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Is it just me or was 2004 to 2009 some of the dullest years in gaming.
- Thread starter mdzapeer
- Start date
Lol what? These are some great FPSs!
Personally, it was the 2001 - 2006 period that I wasn't really too hot on. Nintendo's first party output was lacking, and games like GTA became incredibly prominent. By that, I don't mean I had an issue with open-world games, but rather, GTA helped usher in a trend of more gritty, real world based gaming straying away from the imaginative, fantasy type games that were prominent up until that point.
Thankfully, while games like that are still being made, the GTA style has been far less rampant since the PS3/360/Wii days.
Thankfully, while games like that are still being made, the GTA style has been far less rampant since the PS3/360/Wii days.
Alright I'm back.
For a while I've had the feeling that 1998-2005 is the best era of 3D games, both on console and on PC. Roughly this corresponds to the PS2 era, but I include the last bit of the N64/PS1 era too.
1998 is still arguably the most influential year in terms of what games we're playing today. We got stuff like Ocarina of Time, Thief 1, Metal Gear Solid, StarCraft 1, Half-Life, and so-on. A lot of games that started franchises or game design trends we see to this day. It was the point where game designers were finally starting to figure out 3D games. It was the beginning of the era of refinement we saw during the PS2 years and the corresponding years on PC.
Another reason I think 1998-2005 was the best is that's when technology and budgets were in just the right place in relation to one another. Studios that were big enough to make big games but not so big they had to sell millions of copies, were able to make games with budgets big enough for respectable production values but not so big they had to sell multiple millions of copies, and still have top-of-the-line graphics. It's hard as hell to make a game today that feels as deep and engrossing as Deus Ex 1 or System Shock 2 with fully modern graphics. The budget would take it beyond the addressable audience for that kind of game versus another F2P shooter.
Around 2005 is when tech and budgets started to become too much. Hollywood-ization hadn't totally set in, but devs spent the next couple years figuring out new tech. We started to see the benefits of devs coming around to that new tech in 2007 with STALKER, Crysis, Call of Duty 4, or Bioshock. By that point though, the whole industry went after COD4 despite the potential leaps forward Crysis and STALKER presented. Budgets and tech forced publishers to follow the leader after that which killed developers and squeezed down genres on consoles that weren't action game and sports games. The greater economy probably had a lot to do with it as well. This is the real period I think was somewhat dull. There were bright spots like Far Cry 2, Uncharted 2, and Demon's Souls, but compared to 1998-2005, the retail console sector in the post--2007 period was filled with a lot of formulaic blockbuster stuff.
2011 was a high point though, with games like Deus Ex Human Revolution, the first Dark Souls and Skyrim. Other games started to signify a change in the tech too like The Witcher 2, Battlefield 3, and Crysis 2. In the years immediately following that though to me it felt like the AAA industry was having a hard time figuring out what it wanted to do. Very few big retail games in 2012, 2013, and 2014 interested me, maybe Dishonored 1 and Wolfenstein: The New Order, but I think I spent more time on indie games in that period. That's when indies started to really evolve beyond 2D platformers, especially on PC.
Since 2015 things have turned a corner in my opinion. A lot of it is probably the global economy getting better, but I feel like big developers have finally figured out where they want to go creatively. They've learned lessons from previous years and the influence of Call of Duty has worn off. The Witcher 3, Metal Gear Solid V, and Zelda Breath of the Wild are all hallmarks of sandbox games. I'm seeing so many other big-budget games that are good-to-great like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Dishonored 2, DOOM, or Horizon: Zero Dawn. Online service-oriented games have found a really good groove with Overwatch, Rainbow Six: Siege, Destiny, or Final Fantasy XIV. Japanese developers have finally figured things out, getting their production pipeline in order for modern tech and borrowing just the things from western developers we'd been wishing for them to for the last 10 years without screwing things up. They've done this with MGSV, BOTW, and Resident Evil 7. This year has seen an impressive selection of Japanese games that remind us of the PS2 era like Yakuza 0, Gravity Rush 2, Persona 5, Nioh, or Nier Automata. Even more is on the way like Ace Combat 7, Tekken 7, Ni No Kuni II, and Marvel Infinite.
We're not all the way back to where we were in the 1998-2005 period but it's feeling like developers and publishers have gotten back a lot of what they had during that period.
For a while I've had the feeling that 1998-2005 is the best era of 3D games, both on console and on PC. Roughly this corresponds to the PS2 era, but I include the last bit of the N64/PS1 era too.
1998 is still arguably the most influential year in terms of what games we're playing today. We got stuff like Ocarina of Time, Thief 1, Metal Gear Solid, StarCraft 1, Half-Life, and so-on. A lot of games that started franchises or game design trends we see to this day. It was the point where game designers were finally starting to figure out 3D games. It was the beginning of the era of refinement we saw during the PS2 years and the corresponding years on PC.
