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[MidnightRider]

I don't see why the Wii has anything to worry about........

 

[DrGAKMAN]

There's a bunch of discussions regarding Wii's successor in next-gen technology threads since it's expected to launch first.

I'm not talking about when either.

Those things always end up dying down (so I have to move the discussion to other places to get more people talking) and/or talking about Multicore 1.3 Gigahertz CPU's and Direct X 11 GU's...not anything *really* interesting.

Since I've got you...what do you think, evolution or revolution?

Anyway I think Nintendo will go for a super Wii type concept - similar but improved motion controls - and increased hardware power. I don't think they will try and revolutionize the industry again by trying something as experimental as the Wii, if they do I can see them falling flat on their faces. I do think that they will make use of the power in ways other than increased graphical effects and fidelity, it will be in software that they will try and head for blue waters - with their current crop of games they are already there anyway, 2D platformers, 3D platformers - not exactly a crowded market.

Thanks.

See, I'm sorta stuck on the idea that it'll be another revolution in some way (though not as big as the Wii was). With 3DS as a pattern, Wii's successor has to be more than an evolution 'cos 3D is kind of a big deal (if only just an optional visual extra that can be turned off). If it's a visual trick/gimmick/extra (like 3D on 3DS) it may be too radical to have it anything beyond optinal or extra...like my idea of a projector that can shine an image onto any surface in the room, that might be "too much" and some people would want to turn such a feature off (like some who would want to tone down or turn off 3D on the 3DS) making it more useless to games than 3D to a one-eyed-man.

So beyond something that's just visual or a refinement of what's already out there I think a next-gen WiiMote with a bunch of new features would be ideal. Haptic Feedback, better layout for classic (horizontal) control, a personal screen, pressure sensitive grips (level of squeezing can be measured through air pocket sensors on the skin of the controller), vitality sensor built-in. Having the game "touch you back" could be seen as a revolution and really show the flaws in controller-less gaming as this interface requires you to feel it to believe it.

 

[Vizion28]

I find it strange many gamers think the next Wii will be released or rushed to be released based on better graphics when that wasn't what made the Wii the top selling console this generation. You would think by now gamers would get the idea that the mass market doesn't care much for HD graphics.

It is a given the next Wii will have better graphics but the main focus will be a new gimmick or 'catch' to set itself apart from the competition.

Expect the next Wii to be an utter failure if they listen to the vocal minority. But I think Nintendo is too smart for that these days.

 

[comedy bomb]

It is a given the next Wii will have better graphics but the main focus will be a new gimmick or 'catch' to set itself apart from the competition.

I'm starting to wonder if the vitality sensor isn't being held back to be built into the next home console controller.

 

[Rich!]

I'm actually struggling to think of any Wii games that are out next year. Zelda's the only one I can think of.

Is that it? Really?

 

[Owzers]

I'm actually struggling to think of any Wii games that are out next year. Zelda's the only one I can think of.

Is that it? Really?

Nintendo will surely have something else for next year, but most big third party games are on ps3/360/pc. Nintendo could also localize The Last Story and Xenoblade but i don't think Nintendo cares really.

 

[antonz]

I find it strange many gamers think the next Wii will be released or rushed to be released based on better graphics when that wasn't what made the Wii the top selling console this generation. You would think by now gamers would get the idea that the mass market doesn't care much for HD graphics.

It is a given the next Wii will have better graphics but the main focus will be a new gimmick or 'catch' to set itself apart from the competition.

Expect the next Wii to be an utter failure if they listen to the vocal minority. But I think Nintendo is too smart for that these days.

I think Nintendo can clearly go the power route and still dominate because Nintendo has perfected the get the casual market approach. Now they simply have to make it so their console can play nice with the others for games and they can dominate even more.

If Nintendo makes a competative machine graphically to the PS4 etc and they remember how to appeal to the casual Nintendo will literally turn the market into a battle of exclusives.

I would have little reason to own another console if the WiiHD plays all the multiplatform games as the others in similar graphic fidelity. I enjoy Nintendo 1st party on average more than the others.

 

[comedy bomb]

Nintendo will surely have something else for next year, but most big third party games are on ps3/360/pc. Nintendo could also localize The Last Story and Xenoblade but i don't think Nintendo cares really.

Mario Sports Mix is still due, as is The Conduit 2. I suppose there will be the 2012 sports titles as well.

Who knows on The Last Story, Xenoblade, Pikmin 3 and DQX.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I'm actually struggling to think of any Wii games that are out next year. Zelda's the only one I can think of.

Is that it? Really?

Last Story, Lost in Shadow, Mario Sports Mix.

...That's about it.

 

[wazoo]

I'm actually struggling to think of any Wii games that are out next year. Zelda's the only one I can think of.

Is that it? Really?

De Blob2, Tron, ??

+ anything with a licence or EA yearly release, GH 7.2, ...

