metalslimer
Member
i have a friend whos gay and christian and he said he doesn't like the ruling. i feel very conflicted on how to interpret it
Self hatred is very easy to succumb to when you are indoctrinated from a young age.
i have a friend whos gay and christian and he said he doesn't like the ruling. i feel very conflicted on how to interpret it
Self hatred is very easy to succumb to when you are indoctrinated from a young age.
All Jesus is saying is that it is impossible for someone who loves material, non-spiritual things to be saved by his own power - he will always be too weak to turn from his love of that to love God - but that with God's help it is possible. Jesus is using a humorous exaggeration to drive the point home. This might be the most taken out of context and literally taken scripture of all time. Definitely in the top 10.
Yeah.. I mean.. someone who is a known adulterer is someone who broke the ten commandments. That's part of God's top 10 no-nos. And yet we don't restrict those people to the right to marry based upon belief.
You can still be a Christian and support gay people. It's not like how they live their life has an effect on you.
he's also said i'm homophobic simply because i wouldn't have sex with a guy
It is true. Annulment means the marriage never existed, so a person who marries after an invalid marriage is still doing it for the first time.Eh, not completely true.
he's also said i'm homophobic simply because i wouldn't have sex with a guy
"I cant believe they are judging the actions of people and in turn judging them so let me judge their reaction and in turn judge them"
its a never ending cycle.
And thirdly, why do people have such an issue with that Meme? I mean like someone said I disagree with a number of things a number of my friends do but that doesnt stop me being their friend? No one can tell me they agree with everything that any of their friends or S/O do, it's impossible, we're human and have differences etc.
It is true. Annulment means the marriage never existed, so a person who marries after an invalid marriage is still doing it for the first time.
Seeking out homosexual relationships is, though.
Not all judgment is equal. Outta here with this "tolerance is intolerant" nonsense.
O dont know what to say about this topic or how to post or address it or have my thoughts shared on this topic. As I'm worried any questions I have may offend or I may come off as wrong but I guess if I cant discuss it on GAF where can I?
So my up bringing was heavily influenced by the bible, my dad is pretty famous pastor and to be honest I hated the whole thing (bar one or two things). Having stepped out "Christianity" and quickly realized the church isn't really much different to any other corporations out there... politics, ulterior or misguided motives, the want for status, power etc. and I'm speaking as someone who knows the inner workings of a particular denomination.
I guess the first thing I wanted to know, is I've been bought up to believe that marriage was between and a man and woman, as per says the Bible. I guess what I'm starting to realise is that "marriage" existed before this (providing you believe the world existed before In the beginning") but why such a push for marriage if you already have the same rights through civil partnerships?
What about religions that don't support marriage, are they legally obliged to marry same sex couples? This is a big thing for people I know who are still Christians (as alot of my close friends are) they believe this is a sign of the end of times blah blah blah... while I dont agree with all that jazz I do wonder if they would be forced into doing something that they didnt support?
And thirdly, why do people have such an issue with that Meme? I mean like someone said I disagree with a number of things a number of my friends do but that doesnt stop me being their friend? No one can tell me they agree with everything that any of their friends or S/O do, it's impossible, we're human and have differences etc.
Regardless even though its a bit odd for me seeing same sex marriage (again due to years of being indoctrinated) ... I really am happy for those it will involve, I can see how much it means to people so it can only be a good thing, there is no wrong that can come from love.
O dont know what to say about this topic or how to post or address it or have my thoughts shared on this topic. As I'm worried any questions I have may offend or I may come off as wrong but I guess if I cant discuss it on GAF where can I?
So my up bringing was heavily influenced by the bible, my dad is pretty famous pastor and to be honest I hated the whole thing (bar one or two things). Having stepped out "Christianity" and quickly realized the church isn't really much different to any other corporations out there... politics, ulterior or misguided motives, the want for status, power etc. and I'm speaking as someone who knows the inner workings of a particular denomination.
I guess the first thing I wanted to know, is I've been bought up to believe that marriage was between and a man and woman, as per says the Bible. I guess what I'm starting to realise is that "marriage" existed before this (providing you believe the world existed before In the beginning") but why such a push for marriage if you already have the same rights through civil partnerships?
What about religions that don't support marriage, are they legally obliged to marry same sex couples? This is a big thing for people I know who are still Christians (as alot of my close friends are) they believe this is a sign of the end of times blah blah blah... while I dont agree with all that jazz I do wonder if they would be forced into doing something that they didnt support?
And thirdly, why do people have such an issue with that Meme? I mean like someone said I disagree with a number of things a number of my friends do but that doesnt stop me being their friend? No one can tell me they agree with everything that any of their friends or S/O do, it's impossible, we're human and have differences etc.
Regardless even though its a bit odd for me seeing same sex marriage (again due to years of being indoctrinated) ... I really am happy for those it will involve, I can see how much it means to people so it can only be a good thing, there is no wrong that can come from love.
And thirdly, why do people have such an issue with that Meme? I mean like someone said I disagree with a number of things a number of my friends do but that doesnt stop me being their friend? No one can tell me they agree with everything that any of their friends or S/O do, it's impossible, we're human and have differences etc.
Sounds like people should should be more specific with their language, then, since I see all gay people being lumped together. Many Christians say that being gay is a sin. That would be like saying that liking the taste of a Meat Lover's pizza is a sin; you'd still be "guilty" of such a sin by merely existing, even if you never order one and eat it.Seeking out homosexual relationships is, though.
I get the metaphor, even if the camel translation is kept, and, for the record, I don't find that verse to be ridiculous. It's mostly the Old Testament law that drives me crazy, especially when someone states the Bible must be taken as truth. Nearly the entire book of Leviticus is just...insane in terms of modern society.