Another reason I think 1998-2005 was the best is that's when technology and budgets were in just the right place in relation to one another. Studios that were big enough to make big games but not so big they had to sell millions of copies, were able to make games with budgets big enough for respectable production values but not so big they had to sell multiple millions of copies, and still have top-of-the-line graphics. It's hard as hell to make a game today that feels as deep and engrossing as Deus Ex 1 or System Shock 2 with fully modern graphics. The budget would take it beyond the addressable audience for that kind of game versus another F2P shooter.
Around 2005 is when tech and budgets started to become too much. Hollywood-ization hadn't totally set in, but devs spent the next couple years figuring out new tech. We started to see the benefits of devs coming around to that new tech in 2007 with STALKER, Crysis, Call of Duty 4, or Bioshock. By that point though, the whole industry went after COD4 despite the potential leaps forward Crysis and STALKER presented. Budgets and tech forced publishers to follow the leader after that which killed developers and squeezed down genres on consoles that weren't action game and sports games. The greater economy probably had a lot to do with it as well. This is the real period I think was somewhat dull. There were bright spots like Far Cry 2, Uncharted 2, and Demon's Souls, but compared to 1998-2005, the retail console sector in the post--2007 period was filled with a lot of formulaic blockbuster stuff.
2011 was a high point though, with games like Deus Ex Human Revolution, the first Dark Souls and Skyrim. Other games started to signify a change in the tech too like The Witcher 2, Battlefield 3, and Crysis 2. In the years immediately following that though to me it felt like the AAA industry was having a hard time figuring out what it wanted to do. Very few big retail games in 2012, 2013, and 2014 interested me, maybe Dishonored 1 and Wolfenstein: The New Order, but I think I spent more time on indie games in that period. That's when indies started to really evolve beyond 2D platformers, especially on PC.
Since 2015 things have turned a corner in my opinion. A lot of it is probably the global economy getting better, but I feel like big developers have finally figured out where they want to go creatively. They've learned lessons from previous years and the influence of Call of Duty has worn off. The Witcher 3, Metal Gear Solid V, and Zelda Breath of the Wild are all hallmarks of sandbox games. I'm seeing so many other big-budget games that are good-to-great like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Dishonored 2, DOOM, or Horizon: Zero Dawn. Online service-oriented games have found a really good groove with Overwatch, Rainbow Six: Siege, Destiny, or Final Fantasy XIV. Japanese developers have finally figured things out, getting their production pipeline in order for modern tech and borrowing just the things from western developers we'd been wishing for them to for the last 10 years without screwing things up. They've done this with MGSV, BOTW, and Resident Evil 7. This year has seen an impressive selection of Japanese games that remind us of the PS2 era like Yakuza 0, Gravity Rush 2, Persona 5, Nioh, or Nier Automata. Even more is on the way like Ace Combat 7, Tekken 7, Ni No Kuni II, and Marvel Infinite.
We're not all the way back to where we were in the 1998-2005 period but it's feeling like developers and publishers have gotten back a lot of what they had during that period.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
okay I wanna see you substantiate this shit
StrategyFan
Member
the cost of making a marketable game exponentially increased when moving from low-poly to photorealism
TheGreyHulk
Member
I loved that whole period. It was pretty awesome going into the HD era and an era where dual stick controls started to "normalize" and games felt better to control.
I would name games but nah... we all know the damn games. Shit was amazing.
I would name games but nah... we all know the damn games. Shit was amazing.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I don't even want to imagine such a thing.
Crazy Diamond
Member
Sometimes I wonder why people are on my ignore list, then I remove them from said list and find out.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
08-11 was particularly awful IMO.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Why is it a backfire? It shows and different perspectives are.
Assassin's Creed 1 for example, compare its gameplay systems to its sequel? GTA IV to GTA V, Doom 1+2 to Doom 3 and then again to Doom 2016.
Again Far Cry 2 compared to 3 or even 1 (even though it came out 2004). You cant exactly have a time period set, there are outliers always. But the general trend pattern can be seen and this how I remember it.
And this is only comparing sequels, if compare within a genre a similar pattern can be seen.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
This thread is naturally going to get resistance. You're describing a period of gaming in which people came of age. For many younger people, playing Modern Warfare or Mass Effect on Xbox 360 is their "classic arcade", "16-bit console war" or "PS2 era", or whatever your personal gaming golden age is. And I'm not saying it's all youthful nostalgia. If your vision of gaming is deathmatching FPS games with your buddies through party chat online, I'm sure it was a dream.
But I don't think the OP is that wrong in that for a lot of us older/colorful-fantasy-game-loving/Japanese-game-raised types, it was broadly a down period in gaming history. And with the recent resurgence of these types of games on PS4, the late 2000s feels like the odd era out for our tastes.
And also..... no one on earth likes fucking VGcats.
