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[drkOne]

The issue is that Western games have progressed, improved, and massively raised the bar. Japanese games are still the same as they were last gen. Developers are not developing, so to speak. They are just churning out the same stuff.

Please, show me some examples.
I see Halo being Halo… CoD being CoD… Gears of War being Gears of War… God of War being God of War… Where's the that massive progression?

Yet, I look at Japanese developers and you have Kamiya moving from DMC to Bayonetta. Demon's Souls being as original as a new IP can be. You have FFXIII that as much as I may hate as a game, raises the bar on the battle system. Valkyria Chronicles that gave a twist to the SRPG genre. Vanquish is looking to be once again a game that moves a genre forward.
And you have the push that pretty much Japan alone gives to the handheld consoles.

Yes, I do think a lot of people just like to say "Japanese market is stuck in the same place… in like forever", yet, when you look at it, Japanese devs are the ones you want to look at if you're looking for innovation, progression and improvement.
And you could argue, but the Japanese games were always niche titles in the west. All those devs wanting to "westernize" their games just want to make more money. It's not because they think that it's the "right way" to do it.

 

[Firewire]

All will be forgiven November 2nd.

For me at least.

 

[Mr_Appleby]

The issue is that Western games have progressed, improved, and massively raised the bar. Japanese games are still the same as they were last gen. Developers are not developing, so to speak. They are just churning out the same stuff.

i don't believe you can seriously make this claim, so i assume i'm being trolled. the most innovative game last year was japanese imo (demon's souls). and none of this crap about "oh but it's a wrpgaoisdhgfoiasdgf". it's a japanese game made by japanese developers for the asian market. quite the opposite of a lot of japanese games that seem to be targetting the US market, and with detrimental results imo.

Uncharted2 is one of the biggest western developed game of last year, and it offers nothing in the way of innovation, only refinements of graphical & storytelling technique overlaid on a game we've all played before. to me the only bar that game raised was visually, and i've been around long enough to have that particular bar rasied so many times i no longer care.

 

[TheListener]

Strange aesthetics, complicated controls, unforgiving difficulty (requires trial + error memorization over good controls and freedom).

That's why I don't like most Japanese games.

Oh and SAILORS.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

I am truly disappointed in Capcom games this generation. What are your favorite games?

Spoiler

this is an honest question

Honestly I'm not in love with Capcom's output this generation either. But their games do fairly well unless they suck (ie Dark Void). I mean they haven't yet made a contender for game of the generation like they did las gen with RE4 (and some would argue Okami as well). But they've brought out a consistent stream of quality titles and outside of Nintendo they have been the most productive Japanese developer this generation in terms of quality and quantity.

 

[The Technomancer]

Are you kidding me? Most jrpgs just recently phased out random battles around the same time. DQ was no exception.

yes, which is why I blame Squenix. JRPGs have been making strides, but the ones that everyone thinks of are DQ and FF, and we haven't gotten the new DQ yet, and FF is, well...

 

[TheExecutive]

All will be forgiven November 2nd.

For me at least.

LOL, well I think we are talking about style of game and gameplay but yeah... it should be

 

[Rahxephon91]

Well I'd say it's because this gen western games have really just steped it up. Quality and presentation wise. Now I speack as a console gamer and a bit of a newbie ,but looking at my PS2 collection I see few western games. Mostly just Rockstar tiltes. Meanwhile I see games like MGS, FF, and RE. Now this is just my opinion, but I use to feel that Japanese games just had better presentation and care put in them. Stupid maybe but hey that's me. Few western games seemed to really shine in presentation and design. They looked honestly pretty stale and generic. Meanwhile Japanese games looked great on all fronts and seemed unique. I was also an anime fan so I had that bias.

This gen though I've played tons of western games and they are fantastic. Few Japanese games actually reach the presentation of Uncharted, GoW, Gears, Halo, Ubisofts tiltes, and EA's games. These games don't feel cheap which is something i use to feel Western games felt like. Meanwhile Japan has had a hard time keeping up to this level on consoles. Really only MGS and FF have the exclent production values comparable to western HD games. And to me this maters. I enjoy my niche games , but I also enjoy my big gaming events. Japan just hasent brought them.

