And they hold true to most of the responses in this thread
90k+ on PC, i think ps4/xbox have up to 150k+
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It's 2017. So why the hell does For Honor not have dedicated servers?
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
And they hold true to most of the responses in this thread
90k+ on PC, i think ps4/xbox have up to 150k+
Like who?And they hold true to most of the responses in this thread
No, I mean per-match.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Theres 1 v 1, 2 v 2, and 4 v 4
Go through the thread and try and find responses from people who clearly have never touched the game.. thats who
Yep it's fine in 1v1, even 2v2.
4v4 the connections aren't bad, just when the host leaves it can be disruptive. Leaving is a problem in general, even if it was dedicated though.
Saucycarpdog
Member
And what's your proof? That they didn't know the devs put a host advantage proof system into their P2P system? You had to read up to find that out and you could only find it when the devs defended their P2P system. Meanwhile the enormous amounts of disconnects and host migration holds true.And they hold true to most of the responses in this thread
Also, please tell me why negative reviews shouldn't be listened to? I'd love to hear why your opinion is more worth than a critics opinion.
I don't see "most". Perhaps you can show me what your referring to as all I see is people talking about mm issues and cost/design.
And what's your proof? That they didn't know the devs put a host advantage proof system into their P2P system? You had to read up to find that out and you could only find it when the devs defended their P2P system. Meanwhile the enormous amounts of disconnects and host migration holds true.
Also, please tell me why negative reviews shouldn't be listened to? I'd love to hear why your opinion is more worth than a critics opinion.
Lets see, people clearly dont understand that fighting games generally use p2p. The OP states that its 2017, yet every fighting game that has recently came out uses p2p. Three of the posts are just "cos money". One posts states that they use p2p cause "they didnt have faith in the game" when every beta (i think 3 or 4 of them) they've put out was a success with the open beta having around 4 mil players. While I haven't played any of Ubisoft's previous games, they're definitely improving from what I hear. People just don't like the game because of the company behind it. A lot of people in general ( not only this thread ) hear the term p2p and instantly see it as a bad thing. This game was based around the 1 v 1 aspect thus why they are using a hybrid p2p model. Regardless of all that, rainbow six siege recently announced they are going from p2p to dedicated servers for ranked mode... which we will most likely see when the for honor ranking system comes out.
When I said people read "negative reviews posted from elsewhere", I didn't mean critics... You realize there are sites where users post reviews too right? Steam? Reddit? Amazon? People who suck at the game and state it was because of peer to peer generally post bad reviews on these sites, and since people are sheeps, they tend to listen. Thats all I was saying
Oh, well that sucks. I think Xbox is the least played platform for this. Though even on PC there are often teams that seem very unbalanced atleast based on the prestige level and item score. Though you never know when someone is playing a character they don't main and actually have a great deal of experience with the game.
Edit: Unless it's you who doesn't feel like they don't fit.
There is. Iwon a match where my adversary were clearly blocking my heavy attack and still get hit. We both see that
Nothing is perfect. Rollback is going to happen once and awhile, that's the nature of online play. Dedicated isn't perfect either, especially for 1v1. Just because you have a good connection to the server doesn't mean your opponent does, and since it's a fighting game that'd have to be accounted for. You having a better ping to the server should not be given an advantage, meaning anyone with a shitty ping to the server is still going to cause these issues to happen.
NullPointer
Member
Saucycarpdog
Member
How many fighting games have a 4v4 mode?
Money and lack of confidence are valid theories. The devs have not stated why they specifically choose P2P with a 4v4 playlist. Games like COD still use P2P cause money and Ubisoft has had lack of confidence in previous games they published.
It truly is hilarious seeing a person accuse others of not playing a game while at the same time saying he hasn't played previous Ubisoft games but thinks people just hate Ubisoft without having played their games.
Again, it's not just 1v1. It's also 2v2 and 4v4. Why do you keep ignoring that? Ubisoft used Dominion for a lot of the marketing. Want me to link to the launch trailer?
Your R6 comment is telling. Recently? Ranked has had dedicated servers since last year. Yeah, you clearly haven't played any previous Ubisoft games.