But I don't think the OP is that wrong in that for a lot of us older/colorful-fantasy-game-loving/Japanese-game-raised types, it was broadly a down period in gaming history. And with the recent resurgence of these types of games on PS4, the late 2000s feels like the odd era out for our tastes.
And also..... no one on earth likes fucking VGcats.
the_batman
Banned
the fuck? right off the top of my head i think of Uncharted 2 and MGS4.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Oh that's not controversial....
the_batman
Banned
why would it be? it's a masterpiece
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Lots of people dislike it. I know it has lots of fans, but it's the definition of "divisive".
AC2 was released in 2009...
petran79
Banned
But those were rated games. In our era rated games were only on computers. Consoles were very protective. Now they dont care at all. One reason GTA and all those games became popular by targetting kids.
No.
I was 14-19 during the period you mentioned and remember playing a lot of incredible games from God of War 2, San Andreas, Uncharted, Modern Warfare, Portal, Dead Space, MGS 4 etc.
Tons of great games during that era, even if the industry as a whole went more for realism and dirty environments according to your comic.
I was 14-19 during the period you mentioned and remember playing a lot of incredible games from God of War 2, San Andreas, Uncharted, Modern Warfare, Portal, Dead Space, MGS 4 etc.
Tons of great games during that era, even if the industry as a whole went more for realism and dirty environments according to your comic.
Octavianus
Banned
Honestly, yes. It's not like there aren't any games that came out during that time that i'm fond of, but they're very few and far between.
Not at all. The majority of those years haven't done that.
Mario Kart 8 and Bayonetta 2 came out in 2014
Earthpainting
Member
For me it was 2008 to 2014 that wasn't all that. Several years where I'd only have a few games per year that I'd care about. Not really being into shooty games or competitive games is a big contributor to this though. It makes me appreciate 2017 all the more.
Lanrutcon
Member
Ok, list em. I'm curious and pretty sure that you'll find plenty willing to dispute your claim. This would be the thread for that discussion.
This is a very well put together and gets across what I intended. Are you a writer?
Monocle
Member
Yeah they can, if the opinions include verifiable claims about the world.
"I enjoyed this!" can't be wrong, but saying "the games from all these different years were so dull!" can be challenged by appealing to the consensus of other players, and maybe even reviewers. Or by establishing what makes a game "dull" and finding counterexamples from the time period we're talking about.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Can we, as a GAF Hivemind, come together to ban OP?
I wouldn't include 2004, but the large part of the last-generation of consoles was pretty terrible for several reasons.
It marked a period where mid-sized publishers and developers were going out of business. The AAA space consolidated into a few large companies, where game budgets increased and risks became all too few and far between.
In part due to the aforementioned, but also due to changes in Japan itself, what once was an industry (on consoles) heavily dominated by the country, lost much of its influence from it.
Many PC developers were forced to go out of business, were bought out to awful fates, or started to adapt by targeting consoles as well, which in large part meant a significant decline in game quality to appeal to the masses.
Thankfully, through the ease of publishing (on Steam for example) and the advent of crowd-funding, among other reasons, much has changed in the past few years.
It marked a period where mid-sized publishers and developers were going out of business. The AAA space consolidated into a few large companies, where game budgets increased and risks became all too few and far between.
In part due to the aforementioned, but also due to changes in Japan itself, what once was an industry (on consoles) heavily dominated by the country, lost much of its influence from it.
Many PC developers were forced to go out of business, were bought out to awful fates, or started to adapt by targeting consoles as well, which in large part meant a significant decline in game quality to appeal to the masses.
Thankfully, through the ease of publishing (on Steam for example) and the advent of crowd-funding, among other reasons, much has changed in the past few years.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I don't see anything impressive there. Like, an Overwatch ripoff? Pfft. And Medal of Honor looks like some shitty CoD clone, right? And Crysis was totes a tech demo. Metroid? More like Halo 9!
Fright Zone
Member
It was for me. That period was when I fell out of love for gaming.
Main reason for me being that this was when fighting games laid dormant.
The last arcade fighter I was really into was King of Fighters XI in 04/05 and then the arcade scene here completely died, and fighting games were basically on life support until SFIV.
My PS2 collected dust during this period, all the character action games popular at the time just weren't for me. I played the GTA games a llittle and made it half way through FFXII but that was about.
Wasn't til I got a PS3 and SFIV in early 09 that gaming made a comeback in my life.
Main reason for me being that this was when fighting games laid dormant.
The last arcade fighter I was really into was King of Fighters XI in 04/05 and then the arcade scene here completely died, and fighting games were basically on life support until SFIV.
My PS2 collected dust during this period, all the character action games popular at the time just weren't for me. I played the GTA games a llittle and made it half way through FFXII but that was about.
Wasn't til I got a PS3 and SFIV in early 09 that gaming made a comeback in my life.
