQ.

And a trinity ended up happening in guild wars 2. Wiht the only difference being that the game didn't predefine the roles of the class/specialization etc and made it much harder on people. It's awful.

Before they 'fixed' the first leveling dungeon, it was as an absolute disaster. It put me off doing dungeons for years before I tried them again. It was that bad.

You mean you didn't love the advanced guild wars 2™ tactic of everyone throwing fucking rocks at them to knock them down over and over?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

This post smacks of the shit people were trying to convince everyone of when GW2 came out, before they actually did dungeons and saw how bad they were. No offense, but most of what you're saying about trinity systems is blatantly false. It's extremely patronizing to act like everyone here who played GW2 and hated the dungeons simply didn't 'get' how to use teamwork, or that somehow concepts like healing and aggro trivialize content in other games. The reality is that it's difficult to make an engaging encounter in the guild wars setup.

Well - It does. Everything I said is true. The fact that you think it is patronizing is not really telling, when you, specifically have a history of shit posting in GW2 threads. It's getting old.
Lots of people hate the draconian trinity. Don't try to push a narrative that there is something wrong with GW2s dungeon because it is different.

 

[pelican]

After a break I'm back playing GW2 daily - especially WvW.

Great game.

 

[Dec]

Well - It does. Everything I said is true. The fact that you think it is patronizing is not really telling, when you, specifically have a history of shit posting in GW2 threads. It's getting old.
Lots of people hate the draconian trinity. Don't try to push a narrative that there is something wrong with GW2s dungeon because it is different.

GW2 threads are shit posting from all angles. Fans of GW2 are some of the biggest of the shit posters.

 

[TheYanger]

Well - It does. Everything I said is true. The fact that you think it is patronizing is not really telling, when you, specifically have a history of shit posting in GW2 threads. It's getting old.
Lots of people hate the draconian trinity. Don't try to push a narrative that there is something wrong with GW2s dungeon because it is different.

Lots of people hate lots of things, it doesn't make anything else you said true.

The fact that you call it 'draconian' like it's some kind of fascist leader that exists solely to prevent you from playing some random snowflake character is pretty telling. If you don't like tanking in other games, don't play a tank. Seems simple.

Again, there is not a single thing you can do WITHOUT a trinity that you can't also do with one, but the opposite is not true. It is a more restrictive design and it falls short when it comes to things like raids and dungeons. GW2 has a lot to like about it, it always did, but focusing on the one aspect that was always awful seems like a misstep - not because I wouldn't like it if they did better, but because unless they can prove all of the detractors wrong somehow I think we're all pretty sure that it's not actually possible to make the system they have work in that environment in any fun way.

 

[Rogan]

After a break I'm back playing GW2 daily - especially WvW.

Great game.

WvW is unique and great fun.

 

[ZenaxPure]

The reality is that it's difficult to make an engaging encounter in the guild wars setup.

It would help if they tried to give bosses mechanics for starters. I mean having a dodge roll and not having the trinity severally limits what you can do in terms of mechanics but they didn't even try to make engaging encounter design within their own systems. Most everything is just tank and spank without the tank. Really not fun.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Trinity isn't bad. There is a reason why rpg's/mmo's ended up having a trinity. Because it's a system that works. There are always less healers and tanks then dps because healers and tanks have more responsibility in most games. Most people don't want to have the pressure.

The trinity is not perfect no, but it's still a system I prefer WAAAAY more then Guild Wars 2 where it's an absolute mess for new players and mmo veterans that hadn't played guild wars before.
And a trinity ended up happening in guild wars 2. With the only difference being that the game didn't predefine the roles of the class/specialization etc and made it much harder on people. It's awful.
Before they 'fixed' the first leveling dungeon, it was as an absolute disaster. It put me off doing dungeons for years before I tried them again. It was that bad.

You're basically saying my own sentiments, about that the dungeons give a bad impression because they are harder and lead to frustration, but is the fault of learning curve, not the content in and of itself, which is much more exciting and meaningful that the aggro bullshit that is a relic from 20-year old games.