You sure are focused on the host advantage issue rather than the real issue of all the disconnects and host migrations. Why do you keep ignoring it and then saying P2P is just fine?When I said people read "negative reviews posted from elsewhere", I didn't mean critics... You realize there are sites where users post reviews too right? Steam? Reddit? Amazon? People who suck at the game and state it was because of peer to peer generally post bad reviews on these sites, and since people are sheeps, they tend to listen. Thats all I was saying
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
There are many reasons, but here's another that may not have been mentioned. If the game doesn't live up to expectations they don't want to be saddled with ongoing server costs, and pulling the plug early on a title like this, no matter how niche, is bad PR. I guess you have to weigh that cost against the cost of bad WoM due to no dedicated servers and make a decision.
Are you in the Preview program? I know there were some online-game related problems with the latest dash betas that MS is working on fixing.
I know what you're saying but this is a cross-platform Ubisoft game. Nobody's paying Ubisoft for an online service. If it was first-party console game then that argument would have more weight.
Are you in the Preview program? I know there were some online-game related problems with the latest dash betas that MS is working on fixing.
I know what you're saying but this is a cross-platform Ubisoft game. Nobody's paying Ubisoft for an online service. If it was first-party console game then that argument would have more weight.
How many fighting games have a 4v4 mode?
Your R6 comment is telling. Recently? Ranked has had dedicated servers since last year. Yeah, you clearly haven't played any previous Ubisoft games.
You sure are focused on the host advantage issue rather than the real issue of all the disconnects and host migrations. Why do you keep ignoring it and then saying P2P is just fine?
I think you're forgetting its not a traditional peer to peer system. You can read more here: They have a nice big diagram drawn out just for you. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1571773-Q-amp-A-on-For-Honor-s-Online-System
Like I said, I never played any of Ubisoft's previous games (Because none of them are my style of gaming?), so not sure what you're point is exactly.. i simply read it in one of their new updates they announced.
Disconnects will happen with dedicated servers as well. There will literally be 0 difference when players quit in dedicated servers vs players quitting in peer to peer. In the 30 hours from beta, 30 hours from open beta, and 60+ hours at launch, I've been disconnected from a game for a total of 3-4 times? Usually when a player quits a game, it pauses for 3 seconds, and replaces that player with a bot. Sounds like people who get disconnected very frequently don't have the suggested ports open, have a bigger problem with their network, or just have insanely bad luck. I play on PC btw, not sure how it is on consoles.
TLDR; peer to peer isn't perfect, but people make it out to be a bigger problem than it really is
Not the best comparison. CoD 1 had dedicated servers. It definitely wasn't an oversight, it was a business decision.
eyeball_kid
Member
Really? I see this opinion often and it always lacks any evidence. Do you have a breakdown of server infrastructure costs for a game of this scale?
And also, what are our Playstation Network costs going towards, if not for network infrastructure?
UziTheBeast
Banned
Does the biggest multiplayer of the year (COD) have dedicated servers? Doesn't seem so. Not 100% ay least.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Lol. Your silly condescension isn't helping your argument. The hybrid system their using isn't stopping all the disconnects, just removing host advantage. If it looks and acts like a P2P system, then what's the point of trying to argue it's a different kind P2P system?
You accuse others of knowing what they're talking about and yet you make an argument based on false information.
If you can't see my point then you should try to raise your reading comprehension. It would also help you to read updates better.
Oh really? Please show me a Overwatch or Battlefield 1 match that pauses the game for host migration. I'll wait.
You can open up a twitch stream or watch a YouTube let's play to see how many disconnects your average person gets since you clearly think it's not an issue.
I've watched tons of twitch streams including Sacriel, strippin, lirik, truetalent and while there are network errors, its only about 1 every 10 matches or so. Half the time, they arent even disconnects. The game pauses for a bit, and replaces a player with a bot if they rage quit or DC. Like I said, I actually PLAY the game with friends and solo, and I don't get these disconnects very frequently. I play on PC.. im not sure how the disconnects are on console. How about you? Do you even play?
You can't compare an FPS to a fighting game lol. Your argument is simply invalid.