SolarMystic
Member
Someone didn't own a Ps2, 360 or Wii.
I disagree with the op. It has the endgame of the ps2/gc/xb-era, which was the best of that gen by far (2004-2006). And it has the Wii in it's prime in terms of family fun (2006-2009) and also features the start of when developers really got hold of HD-gaming on the 360 and PS3 (2008-2009). Furthermore, it was also the period of both the DS and PSP, which had fantastic line-ups. And in regards of PC gaming, it also covers the period where we still got frequent bleeding edge tech games (doom, hl, fc, crysis) and probably the height of MMO gaming (WoW in particular).
Some examples that rank high to very high in my GOAT's:
-Resident Evil 4 (2005)
-Yakuza 2 (2006)
-Shadow of the Colossus (2005)
-Okami (2006)
-Metal Gear Solid 3 (2004)
-Uncharted 2 (2009)
-The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (2006)
-Super Mario Galaxy (2007)
-Half-Life 2 (2004)
-Fallout 3 (2008)
-Psychonauts (2005)
-God of War II (2007)
-Bioshock (2007)
-Ratchet and Clank 3: Up Your Arsenal (2004).
Etc.
Some examples that rank high to very high in my GOAT's:
-Resident Evil 4 (2005)
-Yakuza 2 (2006)
-Shadow of the Colossus (2005)
-Okami (2006)
-Metal Gear Solid 3 (2004)
-Uncharted 2 (2009)
-The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (2006)
-Super Mario Galaxy (2007)
-Half-Life 2 (2004)
-Fallout 3 (2008)
-Psychonauts (2005)
-God of War II (2007)
-Bioshock (2007)
-Ratchet and Clank 3: Up Your Arsenal (2004).
Etc.
Octavianus
Banned
It would be easier to name the years tthat did have at least one game that I'd consider great / classic so i'll do that:
2002: Metroid Prime, Metroid Fusion, Wind Waker, Super Monkey Ball 2, Silent Hill 2
2004: Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, Rome: Total War, Half-Life 2, Metroid: Zero Mission
2007: Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario
Now just to be clear there are other games both during the years listed and other years of that period that I enjoyed playing through once and then never again, but I wouldn't call them stellar.
No I don't think I'm not forgetting anything.
Magic Mushroom
Member
A year that has Bayonetta 2 and Tropical Freeze, one of the 2D greats, cannot be a shit year.
Octavianus
Banned
Shit I can't believe I forgot to mention Tropical Freeze in my earlier response to that same post. Best 2D platformer in well over a decade.
TheContact
Member
Maybe for you it was OP but 2004-2009 was world of Warcrafts prime years. To me, it was one of the best years of gaming
Looking at the games you list, you probably are. 2004 alone had
Half-life 2
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Burnout 3
Maximo 2
Ninja Gaiden
Final Fantasy XI
Rallisport Challenge 2
Hitman Contracts
The Chronicles of Riddick
Thief: Deadly SHadows
Tales of Symphonia
Pikmin 2
Gradius V
Warhammer 40 000: Dawn of War
Katamari Damacy
Rome: Total War
Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Syberia II
Paper Mario: A Thousand Year Door
Ace Combat 5
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror
Boktai 2
Ratchet & Clank 3: Up Your Arsenal
Halo 2
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines
Metal Gear Solid 3
Baten Kaitos
Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic 2
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
Viewtiful Joe 2
+ many others
Quite a few of those are considered some of the best in their genre and others showcase some pretty neat, imaginative new ideas (i.e. Katamari Damacy) so yeah, you are forgetting or ignoring games.
Octavianus
Banned
No I didn't care for most of those
TheRedSnifit
Member
Yawn. Only naming timeless classics here. No Google allowed, only ones I can name off the top of my head.
2004: San Andreas, World of Warcraft, Metal Gear Solid 3, Unreal Tournament '04, Battlefield 'Nam, Pikmin 2, Metroid Prime 2, Ace Attorney 3.
2005: Resident Evil 4 (aka the greatest single player game ever), FEAR, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, CoD 2, Condemned: Criminal Origins, Half Life 2.
2006: Dead Rising, Twilight Princess, Rainbow Six Vegas, Half Life 2: Episode 1, Okami.
2007: Team Fortress 2 (aka the greatest multiplayer shooter). CoD 4, The Darkness, Crysis, STALKER, Half Life 2 Ep. 2, Halo 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Mass Effect, Metroid Prime 3, Quake Wars, Contra 4, Portal, Advance Wars DoR.
2008: CoD 5, Dead Space, Smash Bros. Brawl, Far Cry 2, Left 4 Dead, Mirror's Edge, Saints Row 2, Crysis Warhead.
2009: Chinatown Wars, Minecraft, Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Demon's Souls.
If you dislike most or all of these, you're probably a terrible person.