Insane Metal
Member
For console gaming, I'll be more than happy if those machines are able to run all games at 1080p60.
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Is 4K the best way to use the power of Scorpio and PS4K? Digital Foundry unconvinced
- Thread starter ShogunDarius
- Start date
SEGAvangelist
Member
4K is pretty much here now. I think it's perfect timing.
Nowadays the difference between presets is so small.
For example: here is doom on low and ultra.
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
60fps is overrated
many games does NOT need higher frame rate than a stable 30fps , it's a waste of processing power.
same think does apply to a native 4K resolution because even in 2017 only a small percentage of total user base will be 4K enabled. Scorpio will be just a first step vs a real "4K generation of native games& console "
with scorpio, i'd like to see some creative usage of 6TF, as :
- HDR native support on every game
- 1080p @ much higher frame rate ( 120fps) for specific VR games
- dynamic resolution 1080p-2160p to optimize frame rate
- native support on multi display setup or different aspect ratio game as 21:9
- powerhouse games @1080p / 30 fps and tons of post processing effect
- better LOD in open world games
and so on
in my opinion with actual hardware video scaler a good compromise would be render natively @ 1440p with lot of detail then upscale to 4K display
many games does NOT need higher frame rate than a stable 30fps , it's a waste of processing power.
same think does apply to a native 4K resolution because even in 2017 only a small percentage of total user base will be 4K enabled. Scorpio will be just a first step vs a real "4K generation of native games& console "
with scorpio, i'd like to see some creative usage of 6TF, as :
- HDR native support on every game
- 1080p @ much higher frame rate ( 120fps) for specific VR games
- dynamic resolution 1080p-2160p to optimize frame rate
- native support on multi display setup or different aspect ratio game as 21:9
- powerhouse games @1080p / 30 fps and tons of post processing effect
- better LOD in open world games
and so on
in my opinion with actual hardware video scaler a good compromise would be render natively @ 1440p with lot of detail then upscale to 4K display
civilstrife
Member
Nowadays the difference between presets is so small.
For example: here is doom on low and ultra.
This is a really eye opening post.
Whenever a new GPU is released and I'm tempted to upgrade, I'm going to remind myself that this is what I must be willing to spend hundreds of dollars on.
...Scatter...
Banned
Judging by some of these benchmarks if I compare the Scorpio to the 390x (which I think is fair) the system could do 4k 30fps with most current titles on Ultra/High. I do think we're in a time now where there should be a 1080p max setting and a 4k setting.
Actually a really good post. I already knew ultra is not an important setting for me on PC - there are several power-sucking features that don't add much to the image quality. But I didn't realise how low you could go and still look good. I think for a console being played on a TV 8-10ft away I'd be ok with PC medium settings. But then I also don't mind 30fps in most games
Hm, I don't think I really understand MS's and Sony's thought process behind the new consoles. I mean, their goal is to sell products -- and here they are coming out with a console, apparently intended for the enthusiast alone, both in design/function and marketing. It even risks lost sales on the standard console, at least until the marketing and purpose is clarified.
A company doesn't really care how good the graphics on their console is, they just care about selling consoles and games. But, as graphics get better, people will obviously demand better graphics for their games -- but, isn't that what typical console generations represented? How would console game sales look if all the console games still had Playstation 2/3 level graphics?
I mean, that's great, if that's really what it is, but it's strange for such a big a company to make something with, apparently, no interest in sales or profits, or doesn't make much sense in terms of potential sales (Especially if what they've said is true -- no exclusive games, marketing focused on how little difference it makes compared to the standard console.). (?)
Obviously, it's great for the gamers, but.. like I said, it doesn't make much sense to me.
A company doesn't really care how good the graphics on their console is, they just care about selling consoles and games. But, as graphics get better, people will obviously demand better graphics for their games -- but, isn't that what typical console generations represented? How would console game sales look if all the console games still had Playstation 2/3 level graphics?
I mean, that's great, if that's really what it is, but it's strange for such a big a company to make something with, apparently, no interest in sales or profits, or doesn't make much sense in terms of potential sales (Especially if what they've said is true -- no exclusive games, marketing focused on how little difference it makes compared to the standard console.). (?)
Obviously, it's great for the gamers, but.. like I said, it doesn't make much sense to me.
Bitch Pudding
Member
True. But I think it is no coincidence that Scorpio has 4,5 times more power than XBOX One. This is - round about - the exact amount of additional power you need to render current state-of-the art XBOX One games like Forza Horizon 3 at 4k at the same frame rate. Yet, no more, no less. So at least, devs indeed have the option to render their games at 4k, without much ado.
For Neo i'd be happy with a 2k image down scaled to 1080p output with a decent AA method. Highest level of AF, same with shadows...then whatever juice is left throw more bells and whistles at it. I'd like to see a bump in system memory aswell from 8gig to at least 12gig unless there's some swanky texture compression techniques Polaris has. Realistically I know Neo is supposed to have an additional 500mb free for developers but is there time for Sony to refine this close to the rumoured late 2017 launch?
Dictator93
Member
You can get better than console settings 4K 60 fps with the right GPU... today.... and since a year ago.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
But PC game is so expensive because if your not playing on ultra its not worth it
/S
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
RealityCheque
Banned
Short answer: nope.