 

[Rich!]

Last Story, Lost in Shadow, Mario Sports Mix.

...That's about it.

Lost in Shadow came out last month (oct 15th) here in the UK, named 'A Shadow's Tale'. Last Story may not get localised, and Mario Sports Mix is hardly going to be a big game.

So uh, there really is just Zelda.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I don't really care since most likely I'm getting a Wii just now around Christmas. Which means FUCKTON of awesome games at bargain prices!

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I'm starting to wonder if the vitality sensor isn't being held back to be built into the next home console controller.

It would be cool if the bottom of the next Wii's controller could sense it instead of a dongle.

 

[Massa]

I don't really care since most likely I'm getting a Wii just now around Christmas. Which means FUCKTON of awesome games at bargain prices!

I have bad news for you: Nintendo doesn't drop the price on their games. :-(

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Lost in Shadow came out last month (oct 15th) here in the UK, named 'A Shadow's Tale'. Last Story may not get localised, and Mario Sports Mix is hardly going to be a big game.

So uh, there really is just Zelda.

I gotta admit, it hasn't been this bad going into a new year in a while. However, that means nothing. I'm sure by GDC, we'll know about quite a few Wii games on the horizon. At the very least, E3 will definitely have something.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I have bad news for you: Nintendo doesn't drop the price on their games. :-(

There are always auction sites.

 

[Why would you do that?]

I'm actually struggling to think of any Wii games that are out next year. Zelda's the only one I can think of.

Is that it? Really?

Dragon Quest X (I think) and Rhythm Heaven. I know I'm looking forward to more Rhythm Heaven...

Anyways, Nintendo likes to announce their games only a few months in advance. DKC Returns and Epic Yarn, for instance, were announced and released this year. Same for some 3rd Party games like Goldeneye and Sonic Colors.

I'm guessing that the games for the beginning of 2011 were already announced and the games for the end of 2011 will be announced at or before E3.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

The major games of 2011 include the following

Confirmed

Zelda Skyward Sword
Rhythm Heaven Wii
Mario Sports Mix
The Last Story (JPN)

Unconfirmed

Dragon Quest X (would probably not come to the US & EU until 2011)
Pikmin 3 (Probably moved to next console)
Wii Relax (Probably moved to next console)
Xenoblade (US & EU)
The Last Story (US & EU)

It's looking pretty grim...

This year is gonna be all about the 3DS.

 

[wazoo]

I have bad news for you: Nintendo doesn't drop the price on their games. :-(

I have good news for you : there are good and (now) cheap 3rd party games on Wii.

 

[Vinci]

I'd try to co-develop and co-market Madden/FIFA games with EA after the first iterations failed.

Actually, Madden initially did pretty well on the Wii. The problem isn't that Nintendo didn't step in and help fund it, it was that EA suddenly decided treating everyone who owned the system like an infant was the way to go. The series collapsed from relevance the more they treated Wii gamers like children.

Encourage Capcom to develop Resident Evil 4-2 (there was a market for that kind of game on the market... they should have tried to expand it).

You mean the rather impressive sales of RE4 Wii Edition wasn't encouragement enough?

A couple more blockbusters on the platform would make tremendous difference in the end. Now, Nintendo DID make some efforts like that - MH3 or DQX would be the best examples.

How would it have made a difference? I'm legitimately interested. Say they pony up cash left and right to get X, Y, and Z on the platform. The games were there. They sold. The 3rd parties, back when there was an audience, totally bungled the whole damn thing - by choice, by stereotyping for no damn good reason what the audience wanted. Their title didn't sell like Nintendo's? Who cares? Nobody's games sell like Nintendo's. It's the #1, most successful development company in the world. This isn't anything new.

Luckily for them going to next gen they should enjoy multiplatform games by default as long as they include DX10 (or newer) compatible GPU, so that's one problem that's solved for them.

Here's hoping.

 

[DEADEVIL]

Bring back the originator..XAVIX

 

[marc^o^]

And here comes a new challenger!

 

[Vinci]

Enough fucking bundles, Nintendo. People want new shit. Get on it.

 

[poppabk]

See, I'm sorta stuck on the idea that it'll be another revolution in some way (though not as big as the Wii was).

It doesn't have to be hardware though. Extra power brings with it new possibilities for software beyond just an iterative improvement in graphics. Maybe they use a sophisticated AI and voice recognition so that your console becomes an 'individual' rather than a piece of equipment - Milo as a UI - but with Nintendo's feel and polish. There are a lot of interesting avenues that are opened up by having more processing power and Nintendo are the ones most apt to pursue them.

 

[DEADEVIL]

And here comes a new challenger!

Two words..Jackie Chan..

One console..XAVIX..Check and mate:lol

 

[Adam Prime]

Enough fucking bundles, Nintendo. People want new shit. Get on it.

