"Main protagonist returns home" is what they've said.
There's quite a diversity of ethnicities in the himalayas. Dude doesn't exactly look flat out western european either.
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Is anyone else concerned about Far Cry 4's villain? (LGBT issue + mild spoilers)
- Thread starter Garrett Hawke
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"Main protagonist returns home" is what they've said.
There's quite a diversity of ethnicities in the himalayas. Dude doesn't exactly look flat out western european either.
CaptainSlow
Member
As a member of the B in LGBT, I honestly don't care. I want the game to be fun but we all know that there's going to be 20 Patricia Hernandez articles on Kotaku that will be mind numbingly dumb.
Personally I was more concerned with his overt superiority complex considering how fucking crazy he was. It never crossed my mind that he was homosexual or was fitting a homosexual stereotype.
After making your post I can see the stereotype now and all I can say is that
1) homosexuals aren't typically presented as badguys which you yourself point out with Dragon Age
2) Anyone hating on the character for their sexual orientation didn't need a videogame to influence their ignorance. Just ignore them unless they are actively trying to hurt you in the work place or within social circles.
After making your post I can see the stereotype now and all I can say is that
1) homosexuals aren't typically presented as badguys which you yourself point out with Dragon Age
2) Anyone hating on the character for their sexual orientation didn't need a videogame to influence their ignorance. Just ignore them unless they are actively trying to hurt you in the work place or within social circles.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
More of a metro sexual psychopath from what I saw.
EdibleKnife
Member
This is where you lose me. The average gamer is capable of nuances more than villain = hate and hero = love. There are such things as likable antagonists in video games as much as in film. We have topics about the most awesome video game antagonists almost every other month right here on GAF. Heck, Vaas from the last game was easily the most awesome thing about Far Cry 3. People loved that guy. I loved that guy. And from what I've seen, I really like this guy. I think "average gamer" in your post should be replaced with "gamers who are already homophobes". Gay hero or gay villain, a person who is homophobic would still be homophobic.
The problem with RE5 wasn't that fact that you're killing black people (there are far too many light-skinned enemies in the game anyway). The problem was the enraged naked tribal dudes throwing spears at you.
Apparently... although i believe this is completely different issue and invalid one to boot.
Most of the (fiction/adventure) books and movies pre late 20th century were about white guy helping out the helpless natives - in reality, most were written by white people for white people and most of the world was a colony of some sorts where western europeans (white) did exercise influence over helpless natives.
For me, I still cant go over the fact that if you dressed colorful, you are part of LGBT community... I wonder if thats influenced by OP's own experiences, as america dresses up a lot more conservatively than Europe... here tight pants and colorful outfits with meticulously done hair are standard, not exception. So for me, it never crossed my mind that the villain is supposed to be gay.
Btw, If I am supposed to turn homophobic and racist because I am shooting at gay, darker skinned villain on some secluded island, then does that mean that FOX News was right all this time? Mind blown.
block tower
Member
yes he looks "white", the guy looks almost like Nathan Drake. Ubisoft white-washed this character, certainly would've never guessed on my own he was of Nepalese decent. not to say people of any ethnicity don't come in a endless variety of sizes, shapes, and hues , but this certainly doesnt jump out as a Nepalese man, especially when i saw the trailer last night. and before the whole "what does a Nepalese man look like" convo is started, again, not to say someone who is Nepalese can't look like this man, but to me this is Ubisoft making a white character and saying he is Nepalese, take that for what for what you will.
As a member of the LGBT community, I'm going to have to say no.
Fuck no, with a capital fuck, we're not police, it's not our job to make developers tailor to our needs and make sure our feeling aren't hurt. If the main character does turn out gay then whatever, he is what he is, but otherwise we got no reason to complain, and if we do complain we're just going to perpetuate even more negative stereotypes about us.
