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[mj1108]

It's ironic that people hack their PSP firmware to play Nintendo games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The attach ratio is actually a lot closer to 4 (from an NPD perspective at least).




My own expectation is that the benefit provided by people attracted to the platform for emulation and home brew is outweighed significantly by the impact of piracy that hacks allow. So I expect the PSP would not only have survived without hacks, but actually would have performed a lot better software sales wise.

Of course, we'll never know one way or the other.

The big misteries for you devs must be the DS and the GBA, both way easier than PSP to play pirated games over and the games are much smaller too so people can download them in less time than it takes to download a PSP game, still software sales are still really good. Maybe piracy really only helps the market leader (when it is far ahead of the competition in terms of unit sold).

 

[Matix]

CC:FF7 + PSP-Lite/Slim = ?????

Basically, how will thee most anticipated PSP title (even before the handheld launched) and the so called "redesign" that so many have been supposedly holding out for, impact the current status of teh PlayStation Portable?!

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The big misteries for you devs must be the DS and the GBA, both way easier than PSP to play pirated games over and the games are much smaller too so people can download them in less time than it takes to download a PSP game, still software sales are still really good. Maybe piracy really only helps the market leader (when it is far ahead of the competition in terms of unit sold).

It's no big mystery. You need extra hardware that you can't buy in your local Best Buy to pirate on GBA/DS. You don't need anything other than a memory stick, a usb cable, and maybe a particular game to pirate on PSP.

 

[Matix]

It's ironic that people hack their PSP firmware to play Nintendo games.

And Sega Master System, GameGear, Genesis, TurboGraphix 16/CD, Neo-Geo, CPS-1/2, etc.................

 

[Panajev2001a]

Recently I'm playing Castlevania SOTN on the PSP and PS3 simultaneously and I love it. Sony should pimp this feature strongly (maybe even spinning it a bit by saying something like "you basically get two games for the price of one") alongisde the ability to play games on the go and on the TV with the new model. It's weird, but people see those PS2-like games on the system and the first question that comes to their mind is "can I play them on the TV?". Same goes for the vids. Besides, reducing the price of the software is a must IMO. Make them available for download. Introduce a PSP Store. Something like that would do I think. Also, I like how the new model is lighter than the DS Lite. Should help the portability. Not sure I've touched the points relevant to this discussion here, but who cares.

The only thing that sucks is that either you get two PSP's or you have to constantly juggle the PSP between two accounts to play the PSOne games purchased off the PSN Store if at least one of them was purchased in a different Store (thus using another account) as the same PSP cannot be activated simultaneously for more than one account at a time.

 

[Schrade]

And Sega Master System, GameGear, Genesis, TurboGraphix 16/CD, Neo-Geo, CPS-1/2, etc.................

Don't forget Amiga! (Best gaming system pre 1994 ever!)

 

[Galactic Fork]

The real question I would be concerned with is whether PSP would have survived at all had it not been so prone to hacks.

Hmm Actually we might find that out the PSP Slim. If it's more impervious to hacks, that is. Though I am curious what % of the real PSP owning population is actually hacking it. Sure it's popular in gaming forums, but it's also the kind of people who'd go into gaming forums that'd hack their PSPs.

And Sega Master System, GameGear, Genesis, TurboGraphix 16/CD, Neo-Geo, CPS-1/2, etc.................

Don't forget original playstation games.

 

[Matix]

Don't forget Amiga! (Best gaming system pre 1994 ever!)

Don't forget original playstation games.

Yea... I sorta miss my homebrewed PSP.

 

[Tobor]

It's no big mystery. You need extra hardware that you can't buy in your local Best Buy to pirate on GBA/DS. You don't need anything other than a memory stick, a usb cable, and maybe a particular game to pirate on PSP.

Exactly. If someone can explain to me how a $150 worth of hardware from an online dealer is easier than plugging a USB cable in, I'm all ears.

 

[teepo]

all i know is that in a few private torrent sites i hang out in, the psp piracy scene eclipses both the ps2 and ds.