I think you confusing people with "main stream gamers". Main stream gamers want new stuff from Nintendo. The general Wii audience is perfectly content with what they're getting.

 

[Zoramon089]

Why are people assuming that the games we know about are the only games in the pipeline for the Wii? It's clear Nintendo has gotten into the habit of announcing games only months before their release. I'd wait for the GDC to see if they announce anything for early 2010

 

[szaromir]

You mean the rather impressive sales of RE4 Wii Edition wasn't encouragement enough?

How would it have made a difference? I'm legitimately interested. Say they pony up cash left and right to get X, Y, and Z on the platform. The games were there. They sold. The 3rd parties, back when there was an audience, totally bungled the whole damn thing - by choice, by stereotyping for no damn good reason what the audience wanted. Their title didn't sell like Nintendo's? Who cares? Nobody's games sell like Nintendo's. It's the #1, most successful development company in the world. This isn't anything new.

I'd say Nintendo should have stepped up at some point and try to convince publishers to treat the audience like every other platform out there, providing support if necessary. They can do that with Dragon Quest on DS, why couldn't they have done it on Wii several years earlier? Microsoft was supporting Japanese developers until pretty much all of them agreed to support 360 on day 1 with their future releases. It took many bombs, but now Namco, Squeenix, Konami, Capcom are all doing PS360, not PS3 games with little encouragment from MS.

As for RE4-2 for Wii, I don't know why it didn't happen, overall Capcom made many boneheaded decisions in the last 3 years. But Nintendo should have pursued that audience as well and they did nothing.

 

[Vinci]

I think you confusing people with "main stream gamers". Main stream gamers want new stuff from Nintendo. The general Wii audience is perfectly content with what they're getting.

To hell they are. The mainstream audience was responsible for propelling Nintendo to ridiculous levels of sales. They want more new things, and Nintendo isn't offering anything innovative. DKCR, as happy as I am to see it, doesn't qualify.

I'd say Nintendo should have stepped up at some point and try to convince publishers to treat the audience like every other platform out there, providing support if necessary.

By doing what exactly? Be specific.

They can do that with Dragon Quest on DS, why couldn't they have done it on Wii several years earlier?

Dragon Quest goes to the system with the largest userbase. That was the DS. It wasn't going to go anywhere else.

Microsoft was supporting Japanese developers until pretty much all of them agreed to support 360 on day 1 with their future releases. It took many bombs, but now Namco, Squeenix, Konami, Capcom are all doing PS360, not PS3 games with little encouragment from MS.

You're assuming that MS and Nintendo started in the same situation with the same circumstances. They didn't. Not at the beginning of this generation, not in the middle, and not now. It was far easier for MS to convince SE, Konami, and Capcom to make games for the 360 because it fit with the kinds of games those companies wanted to make anyway. How do you get them to make a version for an SD system without the online infrastructure that MS offered? And to be fair, each of those companies brought out games for the Wii - they just weren't the heavy-hitters.

As for RE4-2 for Wii, I don't know why it didn't happen, overall Capcom made many boneheaded decisions in the last 3 years. But Nintendo should have pursued that audience as well and they did nothing.

Again: How do they pursue that audience? Make an RE4 type game themselves?

EDIT: Now, if you were saying that Nintendo should be localizing more shit, I'd be in 100% agreement with you - but I still feel you're being a bit unrealistic regarding the course of this generation.

 

[NeonZ]

I find it strange many gamers think the next Wii will be released or rushed to be released based on better graphics when that wasn't what made the Wii the top selling console this generation. You would think by now gamers would get the idea that the mass market doesn't care much for HD graphics.

It is a given the next Wii will have better graphics but the main focus will be a new gimmick or 'catch' to set itself apart from the competition.

Better hardware isn't just for a matter of better graphics, it'd be for better support from 3rd parties too, considering how the Wii has shown that there's a ceiling for a system driven mostly by 1st party, even with multiple hit softwares coming from them.

Now, of course, they'll probably try to have some distinctive software for the launch of their next system, maybe backed up by some new type of hardware too, but trying to foresee that kind of thing at this point is pointless.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Lost in Shadow came out last month (oct 15th) here in the UK, named 'A Shadow's Tale'. Last Story may not get localised, and Mario Sports Mix is hardly going to be a big game.

So uh, there really is just Zelda.

Kirby is out next year in the UK.

 

[Amneisac]

Seems to me they could release something in a year that had graphics equal to or slightly better than XBOX or PS3 right now, still sell it for under $300 and enjoy a few years of wild success before the new XBOX and PS systems come out.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

It doesn't have to be hardware though. Extra power brings with it new possibilities for software beyond just an iterative improvement in graphics. Maybe they use a sophisticated AI and voice recognition so that your console becomes an 'individual' rather than a piece of equipment - Milo as a UI - but with Nintendo's feel and polish. There are a lot of interesting avenues that are opened up by having more processing power and Nintendo are the ones most apt to pursue them.