It's not a convincing argument to shit on design because it's difficult. Learning curve and the frustration that comes from that is a separate issue from meaningful encounters. It's something they got a lot better with now, that they rebalanaced many dungeons, fixed rewards and re-did bosses.

Lots of people hate lots of things, it doesn't make anything else you said true.

The fact that you call it 'draconian' like it's some kind of fascist leader that exists solely to prevent you from playing some random snowflake character is pretty telling. If you don't like tanking in other games, don't play a tank. Seems simple.

Again, there is not a single thing you can do WITHOUT a trinity that you can't also do with one, but the opposite is not true. It is a more restrictive design and it falls short when it comes to things like raids and dungeons. GW2 has a lot to like about it, it always did, but focusing on the one aspect that was always awful seems like a misstep - not because I wouldn't like it if they did better, but because unless they can prove all of the detractors wrong somehow I think we're all pretty sure that it's not actually possible to make the system they have work in that environment in any fun way.

So you're calling me a facist because I called trinity gameplay draconian? What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[Ashodin]

I find it funny when people only comment on dungeons in GW2 as if it was the only content in the game at all.

 

[TheYanger]

So you're calling me a facist because I called trinity gameplay draconian? What the fuck is wrong with you?

That's not at all what I said.

I find it funny when people only comment on dungeons in GW2 as if it was the only content in the game at all.

Dont' think anyone said that, but seeing as they're mentioning raids and raids are traditionally just big dungeons, that seems a relevant topic.

 

[Queen of Hunting]

GW2 threads are shit posting from all angles. Fans of GW2 are some of the biggest of the shit posters.

Something i agree with you on lol

 

[Gnome]

Hate the game, hate any game that matches your character level downward when you're in a lower level area. What if I just want to explore and run around without having to deal with fucking combat?

 

[KKRT00]

Wow.
Its pretty much the best theme park mmo out there, really surprised they went with f2p model.

If You havent played it, play it! It is awesome.

----

Hate the game, hate any game that matches your character level downward when you're in a lower level area. What if I just want to explore and run around without having to deal with fucking combat?

Imagine that You want play with Your friend that is just starting, in this game You can and You will actually gain normal XP and items doing that.

If You want explore without dealing with combat play Thief.

 

[hamchan]

I got bored during the levelling process and stopped but the game seems well liked by others. Seems like a good move to go F2P since the game was already so cheap.

 

[Seiniyta]

You're basically saying my own sentiments, about that the dungeons give a bad impression because they are harder and lead to frustration, but is the fault of learning curve, not the content in and of itself, which is much more exciting and meaningful that the aggro bullshit that is a relic from 20-year old games.

It's not a convincing argument to shit on design because it's difficult. Learning curve and the frustration that comes from that is a separate issue from meaningful encounters. It's something they got a lot better with now, that they rebalanaced many dungeons, fixed rewards and re-did bosses.

I don't have issues with difficulity. I played Wildstar. those dungeons, the leveling dungeons were pretty fucking hard. My issue is that it's frustrating and simply not fun. The dungeons themselves were very poorly designed. I love GW2. But the dungeons are probably one of the worst in any mmo I've played.

Mind you, after I revisited them years after my initial try was a turnoff, it still wasn't great. It was went fast since everyone is speedrunning them nowadays. But there are no encounters that really stuck with me. At best they were 'meh' and worst I just wanted to remove the game from my hard drive.

The content itself was deeply flawed. They have to be doing some big changes for raids to work. I'm skeptical.

 

[Skelter]

If You want explore without dealing with combat play Thief.

To explore I have to play a class/hero that isn't my main?

Sounds really stupid.

 

[Gnome]

Wow.
Its pretty much the best theme park mmo out there, really surprised they went with f2p model.

If You havent played it, play it! It is awesome.

