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[Vercingetorix]

.

What's next? After the boat, the train, can we hope about a Nascar or an airplane?

Seriously, how did it go from this:

To that? Nintendo has killed this franchise for so many fans in such short time, it's almost impressive.

 

[flintstryker]

I am having a hard time figuring out whats wrong with the train...

 

[DDayton]

"Killed the franchise"

...

Hah.

Whiny folks don't want a Phantom Hourglass sequel with a train.

I doubt that will stop the same folks from grabbing the Wii Zelda game when it is released.

 

[Green Mamba]

Seriously, how did it go from this:

To that? Nintendo has killed this franchise for so many fans in such short time, it's almost impressive.

So does your fantasy world not include this?

I mean, it's pretty obvious that Nintendo is going in two separate (and simultaneous) directions here. One doesn't take precedence over another in their marketing and graphic decisions.

 

[flintstryker]

"Killed the franchise"

...

Hah.

Whiny folks don't want a Phantom Hourglass sequel with a train.

I doubt that will stop the same folks from grabbing the Wii Zelda game when it is released.

But why whats so bad about a train...am i missing something here?

 

[Somnid]

Seriously, how did it go from this:

To that? Nintendo has killed this franchise for so many fans in such short time, it's almost impressive.

This is sarcasm. Someone please tell me it's sarcasm.

 

[Johnas]

But why whats so bad about a train...am i missing something here?

I think for most people it's just jarring in the context of a Zelda game. The rest of the game world evokes a time when "modern technology" didn't exist, so the train seems out of place.

It definitely struck me as weird when the game was first revealed, but I've gotten used to it. I still haven't decided if I'll buy this game at release or not.

 

[Vercingetorix]

So does your fantasy world not include this?

I mean, it's pretty obvious that Nintendo is going in two separate (and simultaneous) directions here. One doesn't take precedence over another in their marketing and graphic decisions.

That direction isn't exactly confidence inspiring either, it strikes me in a similar way to Super Mario Galaxy 2: a "here, have this hardcore gamers, we'll keep endlessly retreating and not really improving on Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and N64 Zeldas. Oh and a new Smash Bros of course."

Seems like more of a lip service to their few hardcore fans then anything. Nintendo is committed to the casual audience now, and everyone knows it. I enjoyed their games most back when they were developing their games for my demographic, not the Wii Sports and Wii Fit types.

The art style isn't the problem. Hell, I'd love to see an extremely bright and vibrant color palette on a console Zelda. It's the attitude behind it, that they don't really care, that seems to produce games like Twilight Princess. Technically good, but there's no soul there. It's just another Zelda adventure, with bosses, and doesn't do anything new or really interesting like Ocarina or Majora's Mask did.

 

[Green Mamba]

I think for most people it's just jarring in the context of a Zelda game. The rest of the game world evokes a time when "modern technology" didn't exist, so the train seems out of place.

It definitely struck me as weird when the game was first revealed, but I've gotten used to it. I still haven't decided if I'll buy this game at release or not.

Odd considering I don't recall too much bitching about the steam boat in Phantom Hourglass.

Or the telephones in Link's Awakening.

Or the jukebox and the internal combustion engines in Majora's Mask.

Zelda's always been one big anachronism stew (go to hell TVTropes for messing with my vocabulary). The train isn't really out of place when you look at it in relativity terms.

 

[Somnid]

I think for most people it's just jarring in the context of a Zelda game. The rest of the game world evokes a time when "modern technology" didn't exist, so the train seems out of place.

It definitely struck me as weird when the game was first revealed, but I've gotten used to it. I still haven't decided if I'll buy this game at release or not.

The last one has a steamboat which is the same technology. Hell, a good portion of GAF wants a steampunk Zelda.

 

[Green Mamba]

That direction isn't exactly confidence inspiring either, it strikes me in a similar way to Super Mario Galaxy 2: a "here, have this hardcore gamers, we'll keep endlessly retreating and not really improving on Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and N64 Zeldas. Oh and a new Smash Bros of course."