That's something that anyone could do though, not just Nintendo...so it needs to be something with the "Nintendo difference"!

A non-hardware idea is to pre-load the system with an Animal Crossing interface starring Mii's. If they make it more elaborate (integrated online, shop, community and the Nintendo Channel into it) it could encourage more people to turn on their Wii everyday and see things they normally may not have seen otherwise. They can take it further by allowing new games to update the Animal Crossing world with new animals, t-shirts, furniture, artwork, features, etc. Imagine Nintendo wants the next Metroid to sell better and you go into your Animal Crossing town and Samus shows up to "advertise" the next game. A blimp flies by to show people a trailer of the game or what have you.

 

[szaromir]

By doing what exactly? Be specific.
Dragon Quest goes to the system with the largest userbase. That was the DS. It wasn't going to go anywhere else.
You're assuming that MS and Nintendo started in the same situation with the same circumstances. They didn't. Not at the beginning of this generation, not in the middle, and not now. It was far easier for MS to convince SE, Konami, and Capcom to make games for the 360 because it fit with the kinds of games those companies wanted to make anyway. How do you get them to make a version for an SD system without the online infrastructure that MS offered? And to be fair, each of those companies brought out games for the Wii - they just weren't the heavy-hitters.

At what point were Konami or Namco particularly invested into online gaming? How on Earth would releasing something like Eternal Sonata on 360 only be particularly prospective for Namco etc?

Nintendo had a wonderful position for negotiations throughout second half of 2007 and 2008 - skyrocketing sales, statistics showing that a significant part of PS2 owners buy Wii (which was the case) - obviously they chose not to be involved with 3rd parties and now they pay price for it.

"Bribing" developers isn't a nasty, immoral practice and definitely doesn't "spoil" the market like many people seem to suggest - Nintendo gets royalties for every game sold and essentially developers pay them for privilege to release games on Wii - as a platform holder Nintendo has responsibility to make the platform attractive for all sorts of genres, to stimulate the market on the platform, to share the risk with 3rd parties.

As for my Dragon Quest example, I meant Nintendo's effort to popularize the franchise in the West.

Again: How do they pursue that audience? Make an RE4 type game themselves?

No. By "encouraging" (moneyhatting development, paying for commercials etc.) Capcom to do one, convincing EA to do a "real" Dead Space (instead of light gun games).

 

[Hiltz]

I'm actually struggling to think of any Wii games that are out next year. Zelda's the only one I can think of.

Is that it? Really?

- Like with the GameCube, Nintendo is going to end having to rely on mostly itself using its classic franchises to keep the Wii surviving while third-parties are largley focusing on multiplatform development with seemingly lesser support for the Wii.

- Wii hardware sales have been decreasing and losing out to 360 and PS3. Even in Japan, this has been a problem.

- Generally, third-party sales for core games are still struggling at retail.

- Nintendo's stubbornness to improve the Wii's Menu system and online service is a case of too little, too late. Example: Wiiware demos are JUST returning. Why ? Consumers still need to be informed that they CAN even download games off of the Wii. Why hasn't there been any new Wii channels released with the exception of Netflix ?

- MotionPlus has failed to spark new interest in the Wii. While the tech has proved itself worthy, sales of games which support the peripheral have sold below expectations ranging from Tiger Woods PGA Tour to Red Steel 2. To make matters worse, there's really no announced upcoming games that are going to use it besides the optional support with Conduit 2.

- I think Ubisoft and Capcom aren't showing any further interest in supporting the Wii with big core title exclusives.

- The release of Kinect and Move have started the motion control wars. Fact is, core games are going to take away developer support from the Wii due to the new technology, HD support, better online services, and larger core gamer userbase. This doesn't even matter if both platforms end up being potential failures in the long run. They're taking away current support from the Wii is what matters here.

- Wii hardware sales over years have done extremely well during the holidays. However, the recent release of Kinect and Move may cause that to change. 360 hardware is sure to see a noticable increase. Then there's the software sales contribution to games like COD: Black-Ops. Move's fate is questionable.

- Wiiware is in need of more good titles while the virtual console has been slowly dying formany months now. I also think that it was a lost opportunity that Nintendo did not focus more on releasing big games on Wiiware. I do appriciate the art style games but something more ambitious and exciting would have been nice. Thank goodness for developers like Frontier, 2D Boy, and Nicalis.

- The one big advantage the Wii still has over the HD platforms is its large install base. However, that really doesn't mean much when Wii owners are not buying enough software, generally only supporting Nintendo franchise games and the ocassional casual party titles like Just Dance. If Nintendo doesn't find a way to the Wii back on top again, then I'd expect its hardware sales to sell below 300k on a monthly basis.

- Nintendo is in desperate need of more system-seller titles. The next likely canidates will probably be Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and The Last Story (for Japan at least).