So that's my belif as to why it seems to be anti Japan this gen. This is just my perspective and it's probsly missing out on the big things.

 

[TheExecutive]

yes, which is why I blame Squenix. JRPGs have been making strides, but the ones that everyone thinks of are DQ and FF, and we haven't gotten the new DQ yet, and FF is, well...

Demon's Souls is a great mix of Japanese brutality and western gameplay. I think too many people forget that the best RPG this gen was developed by a Japanese developer.

 

[SpacLock]

Because their characters look like fucking... little bitch girl boys.

Edit: spelling.

 

[aeolist]

i don't believe you can seriously make this claim, so i assume i'm being trolled. the most innovative game last year was japanese imo (demon's souls). and none of this crap about "oh but it's a wrpgaoisdhgfoiasdgf". it's a japanese game made by japanese developers for the asian market. quite the opposite of a lot of japanese games that seem to be targetting the US market, and with detrimental results imo.

Uncharted2 is one of the biggest western developed game of last year, and it offers nothing in the way of innovation, only refinements of graphical & storytelling technique overlaid on a game we've all played before. to me the only bar that game raised was visually, and i've been around long enough to have that particular bar rasied so many times i no longer care.

Demon's Souls is a perfect example. Good Japanese games tend to do weird and interesting things with game mechanics but are surrounded by stupid design decisions that make them a chore to play.

Uncharted 2 is also a great example because it wasn't terribly original but what was there was executed just about perfectly. The game throws no barriers up between you and enjoyment, and everything about it is smooth and polished.

 

[Laughing Banana]

The issue is that Western games have progressed, improved, and massively raised the bar. Japanese games are still the same as they were last gen. Developers are not developing, so to speak. They are just churning out the same stuff.

Really? Really? Care to give examples on how western games 'have progressed and improved'? And 'massively' raised the bar? Care to give examples for Western Games that shows signs of 'developing', so to speak?

 

[The Faceless Master]

what happened was the market expanded and many people who have no idea what a 'japanese' game is just buy games that look appealing to them, and most of them happen to be western games.

 

[charlequin]

If you want to take the pessimistic, cynical view, it's completely unusual for Americans to even give a moment's notice to Japanese games in the first place (just like Japanese gamers now pay very little attention overall to American and European games) and it's just the extremely unusual circumstances behind the NES (which brought up an entire generation of gamers with almost entirely Japanese software) that led to even the temporary, slowly-fading interest that we're discussing here.

And no random battles, don't forget.

Random encounters serve a very specific game design purpose in titles like Dragon Quest, pre-PSX Final Fantasy, and Etrian Odyssey: they're a steady and (generally) unavoidable source of resource ablation in games where the fundamental purpose of the gameplay is managing your depleting resources over the course of a gameplay unit like a "dungeon" or "floor." It doesn't actually make sense to remove them from every game any more than it makes sense to make every game first-person because "that's how you see in real life" or something.

They don't seem to have developed a lot of the more modern habits I find appealing in Western games, like sane auto-save systems, less-terrible AI, interfaces that aren't a chore to operate, and voice acting that may not make my ears bleed half the time.

Other than auto-save systems (which is, I'll admit, something Japanese developers seem much less interested in implementing) I really do not see any of these as a remotely accurate description of "[current] Japanese games," taken as a broad, stereotypical category.

 

[trinest]

Same old Same old- with the lack of revolution and changes from developers/evoling.

 

[Zeliard]

Outside of Nintendo with their typically brilliant Mario games and such, Demon's Souls almost single-handedly bought the Japanese gaming industry a get out of jail free card from me.

And that's despite FFXIII.

 

[Alex Connolly]

Lost Planet 2 comes to mind for me, I love the game, but the controls are so god damn ridiculous sometimes, especially in the mechs. It could be way more simple and streamlined.