Seems like more of a lip service to their few hardcore fans then anything. Nintendo is committed to the casual audience now, and everyone knows it. I enjoyed their games most back when they were developing their games for my demographic, not the Wii Sports and Wii Fit types.

The art style isn't the problem. Hell, I'd love to see an extremely bright and vibrant color palette on a console Zelda. It's the attitude behind it, that they don't really care, that seems to produce games like Twilight Princess. Technically good, but there's no soul there. It's just another Zelda adventures, with bosses, and doesn't do anything new or really interesting like Ocarina or Majora's Mask did.

And you can tell this directly from one released piece of art.

...

No, you're not worth the time.

 

[Johnas]

The last one has a steamboat which is the same technology. Hell, a good portion of GAF wants a steampunk Zelda.

I started to add to my post earlier about that exact point, but didn't. I think it's fair to say that while you're right, it's easier to make the jump from sailboat to steamboat than boat (in general) to train. Of course, there are other aspects of past titles (UFO in MM for example) that really seem even more out of place.

Regardless, with PH, Zelda seems to have changed more than a lot of people here want to admit. There are multiple reasons people like myself are suspicious about ST, beyond the train, which admittedly is a starting point. I don't want to the game to be bad, I'd love to be able to thoroughly enjoy it.

 

[Somnid]

That direction isn't exactly confidence inspiring either, it strikes me in a similar way to Super Mario Galaxy 2: a "here, have this hardcore gamers, we'll keep endlessly retreating and not really improving on Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and N64 Zeldas. Oh and a new Smash Bros of course."

Seems like more of a lip service to their few hardcore fans then anything. Nintendo is committed to the casual audience now, and everyone knows it. I enjoyed their games most back when they were developing their games for my demographic, not the Wii Sports and Wii Fit types.

The art style isn't the problem. Hell, I'd love to see an extremely bright and vibrant color palette on a console Zelda. It's the attitude behind it, that they don't really care, that seems to produce games like Twilight Princess. Technically good, but there's no soul there. It's just another Zelda adventure, with bosses, and doesn't do anything new or really interesting like Ocarina or Majora's Mask did.

So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?

 

[Vercingetorix]

So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?

The magic robots are paramount.

In general, I want the old Nintendo back, one where the creative attention is directed toward things like Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, etc, and away from Nintendogs, Pikmin, Wii Music, etc.

Sure, it won't happen, but that's what I'd like to see. Until that (never) happens, I'll just be playing 360 and PC games.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The best and most consistent thing Zelda does as a series is remind me that I hate people.

 

[beelzebozo]

That direction isn't exactly confidence inspiring either, it strikes me in a similar way to Super Mario Galaxy 2: a "here, have this hardcore gamers, we'll keep endlessly retreating and not really improving on Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and N64 Zeldas. Oh and a new Smash Bros of course."

so, just to be clear here, you think that each time they make a new game--regardless of how ball-bustingly fantastic, visually and conceptually interesting, and new the previous game was--that it's always better to start from scratch and do something wholly different than to expound upon the ideas of the former game, saving tons of groundwork and freeing up resources for creativity?

because i mean, if you found MARIO GALAXY boring or a retread of past mario games, then i think you're not only wrong, i think you're fucking nuts and should rethink your positions. all of them. even those not concerning video games.

 

[Vercingetorix]

The best and most consistent thing Zelda does as a series is remind me that I hate people.

If you need to be reminded, clearly your hatred is weak.

And beelzebozo, I have to reluctantly admit that I did not find super mario galaxy to be an orgasmic vindication of everything Nintendo has done wrong over the past decade. I guess that means I can't count on your vote come election day. I wasn't expecting much support from the Nintendo loyalist electorate, to be honest.

 

[beelzebozo]

if you're the type to sit around waiting for nintendo to "make up" the past decade to you, i think you may be sorely disappointed.

 

[Vercingetorix]

if you're the type to sit around waiting for nintendo to "make up" the past decade to you, i think you may be sorely disappointed.

Think? I know I will be sorely disappointed, because I was disappointed after the gamecube disaster.