Yes, I think the Wii phenomenon is over. Nintendo's going to let the Wii lose its steam and fade away like the last few years of the GameCube.

With that said, I think there's still several exciting Wii titles to look forward to and most of them are exclusives. Overall, I've been pretty satisfied with the Wii even though there's a ridiculously huge lack of AAA FPS and RPGs on the platform. Fortunately, the Wii's revival of 2D platformers and forgotten Nintendo franchises has been a pleasant surprise. Plus, unexpected third-party releases such as Monster Hunter Tri, Silent Hill, No More Heroes along with a couple of other games has made the Wii worthy of owning. It's only a shame that Capcom hasnot released a traditional Resident Evil game and that perhaps Nintendo may not release a new Starfox title by the time the Wii's time is up.

 

[captmcblack]

And here comes a new challenger!

This bundle would rape, but only if it is no more than the $189 that all other Wii bundles are, and only if it is advertised. There should be a commercial on TV everyday and RIGHT NOW that runs on every channel saying that there's a 25th Anniversary Mario Red and a Wii Fit Plus Black bundle for $189.

 

[nli10]

I have a lot of friends with low incomes. For them the Wii has just hit the point where they can afford to get the machine for Xmas and buy some of the older games.

The Wii has lots of extra homes to go into before it dissapears, and while it doens't have many new games compared to the other formats I think it'll do OK.

 

[jmdajr]

To hell they are. The mainstream audience was responsible for propelling Nintendo to ridiculous levels of sales. They want more new things, and Nintendo isn't offering anything innovative. DKCR, as happy as I am to see it, doesn't qualify.

If you saw my post in the previous page I think casual gamers are getting the shaft. In my opinion the motion control innovation peaked with wii sports and wario smooth moves. I mean I was completely sold on those games. What have we gotten since? Wii fit was cool but that used a whole new peripheral. I know mario kart sold a lot but that wasn't nearly as innovative as the two other games I mentioned. Bottom line..I agree with you.

edit: Though it might seem silly... Wii need trophies/and achievements. I bet more people would take the time to play those games if they had a robust rewarding online experience. I know people think it's dumb but honestly gamers do care about these things. GIVE IT TO THEM.

 

[Vinci]

At what point were Konami or Namco particularly invested into online gaming? How on Earth would releasing something like Eternal Sonata on 360 only be particularly prospective for Namco etc?

I was saying in general, but you make a fair point on those particular companies. Yes, MS was very aggressive with garnering support from the Japanese development community, but did you expect Nintendo to moneyhat people to a level that they would sway interest from MS and to them? Or even come anywhere near parallel? In virtually every case where a multi-platform title hit the Wii, it was made by a B or C team, not the A-listers that would work on the HD versions. This wasn't going to change even if Nintendo wanted it to.

Nintendo had a wonderful position for negotiations throughout second half of 2007 and 2008 - skyrocketing sales, statistics showing that a significant part of PS2 owners buy Wii (which was the case) - obviously they chose not to be involved with 3rd parties and now they pay price for it.

One of the complaints they heard about their prior systems was a lack of userbase. Well, here you go - a massive userbase! And no one cared. You also need to keep in mind that the last time Nintendo had moneyhatted things in the prior generation, it hadn't gone spectacularly well for them. So I'm sure that played into the decision not to do more, though I feel there was more than enough obstacles to make such attempts fruitless and/or so costly as to be ridiculous.

"Bribing" developers isn't a nasty, immoral practice and definitely doesn't "spoil" the market like many people seem to suggest - Nintendo gets royalties for every game sold and essentially developers pay them for privilege to release games on Wii - as a platform holder Nintendo has responsibility to make the platform attractive for all sorts of genres, to stimulate the market on the platform, to share the risk with 3rd parties.

This, I very much disagree with. Do the 3rd parties that MS and Sony paid off seem to be doing spectacularly well to you right now? Virtually none of them is doing well outside of Activision, and that's because they're the most unscrupulous but effective 3rd party of them all. You think this generation hasn't been absolutely catastrophic to this industry in a vast number of ways? How many people are out of work? How many can only fail once and then hit the street? This is the most unsustainable, irresponsible shape that this industry has been in since the crash - and it's predominantly because the platform-holders spent enormous sums of money, from outside this industry even, in order to incentivize a style of business that simply doesn't work.

As for my Dragon Quest example, I meant Nintendo's effort to popularize the franchise in the West.

And that has what to do with their hardware fortunes over here? Whether DQ becomes enormous in the West or not, since it never has been, had nothing to do with the fact that the DS is still outselling every system ever.

No. By "encouraging" (moneyhatting development, paying for commercials etc.) Capcom to do one, convincing EA to do a "real" Dead Space (instead of light gun games).