I think Lost Planet 2 is a great argument FOR Japanese developers making interesting mechanics and game systems. LP2 isn't your standard shooter-of-the-week, it doesn't control as such and has interesting nuances. It *could* have controlled exactly the same way your average Western-developed title does, but there's emphasis on different things.

The VS control complaint is, of course, subjective, but I think they control fantastically and via the control, highlight the brilliance of the animations to emphasis you're clunking around in a multiple-ton machine. There's a real art to that.

 

[evangd007]

Western PC devs jumped ship to consoles this gen and have largely overshadowed the old guard Japanese devs, as the the games that were big on PCs are now the new hotness on consoles (FPS, wRPG, etc). It's simply a symptom of the games that are popular this generation; they happen to all be genres heavily dominated by Western developers.

 

[Canova]

nope.

no hating Japanese games here. the best games i've played this generation are japanese

- Ninja Gaiden 2
- DMC4
- Demon's Souls

Íf there's hating from me, that'd be towards western developers with their boring FPS

 

[Nirolak]

Please, show me some examples.
I see Halo being Halo… CoD being CoD… Gears of War being Gears of War… God of War being God of War… Where's the that massive progression?

Yet, I look at Japanese developers and you have Kamiya moving from DMC to Bayonetta. Demon's Souls being as original as a new IP can be. You have FFXIII that as much as I may hate as a game, raises the bar on the battle system. Valkyria Chronicles that gave a twist to the SRPG genre. Vanquish is looking to be once again a game that moves a genre forward.
And you have the push that pretty much Japan alone gives to the handheld consoles.

Yes, I do think a lot of people just like to say "Japanese market is stuck in the same place… in like forever", yet, when you look at it, Japanese devs are the ones you want to look at if you're looking for innovation, progression and improvement.
And you could argue, but the Japanese games were always niche titles in the west. All those devs wanting to "westernize" their games just want to make more money. It's not because they think that it's the "right way" to do it.

I'm not weighing in here, but he was referring to generational switches, not switches within the generation.

So for two of your examples, we would have Unreal Tournament 2004 -> Gears of War and Call of Duty 1 -> Call of Duty 4 as very large scale changes. Halo 2 -> Halo: Reach might also be a very large scale change, but the game isn't out yet so I can only judge by previews.

You do list some good examples of large scale generational switches from Japan with DMC1 -> Bayonetta, King's Field -> Demon's Souls, and Skies of Arcadia -> Valkyria Chronicles however.

I do have to disagree with Demon's Souls being as original as a new IP can be though since it's definitely evolved from its King's Field roots, but almost no one has heard of King's Field so I don't blame you for missing it, and it is still a great example of evolution.

Edit:

As a note I'm mentioning these evolutions by development team in case people are confused as to why I listed UT2004->Gears and Skies->Valkyria.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Same old Same old- with the lack of revolution and changes from developers/evoling.

This is, in my eyes, not something that exclusive to Japanese developers only. Western developers are guilty to this as well.

 

[TheExecutive]

Really? Really? Care to give examples on how western games 'have progressed and improved'? And 'massively' raised the bar? Care to give examples for Western Games that shows signs of 'developing', so to speak?

That is surely a joke post. They have improved massively in both presentation and execution of gameplay. I will agree the post is very ethnocentric but there is no reason to deny the progress made by western developers.

 

[aeolist]

Other than auto-save systems (which is, I'll admit, something Japanese developers seem much less interested in implementing) I really do not see any of these as a remotely accurate description of "[current] Japanese games," taken as a broad, stereotypical category.

Again, there are always exceptions. But if those don't seem correct then consider janky controls, online systems that would have been dated 5 years ago, and largely sub-par graphics compared to Western games.

I love Japanese ideas but they really need to start adding some polish and usability if they want to expand their audience. Better standardized tech would definitely help, I know Western studios are bigger into engine development and Japanese support for things like UE3 tends to suck.

