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[EmptySpace]

I believe the point here is that for a next-gen "open-world" game - it is lacking in many of the features that pretty much define it since way back in GTA3. It's not about having driving cars that is the issue just like it's being inconvenient to ride a train on GTA3 doesn't nullify the world the developers created it.

An open-world game by next-gen standards is not having the density and fidelity to support it making it just another stage back-drop than an actual interactive world. If the excuse of budget is the main issue, than the developer has set themselves up to scrutiny for not living up to the standards of what a next gen open-world should be. It's bad enough that most, if not all open-world titles, rely on copy/paste missions to pad length and now it can't even meet the base requirement that should've been expected from a new generation title.

that's just a stupid analogy. being open-world does not mean doing everything that's physically possible.

do things that make sense within the context of the game. i don't want to be able to buy ice cream or go buy a ticket to ride the monorail in a game about a guy with superpowers.

and who said the standard of an open-world game is to have everything interactive? in case you didn't know, being open-world isn't a genre. do you categorize linear games as a genre? you don't. therefore, open-world games shouldn't conform to a universal rule of "interactivity". it depends upon the genre of the game. infamous is a different game than skyrim, yet both are open-world games. same thing with pokemon and saint's row.

not to mention, reviewers complaining about "not next gen enough" don't even know what they want from a next-gen game. they just see a game improving upon its formula and they see that as a negative, which is ridiculous. they want a sequel to change up the formula and play differently? then that isn't a sequel. not since the transition from 2d to 3d have we seen radically different elements that changed the way we play games. every game since then was a reiteration of a previously-explored element, and improved upon in magnitudes.

what i hate the most are people asking for a "next gen experience" when even indie games can give players a radically new way of playing or interacting with the games. therefore, new gameplay ideas should not be based upon new hardware, or a new generation. new gameplay can emerge from the simplest of titles with the most rudimentary graphics. so this notion that "new gen brings about new-gen gameplay" is just flat-out stupid. if you are jaded and sick that a sequel plays overwhelmingly like its predecessors, then don't use the excuse that a new hardware should somehow automatically mean a new type of gameplay. the crux here is that the base thinking is flawed, so it leads to irrational conclusions. you associate a new piece of hardware with a new gameplay design for a sequel, on top of a design that we have not seen before. they don't want a "next-gen gameplay", they just want infamous to not play like infamous and change up the formula all while being a sequel.

 

[Duxxy3]

I am mostly through my good playthrough, and I have to say... what was Sessler smoking when he reviewed this game?

Best looking game of the generation. Non-repetitive gameplay. Half decent story. Good voice acting.

Even an 8 would be low to me.

 

[marcincz]

I put 5 hours into this game so far... it's a 9/10 for me.

All PS4 owners should pick this up.

Completely and totally agreed. I'm in 5 h too (25%) and 9/10 for me, no doubt. Powers are great, using of touchpad is far far better, than KZ:SF for example. Audio and video no comments. It's amazing. The best looking game so far.

 

[Cave Johnson]

that's just a stupid analogy. being open-world does not mean doing everything that's physically possible.

do things that make sense within the context of the game. i don't want to be able to buy ice cream or go buy a ticket to ride the monorail in a game about a guy with superpowers.

At no point did I mention that an open-world genre has to replicate life. You're being extremely contentious with your rebuttal just for the sake of defending an arbitrary design choice that only serves as as a shiny new wallpaper for the same room and passing it off as "new". As someone who expects a lot from the creative and interactive medium, this is just the laziest design choice out of all.

and who said the standard of an open-world game is to have everything interactive? in case you didn't know, being open-world isn't a genre. do you categorize linear games as a genre? you don't. therefore, open-world games shouldn't conform to a universal rule of "interactivity". it depends upon the genre of the game. infamous is a different game than skyrim, yet both are open-world games. same thing with pokemon and saint's row.

I think you're reading in too much about my statement. I never said anything to imply to simulate every aspect of the world but there should be some sort of standard to make any sort of game world, be it linear or open, especially when given more powerful tools to deal with.

There should be some sort of progression in the game design field and not simplified to the point just to create a mere backdrop to your character's agency. What would be the point of seeing new powerful hardware? Why are game-engines creating more tools for more physics, destructibility when game developers can be content to stick to the bare minimum quota. Expectations are to be met, especially when it comes to dealing with better hardware. I'm not trying to be unrealistic. People like me need some justification with that kind of purchase. And games like Second Son isn't giving me any motivation to do so as long as developers follow through with that kind of design choice.