----

Imagine that You want play with Your friend that is just starting, in this game You can and You will actually gain normal XP and items doing that.

If You want explore without dealing with combat play Thief.

It's bad design. People want to see numbers go up, never down, NEVER. It's the reason shit games like cookie clicker work.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

So what happens to those of us who bought the game..?

They've got our money, why should they care! We'll get a dye pack and maybe a limited 5% discount on Gems from the Gem Store if we're lucky.

 

[Psyren]

Hate the game, hate any game that matches your character level downward when you're in a lower level area. What if I just want to explore and run around without having to deal with fucking combat?

If you're decently geared, even when scaled down you're able to trivialize the area content.

Wow.
Its pretty much the best theme park mmo out there, really surprised they went with f2p model.

If You havent played it, play it! It is awesome.

----

Imagine that You want play with Your friend that is just starting, in this game You can and You will actually gain normal XP and items doing that.

If You want explore without dealing with combat play Thief.

And that was my favorite thing about leveling in GW2. Me and my friends could start a new toon at anytime, and we would be able to jump in and run with them and level our alts in the process.

Right now i've got this exact issue with Skyforge, a game that could actually use level scaling because i can't run any content with my friends just because i started a few weeks before them, and you're not able to make alt characters...

It's bad design. People want to see numbers go up, never down, NEVER. It's the reason shit games like cookie clicker work.

That's a subjective opinion. The scaling in GW2 did what it needed to. Allowed people to play together in new areas, and not make it feel like a waste of time for higher level toons running around in low-level areas because your drops were level appropriate regardless of area level...

 

[Morokh]

I got bored during the levelling process and stopped but the game seems well liked by others. Seems like a good move to go F2P since the game was already so cheap.

I don't know exactly what your issue was with the leveling process, but I see this brought often on threads about the game and usually people are missing a few things.

Being used to quests in pretty much every RPG out there, some people only focus on hearts and just jump from one another without doing anything else.
Thing is, stuff like events, gathering, and just map exploring are as much important if not more than hearts for gaining XP, and for the variety of things you can do if you level only in PVE.

Your mileage may vary depending on how populated maps are, if they're packed, events will pop more often, but also might end up being a bit confusing, if the map isn't very populated, less events will spawn or be activated, and you might miss a lot of them.

Map population has already been somewhat adressed in the past with the implementation of Megaservers, and they will improve that further when the expansion adds a map reward system for completing events for max level characters as a semi-reliable way to farm rare crafting components.

Many people also focus only on PVE, and forget that you can spice things up with PvP and WwW and actually level-up in those game types as well.
I'll completely agree with someone saying that PvP isn't their thing, not being particularly PvP focused myself, but I dabble in those game modes from time to time and it's very fun, so my advice will always be 'Try it'.

The content itself was deeply flawed. They have to be doing some big changes for raids to work. I'm skeptical.

While it might not be exactly what you mean, they made a huge change to traits recently, and a big change to how conditions work making them finally viable in PVE if not as good as power based builds.

Also, the new class (Revenant), and some of the Elite specialisations (New trait-lines that also alter the gameplay of each class) introduce some more specialized role types, like Healing, or full support.

That's at least a start.

One of the big issues of the game so far is that while the classes could do a wide variety of things, encounters weren't very good at leveraging what classes could do besides damage, if Raids adress that they will have made a huge step forward.

 

[KKRT00]

To explore I have to play a class/hero that isn't my main?

Sounds really stupid.

Welcome to MMOs?

---

It's bad design. People want to see numbers go up, never down, NEVER. It's the reason shit games like cookie clicker work.

Its great design, unless You play alone, but thats not why MMOs were created.

 

[Rogan]

To explore I have to play a class/hero that isn't my main?

Sounds really stupid.

You can explore with every class / hero. Its the same as WoW and every MMO.

Not sure why its stupid.

 

[Gnome]

Welcome to MMOs?

---

Its great design, unless You play alone, but thats not why MMOs were created.