 

[Tideas]

If the PSP sells for $129, it'll sell as much as the DS.

Ppl gotta understand that game-selling = price. Look at the Wii and the 360, and the PS3, and you can totally see it there.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I am not surprised. I am, however, saddened to see how much piracy has tainted that success. Props need to be given to SNE seeing how many units are out there and what price they had. The software is there too. The piracy is weighing it down. Thank God for the new model coming.

 

[Tobor]

I am not surprised. I am, however, saddened to see how much piracy has tainted that success. Props need to be given to SNE seeing how many units are out there and what price they had. The software is there too. The piracy is weighing it down. Thank God for the new model coming.

What the hell is SNE? Do you mean SCE or SCEA?

 

[Davidion]

Exactly. If someone can explain to me how a $150 worth of hardware from an online dealer is easier than plugging a USB cable in, I'm all ears.

Try half that amount.

Yeah my local game store sells the damn mod card for the DS for about the price of the game. While that's not the norm, you're also not dealing with the threat of firmware updates and what have you.

Pirating PSP games maybe a *tad* easier, but to say that pirating DS games is more difficult is already overemphasizing an almost negligible difference in terms of effort and resources involved.

 

[Oblivion]

The revisionist history thing has already been mentioned, so I won't get into that.

As for the reason PSP software sells like shite? How easy is it to pirate games on a PSP? We know games sell terribly, as do umd movies, so the piracy thing makes sense, yet it still would seem surprising that THAT many people would know how to do it.

 

[Tobor]

Try half that amount.

Yeah my local game store sells the damn mod card for the DS for about the price of the game. While that's not the norm, you're also not dealing with the threat of firmware updates and what have you.

Pirating PSP games maybe a *tad* easier, but to say that pirating DS games is more difficult is already overemphasizing a negligible difference in terms of effort and resources involved.

I'm not sure where you live, but there is nowhere you can buy a DS flashcard locally here. And even if it's $75, that's more expensive than free by a large margin. Pirates kind of like free, it's sort of the whole point.

 

[teepo]

What the hell is SNE? Do you mean SCE or SCEA?

stock symbol

 

[Jokeropia]

If the PSP sells for $129, it'll sell as much as the DS.

I very much doubt that. Just look at Japan, the PSP - DS price difference is virtually neglible.

 

[Davidion]

I'm not sure where you live, but there is nowhere you can buy a DS flashcard locally here. And even if it's $75, that's more expensive than free by a large margin. Pirates kind of like free, it's sort of the whole point.

New York City, outer boroughs.

Also, did Lumines sales not skyrocket after the hack was revealed to the public? That's a financial investment right there. Let's not kid ourselves, while pirates like free (and who doesn't?), a relatively small dollar investment isn't going to turn them off of the act.

No, in my opinion, the PSP piracy scene is only successful because it's publicized a hell of a lot more. Whereas the same for the DS is virtually unknown by comparison.

 

[teepo]

New York City, outer boroughs.

Also, did Lumines sales not skyrocket after the hack was revealed to the public? That's a financial investment right there. Let's not kid ourselves, while pirates like free (and who doesn't?), a relatively small dollar investment isn't going to turn them off of the act.

No, in my opinion, the PSP piracy scene is only successful because it's publicized a hell of a lot more. Whereas the same for the DS is virtually unknown by comparison.

you ever been outside of nyc by any chance?

 

[Shaheed79]

When they start selling flashcards at Walmart then the DS will become pirate outerhaven. Until that happens PSP is where it's at. Most of the PSP contingent here seemed to brag about PSP's vast emulating capabilities yet no one thought it would be the systems achilles heel.

If i was a developer and I made 20 games that sold 5 copies on one system and 5 games that sold 20 copies on the other guess which system gets most of my future resources?

 

[Davidion]

you ever been outside of nyc by any chance?

Of course I have.

But judging by the tone of your post, I'd imagine you missed it when I said:

Yeah my local game store sells the damn mod card for the DS for about the price of the game. While that's not the norm, you're also not dealing with the threat of firmware updates and what have you.