**I'm not entirely sure how you got the "open-world as a genre" from my earlier statement. Are you referring to someone else?

not to mention, reviewers complaining about "not next gen enough" don't even know what they want from a next-gen game. they just see a game improving upon its formula and they see that as a negative, which is ridiculous. they want a sequel to change up the formula and play differently? then that isn't a sequel. not since the transition from 2d to 3d have we seen radically different elements that changed the way we play games. every game since then was a reiteration of a previously-explored element, and improved upon in magnitudes.

You're painting all reviewers in the same brush stroke when some of them actually give legitimate criticism to the "current-gen-gameplay-next-gen-visuals" review. Too say they "don't know" is being too judgemental to say the least. Some prefer more output based on player agency, or more structured missions that doesn't rely on repetitive tasks.

what i hate the most are people asking for a "next gen experience" when even indie games can give players a radically new way of playing or interacting with the games. therefore, new gameplay ideas should not be based upon new hardware, or a new generation. new gameplay can emerge from the simplest of titles with the most rudimentary graphics. so this notion that "new gen brings about new-gen gameplay" is just flat-out stupid. if you are jaded and sick that a sequel plays overwhelmingly like its predecessors, then don't use the excuse that a new hardware should somehow automatically mean a new type of gameplay.

I find it ironic that you can criticise a person's opinion on gameplay without providing any sort of metric to follow up. It's not just about being "new". It's about taking the up-to-date tools and exploit them to their maximum creative use. Your indie excuse is false equivalency to this scenario since you're reducing next-gen down to your interpretation of it's game design.

the crux here is that the base thinking is flawed, so it leads to irrational conclusions. you associate a new piece of hardware with a new gameplay design for a sequel, on top of a design that we have not seen before. they don't want a "next-gen gameplay", they just want infamous to not play like infamous and change up the formula all while being a sequel.

That entirely depends on the scenario. Game design doesn't exist in a small bubble. Resident Evil 4 happened, and that is a game that uses new hardware and refine a [tank-controls] formula that has worked considerably in the past. The difference is that they traded jump-scares and passive approach to a direct and tense based scenario. Some people hated the change but it doesn't nullify the fact that what they set to accomplished worked. And that is what the issue is about.

If a developer cannot take his franchise to a new level of expectations than he is limited in his creativity and deserve to be criticized for it. Whether or not the formula is to be changed is fully dependent on how consistent it is to the theme of the franchise. If it makes the franchise better by taking more creative risk then that means I'm fully supportive of it. This is completely different to the "catering-to-the-wider-audience" mentality other developers eschew into their game design. Hopefully now that my points are more elaborated upon and my intended criticism of the game.

 

[MYE]

Wow, a lot of bans in here. What happened? :/

 

[kaching]

Clearly you and I are on completely different page on this. You are also talking about teams of 200 to 1000 people working on a game versus a team of 80 people. BTW, I will be disappointed if you don't come to Watch Dogs thread and ask about planes.

The bulk of teams that size are down to asset generation and multiplatform support, not core programming and engine support. Assets in the case we're discussing are largely done and it's mostly the programming of the additional game mechanics that's left to do which, regardless of whether the team is 80 people or 1000, would typically fall on only a small handful of staff to implement.

Your statement about Watch Dogs tells me you've largely misinterpreted just about everything I've said.

Did you really just write a novel because a superhero game doesnt have driveable cars? You do know you have these things called "powers" that allow you to have the same level of traversal, if not more, then of a car.

Yup. I was up all night, dude, and had to consult the thesaurus on multiple occasions. I was considering double-spacing all the paragraphs just to pad it out so you'd really be amazed by my posting endurance.

I'm about four hours into the game so far, have smoke and neon powers and can't say I really agree that his traversal powers are necessarily better or even just equivalent to using a car. With the powers I have so far, I have to keep reboosting over long distances, having to keep recharging regularly, can't just go from point A to point B in one continuous, uninterrupted fashion. So far in this game being able to use a vehicle for traversal would be a welcome alternative.

Traversal isn't the only use for cars of course. They can be used offensively, defensively, as part of a stealth mechanic, and so forth. But I don't think you're really interested in some genuine discourse on the topic and are probably just going to see this as another wall of text.

The only thing I have to add to the thread is that it somewhat surprises me that a ton of people would rather have 100 half-assed things in open world games than half a dozen well done ones.

I hope that isn't aimed at me in any way, because that's the furthest thing from what I'm trying to convey.

I think you're missing the point of a sandbox game where you're a bloody superhero!