Nintendo suddenly becoming awesome again is about as likely as Rare becoming awesome again. It won't happen, but I'd like to think it still could. Same kind of thing with Bungie making a Halo game that I like. I know that their next game probably won't be the kind of Halo that I like, but I still hope that Halo Reach will be much more like Halo 1 and something that I will therefore like. Perhaps irrational hope is an inescapable condition of being human.

That said, I'm not the type to "sit around" waiting for something that won't happen. Other developers are pushing the envelope, making new things. They might not always do it as well as Nintendo did back in their prime, but hey, the other developers are always showing improvement and generally moving in directions I like, so it's all good.

 

[jman2050]

The one and only perpetual truth is that Zelda fans, as a whole, are completely unpleasable.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

because i mean, if you found MARIO GALAXY boring or a retread of past mario games, then i think you're not only wrong, i think you're fucking nuts and should rethink your positions. all of them. even those not concerning video games.

HE SAID WHAT ABOUT SUPER MARIO GALAXY!

If you need to be reminded, clearly your hatred is weak.

And beelzebozo, I have to reluctantly admit that I did not find super mario galaxy to be an orgasmic vindication of everything Nintendo has done wrong over the past decade. I guess that means I can't count on your vote come election day. I wasn't expecting much support from the Nintendo loyalist electorate, to be honest.

Uh... OK. So you hate everything Nintendo has done over the past decade. Why are you in this thread at all?

 

[flintstryker]

The one and only perpetual truth is that Zelda fans, as a whole, are completely unpleasable.

Not me i pretty much love every Zelda game i play. I see nothing to gain from constantly weeping over what the zelda games are not, i just love them for what they are.

 

[jman2050]

Not me i pretty much love every Zelda game i play. I see nothing to gain from constantly weeping over what the zelda games are not, i just love them for what they are.

Congratulations on being one of the reasonable ones.

 

[Oli]

Lets face it, Zelda fans will never be happy.

Make a game too similar, and they complain. (Twilight Princess)
Make a game too different, and they complain. (Spirit Tracks)


It doesn't matter if it's trains or horses, Zelda fans are the most wishy-washy bunch there ever was.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Lets face it, Zelda fans will never be happy.

Make a game too similar, and they complain. (Twilight Princess)
Make a game too different, and they complain. (Spirit Tracks)


It doesn't matter if it's trains or horses, Zelda fans are the most wishy-washy bunch there ever was.

Zelda fans sound an awful lot like gaffers and forum denizens in general if this is how they behave. Your point?

Squirrel, my mistake, clearly I thought this was a thread about discussion of a Zelda game. Turns it its a thread for discussion of....um.....trains? Yeah, cel-shaded trains. That's it.

Congratulations on being one of the reasonable ones.

If everyone just played games for "what they are" and never offered any discussion, GAF would not exist. Congrats on a pointless post.

 

[ace harding: private eye]

Lets face it, Zelda fans will never be happy.

Make a game too similar, and they complain. (Twilight Princess)
Make a game too different, and they complain. (Spirit Tracks)


It doesn't matter if it's trains or horses, Zelda fans are the most wishy-washy bunch there ever was.

How about making a game that doesn't rely on a gimmick, and solely on action and puzzles, like the first half of the series?

 

[beelzebozo]

How about making a game that doesn't rely on a gimmick, and solely on action and puzzles, like the first half of the series?

is something like shrinking/growing in MINISH CAP really so much more a gimmick than switching between a light and dark world in LINK TO THE PAST?

 

[Slavik81]

This news makes me very sad.

Don't worry. It's common for terrible movies, games and books to sell well solely because they're sequels to great ones. Often, the effects of a fantastic, or a terrible title aren't seen until the sequel.

For instance, the best-selling Guitar Hero game is Guitar Hero 3. Sales increased with each game and peaked with Guitar Hero 3 because 1 and 2 were awesome, but 3 was awful.

A second example would be The Matrix Reloaded, which outsold both the original Matrix and The Matrix Revolutions at the box office.