Was the Dead Space light-gun game that friggin' bad? I heard it was good. Maybe that's the only developers EA had available - maybe all their 'real' Dead Space guys were busy working on Dead Space 2 or some other thing that held great interest to the company. I mean, you're acting as if these companies were going to take their big guys off of these systems that totally indulge them and work on something like the Wii. You know that's impossible, right?

 

[brain_stew]

I think you confusing people with "main stream gamers". Main stream gamers want new stuff from Nintendo. The general Wii audience is perfectly content with what they're getting.

If that was the case then the Wii wouldn't have been suffering from two solid years of decline.

 

[Rocket Punch]

If that was the case then the Wii wouldn't have been suffering from two solid years of decline.

Any mass product will eventially reach saturation point and will have to decline as a result. What are your expectations? Rise to heaven.. into infinity and beyond? Forever??

Nintendo did marvelously this generation, beyond their, and the markets wildest expectations. It's interesting how people always downplay Nintendo no matter the context and reality.

 

[Dunlop]

Nintendo did marvelously this generation, beyond their, and the markets wildest expectations. It's interesting how people always downplay Nintendo no matter the context and reality.

which is the answer to the OP, yes the Wii craze is over

No rational person will say the Wii was a fad or has done badly, what they are saying is Nintendo sat on their laurels and let MS and Sony back into the fight. They should have done whatever was needed to get third parties on board

 

[Jomjom]

If that was the case then the Wii wouldn't have been suffering from two solid years of decline.

I don't know if contentment is even an issue. The casual gamers I know (girlfriend, mom/dad, relatives, family friends) have all stopped following what even releases on the Wii. After the initial fervor that motivated them all to get the system, they played Wii Sports and a couple of other games for a while, and have since moved back to their normal activities (mostly TV). I know it's anecdotal, but it's the same with all of the casual gamers I know and I really doubt that they are an exception to the rule.

 

[poppabk]

If that was the case then the Wii wouldn't have been suffering from two solid years of decline.

That doesn't necessarily hold, whether you are talking hardware or software. Hardware could completely stagnate but current owners could still be blissfully happy. Software numbers could drop because people are quite happy with the software they have - or because hardware has dropped and new owners buy more software.

 

[Kai Dracon]

If you saw my post in the previous page I think casual gamers are getting the shaft. In my opinion the motion control innovation peaked with wii sports and wario smooth moves. I mean I was completely sold on those games. What have we gotten since? Wii fit was cool but that used a whole new peripheral. I know mario kart sold a lot but that wasn't nearly as innovative as the two other games I mentioned. Bottom line..I agree with you.

Nintendo unfortunately has shafted the expanded and potential new, fresh audience with regards to forward thinking motion control games.

What excited people about Wii was the vision it promised; it had the instant appeal of the classic arcade scene at its height during the golden age; a wide variety of original and colorful games that excluded no-one, each with a unique and involving "gimmick" to its interface. I believe this was one reason for the Wii's initial success as much as technerd gurus like to believe it was due to a pure Apple-like fad. Wii appealed to a huge number of average people who had lost touch with the existence of video games because video games had spiraled inward to orbit ever-more hardcore 18-30 year old males.

But, this may have been a case where Nintendo's own development practices worked against them, come to think of it. Nintendo sweats over their software - usually - and it shows in polish and attention to detail. But Nintendo is notorious for both keeping secrets and for spending a lot of time developing and discarding prototypes; their own conservative nature that helps them remain profitable in an insane industry also causes them to be overly careful about what games they decide to develop up to release-canidate status.

The upshot is that I truly wonder if Nintendo /couldn't/ capitalize on the hunger for Wii-centric games because they wouldn't commit to anything and just get it out there. The faith of core gamers in Wii motion control games was damaged early on by Red Steel 1 and other 3rd party shitfests but the expanded audience still had some excitement because of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. The debacle of Wii Music and a lackluster Wii edition of Animal Crossing really hurt though. Then it was followed by Motion+ and Wii Sports Resort being delayed. When Resort finally came out, between that and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, it was Nintendo's chance to regain the faith of new audiences.

But they fumbled it all, I feel. They clearly had /nothing/ in development outside of the apparently quickly thrown-together Wii Party. I viewed E3 2010 as Nintendo's make it or break it E3 for the Wii's remaining life cycle. If they didn't come out swinging with a renewed, energetic expanded audience push, something on the order of Wii Fit and something as exciting for everyone as Wii Sports, it was over.

Sadly, that came to pass, or so it seems. Nintendo really, really should have put out a steady stream of fun arcade-like Wii specific titles, something like 3 to 4 a year, with modest budgets but good core gameplay hooks. Ironically it would have been a massive step up from the sheer humiliation of what 3rd parties threw their way.

 

[boiled goose]

Nintendo unfortunately has shafted the expanded and potential new, fresh audience with regards to forward thinking motion control games.