While I mentioned rainbow six siege, their secondary services still used peer to peer, but they are fully transitioning over with the next update (Whenever that is). Once again, this has nothing to do with anything. The only reason I brought up rainbow six siege in the first place, was that For Honor might follow the same formula when they release THEIR ranked mode.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Doesn't affect sales.
We have call of duty, a huge multi million dollar franchise running at 10hz network update in 2017 so who gives a fuck.
We have call of duty, a huge multi million dollar franchise running at 10hz network update in 2017 so who gives a fuck.
LukasTaves
Member
I didn't liked 1x1 that much.
It always matches me with people that don't know how to play and that's just not fun.
I had a few private matches with my brother and it was nice, though.
That's the thing, there's like 150k playing at a time and the matchmaking still sucks. I have a far better experience with games I know that has a lesser population like Gigantic.
I was in the preview, but end up leaving due this network problems. The console would not connect at all, not even to download new updates, or install games though Seeing who's online and browsing the store was fine. And online games though they were offline as well.
Saucycarpdog
Member
More like 3 out of the 10 matches I've seen. And host migration wouldn't happen on dedicated servers.
And yes I do. That fact that you have to keep reverting to this accusation shows your lack of real arguments.
Your reading comprehension still needs work. We're not doing a FPS vs fighting game comparison, we're doing a P2P vs DS comparison.
But if you're going to try to twist the argument, then by all means find a fighting game that uses dedicated servers and show host migration when someone quits. Again I'll wait.
Perhaps next time you should read things before trying to use them in an argument. Just some friendly advice.
R6 Siege had dedicated servers at launch. Why can't For Honor do the same? Again what's the point in saying P2P works just fine but then turning around and say they'll come later for Ranked? Why can't normal have it too?
There is no point in comparing Overwatch to For Honor. Most fighting games nowadays run off peer to peer simply because its better. This is a fact. Like I said 100x, there is a reason they used a modified version of peer to peer, because there are other modes such as 2 v 2 and 4 v 4. While it's not the best right now and while there are network errors, they said they'll adjust it if necessary over time. Am I supporting peer to peer? No im not.. but like i said, people make it more of a problem than it actually really is. The game being a blast makes up for those network errors that occasionally occur once in a while. No one is forcing anyone to pay $60 for a "game full of errors". There were a ton of beta tests (with friend invites) and a free open beta weekend for everyone and anyone to try out. The people who were interested in the game bought it... THUS the healthy population across all platforms. The people that complain (incl you) are in the minority.
Perhaps, you should actually load up the game and play instead of watching twitch streams...counting how many times people get network errors and then reporting it back here
LukasTaves
Member
It happens a lot to me. It's usually after one of those pauses after a player connects or disconnects. The game seems to be out of sync for a while (extreme stuttering) and then I get disconnected. It happens when playing with friends too, very often two or three ends up disconnected.
It used to happen but not often, but since yesterday it's been unbearable, the majority of my matches are riddled with problems. And 1 or 2 out of ten are fine.
Saucycarpdog
Member
If the devs are acknowledging the problem and saying they'll be adjusting it, then I guess I'm not in the minority. They obviously see it as hampering the experience to the average player.
I do and I have the same problems as the average streamer. Pray tell why would think my experience would be different?Perhaps, you should actually load up the game and play instead of watching twitch streams...counting how many times people get network errors and then reporting it back here
Jawmuncher
Member
IMO if you're a $60 MP centric game and trying to gain an actual foothold and from a major publsiher like Acti, EA, or Ubi. You should have some damn dedicated servers.
If the devs are acknowledging the problem and saying they'll be adjusting it, then I guess I'm not in the minority. They obviously see it as hampering the experience to the average player.
I do and I have the same problems as the average streamer. Pray tell why would think my experience would be different?
See, I can bring out the "nice reading comprehension" line too. Never once said they are acknowledging "the problem".. but instead that they will adjust if they see fit overtime
Heres a quote taken straight from the article with the big diagram drawn specifically for you:
"Infrastructure stabilization is something that development teams will continue to work on, even after launch, to make sure that everything runs smoothly. Once the game is launched the servers and architecture will be heavily stressed and we might encounter issues never faced before but as always, working on those potential issues will be a major priority for the team."