 

[Mario]

Try half that amount.

Yeah my local game store sells the damn mod card for the DS for about the price of the game. While that's not the norm, you're also not dealing with the threat of firmware updates and what have you.

Pirating PSP games maybe a *tad* easier, but to say that pirating DS games is more difficult is already overemphasizing an almost negligible difference in terms of effort and resources involved.

I think the difference though is that a large percentage of PSP owners hardware wise have everything they need to pirate as a default of supporting the PSP as a gaming platform and media device (PSP + decent memory stick + USB cable), whereas DS owners have to "go out of their way" to get the necessary bits and pieces. Its a lot easier to just try it out on PSP with stuff you already own than having to make a conscious decision and investment to pirate on DS.

Combine that with the high awareness of piracy generated through gaming media and as a byproduct of the homebrew scene, and its easy to see why PSP piracy eclipses that on DS.

 

[Davidion]

I think the difference though is that a large percentage of PSP owners hardware wise have everything they need to pirate as a default of supporting the PSP as a gaming platform and media device (PSP + decent memory stick + USB cable), whereas DS owners have to "go out of their way" to get the necessary bits and pieces. Its a lot easier to just try it out on PSP with stuff you already own than having to make a conscious decision and investment to pirate on DS.

Combine that with the high awareness of piracy generated through gaming media and as a byproduct of the homebrew scene, and its easy to see why PSP piracy eclipses that on DS.

Of course. It's just that I think that the latter point you made makes a hell of a lot more impact in popularizing the PSP's piracy scene as opposed to the DS's. I mean, when was the last time you ever heard about gaming media even mentioning DS "modding"? When it comes down to it, the only difference between the physical complexity of the PSP vs DS piracy process is a mod card.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think the difference though is that a large percentage of PSP owners hardware wise have everything they need to pirate as a default of supporting the PSP as a gaming platform and media device (PSP + decent memory stick + USB cable), whereas DS owners have to "go out of their way" to get the necessary bits and pieces. Its a lot easier to just try it out on PSP with stuff you already own than having to make a conscious decision and investment to pirate on DS.

You also have to "go out of your way" to buy a big enough Memory Stick ( 1 GB is not nearly enough), to find the correct downgrader that won't brick your PSP, accept that you will have to wait for or miss some official FW features from being fully working, etc... it is also a conscious decision and there is a LOT more stuff for pirates with the GBA + DS areas combined and pirates can download many more games just as easily and with the same bandwidth thus time that it takes them to get less PSP ISO's.

Your second point, about popularity of the PSP pirating scene, is something I can definately agree more on.

Of course, you did say "a large percentage of PSP owners" which could go back to the point I made before... could it ALSO be that a sizeable group of console piracy aware people (thus aware of ISO's tips and tricks for both PSP and DS) make a larger percentage of PSP owners while making a smaller percentage of DS owners ?

I might be totally wrong on this, but the differences between piracy phenomenon on first place consoles vs piracy phenomenon on more distant competitors are morbidly interesting...

 

[evil ways]

Not that surprised, in fact I'm more surprised at the number of casual PSP owners I've encountered who have their PSP hacked to play "old games".

 

[Deleted member 12837]

You also have to "go out of your way" to buy a big enough Memory Stick ( 1 GB is not nearly enough), to find the correct downgrader that won't brick your PSP, accept that you will have to wait for or miss some official FW features from being fully working, etc... i

Huh? You can install custom firmware with the little 32 MB card that used to come with the system and pirate older systems to your heart's content. You don't need big memory sticks at all. To say that 1 GB is not enough is just ridiculous. Bricking PSPs at this point isn't nearly the threat that it used to be, and the majority of PSPs out there can be downgraded very easily. It's only the newest models that are a bit tougher. I can't believe people are actually trying to claim that DS homebrew is at the same level of easiness as PSP homebrew.

And the wait time between custom firmware and official firmware is very short now, and most of the "new" features in new firmwares have been in the custom firmware for a long time, like loading off of the memory stick.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Huh? You can install custom firmware with the little 32 MB card that used to come with the system and pirate older systems to your heart's content. You don't need big memory sticks at all.