 

[flintstryker]

Zelda fans sound an awful lot like gaffers and forum denizens in general if this is how they behave. Your point?

Squirrel, my mistake, clearly I thought this was a thread about discussion of a Zelda game. Turns it its a thread for discussion of....um.....trains? Yeah, cel-shaded trains. That's it.



If everyone just played games for "what they are" and never offered any discussion, GAF would not exist. Congrats on a pointless post.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as i am constantly appalled at some of the things people complain about around here, especially with so little info to back what they are complaining about the majority of the time. Like seeing the screenshot for a game for the first time and deciding that the game will suck based on said screenshot and will argue to the death about it too.

 

[Oli]

If everyone just played games for "what they are" and never offered any discussion, GAF would not exist. Congrats on a pointless post.

What a terrible world that would be, to enjoy something and not spend time complaining about it. Can't imagine.

Spoiler

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go browse Gaf into the night

 

[daycru]

Last good Zelda was Minnish Cap, Nintendo has exhausted my supply of good will.

 

[NeoZylom]

But why whats so bad about a train...am i missing something here?

Same as the boat. I didn't like the boat mechanism. It was boring and ruined WW and PH for me. So yeah, my hopes for ST are low low low...

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Squirrel, my mistake, clearly I thought this was a thread about discussion of a Zelda game. Turns it its a thread for discussion of....um.....trains? Yeah, cel-shaded trains. That's it.

I meant it more in the sense that you don't seem to be particularly interested in Nintendo games at all, let alone the series or this particular game. This thread posits the question as to why there is no hype for the game despite hype for previous entries. You don't seem to have been hyped previously (you certainly aren't now), so why bother with the thread?

 

[ace harding: private eye]

is something like shrinking/growing in MINISH CAP really so much more a gimmick than switching between a light and dark world in LINK TO THE PAST?

Of course they're similar in that regard, but Minish Cap had 5 dungeons and required no thought to complete, thanks to simple, linear map design and a hat that constantly told you what to do.

 

[beelzebozo]

I meant it more in the sense that you don't seem to be particularly interested in Nintendo games at all, let alone the series or this particular game. This thread posits the question as to why there is no hype for the game despite hype for previous entries. You don't seem to have been hyped previously (you certainly aren't now), so why bother with the thread?

didn't you hear him? they made wii fit dude.

wii fit.

they don't care about us anymore.

 

[GamerSoul]

I just like my Zeldas to be epic in scale.
:l that's all i ask

 

[NeoZylom]

Of course they're similar in that regard, but Minish Cap had 5 dungeons and required no thought to complete, thanks to simple, linear map design and a hat that constantly told you what to do.

Hmmm, this description almost fit with Phantom Hourglass. Just remove the hat and you get Phantom Hourglass.

It required no thought to complete
Simple and linear map design (the dungeon were 3-4 rooms ...)
Super easy mode

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Remember what I said about haters?

Right there. Go sit on it. Be sure to twist.

 

[lorddarkflare]

Zelda doesn't need hype.

What more need be said?

 

[cramcakes]

Remember what I said about haters?

Right there. Go sit on it. Be sure to twist.

:lol

I enjoyed PH and I'm looking forward to ST. I wish they would put out some new video/impressions for the game, but at the same time I want to be surprised.

 

[OnPoint]

That direction isn't exactly confidence inspiring either, it strikes me in a similar way to Super Mario Galaxy 2: a "here, have this hardcore gamers, we'll keep endlessly retreating and not really improving on Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and N64 Zeldas. Oh and a new Smash Bros of course."

Seems like more of a lip service to their few hardcore fans then anything. Nintendo is committed to the casual audience now, and everyone knows it. I enjoyed their games most back when they were developing their games for my demographic, not the Wii Sports and Wii Fit types.

The art style isn't the problem. Hell, I'd love to see an extremely bright and vibrant color palette on a console Zelda. It's the attitude behind it, that they don't really care, that seems to produce games like Twilight Princess. Technically good, but there's no soul there. It's just another Zelda adventure, with bosses, and doesn't do anything new or really interesting like Ocarina or Majora's Mask did.