I'm sick and tired of the current gay characters we see in film and videos being these wise know it all. Just look at scott pilgrim, the gay roommate should not be offering relationship advice like some divine wizard of the opposite sex. It's the exact same stereotype of black characters in the 80's and 90s. Almost every character played by morgan freeman was depicted as a wise old, sometimes godly figure. We dont need this shitty pandering.
I think as a community, our job should be to laugh it off, applaude the positive aspects of the character, like that hes a ruthless cunt, and show off that gay people aren't weak, and that these are qualities which are just as necessary. We need to step off of our soapbox and stop acting like we deserve some special treatment, we're not special, and we dont need to be pandered to or pampered.
Fuck no, with a capital fuck, we're not police, it's not our job to make developers tailor to our needs and make sure our feeling aren't hurt. If the main character does turn out gay then whatever, he is what he is, but otherwise we got no reason to complain, and if we do complain we're just going to perpetuate even more negative stereotypes about us.
I'm sick and tired of the current gay characters we see in film and videos being these wise know it all. Just look at scott pilgrim, the gay roommate should not be offering relationship advice like some divine wizard of the opposite sex. It's the exact same stereotype of black characters in the 80's and 90s. Almost every character played by morgan freeman was depicted as a wise old, sometimes godly figure. We dont need this shitty pandering.
I think as a community, our job should be to laugh it off, applaude the positive aspects of the character, like that hes a ruthless cunt, and show off that gay people aren't weak, and that these are qualities which are just as necessary. We need to step off of our soapbox and stop acting like we deserve some special treatment, we're not special, and we dont need to be pandered to or pampered.
This is my first post here and I really don't feel like getting in a long debate about this, but saying this as a straight dude if the antagonist does happen to be gay in this game I'd say the OP's concerns are more than warranted and nailed it. Maybe, from what I've seen at least, most of the people that post at neogaf are more reasonable and open to non-conventional forms of sexuality and gender identities, but from my experiences with other sites, such as major news outlets and the like, and just assuming that these types of gamers, even non-gamers, as individuals likely constitute a significant portion out of however many million there are globally while being tallied into how many will end up playing this game, I'm more than willing to bet it'll reinforce homophobia for a lot of them.
BronsonLee
Member
You reaaaallly make me want to just take a picture of Drake and bleach his hair, don't you
B_Spooky13
Member
I honestly don't see a problem even if he was gay.. (seemed more metro than any thing).
We have straight and gay sex in video games.. Have had children die/murdered.. Racism.. Stereotypes.. Nudity.. Killing off whole civilizations.. Blood, guts and gore.
But we should worry about a man who might be gay or just have a different fashion taste getting his head shot off because he's a bad guy?
We have straight and gay sex in video games.. Have had children die/murdered.. Racism.. Stereotypes.. Nudity.. Killing off whole civilizations.. Blood, guts and gore.
But we should worry about a man who might be gay or just have a different fashion taste getting his head shot off because he's a bad guy?
TheChillyAcademic
Member
THIS x10000
And now, looking at it again, are we really just basing his orientation off what we see and hear? Or has there been any confirmation that he is gay/bi/pan etc?
It's a shame but stereotyping will always exist, it's a form of shorthand really. We still get stereotypical black characters, but i just try to not let them bother me. However, your complaints are still valid and you have every right to express your opinion. I'm just so used to black stereotypes for example again, in all forms of media, that I learned to tune all that bullshit out.
Equality does mean when we shoot a dude in the head at the end of the game, we won't care if he's straight or gay. Do you think it means something else?
Are we still confusing equality, acceptance, and tolerance in 2014?
Red Chocobo
Banned
This is one of the best posts I have ever read in one of these threads. This guy knows.
B_Spooky13
Member
Very well said
Brutalitops
Banned
There would be nothing wrong with shooting a gay person in the head at the end of the game because it's a fucking game. There'd be nothing wrong with shooting ANY person in the head at the end of the game
CaptainSlow
Member
This times infinity. I don't even have any follow up because you said it perfectly. Give this junior a full membership!
block tower
Member
i know, i saw that earlier, but my point was that this protagonist looks like a generic white guy that Ubisoft is just giving a background of Nepalese to fit the story, instead of what they did with Far Cry 3's protagonist . without that context of "Main protagonist returns home", i would've never assumed him to be of Nepalese decent.