What excited people about Wii was the vision it promised; it had the instant appeal of the classic arcade scene at its height during the golden age; a wide variety of original and colorful games that excluded no-one, each with a unique and involving "gimmick" to its interface. I believe this was one reason for the Wii's initial success as much as technerd gurus like to believe it was due to a pure Apple-like fad. Wii appealed to a huge number of average people who had lost touch with the existence of video games because video games had spiraled inward to orbit ever-more hardcore 18-30 year old males.

But, this may have been a case where Nintendo's own development practices worked against them, come to think of it. Nintendo sweats over their software - usually - and it shows in polish and attention to detail. But Nintendo is notorious for both keeping secrets and for spending a lot of time developing and discarding prototypes; their own conservative nature that helps them remain profitable in an insane industry also causes them to be overly careful about what games they decide to develop up to release-canidate status.

The upshot is that I truly wonder if Nintendo /couldn't/ capitalize on the hunger for Wii-centric games because they wouldn't commit to anything and just get it out there. The faith of core gamers in Wii motion control games was damaged early on by Red Steel 1 and other 3rd party shitfests but the expanded audience still had some excitement because of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. The debacle of Wii Music and a lackluster Wii edition of Animal Crossing really hurt though. Then it was followed by Motion+ and Wii Sports Resort being delayed. When Resort finally came out, between that and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, it was Nintendo's chance to regain the faith of new audiences.

But they fumbled it all, I feel. They clearly had /nothing/ in development outside of the apparently quickly thrown-together Wii Party. I viewed E3 2010 as Nintendo's make it or break it E3 for the Wii's remaining life cycle. If they didn't come out swinging with a renewed, energetic expanded audience push, something on the order of Wii Fit and something as exciting for everyone as Wii Sports, it was over.

Sadly, that came to pass, or so it seems. Nintendo really, really should have put out a steady stream of fun arcade-like Wii specific titles, something like 3 to 4 a year, with modest budgets but good core gameplay hooks. Ironically it would have been a massive step up from the sheer humiliation of what 3rd parties threw their way.

wii sports resort and nsmbwii did provide a bit of a boost to the casual base.
Te biggest problem was digging themselves out of the hole left by animal crossing and wii music. That was a terrible mistake. We'll see what Dk can do...

 

[szaromir]

I was saying in general, but you make a fair point on those particular companies. Yes, MS was very aggressive with garnering support from the Japanese development community, but did you expect Nintendo to moneyhat people to a level that they would sway interest from MS and to them? Or even come anywhere near parallel? In virtually every case where a multi-platform title hit the Wii, it was made by a B or C team, not the A-listers that would work on the HD versions. This wasn't going to change even if Nintendo wanted it to.

They could never get Valves and Epics to work on Wii because they had little reason to miss the front they were leading on, but they could possibly get talented devs that weren't at the time so well regarded (say Rocksteady). Some developers did try to do big core games, but I think it was too little and absolutely no big franchises were attached (rather than a mix of old and new IPs).

One of the complaints they heard about their prior systems was a lack of userbase. Well, here you go - a massive userbase! And no one cared. You also need to keep in mind that the last time Nintendo had moneyhatted things in the prior generation, it hadn't gone spectacularly well for them. So I'm sure that played into the decision not to do more, though I feel there was more than enough obstacles to make such attempts fruitless and/or so costly as to be ridiculous.

MS could use million excuses not to work with 3rd parties, too, but they decided to stick with it until they got support from basically everybody. Whatever happened during N64/GC days shouldn't refrain them from trying.

This, I very much disagree with. Do the 3rd parties that MS and Sony paid off seem to be doing spectacularly well to you right now? Virtually none of them is doing well outside of Activision, and that's because they're the most unscrupulous but effective 3rd party of them all. You think this generation hasn't been absolutely catastrophic to this industry in a vast number of ways? How many people are out of work? How many can only fail once and then hit the street? This is the most unsustainable, irresponsible shape that this industry has been in since the crash - and it's predominantly because the platform-holders spent enormous sums of money, from outside this industry even, in order to incentivize a style of business that simply doesn't work.

It's the first time that I hear that raising funds (especially for entertainment products) will ake you less successful. Losses suffered by publishers are not caused by MS's/Sony's financial support for some projects.

And that has what to do with their hardware fortunes over here? Whether DQ becomes enormous in the West or not, since it never has been, had nothing to do with the fact that the DS is still outselling every system ever.

Of course it has nothing to do with DS's past success. However, with DQ9 Nintendo leveraged and promoted 3rd party franchise in order to promote the platform itself, something MS and Sony have been doing for years.

Was the Dead Space light-gun game that friggin' bad? I heard it was good. Maybe that's the only developers EA had available - maybe all their 'real' Dead Space guys were busy working on Dead Space 2 or some other thing that held great interest to the company. I mean, you're acting as if these companies were going to take their big guys off of these systems that totally indulge them and work on something like the Wii. You know that's impossible, right?