I don't think I've ever played a sandbox game where you aren't essentially a bloody superhero, so I just don't see why you guys keep trying to draw a massive distinction.

 

[BigDug13]

The bulk of teams that size are down to asset generation and multiplatform support, not core programming and engine support. Assets in the case we're discussing are largely done and it's mostly the programming of the additional game mechanics that's left to do which, regardless of whether the team is 80 people or 1000, would typically fall on only a small handful of staff to implement.

Your statement about Watch Dogs tells me you've largely misinterpreted just about everything I've said.

Yup. I was up all night, dude, and had to consult the thesaurus on multiple occasions. I was considering double-spacing all the paragraphs just to pad it out so you'd really be amazed by my posting endurance.

I'm about four hours into the game so far, have smoke and neon powers and can't say I really agree that his traversal powers are necessarily better or even just equivalent to using a car. With the powers I have so far, I have to keep reboosting over long distances, having to keep recharging regularly, can't just go from point A to point B in one continuous, uninterrupted fashion. So far in this game being able to use a vehicle for traversal would be a welcome alternative.

Traversal isn't the only use for cars of course. They can be used offensively, defensively, as part of a stealth mechanic, and so forth. But I don't think you're really interested in some genuine discourse on the topic and are probably just going to see this as another wall of text.

I hope that isn't aimed at me in any way, because that's the furthest thing from what I'm trying to convey.

I don't think I've ever played a sandbox game where you aren't essentially a bloody superhero, so I just don't see why you guys keep trying to draw a massive distinction.

Did you upgrade the neon to the continuous run ability? Once you do you can basically run non-stop through the entire city, over buildings, etc. How can you possibly say that driving is just as good as that?

 

[Kariodude]

Here's a new review

Yes it's mine and yes it's bad.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Here's a new review

Yes it's mine and yes it's bad.

i give your a video a 7.9

but seriously....funny video man. Im going to check out some of your other videos.

 

[Cubed]

I'm glad it's getting decent to great reviews. I'm actually surprised how many nines the game received.

Even though I, personally, would give the game 8/10, I still feel a little bummed that it is sitting at 80% on Metacritic. Haha. Must be my PS fanboyism kicking in. Even though I can be critical of the game and personally feel it is only an 8, I just want PlayStation exclusives to get a little more love. Still, 80% is pretty good.

 

[Principate]

I'm looking forward to an open world Superman game where they force you to drive everywhere as Clark Kent instead of flying.

Umm what is that a joke because it actually makes sense that Clark Kent the secret identity of Superman would eventually drive around to keep his identity well secret he doesn't have to drive even if he's in the persona of Clark Kent but it's certainty not strange for him to do so.

It's like Bruce Wayne not always using the batmobile

 

[WrenchNinja]

Umm what is that a joke because it actually makes sense that Clark Kent the secret identity of Superman would eventually drive around to keep his identity well secret he doesn't have to drive even if he's in the persona of Clark Kent but it's certainty not strange for him to do so.

It's like Bruce Wayne not always using the batmobile

It would make zero sense for a major metropolitan journalist who lives in the city to own a car let alone drive.

 

[Lemondish]

I don't think I've ever played a sandbox game where you aren't essentially a bloody superhero, so I just don't see why you guys keep trying to draw a massive distinction.

Have you ever played an infamous game? It's less of a sandbox and more of an open world narrative driven single player adventure. I mean, if you haven't played them the I guess you wouldn't understand how absolutely fucking stupid your request to drive vehicles is.

 

[Lemondish]

Umm what is that a joke because it actually makes sense that Clark Kent the secret identity of Superman would eventually drive around to keep his identity well secret he doesn't have to drive even if he's in the persona of Clark Kent but it's certainty not strange for him to do so.

It's like Bruce Wayne not always using the batmobile

Who the hell wants to play a game as Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne? Perhaps you should stick with things like goat simulator since being a supehero doesn't seem to appeal to you.

 

[Principate]

It would make zero sense for a major metropolitan journalist who lives in the city to own a car let alone drive.

Why, your assuming he never leaves the city come on now. It's really not remotely strange.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Here's a new review

Yes it's mine and yes it's bad.

Awesome channel, sir!

 

[Yaoibot]

First game I've played that actually looks and feels "next gen". It uses the touchpad well, too. Don't get these nitpicks about it being not next-gen enough. Visually, its a spectacle. Story wise its far better than I thought. Good Scifi Channel good, not Oscar worthy. But certainly more than passable for a videogame. The Native American stuff is cool too.