None of this is a matter of just personal feelings or simply developers benevolently creating characters that are suitable to politically charged issues or cultural sensitivities, it's more of what type of impact this is going to have on borderline to already homophobic gamers irl. Like the OP used as an example, there are people who will actually expend the amount of time necessary to hunt down minority NPC's in Watch Dogs, just imagine what type of satisfaction that they'll feel in 'shooting a gay villian in the head at the end of the game'.
This isn't a call for censorship, but this if it actually does happen to be the case is just fucking sloppy. And shit, even heterosexual people encounter homophobia in everyday circumstances directed towards friends or even just in the abstract against a group of people according to their sexual orientations. Why shouldn't heterosexual people be capable of taking an openly critical stance towards this just as what most reasonable do towards racism? You ever hear of solidarity?
This isn't a call for censorship, but this if it actually does happen to be the case is just fucking sloppy. And shit, even heterosexual people encounter homophobia in everyday circumstances directed towards friends or even just in the abstract against a group of people according to their sexual orientations. Why shouldn't heterosexual people be capable of taking an openly critical stance towards this just as what most reasonable do towards racism? You ever hear of solidarity?
He really doesn't look like a "generic white guy".
Guess you just can't see it unless it's borderline stereotypical.
SlaughterX
Banned
I am not concerned.
So just like certain people started hunting minorities in Watch Dogs, you don't care that this has the potential to stoke homophobic sentiments by relying on old stereotypes about "gay equals demented" villains, encouraging a segment of players to revel in hunting down and killing the evil gay man, and all while simultaneously having to accept that there are practically no heroic gay men as playable characters in AAA titles (with no attempts by developers) at addressing this glaring imbalance?
I really hope people aren't quoting you with the assumption you speak for all LGBT persons.
Ser Pounce
Member
Thank you. I think this point is the key to it all and I think it comes mostly from laziness and lack of skill/effort. Why create believable, relatable (and you can relate to gay, black, or women characters no matter who you are) characters when you can just make prancing effeminate gay dudes and big-titted weak women like were used to? If creators can break away from lazy commercially-safe stereotypes the issue wouldn't be about the fact that it's the antagonist that's gay, it's just a matter of how the fact that he is gay is used. If it is used respectfully and realistically I don't think there would be any controversy. The thing is, what writer in the video game industry is going to bother building complex emotions or relationships for their homosexual antagonist instead of just having that character impose or flaunt their sexuality to further the fact that this is the bad guy?
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
No. Unless the game comes out and they give a long explanation about how his insanity and murderous tendencies are a biproduct of his homosexuality, it's not an issue in the slightest.
What? I hope you're not referring to the joke /v/ video. Also, what would your solution be, make minorities invincible?
EdibleKnife
Member
People who actually expend that time are already maniacs, pure and simple. If the protagonist was gay, the people in the example wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. Showing them a nice happy go lucky gay protagonist would make the people in the example simply make them put down the game in disgust, not change their outlook. The people in the example are the type to play the Last of Us and say,
"Well Ellie was cool. Just wish she wasn't a lesbian though."
1) You don't speak for me..
2) LOL @ Using Morgan Freeman as an example of the types of roles black actors get. Morgan Freeman gets those roles because that's the type of actor he is. There's a huge issue with the types of roles PoC are allowed to have in television and film. That Morgan Freeman plays "The Wise Old Black Dude" in almost every movie he's in does not change that.
LOL what an awesome, hilarious "joke!" There have been reports of a number of people doing this.
I disagree. I think these people are more common than you realize. The amount of hate and death threats critical female writers/bloggers get, the number of people that have heard racist slurs or "faggot" online... it all points to a sizable portion of gamers being intolerant. There is always this bizarre tendency to insist it's just a "few crazy" people that can't be reasoned with, "so why bother." And I disagree: to prevent more and more of these kinds from popping up now and in the future, games (and all media) need to be more diverse and inclusive. Ignoring the problem has never worked to make progress.