Extraction was a good, high quality game but it also falls into Wii light-gun stigma. I think given more time and advertising the same team could do a "full" successful Dead Space game, not an on rails shooter.

 

[Vinci]

They could never get Valves and Epics to work on Wii because they had little reason to miss the front they were leading on, but they could possibly get talented devs that weren't at the time so well regarded (say Rocksteady).

Who was Rocksteady before AA though? And why would anyone have cared if they made games for the system before AA brought the studio out of anonymity?

Some developers did try to do big core games, but I think it was too little and absolutely no big franchises were attached (rather than a mix of old and new IPs).

Really? Such as? I mean, outside of the RE4 Wii situation?

MS could use million excuses not to work with 3rd parties, too, but they decided to stick with it until they got support from basically everybody.

MS didn't use millions of excuses because they were willing to use billions of dollars in order to keep Sony from taking over the living room. This entire battle between Sony and MS wasn't just about controlling the video game market, man; it was merely a queen in a much larger game of chess. This influx of money and spending was not healthy for this industry, particularly when much of the funding came from outside of the industry and had nothing to do with its future. [Of course Apple fucked that up for both of them.]

Whatever happened during N64/GC days shouldn't refrain them from trying.

They did. The Wii was their try. It wasn't what these people wanted. It was the best choice for Nintendo at the time, though, so this was an unavoidable mismatch.

It's the first time that I hear that raising funds (especially for entertainment products) will ake you less successful. Losses suffered by publishers are not caused by MS's/Sony's financial support for some projects.

It inflates operations and drives unsustainable growth and makes for lazy management practices. The spigot could not remain running forever, so what happens when all of the structure, the procedures, and the unrealistic growth finally lacks its driving force? Yeah, stuff collapses. Look at the ridiculous number of titles being released nowadays - the market is simply flooded, and developers are dropping left and right. Did you not see the financial statements of these companies over the last several years? Blood was gushing everywhere.

Extraction was a good, high quality game but it also falls into Wii light-gun stigma. I think given more time and advertising the same team could do a "full" successful Dead Space game, not an on rails shooter.

But that's not what EA wanted to do. They looked at sales figures, saw that Wii gamers actually liked light-gun games, and decided that those were relatively easy to make. Making a game like RE4 - possibly the best last gen had to offer - is not easy or cheap, even on the Wii.

 

[WillyFive]

No rational person will say the Wii was a fad or has done badly, what they are saying is Nintendo sat on their laurels and let MS and Sony back into the fight. They should have done whatever was needed to get third parties on board

This is true.

 

[Mariah Carey]

Nintendo unfortunately has shafted the expanded and potential new, fresh audience with regards to forward thinking motion control games.

What excited people about Wii was the vision it promised; it had the instant appeal of the classic arcade scene at its height during the golden age; a wide variety of original and colorful games that excluded no-one, each with a unique and involving "gimmick" to its interface. I believe this was one reason for the Wii's initial success as much as technerd gurus like to believe it was due to a pure Apple-like fad. Wii appealed to a huge number of average people who had lost touch with the existence of video games because video games had spiraled inward to orbit ever-more hardcore 18-30 year old males.

But, this may have been a case where Nintendo's own development practices worked against them, come to think of it. Nintendo sweats over their software - usually - and it shows in polish and attention to detail. But Nintendo is notorious for both keeping secrets and for spending a lot of time developing and discarding prototypes; their own conservative nature that helps them remain profitable in an insane industry also causes them to be overly careful about what games they decide to develop up to release-canidate status.

The upshot is that I truly wonder if Nintendo /couldn't/ capitalize on the hunger for Wii-centric games because they wouldn't commit to anything and just get it out there. The faith of core gamers in Wii motion control games was damaged early on by Red Steel 1 and other 3rd party shitfests but the expanded audience still had some excitement because of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. The debacle of Wii Music and a lackluster Wii edition of Animal Crossing really hurt though. Then it was followed by Motion+ and Wii Sports Resort being delayed. When Resort finally came out, between that and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, it was Nintendo's chance to regain the faith of new audiences.

But they fumbled it all, I feel. They clearly had /nothing/ in development outside of the apparently quickly thrown-together Wii Party. I viewed E3 2010 as Nintendo's make it or break it E3 for the Wii's remaining life cycle. If they didn't come out swinging with a renewed, energetic expanded audience push, something on the order of Wii Fit and something as exciting for everyone as Wii Sports, it was over.

Sadly, that came to pass, or so it seems. Nintendo really, really should have put out a steady stream of fun arcade-like Wii specific titles, something like 3 to 4 a year, with modest budgets but good core gameplay hooks. Ironically it would have been a massive step up from the sheer humiliation of what 3rd parties threw their way.

Heeeeere we go!

Nintendo's timidity with motion controls has been draw-dropping. I mean it's not like it was the freakin' centerpiece of the whole system or anything.