Great design would be the option to scale given the situation. If I'm just running around to do extras I usually want to do it alone at my own speed. Grouping is only really best when playing in a situation that can't be overcome outside teamwork.

Guild Wars instead went for some bullshit middle ground.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I don't have issues with difficulity. I played Wildstar. those dungeons, the leveling dungeons were pretty fucking hard. My issue is that it's frustrating and simply not fun. The dungeons themselves were very poorly designed. I love GW2. But the dungeons are probably one of the worst in any mmo I've played.

Mind you, after I revisited them years after my initial try was a turnoff, it still wasn't great. It was went fast since everyone is speedrunning them nowadays. But there are no encounters that really stuck with me. At best they were 'meh' and worst I just wanted to remove the game from my hard drive.

The content itself was deeply flawed. They have to be doing some big changes for raids to work. I'm skeptical.

I think the design is really good, and that the existing trinity-model is bad (aggro, forced roles, segregated community, drama, less creativity and room to overcome the encounters by making the class what you want it to be, having mechanics like taunt which pigeon shoe you into simple and repetitive rotations).

The bad things I have to say about GW2s dungeons really are related things like learning curve, poor explanations, bad difficulty spikes, but I don't think this means that the design and encounters are bad. I can build my character in many different ways. My warrior can be melee dps, ranged dps, AOE, farming, condi cleanser, might stacker, shout healer, banner buffer, signet warrior, sustain and a host of other things-

It's a much more open design and one that allows for experimentation AS, at the same time, you're using your own hand coordination and ability to dodge, and navigate around the map, to win. Which to me is a hell of a lot more engaging and meaningful, than standing in a dungeon and healing, and watching bars go up and down.

To me they are much more meaningful than anything I ever tried in the games I played before- EQ, DAOC, WoW, SWTOR and so on. I think the combat carries it and a player can make a lot of it, by deciding how to play.

I do agree with some of the other posters, that GW1 had better dungeons (or rather missions). It had a hyper aggressive A.I that challenged you in a way that no hotkey based MMO ever has. It was really awesome. Its my hope that they work they are doing on the AI in the expansion will bring improvements in this area.

 

[Syril]

Great design would be the option to scale given the situation. If I'm just running around to do extras I usually want to do it alone at my own speed. Grouping is only really best when playing in a situation that can't be overcome outside teamwork.

Guild Wars instead went for some bullshit middle ground.

If you could choose not to scale yourself down then it would open the possibility for griefing by allowing high-level players to swoop in and one-shot the targets of events.

 

[dimasok]

Probably a response to the horrible debacle that is the expansion pack for the game which I didn't buy and don't intend to buy.

 

[Windforce]

I hope this doesn't come across as port begging, but this game would be awesome on consoles. Can PS4 run it well? Did devs hint at this, ever?

 

[KiteGr]

I hope this doesn't come across as port begging, but this game would be awesome on consoles. Can PS4 run it well? Did devs hint at this, ever?

I'm a bit speptic about running MMOs on consoles ever since we tried to co-ordinate for an instance when I was playing DC Universe (that mmo sucks btw). Not having a keyboard to type fast and on the spot is very crippling on end game content!

 

[Retro]

By the way, is the GAF guild still together?

Yep, same leaders and everything (more officers though), it's been about a month since we had to clear out inactive players but I think we're back in the 450 account range again. Gonna need to tidy up a bit before the expansion hits, but when it does they're adding cross-guild chat so even if we have to use the "Overflow" guild like we did at launch (where we had ~750 accounts) people can still communicate.

Seems like a good move to go F2P since the game was already so cheap.

Just to clarify; IGN's tweet said "you can play the core game for free." We don't know if that's the whole core game (i.e. entirely F2P) or if it's a situation like World of Warcraft where you can only play to level 20 and there are lots of restrictions on what you can and cannot do. It's worth noting that almost a year ago, they datamined a lot of info about a free trial (can be read here) which points towards the latter.