60fps or death.
60fps or death.
Or maybe people DO want 1080p 60fps with ultra settings? It can't be that though....
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
jim2point0
Banned
It requires SLI but yes, you can do it.
I think you mean GPUs. A single 980TI can't do it.
Unless you mean higher than console, but less than Ultra? Maybe. Here's a benchmark for high that I found.
CyberPunked
Member
This is a very specific case.
roadrunn3r
Member
Nope, a GTX 950 is 1,57 TFLOPS and there is not a single game where it doesn't perform a lot better than both consoles. This misconception needs to die.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I'm surprised it took them this long to realize that resolution isn't everything. That power is far better used to get even better lighting, graphics quality and effects at a more manageable resolution, rather than going 4K just because you can. Games will end up looking far better if they target 1080p with superior lighting, shadows, effects etc.
CrispyBoar
Banned
And the fact that 95% of PC gamers who game on either Native 720p or Native 1080p monitors is also a clue that Native 4K won't be happening on any platform anytime soon.
Dictator93
Member
Yeah, I do not mean Ultra across the board rather high and medium, some stuff utlra like textures and a nice OC on a Titan X or 980 Ti for example. DF did a video discussing this topic with default clocks.
I am sure you could get away without touching resolution scaling if you OC'd the right amount aka 1500 or so.
1080p on 4k displays is a different beast compared to other resolutions on a 1080p display. It's a clean, even scale so it looks sharp and avoids scaling artifacts. As someone that despised scaling artifacts, I would rather the clean scale with higher framerates and better effects.
CyberPunked
Member
More drastic effects are usually seen:Nowadays the difference between presets is so small.
For example: here is doom on low and ultra.
Low
Ultra
CrispyBoar
Banned
Boss★Moogle;207576025 said:
Difference is, is that Microsoft's been the one who's been touting Native 4K gaming on the Scorpio. Not even Sony had made the same claim with the Neo.
They will be just upscaling. Sony never claimed Native 4K gaming on the Neo one bit.
DerZuhälter
Member
Going for 4K and having backward compatible games is absolutely horrible for true gaming and development progress.
I'd rather have a dynamic real time GI solution which would speed up development time and look stellar. Just look at The Tomorrow Children's lighting. Blows anything out of the water.
This way we'll get the same stuff we are having already, but in higher res.
I'd rather have a dynamic real time GI solution which would speed up development time and look stellar. Just look at The Tomorrow Children's lighting. Blows anything out of the water.
This way we'll get the same stuff we are having already, but in higher res.
Dictator93
Member
Nowadays the difference between presets is so small.
For example: here is doom on low and ultra.
Slightly unfair comparison as it is showing off areas that will not showcase the difference in a more obvious manner: any shiny surface or - honestly - movement (due to the shadow aliasing) will make the game look quite different.
Maybe it's the Audi R8 which attracts attention even though most people will buy the A4? They don't need to sell lots initially as an enthusiast machine, and then slowly reduce cost as the high end machine becomes the standard and then they introduce a new high end.
I have. I'll still take 60fps.
Nvidia GPUs=/=AMD GPUs. That being said, i don't think you're entirely wrong.
Now that is waste, on Scorpio at least.
60 fps makes every game better, imo, no exceptions.
Heck, I went from a phone that was limited to 30 fps, to one that was 60 fps, and it was immediately a huge improvement in smoothness.
PeskyToaster
Member
I would much rather have them get additional effects and 60 fps than trim those things for 4k. Like everything in computing the numbers rarely tell the whole story. There's a million aspects to overall image quality than just resolution.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Considering you actually need 4 times the GPU processing power to get 4K at the same detail level and framerate as 1080p, I'm not sure we're actually getting anywhere near that with Scorpio and Neo.
4K will largely be limited to indie games and UHD Blu-ray. Most games will still be in 1080p but have better graphics on Scorpio and Neo.
4K will largely be limited to indie games and UHD Blu-ray. Most games will still be in 1080p but have better graphics on Scorpio and Neo.
Every time a new generation or new piece of hardware comes along, so does the hope and expectation of 60fps. But with MS talking so much about 4K I just don't see 60fps happening.
Frankly if you really want 60fos in your games you should be looking at PC where you can choose to prioritise framerate over detail.
andythinkpad
Member
It's the best way to use the power for Sony but I am not sure if its the best way for MS. MS doesn't have other products tie to 4K. Unless Microsoft has a master plan to offer specific 4k-related functions on win10 and win11 only.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Gjq7MEhU0
4k@60+ fps on a 1080. Everything at ultra. 8k@30fps in SLI too.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
6TF is too much power for a mid-gen upgrade that has to keep its graphics capability within range of a 1.2TF machine. Either go next gen full stop or don't do it at all.
Pops Maellard
Member
I have this horrible feeling that whatever systems release after Scorpio/Neo are going to be heavy on 4K/60fps "remasters" of all of the sub-1080p current gen games we've had.
EatinOlives
Member
To this day we still get games with dynamic resolution and sub-1080p displays in games. And now a mid-gen upgrade is supposed to bring us to 4K? :lol :lol