 

[Roto13]

Someone complaining that you can't drive a car in a game where traversal is a million times more interesting and fun than driving a car in an open world game has ever been?

Seriously?

 

[liger05]

I like it but from playing it for a fair bit of time the reviews seem pretty accurate to me. 7 or an 8 at best seems fair.

 

[Kusagari]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

 

[Atlas157]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

I agree. Sliding your finger on the controller is so much harder than pushing a button.

 

[hawk2025]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

It really, really doesn't.

 

[Yaoibot]

And my God: how ADORABLE IS BETTY?

 

[Fletcher]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

I agree. Same with the tilt your controller and rattle it to spray.

 

[Sorian]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

Subtle immersion is different than what I am used to so it is terrible.

 

[Aesius]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

I like it. The sound effects from the controller speaker are pretty cool too.

 

[DoctorZ]

Subtle immersion is different than what I am used to so it is terrible.

Its far from subtle.

 

[RedStep]

Subtle immersion is different than what I am used to so it is terrible.

Dude, turning your controller sideways, holding it awkwardly, and trying to spray a stencil (when a thumbstick would be much better) is not "subtle immersion", it is shoehorning in the console's unique features.

Do you think the Kinect forcing somebody to gesture or speak in a controller-based game would also be "subtle immersion"? Bad is bad, go defend the good parts of the game. Swiping left to break a door when I can hit everything else with my chain is just stupid.

That said, there are a few points where it makes sense (ie thumbprint scanners), but those are the vast minority. The sound effects from the controller are cool though.

 

[Kusagari]

Subtle immersion is different than what I am used to so it is terrible.

It's not subtle and I don't consider it immersion at all. If anything it's completely taking me out of the game.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

The absence of being able to drive shouldn't be held against the game, but it would be cool

I always appreciate open-world games that let the player interact with everything in that world in ways that make sense. if I can be evil, let me steal cars

 

[VanCityGamer]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

I like the touchpad stuff. What they've used so far has felt intuitive and great.

The most pleasant controller-related surprise has been the sound the speaker makes when powers are absorbed from objects. The 'whoosh' is so satisfying. I really like how both Infamous and Resogun have used the speaker. Excited to see how other devs use it in the future.

 

[riskVSreward]

I thought the spray painting was a legitimate, novel idea for integrating the DS4 gyro and speaker into gameplay. It made me smile.

 

[mullet2000]

The touchpad stuff in this game feels so tacked on and pointless.

Feels like how Sony jammed in SixAxis crap in all early PS3 games.

I wouldn't go that far. The forced sixaxis stuff on PS3 was WAY worse and way more annoying.

That said I don't like the majority of the touchpad stuff either.

 

[Raitosaito]

I really like the graffiti and the touchpad stuff. This is not Killzone 2 level bad, so people are over exaggerating.

It's quite accurate, and takes barely any effort.

 

[kartu]

Not sure what Titanfall has to do with this review.

Or Sessler...
Oh wait...

 

[EGM1966]

And my God: how ADORABLE IS BETTY?

On my evil play-though I don't think I'll be able to turn her in. I'll just have to be extra evil after being nice to Betty first.

On the note of characters I have to say so far I've found the writing and characters (and voice work) a notable step up from previous installments.

 

[kaching]

Did you upgrade the neon to the continuous run ability? Once you do you can basically run non-stop through the entire city, over buildings, etc. How can you possibly say that driving is just as good as that?

No, not yet. I clearly said "so far" in my post. I realize this gets upgraded, but I've already spent a sizable chunk of the game without it. And in any case, I've cited other reasons for the value of vehicles in games like this, beyond simple traversal.

Have you ever played an infamous game? It's less of a sandbox and more of an open world narrative driven single player adventure. I mean, if you haven't played them the I guess you wouldn't understand how absolutely fucking stupid your request to drive vehicles is.

Yes, I've played all of them, and playing through SS now. And I've already cited multiple ways in which use of vehicles could very well fit in the "narrative driven single player adventure" of a game like inFamous and frankly think that calling it "less of a sandbox" is a cop out as I sit here running all over an open world rendition of Seattle collecting shards, chasing down secret agents, breaking up drug rings, spraying graffiti and generally following the main "narrative driven single player adventure" at whatever pace I feel like, just like any other sandbox game.

Dude, turning your controller sideways, holding it awkwardly, and trying to spray a stencil (when a thumbstick would be much better) is not "subtle immersion", it is shoehorning in the console's unique features.