That's kind of why this leak is annoying; there's almost no information besides the words "free" and "raid", but people are still using it to jump to all sorts of conclusions.

I hope this doesn't come across as port begging, but this game would be awesome on consoles. Can PS4 run it well? Did devs hint at this, ever?

It's been a while since it's come up, here's the latest article I could find about it from two years ago. It seems to be cost-prohibitive considering how often ArenaNet updates their game (every two weeks during the Living Story).

 

[Psyren]

I hope this doesn't come across as port begging, but this game would be awesome on consoles. Can PS4 run it well? Did devs hint at this, ever?

I can only imagine what the framerate would be while fighting Jormag xD

But in all seriousness though, GW2 wouldn't really translate well over to console imo, not without a complete rework of the user interface.

 

[ApharmdX]

Hopefully this brings in a big influx of new players.

So, reading through the thread, some interesting takes on Guild Wars 2. I'll add mine:

-The leveling experience crushes any other MMO. There's so many options as to how to get your experience that it doesn't feel as repetitive.
-World PvE events are better in GW2 than in other MMOs.
-Exploration! It's amazing and a lost part of the genre.
-The core gameplay of dodging, the use of abilities, it's on-point. There's no lag (SWTOR! FFXIV!) and the game is fast enough (FFXIV for most of your levels is slow!).
-The artwork and music is tremendously well done. The graphics aren't as good as say XIV but the art is as good or better. Enemies are unique and original, especially for people who never played Guild Wars 1.
-The community is nicer compared to WoW or FFXIV. There's not a lot of competition for resources so the amount of awful human beings is lower.
-The progression curve is perfect. It's not grindy. At least when I last played, 25% of effort got you 95% of your performance. That last 5% performance cost 75% of effort. And that's a good thing for more casual players.

However:
-Removal of the trinity means that players are responsible for themselves. It's thrilling but one bad player can cock the whole thing up.
-UI is pretty mediocre.
-The learning curve is steep and some mechanics are not well explained in-game.
-There's not a lot of room for mistakes. Enemies have a lot of cheap shot moves, to be honest.

After Guild Wars 2 launched, it pretty much immediately killed World of Warcraft for me. The gameplay had some major advancements and WoW just felt old. However, on the "persistent" part of the MMO formula, and at endgame, GW2 couldn't sustain me, so I ended up going back to WoW and then FFXIV.

It's bad design. People want to see numbers go up, never down, NEVER. It's the reason shit games like cookie clicker work.

No, it's smart design. It's awesome that you can immediately jump in to play with friends at any (lower) level. You can hit max level just staying around the capitol cities, or you can level in your favorite areas without having to worry about some static progression hand-holding.

GW2 breaks a lot of the bad, grindy, unnecessary MMO conventions. And that's a good thing.

This post smacks of the shit people were trying to convince everyone of when GW2 came out, before they actually did dungeons and saw how bad they were. No offense, but most of what you're saying about trinity systems is blatantly false. It's extremely patronizing to act like everyone here who played GW2 and hated the dungeons simply didn't 'get' how to use teamwork, or that somehow concepts like healing and aggro trivialize content in other games. The reality is that it's difficult to make an engaging encounter in the guild wars setup. There is no part of GW combat that you can't re-enact in wow or final fantasy or wildstar or whatever else - all of those same systems exist, but there is sure as hell a lot that you're limited on when you can't effectively do all of the things those other games do.

Eh WoW and FFXIV's mechanics as they are now can't duplicate GW2's combat. These are games that are balanced around tanks being able to mitigate tons of damage. When you get rid of that, and rid of big heals/shields bailing players out, it's a much more high risk/high reward style of play.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Hate the game, hate any game that matches your character level downward when you're in a lower level area. What if I just want to explore and run around without having to deal with fucking combat?

I actually love the scaling that GW2 does. It's brilliant, going to low level areas aren't cake walks, and you can party with anyone. One of the things I hate about FFXIV is that its world is as tame as a 6 year old's birthday party. It's very boring.