That direction isn't exactly confidence inspiring either, it strikes me in a similar way to Super Mario Galaxy 2: a "here, have this hardcore gamers, we'll keep endlessly retreating and not really improving on Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and N64 Zeldas. Oh and a new Smash Bros of course."

"here, have this hardcore gamers, we'll keep endlessly retreating and not really improving on Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and N64 Zeldas. Oh and a new Smash Bros of course."

not really improving on Super Mario 64

Wait. Back the fuck up. Did you even play Galaxy?

Minish Cap is the best handheld Zelda.

Just throwing that out there.

*sigh* tag quotes incoming

 

[ZeoVGM]

Minish Cap is the best handheld Zelda.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[jman2050]

Minish Cap is the best handheld Zelda.

Just throwing that out there.

It very well may have been if it were three times as long.

That's really the only major concern I had with the game, and unfortunately it's an extremely major one. By the time MC starts to get really creative and vast with its dungeon and puzzle design, BOOM, game is over. It's like if Ocarina of Time ended when you opened the door in the Temple of Time and fought through a final mini-dungeon to the final boss.

For the record, I thought Wind Waker suffered from the same problem, though not nearly to MC's extent.

 

[GCX]

It's the attitude behind it, that they don't really care, that seems to produce games like Twilight Princess. Technically good, but there's no soul there. It's just another Zelda adventure, with bosses, and doesn't do anything new or really interesting like Ocarina or Majora's Mask did.

It's definitely wrong to say Nintendo didn't try with Twilight Princess. They wanted to cater all those millions fans that had been begging another Ocarina of Time for almost a decade. Aonuma said his personal mission was to make the best Zelda game ever and budget-wise the game is probably still the most expensive game Nintendo has produced.

They definitely did try.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Wait. Back the fuck up. Did you even play Galaxy?

That was just a blatantly stupid comment. Same with Mario Kart 64 too.

Even Sunshine and Double Dash "improved" on SM64 and MK64. While most people like those games better, Sunshine and Double Dash both tried something different and unique. (And personally, I think DD > MK64, while SM64 > Sunshine, but that's another argument.)

And to act as if Mario Kart DS somehow didn't improve on Mario Kart 64 is also insane. The Mission Mode was addicting. And a new addition. Plus, the first ever online play in the series.

WTF do you want them to do? Should they sandbox-ize Mario games like they did with Burnout Paradise and Sly Cooper?

And yeah, no need to go into detail into why Galaxy isn't an improvement on SM64. That's just insane.

 

[jman2050]

It's definitely wrong to say Nintendo didn't try with Twilight Princess. They wanted to cater all those millions fans that had been begging another Ocarina of Time for almost a decade. Aonuma said his personal mission was to make the best Zelda game ever and budget-wise the game is probably still the most expensive game Nintendo has produced.

They definitely did try.

I've said it before, but any person that tries to dismiss TP out of hand with the "it has no soul!" argument or variants of it I just ignore completely.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

And succeeded. Twilight Princess is fuckawesome.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It very well may have been if it were three times as long.

That's really the only major concern I had with the game, and unfortunately it's an extremely major one. By the time MC starts to get really creative and vast with its dungeon and puzzle design, BOOM, game is over. It's like if Ocarina of Time ended when you opened the door in the Temple of Time and fought through a final mini-dungeon to the final boss.

For the record, I thought Wind Waker suffered from the same problem, though not nearly to MC's extent.

I actually didn't mind that. Sure, it was a shorter game, but it wasn't a short game. It wasn't exactly a 6 hour video game like some these days. I got like 30 hours out of it.

And god damn, best final boss music in a Zelda ever.

I want Capcom on another Zelda.

 

[ZeoVGM]

And succeeded. Twilight Princess is fuckawesome.

This. It starts off slow but after that? Holy fuck.

 

[jman2050]

And succeeded. Twilight Princess is fuckawesome.

It really is. There are several flaws and valid complaints that have been exhausted over the many threads about the game, but to say that Nintendo is lazy or didn't try is just trying to objectify a subjective opinion.