I have no problem spraying a stencil this way. The gyros in the DS4 are very accurate and don't need exaggerated movements to move precisely. I can control the spray very precisely this way. It's a simple, novel approach that works very naturally to bring a little bit of variety to an optional set of side missions.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I really love how they used the touchpad. It was either simple swipes or just using it as a button. Worked really well and my right thumb never felt overextended trying to use it. Also, the tagging minigame had a learning curve until I figured out it worked best if you were seated directly in front of your TV. Afterwards it was simple and fun.

 

[jayu26]

The bulk of teams that size are down to asset generation and multiplatform support, not core programming and engine support. Assets in the case we're discussing are largely done and it's mostly the programming of the additional game mechanics that's left to do which, regardless of whether the team is 80 people or 1000, would typically fall on only a small handful of staff to implement.

Your statement about Watch Dogs tells me you've largely misinterpreted just about everything I've said.

Here is a question, would those assets (cars) work when driving programming is added? From the looks of it, crux of your argument is that drivable cars is easy to program for or would not take as much time. However, from the get go you have said that it you don't know how this (games making) actually works. So the question is, how do you know that it is easy?

Or is your argument that it is a baseline thing and cars should be in every open world game set in "present day". So, is it still cool for Watch Dogs to not have fly-able planes? Seems like that's a baseline that game should meet...

I will also keep giving you examples of how it is not as easy as you make it seem. They have to add body deformation for when cars collide with something. Which their current assets clearly don't have. Having cars with mindless AI and drivable cars are different beasts.

You are right, I don't know what you are saying.

 

[MyLifeIsALie]

I really love how they used the touchpad. It was either simple swipes or just using it as a button. Worked really well and my right thumb never felt overextended trying to use it. Also, the tagging minigame had a learning curve until I figured out it worked best if you were seated directly in front of your TV. Afterwards it was simple and fun.

I sit infront of my tv so i never had a problem with it.. I like their use of touch pad as well. Simple and easy but adds something. Speaking of controller the use of the speaker is really great i think. When your getting a shard the sound starts with your tv speakers and blends into the controller, really giving you a feeling of it drawing into you. Nice

 

[GolazoDan]

I sit infront of my tv so i never had a problem with it.. I like their use of touch pad as well. Simple and easy but adds something. Speaking of controller the use of the speaker is really great i think. When your getting a shard the sound starts with your tv speakers and blends into the controller, really giving you a feeling of it drawing into you. Nice

Yep, some of the little touches and gimmicks are really nice. There's a few things I'd initially dislike that I kinda dig, like the spray painting. It's a bit weird but funny. The speaker being used for the mobile phone ringtone's nice as well.

Touchpad's alright too, it's not like you have to do much precise stuff on it.

 

[Ishan]

hmm infamous user reviews on metacritic are on par with critics reviews ... Isnt that like quite rare on most well reviewed games? They tend to be atleast 2 3 tenths lower and normally atleast half lower.

 

[zackmorris]

I think I'm ready to give my review.
I am really enjoying this game.

 

[sn00zer]

In honor of the fallen (finally my gif is relevant)

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

i actually enjoy the spray painting and swiping to do things...

my only beef is that My smoke that lets me subdue enemies can "eliminate suspects"

thats so fucking stupid!

 

[Blitzrules240]

Dammit this isn't the OT lol.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

As someone who didn't like the first two but is really enjoying this one, I think saying it's for fans of the series is doing it a bit of an injustice. For me, the easiest comparison I can make is how Ezio's character was a big part of the instantly obvious improvements to the game. I find the stoic, frigid Cole to be like Altair in this comparison. It goes to show how important it is for the protagonist to be likeable.

While the gameplay isn't anything special, it's satisfying and there is enough sub-junk that I cleared three sections of the map before even going to the Space Needle. I'll probably 100% it.

And boy is it pretty.

 

[StealthGoblin]

My only gripe is that there doesn't feel like there is enough to do.

It would be nice if there were 'hidden' powers that you could find if you spent the time doing it. Something to make your hero/villain different than your mates.

There really needed to be another 20+ different variety types of side mission.

 

[Kickz]

Beat this last night, gotta say I was satisified with it. My favorite boss and story was the Angel kid, really enjoyed his dimension level alot. This is weird but this might be the only game I have beat every entry in the series for.

Good work Infamous devs

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Beat this last night, gotta say I was satisified with it. My favorite boss and story was the Angel kid, really enjoyed his dimension level alot. This is weird but this might be the only game I have beat every entry in the series for.

Good work Infamous devs

We do have an OT for this you know. No need to bump old threads.