 

[Rawk Hawk]

I actually love the scaling that GW2 does. It's brilliant, going to low level areas aren't cake walks, and you can party with anyone. One of the things I hate about FFXIV is that it's world is as tame as a 6 year old's birthday party. It's very boring.

Agreed, one of the big things I liked about FFXI back in the day, roaming the world is slightly dangerous and therefor gives a good feeling of accomplishment just getting where you need to be.

 

[Retro]

-Removal of the trinity means that players are responsible for themselves. It's thrilling but one bad player can cock the whole thing up.

I agree with most of your post (I do kinda like the minimalist UI though), but for this point I've found the opposite. In the majority of the MMOs I've played (I don't want to say "all of them" because there's so many I'm sure I'm forgetting a few) if someone screws up it's usually a wipe because there's no one left to fill that role (and with enrage timers, even losing enough DPS can lead to a wipe).

Because of the way GW2 is built, if someone dies the other players can adjust their playstyle (swap weapons / change attunement or tools, etc.) and compensate for the loss of a player (or two, or three...). With the downed state and the ability for all players to revive each other in combat (not to mention clutch abilities like Warbanner) you can also get a downed player back in action pretty quickly.

I've yet to run into a Guild Wars 2 group where one or two people will die and someone says "Just wipe" so the group can try again faster; more often the downed players cheer you on to beat the boss without them. Anecdotal evidence perhaps, but that's been my experience thus far.

I actually love the scaling that GW2 does. It's brilliant, going to low level areas aren't cake walks, and you can party with anyone. One of the things I hate about FFXIV is that it's world is as tame as a 6 year old's birthday party. It's very boring.

Just to chime in on the whole "Downscaling" conversation; downscaling ensures that all content, even content you've out-leveled, remains relevant. You can go to another race's starting areas and get a taste for their storyline / lore and experience it as it was meant to be while still receiving rewards relevant to your level.

Also worth adding that once Heart of Thorns hits, the new Map Bonus system will also allow you to seek out specific rewards (mostly crafting materials, but also stuff like dyes or junk items worth a nice chunk of money), and since it's on a rotation and only rewards you for completing events, you're always going to new zones and doing new things instead of staying in one spot and grinding mindlessly.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I hope this doesn't come across as port begging, but this game would be awesome on consoles. Can PS4 run it well? Did devs hint at this, ever?

I have the game, and I would like it to show up on consoles. A lot of PC games like these could show up on consoles. GW2 really needs official controller support, it feels so right with a controller. Marvel Heroes, Skyforge, Path of Exile, Tera, Blade and Soul, Neverwinter, Diablo 3... oh.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Im not wild about this at all.

Ive been playing GW since launch (I'm taking a break now to play other games though) and Ive played through most of the games content (still have not beaten triple worm!). I paid full price for the game and now someone can just come in and have access to all of the game now for no cost? So essentially unless I buy the expansion (which i am but thats not the point here) I am on the same level as a f2p person? I really don't care for the way that sounds. Its not like there is some monthly fee they can use to "give" stuff away to full time people. Unless they get way less storage, one character spot, etc which must be unlocked with gems which is what I assume they will be doing but what about the rest of use who have have kind of had our purchase devalued? I know it shouldn't really matter as nothing has really changed on my end but the fact is that it "feels" like it has changed.

I assume I have missed some key detail here in the thread.

 

[JinnAxel]

The problem with PvE in gw2 is that it doesn't actually really take advantage of the entirety of the combat system. Both PvP and WvW is much closer in utilizing the most some classes have to offer in different situations and really edges closer to classic trinity without the issues that the trinity actually has (notably pigeon-holeing roles).

Some classes excel in pumping out boons for the entire party, others excel at providing healing aoes that the recipients need to combo finish to gain real benefits from.