 

[thetrin]

And no random battles, don't forget. The problem I had with the DQ mechanics was/is that while they keep the good stuff from game to game, they also always retained the infuriating stuff like, well, random battles.

Xenoblade seems like its shaping up to be a good evolution of the genre, maintaining the basic stuff that made JRPGs great, but acknowledging that there are some things the west did better, and learning from them. Not changing what it is, just taking influence.

Xenoblade is a great example of what a game can be when a studio takes into account what each side of the ocean does well. A truly awesome game.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

That is surely a joke post. They have improved massively in both presentation and execution of gameplay. I will agree the post is very ethnocentric but there is no reason to deny the progress made by western developers.

Thing is, if you haven't ignored PC gaming, western games haven't changed much at all this gen. They're just available in sub-HD versions with janky control options.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I blame anime.

 

[Dead Man]

Sounds like some people care too much about what other people think of the games they enjoy. I don't really enjoy the stereotypical Japanese gaming style, but some games have been great lately, mainly VC and Demons Souls. But I don't think anyone can deny that the majority of Japanese games share a visual and story style, that is not wrong, it's just experienced for longer by most gamers than the western style.

- Whether it's an action game - "Oh God, Mikami's making another action game? I hope it doesn't have shit controls. Japanese games never seem to have good controls in games, ever. Why are they so behind?" while at the same praising a game like Grand Theft Auto IV five seconds later.

Just want to take issue with this. I have seen a division of opinion, but never have I noticed the SAME person praising one and hating the other. GAF =/= a monolith.

Edit:

Thing is, if you haven't ignored PC gaming, western games haven't changed much at all this gen. They're just available in sub-HD versions with janky control options.

Yeah, I was leaving PC gamers out with my first comments. Really just referring to the console space, since that is where the backlash seems most prevalent.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I think one of the great myths about East vs Western games is that Western games have "superior" controls and gameplay interfaces. This isn't as true as people make it out to be. The harsher truth is that Western games hold the player's hand more often and are just plain easier than Japanese games.

An example Himuro cited was GTAIV. GTAIV has anything but a "streamlined" control scheme. It's just as bad as the average "weird" Japanese game, such as Resident Evil 5. The difference is that in RE5, you die in 10 seconds if you flail around trying to understand the controls. GTAIV is much more forgiving like most western games.

However, another thing that I think western gamers aren't too interested in, is the Japanese habit of designing game systems intended to enforce a particular play style. That doesn't necessarily mean it is a BAD system, and a BAD play style. But for example, plenty of people couldn't comprehend Dead Rising and how the game "wanted" them to play, with its save system. Others couldn't understand RE5 and how it wanted a team of two players to play with it's "archaic" inventory management system and item sharing system.

The real joke here is that Demons' Souls incited an outright lovefest and that game is full of similar "archaic" control systems and interface management styles. However in its case, everybody called it "hardcore" rather than "backwards". The problem for games like RE5 and Dead Rising is that on the surface they resemble common western genres such as 3rd person action and 3rd person shooting, and so nobody seemed willing to understand what kinds of games they actually were.

The strength of Japanese developers is a weakness this gen - that strength traditionally has been in devising unique game systems that are predicated around a very specific concept. Western games tho, are promoting a uniformity that is quickly reducing all genres to, well, the same 3 or 4 kinds of games with different skins. And identical controls and play experiences across each game, minus their individual spice which makes them seem different. Sometimes standardization isn't a good thing.

And yes, I think RE5 is a superior game to Dead Space. (I like Dead Space, mind you.)

 

[Mr_Appleby]

Demon's Souls is a perfect example. Good Japanese games tend to do weird and interesting things with game mechanics but are surrounded by stupid design decisions that make them a chore to play.