Like I said, some people have network issues.. some people just suck at the game and blame p2p, and some people don't have any issues. The people who are actually enjoying the game are in the game playing (the majority).. the people that are complaining about p2p are in the minority (you), and then there are a few who can't even matchmake.
In my opinion, if you're having a ton of network issues then you're probably not playing 1v1 or 2v2 and if that's the case then why bother? I have no idea how people can enjoy the 4v4 modes, they're terrible and clearly not what the game was designed around.
It's fine if people like it, I just don't get it. It's 0 fun and just feels messy.
It's fine if people like it, I just don't get it. It's 0 fun and just feels messy.
1s and 2s are my favorite.. but dominions really fun with friends. Since theres 3 different points, it usually means having even battles or 2 v 1 most of the time.. but even then the only time i get network issues (not even a issue) is when someone leaves and pauses for 3s to replace with a bot. Elim/Skirmish on the other hand are trash modes... brb lemme stack sprint speed, run for all the powerups, 2 v 1 and revive
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
Profit for Sony?
Saucycarpdog
Member
So your argument has now been reduced to "your complaints are in the minority". A hilarious argument since you have no proof that no one else playing the game is voicing these complaints, it's one always used as a last resort.
I think we're done here. You've obviously exhausted every counter argument you can and are now just saying my argument doesn't matter. By doing that though, you're admitting that you have no counterpoint.
Matchmaking + ensuring that when you play with friends you find a server with enough slots and that it groups you on the same team.
Harder to do both those things without some central server dictating where it places you.
Yes we are done here. 400k players across all 3 platforms.. so yes the people that complain are in the minority... But that goes for every single video game out there.. not just for honor. Have a good day
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Not surprising at all, one of the many reasons I dont play online that much anymore.
There is no point in comparing Overwatch to For Honor. Most fighting games nowadays run off peer to peer simply because its better. This is a fact. Like I said 100x, there is a reason they used a modified version of peer to peer, because there are other modes such as 2 v 2 and 4 v 4. While it's not the best right now and while there are network errors, they said they'll adjust it if necessary over time. Am I supporting peer to peer? No im not.. but like i said, people make it more of a problem than it actually really is. The game being a blast makes up for those network errors that occasionally occur once in a while. No one is forcing anyone to pay $60 for a "game full of errors". There were a ton of beta tests (with friend invites) and a free open beta weekend for everyone and anyone to try out. The people who were interested in the game bought it... THUS the healthy population across all platforms. The people that complain (incl you) are in the minority.
Perhaps, you should actually load up the game and play instead of watching twitch streams...counting how many times people get network errors and then reporting it back here
Noob question, why is it better?
Heres a good read someone posted on the For Honor reddit on why peer to peer isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/5smw5t/peer_to_peer_negativity_is_over_hyped/
Shambala
Member
Damn where did uncharted touch u? Show me on the doll lol
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Dedicated servers, not For Honor but for you~
Why is it better tho?
Click the link perhaps?
But then you have the top post mostly debunking mostly everything in the OP as wrong
No doubt pro and cons to each but you stated it's flat out better, but I fail to see between pro and cons how it's flat out better.
Bonus:
brokenbeans
Banned
Well I do but Acti don't so that's all that matters unfortunately.
Why do you think every fighting game uses peer to peer? A dedicated server is good for a game with multiple players on the screen ( which would work for 4 v 4 modes) to smooth out the connection if a player has a bad connection, but in 1 v 1 and possibly 2 v 2 peer to peer is better since there is nothing to really smooth out. All dedicated servers would do in 1 v 1 and 2 v 2 would delay response time.. and response time is very important in this game. While they're using a modified peer to peer system in For Honor, nobody knows the exacts specifics aside from ubisoft. We can copy and paste quotes all day long, the fact of the matter is that 1) They're using a modified version of it. 2) Theres no host advantage. 3) They said they'll make adjustments along the way if necessary.. (which i think they will when ranked comes out).
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