It's the reason why PvP and WvW doesn't have everyone running full DPS gear, because it just doesn't work. You need to have some classes be tanky and soak up damage as well as being a nuisance to the point where they can't really be ignored, effectively acting as a tank. And you need classes that can put down healing fields so that the rest of your team can sustain. But neither of these classes are only capable of those individual things. The tanky class can usually provide a lot of boons, and the healing class can usually pump out a lot of dps.

PvE was just designed poorly and wasn't able to reflect what the game was truly capable of because of how much tank and spank the bosses have become, both in and out of dungeons. Yes some bosses are more involved, but it usually just comes down to recognizing tells so that you can dodge all the damage.

Im not wild about this at all.

Ive been playing GW since launch (I'm taking a break now to play other games though) and Ive played through most of the games content (still have not beaten triple worm!). I paid full price for the game and now someone can just come in and have access to all of the game now for no cost? So essentially unless I buy the expansion (which i am but thats not the point here) I am on the same level as a f2p person? I really don't care for the way that sounds. Its not like there is some monthly fee they can use to "give" stuff away to full time people. Unless they get way less storage, one character spot, etc which must be unlocked with gems which is what I assume they will be doing but what about the rest of use who have have kind of had our purchase devalued? I know it shouldn't really matter as nothing has really changed on my end but the fact is that it "feels" like it has changed.

I assume I have missed some key detail here in the thread.

Yeah no details have been given. It could be a trial account or something. But the logic that you who had to pay full prices while new players get it for free is ignoring the fact that you had the opportunity to play for 3 years. The concept isn't new. WoW made a lot of expansions part of the core game as new expansions come out. It just doesn't make sense for players to have to pay multiple times as more expansions come out. GW1 was unique in the sense that you're really paying for new nearly standalone campaigns.

 

[explodet]

I'm just doing a drive by post to state that Dry Top sucks.

 

[Retro]

I assume I have missed some key detail here in the thread.

Other than the phrase "you can play the core game for free" there's zero info to go on. We don't know if it's full F2P where the base game is completely available to players for free or if it's going to be a free Trial where non-paying players have all sorts of restrictions. Data-miners found some info in the game (seen here) that would suggest it's more of a Trial version, but that was last year.

The IGN tweet that everyone's basing this discussion on wasn't supposed to go out until after the announcement at PAX on Saturday, so we'll have to wait until then to find out.

 

[Pejo]

Raids without the trinity sound... rough. Not really sure how they'll handle it, if it's just dungeons with more players then NOPE.

So my whole hope entering this thread is that they finally caved in and built out the trinity system, but it sounds like they sure haven't. I loved what I played of GW2, but the dungeons were the least fun I've ever had in an MMO, and that's usually what keeps me hooked on a game. What a shame.

 

[Rad-]

GW2 was such a disappointment after GW1. I don't mean the game was bad as it was still good but it just didn't have a lot of the good stuff that GW1 started. No HoH in GW2 for example is one of the worst missing features for a sequel in gaming history.

 

[Skelter]

So my whole hope entering this thread is that they finally caved in and built out the trinity system, but it sounds like they sure haven't. I loved what I played of GW2, but the dungeons were the least fun I've ever had in an MMO, and that's usually what keeps me hooked on a game. What a shame.

It's not GW2. It's you. You clearly don't know how adjust to the fights or know the proper way of fighting bosses in PvE content. /s

It's ridiculous that someone actually believes that. If the dungeons were actually fun for more people that would be different but people are complaining because they aren't fun, well designed, or feel as well done as the WvWvW. It feels like something added to the game in the last minute. I don't see raids being any better.

 

[Lady Bird]

The 2-3 years old idea that people have of GW2's PvE is likely to be quite different than what PvE will likely be in GW2's expansion.

Boss design has been a lot better in recent patches, although that is only noticeable in open world and story instances yet.

The AI system is going to be revamped, and that is/ was the #1 problem for why the no-trinity gameplay was not working before.

The defiance system that exists in boss encounters to prevent stun-locks is getting revamped, in order to make CC and control roles more useful.