Uncharted 2 is also a great example because it wasn't terribly original but what was there was executed just about perfectly. The game throws no barriers up between you and enjoyment, and everything about it is smooth and polished.

well we must disagree a little here because i don't think demon's souls was a chore to play, or that any of the design decisions were stupid

The real joke here is that Demons' Souls incited an outright lovefest and that game is full of similar "archaic" control systems and interface management styles. However in its case, everybody called it "hardcore" rather than "backwards".

i like the controls, what's wrong with them? they seem very "standard" anyway, left stick move, right stick look, target, block, attack, dodge. been playing Fable 2 and just moving around is a hideous clunkfest.

but i agree on GTAIV, like wading through 3 feet of mud. and RDR still has "tap A to run".

 

[Boney]

I think it comes from the rise of the shooter genre and the migration of Japanese developers to Handhelds.

An RPG like Eternal Sonata is in the opposite end of CoD, so it's no wonder people aren't interested in those.

The increased showing of anime in our cultures comes into play as well, in which people who aren't interested in it, stereotype it into spiky haired protagonists with stupid dialogue, and proyect those feelings towards japanese games. Asthetics are one of the larger roles when it comes to the new found hate towards japanese games.

And many Japanase publishers are trying to cater to western audiences, but as you said, their design philosophies are too different, so you see something like LP2 and people think of bad of it because the controls are designed differently as a western studio might do it.

As long as Japanese games want to be Western games, they're gonna have trouble finding the same critical reception as their western counterparts.

But when it comes to 100% japanese games like Nier, then the hate I don't get it.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Effeminate boys, loli girls, and bad dialog (wasn't too much of a problem until they started using voice acting).

 

[dralla]

The majority of modern Japanese games feel like they are stuck in the past. Regardless how you feel about games like Mass Effect or Red Dead, games like these show how Western developers are trying to move the medium forward. Even at a pure tech level, look at how Western games have dwarfed Japanese games, not to mention online. And part of it is just growing up. The people who grew up playing Japanese games are now..grown up. Does a teenager with spiky blue hair and poorly written dialogue appeal to them anymore? Probably not.

 

[Laughing Banana]

That is surely a joke post. They have improved massively in both presentation and execution of gameplay. I will agree the post is very ethnocentric but there is no reason to deny the progress made by western developers.

Why would you construe my post as a joke post? I am honestly curious about how they have, and I quote, 'massively' raised the bar. And what progress do you mean here? Sure, a number of western games, as is a number of Japanese games for that matter, have improved their presentation and gameplay, but that does not necessarily mean that Western games are more creative or innovative or progressive.

They are just doing the same ol same ol routine better than their Japanese counterparts. Even those that many people seem to highly regard as innovative like Bioware or Rockstar.

 

[Dead Man]

It was an example, man.

Yeah, but a bad one.

 

[thetrin]

I blame general western xenophobia.

The majority of modern Japanese games feel like they are stuck in the past. Regardless how you feel about games like Mass Effect or Red Dead, games like these show how Western developers are trying to move the medium forward. Even at a pure tech level, look at how Western games have dwarfed Japanese games, not to mention online. And part of it is just growing up. The people who grew up playing Japanese games are now..grown up. Does a teenager with spiky blue hair and poorly written dialogue appeal to them anymore? Probably not.

Mass Effect moved WHAT medium forward? RPGs? By making them more like shooters? By taking out all the stats and complexity that made them RPGs in the first place?

Mass Effect is a dumbed down Deus Ex, a game that came out TEN YEARS AGO (today, in fact).

If you think Mass Effect moved ANYTHING forward, you obviously don't play enough games.

 

[SonSonTwo]

I think people are just tired of zippers.

 

[LegatoB]

Is it even remotely possible to have a discussion about a Japanese game or have preference for Japanese gaming without some pissant claiming that it's made exclusively for weeaboo's or that you're Japan obsessed?

Certainly not as long as there are attempts to frame it as one group of blubbering manchildren against another group of blubbering manchildren.

It's definitely possible to enjoy Red Dead Redemption while being pumped for Resonance of Fate or a brand spankin' new Shin Megami Tensei.

And if you actually look at the discussions, here on NeoGAF and in the real world, you're not going to find very many people actually arguing that all "Western" or all "Japanese" games are inferior to the other, beyond hyperbole ("all Japan makes is grinding games for children with daddy issues", "all America makes is games about space marines and gore") and intentional trolling (like this thread).