It's probably worth discussing this broadly, frankly.
That statement is about as unjudgmental as one can possibly be if you espouse the beliefs that person holds.
One might make the argument that it is not possible to be unjudgmental when you are against something like homosexuality.
Maybe that's true, but I'm not sure, so let's talk about it. As another example, many/most Christians also believe that not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is a mortal sin. Do you feel this is arrogant and judgmental as well?
Maybe it is, but then, we're basically objecting to the entire concept of religion at this point: they believe certain things are true as an article of faith.
Yeah, religious indoctrination can do some weird things to people as they try to merge their understanding of reality with religious mythology.he's also said i'm homophobic simply because i wouldn't have sex with a guy
Well gay people did not have the same rights in many states and no church will be forced to perform a ceremony. If you work in the clerks office yes you will have to hand out licenses to gay people.
It's probably worth discussing this broadly, frankly.
That statement is about as unjudgmental as one can possibly be if you espouse the beliefs that person holds.
One might make the argument that it is not possible to be unjudgmental when you are against something like homosexuality.
Maybe that's true, but I'm not sure, so let's talk about it. As another example, many/most Christians also believe that not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is a mortal sin. Do you feel this is arrogant and judgmental as well?
Maybe it is, but then, we're basically objecting to the entire concept of religion at this point: they believe certain things are true as an article of faith.
I am not a christian but the argument a christian will make is Bible defines what constitutes a marriage, not that both have to be christian to be married
Pretty hard to argue against a false premise.
Good post. This is exactly why religion and state must be separate. Everyone is allowed to believe, think, and speak how they want. It is when these views are then attempted to be forced on to others where issues can arise.
he's also said i'm homophobic simply because i wouldn't have sex with a guy
Do you think it'll stop here, though? I think the majority of the religious opposition can eventually come around on how it exists today but if they begin mandating churches perform ceremonies or risk losing tax exempt status, shit gonna hit the fan.
It's probably worth discussing this broadly, frankly.
That statement is about as unjudgmental as one can possibly be if you espouse the beliefs that person holds.
One might make the argument that it is not possible to be unjudgmental when you are against something like homosexuality.
Maybe that's true, but I'm not sure, so let's talk about it. As another example, many/most Christians also believe that not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is a mortal sin. Do you feel this is arrogant and judgmental as well?
Maybe it is, but then, we're basically objecting to the entire concept of religion at this point: they believe certain things are true as an article of faith.
Why would this ever happen. The government never forced churches to marry atheists.
Christians view it as a true premise. They don't accept your definition, you don't accept their definition of what constitutes a marriage. both of you view your own views in the light of truth and the other as false.
True, but I think, eventually, some churches will. Many religious people also were taught to believe that interracial marriage was a sin. (When I was a kid, a visiting pastor came right out and said just that) Now, there's no issue with having an interracial marriage ceremony in a church, at least as far as I know.
I'm fine with people believing in their religion, but the whole "we are right, you will suffer if you don't join us" attitude that is prevelent in most religions is a turnoff.
Do you think it'll stop here, though? I think the majority of the religious opposition can eventually come around on how it exists today but if they begin mandating churches perform ceremonies or risk losing tax exempt status, shit gonna hit the fan.
This is the other problem with discussion regarding religion; because religion is not inherently rational, hypocrisy and inconsistency are not inherently problematic. It's totally fine to be inconsistent and erratic when you are not bound by logic and reason.
I really don't see why this is a hard thing to understand.
Why is it impossible to think something is morally wrong, but still support the right for someone to do it?
I would think there are a lot of Christian morals that fall under this area, including plenty of the "Ten Commandments", for example profaning God's name, disrespecting your parents, ignoring the Sabbath, committing adultery, coveting, lying, etc.
That's not even getting into things like premarital sex, ignoring the needs of others, or calling your brother a fool.
Why is it impossible to think something is morally wrong, but still support the right for someone to do it?
Sorry but, you're "not sure" that being against homosexuality (and stating such publicly) is somehow not inherently judgemental? Is the argument that a person's beliefs cannot be considered judgemental if the person earnestly believe them or that if you use nice enough words it makes a statement less judgemental?
I really don't see why this is a hard thing to understand.
Why is it impossible to think something is morally wrong, but still support the right for someone to do it?
I would think there are a lot of Christian morals that fall under this area, including plenty of the "Ten Commandments", for example profaning God's name, disrespecting your parents, ignoring the Sabbath, committing adultery, coveting, lying, etc.
That's not even getting into things like premarital sex, ignoring the needs of others, or calling your brother a fool.
That is inherently impossible, given there are known contradictions.Yes, this is definitely a problem for many or most. It's hard to argue that many Christians live by all aspects of the Bible.
The premise is false because the Bible itself does not deny gay marriage, but the laws at be in the governing body did, which is why they could be repealed in the first place. If the Bible had ever defined it, then the law makers would have had to change the word of the Bible, but they didn't have to, the Bible still says what it has always said; yet the law is now changed.
I'm completely with you as I find so many parts of the Bible to be ludicrous, but, as it turns out the "camel through an eye of a needle" text is probably a mistranslation. It should be "rope through an eye of a needle."
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm
Because it's a naive interpretation of what this image is: A way for people to broadcast "you gays are bad and you should feel bad", even after they lost the fight, without looking like assholes.
It's cowardly and petty and the fact that it's being shared around just means there's a lot of cowardice and pettiness out there.
Huh? It's actually quite easy to love and respect someone but not agree with their life choices. You probably do this every day in some capacity with your family and friends.