The new elite specialization system for each profession is going to strengthen individual roles and themes (still not going back to the rigid trinity system, however).

I have no idea how raids will end up being, but I wouldn't use 3-years old content as a way to judge the future of GW2.

I want to quote my last post. It's still the best reply for a lot of people's doubts here, but it seems it was kind of ignored.

I also want to add that recent boss fights are waaaaay more fun than anything the old dungeons throw at you. Unfortunately, first impressions matter a lot and Anet's temporary content philosophy for the first two years didn't help either.

Nonetheless, their former dungeon designer no longer works at Anet, their boss encounters have improved immensly over the years, they hired new people specifically for raid design and they are commited at fixing the biggest flaws with their PvE's challenging content (interesting mechanics, revamped AI, clearer and more focused party roles, more interactive and strategical anti-cc boss mechanics, etc).

I have no idea how it will eventually turn out, but I wouldn't use 3 years old content to judge the future.

 

[Zeroth]

I want to quote my last post. It's still the best reply for a lot of people's doubts here, but it seems it was kind of ignored.

I also want to add that recent boss fights are waaaaay more fun than anything the old dungeons throw at you. Unfortunately, first impressions matter a lot and Anet's temporary content philosophy for the first two years didn't help either.

Nonetheless, their former dungeon designer no longer works at Anet, their boss encounters have improved immensly over the years, they hired new people specifically for raid design and they are commited at fixing the biggest flaws with their PvE's challenging content (interesting mechanics, revamped AI, clearer and more focused party roles, more interactive and strategical anti-cc boss mechanics, etc).

I have no idea how it will eventually turn out, but I wouldn't use 3 years old content to judge the future.

This is a very good point. Dungeons are not being used as a parameter of comparison for raids by most players, even the elite PvE guilds. I think its safe to remain at least skeptic.

 

[Cels]

I want to quote my last post. It's still the best reply for a lot of people's doubts here, but it seems it was kind of ignored.

I also want to add that recent boss fights are waaaaay more fun than anything the old dungeons throw at you. Unfortunately, first impressions matter a lot and Anet's temporary content philosophy for the first two years didn't help either.

Nonetheless, their former dungeon designer no longer works at Anet, their boss encounters have improved immensly over the years, they hired new people specifically for raid design and they are commited at fixing the biggest flaws with their PvE's challenging content (interesting mechanics, revamped AI, clearer and more focused party roles, more interactive and strategical anti-cc boss mechanics, etc).

I have no idea how it will eventually turn out, but I wouldn't use 3 years old content to judge the future.

Have they really learned all that much from Aetherpath? Arenanet essentially said this stuff took a long time to make and it wasn't worth it, so they're not going to make/revamp dungeons like they had originally said they would.

Aetherpath had cool interesting new mechanics when it was introduced, and unique enemies. At the same time it is one of the least popular, if not the least popular, dungeon paths.

My theories on why:
Measly 2g reward and an extremely low chance at a cool skin -> poor time:reward ratio.
Unskippable dialogue/cutscenes

At the very least they could have upped the gold reward. They probably should have considered changing the way skins would be obtained, perhaps tokens or some other more equitable system.

 

[DJIzana]

Did you try Elders Scroll Online, the exploration and the PVP are almost Incidental. The combat is even a shade bit more fun in Elders Scrolls. It also has a lot more voice acting if that was a part you liked too.

I'm glad you enjoy it but the Elder Scrolls Online isn't a game for me. I have never been a fan of Bethesda. I know they are extreeemely popular but for me, I'm just not a fan of the art style or the types of games they make in general. Not a fan of the combat, classes, character models etc...

I will say that if I ever DID try a Bethesda game, Online would be the one I'd go to though! It seems to offer far more unique map design but still... worried about the things I disliked previously and likely won't bother.

I really like FFXI, PSO2 and GW2. Those games offer enough for me to play while waiting for other games to come out and balancing my time with other things as well.