You're inventing a strawman to bitch against, and combined with the stock subculture persecution complex that comes with any sort of "nerdy" hobby, but especially Japanimation and videogame fans, you feel the need to defend your tastes from a nebulous other that's out to shout you down and make you look like a loser. Look at the complaints in the first post: your stereotypical "JRPG-hater" says that Nier "isn't to his tastes" so he gives it a 6/10 as if there was something wrong with that. People have different tastes; a gamer who enjoys a semi-strategic WRPG like Dragon Age may well not enjoy a Japanese action RPG like Nier, and that's fine! But you already know this; you put several reasonable explanations for any perceived "gap" between "Japanese" and "Western" game design/production in your topic starter. You're just out to get attention, which worked, because I just spent five minutes writing this dumb post in response when I really should've left it with the one-line dismissal I'd originally drafted.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Anyone who says Japanese games refuse to change while praising western games are either incredibly ignorant or incredibly delusional. Most of the creativity these days are coming out of Japan but so many people refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[TheExecutive]

Thing is, if you haven't ignored PC gaming, western games haven't changed much at all this gen. They're just available in sub-HD versions with janky control options.

ok, so according to you in the last 5 years western RPG games havent improved much. I can buy that. I havent had a PC in the last 5 years that can really keep up with the games being produced. However, after these 5 years I can actually play games on my new laptop that would really show me what you are saying. Have any suggestions?

 

[Pureauthor]

I think people are just tired of zippers.

So next we just need to wait for them to get tired of bald space marines.

Yay for stupid generalizations.

 

[Relix]

It seems all of Japan is stuck. Their games aren't comparing well to western counterparts and Anime is just a shithole these days. Don't know what's going over there =/

 

[TheExecutive]

Why would you construe my post as a joke post? I am honestly curious about how they have, and I quote, 'massively' raised the bar. And what progress do you mean here? Sure, a number of western games, as is a number of Japanese games for that matter, have improved their presentation and gameplay, but that does not necessarily mean that Western games are more creative or innovative or progressive.

They are just doing the same ol same ol routine better than their Japanese counterparts. Even those that many people seem to highly regard as innovative like Bioware or Rockstar.

I was commenting on the bolded part. I do not believe they have massively raised anything other than interest for more western games.

 

[obonicus]

I don't know if you can claim that Japanese games are disliked on GAF.

 

[SonSonTwo]

So next we just need to wait for them to get tired of bald space marines.

Yay for stupid generalizations.

I know I'm tired of bald space marines, but I'm also tired of zippers.

Please buy Noby Noby Boy.

 

[Doctor_No]

I realize that this is most likely a by product of the fact that this console generation doesn't have much Japanese developer support on ps360 (though it definitely slides towards ps3's favor for Japanese oriented gaming), and that most of the Japanese games these days are being relegated to handhelds or the Wii, which as we all know are not viable platforms being that they are relegated to children and women and old people. I also realize that a gigantic bulk of console development now belongs to the west, compared to past generations when it was mostly the Japanese who made all the big hits.

This is kinda it, its economics. Japanese gaming has moved towards handhelds this generation, until recently PS3 adoption has been anemic, and the 360 even more so. Making HD console games requires a large investment, and a small Japanese installed base means a huge risk for Japanese developers.

Ultimately, to achieve a good ROI (return-on-investment) Japanese developers have been making formulaic games that have broad appeal and has the highest probability of being a hit. If it isn't a hit the sums of money they lose is massive and this discourages risk taking. In addition they have been trying to appeal to Western gamers which have higher-adoption of HD consoles. For this reason, many Japanese HD console titles have been Westernized low-risk/broad-appeal style titles that are low on difficulty. Especially, when we talk about jRPGs.

However, Japanese gaming on the DS/PSP have been awesome, there have been a lot of risk taking and innovation (largely due to the low development cost) especially when it comes to jRPGs...but those games don't get much attention in the West.