You barely see the guy. Maybe wait for some proper pics before you can determine if he looks Asian enough to you.
People complaining before they know any facts makes them look like an overly sensitive PC crowd who cries foul at everything
Well, the Watch_Dogs example would indicate that these players would hunt down the gay man regardless of whether he was a villain or not.
Etrian Oddity
Member
I strongly disagree. Before the tribal Majini were even shown, N'Gai and a bunch of others were saying it was unsettling how black people were portrayed as rabid animals. Which would normally be an understandable argument. But we were talking about zombies. African zombies.
There was huge backlash at the fact you were shooting black zombies, and that was largely the spoon used to stir the pot.
Not saying there was no reason for some to be upset, but let's be accurate in these points.
You're not the only one who noticed. The main character, while not white, comes about as close as possible and his design is very intentionally made to appeal to the usual demographic. It reminds of me ABC bragging about the "first Latino" bachelor," a guy who is indistinguishable from your average white American or European. They've put in the least amount of effort at "diversity."
People become more tolerant and accepting when they're exposed to differing POVs and the experiences of others. I think this sort of crap would be less common if video games made a better effort at providing diverse playable characters and less stereotypical depictions of minorities. The solution is not to ignore the problem and "let boys be boys" or assume it's a few crazies that pop up randomly.
My hypothetical minority friends who agree with my positions on things are the ones who officially speak for those minorities, bro. We're on the internet, that's how this works.
EdibleKnife
Member
I agree that games should be more diverse and inclusive. But I also hazard that that means characters that buck the trend also deserve expanded roles. I believe having a person outside the straight white male trope in the role of the villain is as viable and important to progress as making them the hero. If you can make an interesting and likable protagonist that is gay (i.e.
Ellie
block tower
Member
THANK YOU! someone sees what i was getting at. it's Ubisofts worst attempt at diversity. only in the context of the protagonist backstory does it remotely seem like he is Nepalese, this character is purposely done to look white but of course people will defend Ubisodt with some sort of excuse. I'm nit giving the studio that did Far Cry 3 the benefit of the doubt lol.
Dude didn't seem stereotypically gay to me. He seemed like a stereotypical flamboyant psychopath. We've seen that type of villian a million times before from Mr. White torturing the cop while dancing to "stuck in the middle with you" to the leader of the Ax gang taking similar pleasure in his evil doings in Kung Fu hustle.
Generic white dude and generic black dude.
Both are actually from India, one from the north and one from the south. I'll let you guess which one is which.
I find the whole "he doesn't look ___ enough" actually borderline racist, because it's like "well, ____ people should look this and that way". In reality it's not all down to "extreme" phenotypes.
Honestly is it starting to remind me of the "is Obama black enough" discussions
Generic white dude and generic black dude.
Both are actually from India, one from the north and one from the south. I'll let you guess which one is which.
I find the whole "he doesn't look ___ enough" actually borderline racist, because it's like "well, ____ people should look this and that way". In reality it's not all down to "extreme" phenotypes.
block tower
Member
Generic white dude and generic black dude.
Both are actually from India, one from the north and one from the south. I'll let you guess which one is which.
I find the whole "he doesn't look ___ enough" actually borderline racist, because it's like "well, ____ people should look this and that way". In reality it's not all down to "extreme" phenotypes.
again if you hadn't told me the guy on the left is of Nepalese decent i would have never arrived at that conclusion on my own. that doesn't make me racist at all, he may be of Nepalese decent but he looks white. Ubisoft clearly chose an unmistakably white looking protagonist on purpose, you'd be naive to think otherwise.
sure looks white to me. certainly didnt look like the antagonist or the other asian characters. dude has pale skin, dark brown eyes, and brown/black hair. looks like generic white male protagonist alright.
The facial features do not look Caucasian at all.
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