How many PSP game ISO's will people fit in their 32 MB Memory Pro Duo stick ?

 

[Deleted member 12837]

How many PSP game ISO's will people fit in their 32 MB Memory Pro Duo stick ?

Since when do hacked PSPs only play pirated PSP games? What about the numerous other systems that can be pirated? We're talking about ease of piracy in general here, at least that's how I understood it.

Even so, 1 GB is enough to fit 1-2 PSP games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I can't believe people are actually trying to claim that DS homebrew is at the same level of easiness as PSP homebrew.

Does it really take many clicks with a web browser to find and order a DS Flash Cart or a GBA Flash Card and then download ISO's like crazy ?!? You make it seem like pirates have an incredibly tougher time running unsigned code on the DS or the GBA than doing the same on PSP.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

It does not take many clicks with a web browser to find and order a DS Flash Cart or a GBA Flash Card and then download ISO's like crazy. You make it seem like pirates have an incredibly tougher time running unsigned code on the DS or the GBA than doing the same on PSP.

One involves investing money, the other doesn't. A lot of people won't even bother with DS homebrew because they have to buy something they've never used before. They don't want to risk wasting the money. With a PSP, everything you need comes in the box and there's no harm in experimenting.

edit: I'm not saying that the DS homebrew is difficult, but you have to admit that the PSP is indeed easier simply because it requires no external hardware.

 

[TTP]

DS games piracy is low because DS users are non-gamers to begin with

 

[titiklabingapat]

It is a complete failure both as a gaming and media device. I say complete failure for both because most probably do buy it for the music/videos and half a million a month or less is nowhere near the iPod's and failure as a gaming device because...have you seen the software numbers? Terrible.

 

[DyTonic]

It is a complete failure both as a gaming and media device. I say complete failure for both because most probably do buy it for the music/videos and half a million a month or less is nowhere near the iPod's and failure as a gaming device because...have you seen the software numbers? Terrible.

Speak for yourself, I still play mine everyday and use both features.

 

[Tideas]

I very much doubt that. Just look at Japan, the PSP - DS price difference is virtually neglible.

Really? How much is the PSP selling in Japan right now and how much for the dslite?

 

[RobertM]

I don't want PS3 to turn the same way the PSP did, even though I still have tabs to see what people can pull of.

My psp is a PS1, NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, calculator, GPS, MS paint. I do play some PSP games such as MGSO, Dexter, SF: DM, Lumines, GTA VLC, Tales of Eternia. I think sometimes PSP games go under the radar, look how much hype DS games are getting especially here on gaf, PSP? Crickets. PSP really needs some killer app really bad, Crisis Core I'm looking at you.

 

[Jokeropia]

Really? How much is the PSP selling in Japan right now and how much for the dslite?

On Amazon.co.jp you pay 20,312 yen for a PSP vs. 16,800 yen for the DS. That's about ~$30 difference, do you really think it explains why DS sells 150k per week while PSP does 30k? Heck, to buy a new color DS you have to pay 22,280 yen and you can get PSP's used for 14,800 yen.

 

[Dilbert]

Is there any other option? I mean there's only 2 portables in the market, so what are you left with if you don't want a DS? This is where I think the PSP has lucked out -- if MS had decided to launch a portable (and managed to do so successfully), Sony would be pretty screwed right now, IMO.

So, in other words, everyone who bought a PSP only did so because they didn't like Nintendo's portable systems? What possible rationale do you have to back up that claim?

 

[Lightning]

Yes.

When the PSP was first released I was really negative on it because of the expensive price but has quite good hardware sales and is making a nice profit for Sony at this present moment and time. It also has some really nice games that I will be picking up.

 

[masud]

Early on in the systems lifespan, yes. But I know I modded mine about 4 months ago (to play PSX games) and that was a bitch of a time. Have the recent firmwares even been cracked? I mean there's so much crap to go through I'd say maybe 3% of buyers these days are getting it for the homebrew aspect.

:lol :lol :lol

No.