Now the PS3 is gaining traction in Japan, and we're starting to see big name titles like the Miyazaki/Level 5 Ninokuni hitting the console; which should be a huge hit if marketed correctly. And we should start to see larger budget Japanese-centric Japanese HD console games. Which is what the Japanese game industry has been lacking recently.

As for Western-centric Japanese games, they are starting to get the hang of it. Instead of making a another FPS-clone of a Western game they are starting to find that Japanese-uniqueness, or twist, that sets them apart. MGS Rising, Itagaki's Devil's Third, Demon's Soul, Bayonetta are examples of that. If they could further push the envelope in that direction it would change general Western public perception.

 

[major_killjoy]

I blame general western xenophobia.

More like western ethnocentrism. Then again, who isn't guilty of this?

 

[TheExecutive]

Mass Effect moved WHAT medium forward? RPGs? By making them more like shooters? By taking out all the stats and complexity that made them RPGs in the first place?

Mass Effect is a dumbed down Deus Ex, a game that came out TEN YEARS AGO (today, in fact).

If you think Mass Effect moved ANYTHING forward, you obviously don't play enough games.

The original mass effect moved a dialogue tree forward to the masses. I dont really care if they pioneered it but they most certainly made it more visual. However, ME2 is a poor 3rd person shooter. Nothing more, nothing less. All they had in that game is a dialogue tree without the RPG. It was truly a disappointment.

 

[thetrin]

However, Japanese gaming on the DS/PSP have been awesome, there have been a lot of risk taking and innovation (largely due to the low development cost) especially when it comes to jRPGs...but those games don't get much attention in the West.

Now the PS3 is gaining traction in Japan, and we're starting to see big name titles like the Miyazaki/Level 5 Ninokuni hitting the console; which should be a huge hit if marketed correctly. And we should start to see larger budget Japanese-centric Japanese HD console games. Which is what the Japanese game industry has been lacking recently.

As for Western-centric Japanese games, they are starting to get the hang of it. Instead of making a another FPS-clone of a Western game they are starting to find that Japanese-uniqueness, or twist, that sets them apart. MGS Rising, Itagaki's Devil's Third, Demon's Soul, Bayonetta are examples of that. If they could further push the envelope in that direction it would change general Western public perception.

THIS! TOTALLY THIS! If you aren't playing Japanese releases on handhelds, you're not playing what Japan is making. All this "they don't compare" bullshit is because you're not playing the best stuff.

 

[Ranger X]

I think the RE5 vs Dead Space argument is the best take on Japanese vs Western gaming philosophy.

RE5 shouldn't have "evolved" into what Dead Space is. RE5 is a totally different type of game.

RE5 is a game based around limitations -- whether mechanical or control-wise -- to create a game with tension to enhance the gameplay.

Dead Space is a game where freedom in controls allows you ease of access to do whatever the fuck you want so long as the game allows it.

It's a conflict between two game design ideologies. One is pre-dominantly Japanese; the other is pre-dominantly western.

I see no reason as to why RE should be like Dead Space as that puts more Dead Space's on the market and less RE's. Variety is good. Every game doesn't have to play the same or control the same.

And you know where it gets really complicated?

Dead Space feels like RE4 way more than RE5 and is in the same quality style. So where is the real "evolution"? Isn't it evident here when we think about the famous "evolution is only change"?
Dead Space looks more "evolved" than RE5 but in fact it's doing a great job because it's more like RE4.

So I just think there good and bad games. Sometimes it's great to recreate older feels and styles because it simply works well. It's really wierd when I hear some american people going like their games really evolved because they didn't really evolved, they only changed, just like any other games from anywhere. Sometimes it's for the good, sometimes for the bad.

.

 

[Technosteve]

I though the easy answer was xbox launched first this gen, and Sony was late. American mid set at the start of "nextgen" were American games.

Also DS is really the system where jap shines, I play all my jrpgs on my DS, nostalgia keeps me buying remakes.