Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Immigration in all countries are brutal... But I have lived here for 9 years and know the dark evil side of Japan and they are fully capable of this
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Japan's Immigration Control: A Gulag straight out of war times
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Immigration in all countries are brutal... But I have lived here for 9 years and know the dark evil side of Japan and they are fully capable of this
The "press club" side of things has always seemed terribly shady to me, at least. Inasmuch, perhaps, as it seems like a formalisation of stuff that happens ad hoc elsewhere in the world.
What good is demanding an attorney if they'll just find a corrupt/paid-for attorney that demands you sign the document anyway?
ITT certain peoples' perceptions of Japan being anime techno wonderland are being put to the test.
I would like to see some investigative journalism done on this story. It seems like the airline was as actively involved in things as the authorities, if one were to take the story at face value.
I would like to see some investigative journalism done on this story. It seems like the airline was as actively involved in things as the authorities, if one were to take the story at face value.
Quadrangulum
Banned
That's an interesting way of characterizing the skeptics, at least based on the content of their posts.
You work for a Japanese company, no doubt speak Japanese and by your avatar look like a pretty good looking guy.
Must be a good life down there in Fukuoka.
Japan is a police state. The metrics used to measure freedom are inaccurate and deceiving. Japan is more or less where the US is heading except with better social services. That said, I still would choose to live here if I can find a job after graduation, I lived in worse countries and gone thru worse immigration procedures than Japan's.
You work for a Japanese company, no doubt speak Japanese and by your avatar look like a pretty good looking guy.
Must be a good life down there in Fukuoka.
Well, I got a job at what I love the most (making games). My workmates are (from what I've seen so far) great, and the city isn't bad at all (though not nearly as much stuff to do as in Osaka or Tokyo). So yeah.
It's not perfect, but there's no perfect place so I might as well stay here. I might go to Tokyo in a few years (same company, different offices building), but for now I'm enjoying it here.
Pachterballs
Banned
read a little bit then scrolled down and read the other article questioning his visa status and ... then I lost interest. If he did/was legally allowed to be in there/work etc; like he infered in the last paragraph of "innocent voices"; why didn't he mention that anywhere?
I think everyone agrees that treatment, we're it true, is horrific. It's just that the guys story is shady for all sorts of reasons. I don't have a horse in the weeaboo race, but he sounds like he's exaggerating about the conditions and straight up lying about his innocence. There is ZERO legal or technical reason to hide the existence of a valid visa. Only the contrary.
i would ask for some stories but i'm afraid of the same thing happening to you.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
His visa status is a null point although it would explain why he was pulled aside so quickly. A computer search would immediately determine if his papers are not in order. Bottom line is that he didn't deserve the treatment he was given. While its easy to say if he did X then Y may not have happened, we really don't know all the details surrounding his case. Why would someone embelish a story like this just for attention. Why do people think this guy needs an agenda to report on his experiences with Japan's immigration?
Japan probe is not a site I would directly quote as fact here. The site is pretty biased and it is written and moderated more like a personal blog rather than a proper news site. I do like that the site is a good way for people not living here to absorb a lot of neat aspects of Japanese culture and TV but it just seems like it has some kind of agenda or axe to grind about the safety of nuclear energy and the discussion centering around fallout in Fukushima/northern Japan.
I've heard of similar stories to the one in the OP. Japan has a long way to go when it come to treatment of prisoners, arrested suspects, and immigration policies. But a word of warning if you do plan to visit/live in Japan for an extended period of time, keep your papers up to date and make sure not to do anything that could be considered as illegal here. Things taken for granted in your home country may not fly here. For most visiters they will never notice or see the dark underbelly of the justice system here. I wouldn't worry about it if you are planning a short tourist visit. You'll most likely go through the system without a hitch.
Japan probe is not a site I would directly quote as fact here. The site is pretty biased and it is written and moderated more like a personal blog rather than a proper news site. I do like that the site is a good way for people not living here to absorb a lot of neat aspects of Japanese culture and TV but it just seems like it has some kind of agenda or axe to grind about the safety of nuclear energy and the discussion centering around fallout in Fukushima/northern Japan.
I've heard of similar stories to the one in the OP. Japan has a long way to go when it come to treatment of prisoners, arrested suspects, and immigration policies. But a word of warning if you do plan to visit/live in Japan for an extended period of time, keep your papers up to date and make sure not to do anything that could be considered as illegal here. Things taken for granted in your home country may not fly here. For most visiters they will never notice or see the dark underbelly of the justice system here. I wouldn't worry about it if you are planning a short tourist visit. You'll most likely go through the system without a hitch.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's just that it's suspect. The guy admitted that he wasn't fluent in Japanese in his part about calling for a translator, yet he quotes people who spoke to him in Japanese about fairly difficult subjects.
Nevermind the fact that the guy is obviously very emotional about this issue. He was forced to spend a bunch of money to go back to Canada and leave behind his dog and girlfriend after he had already planned a fun vacation. He's sad and angry and probably very frustrated. I'm not sure it's a good idea to take the word of a person in that emotional state at face value, especially when they refuse to divulge all of the facts.
Yeah, why would people without a visa even deserve human rights? Don't jump to conclusions people!
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
I don't know about that. I know stories of Japanese teachers who have been canned for teaching and criticizing Japan about the Rape of Nanking.
For every story like this there are a hundred or more stories of complete and utter disaster of international marriage, especially because the same sort of ass backwards laws and civil liberties you see in the OP are applied to divorce situations and it is basically a miracle if the father comes out with any sort of control over being able to see the kid. One of the famous stories recently was about a father needing to take his child to the US embassy and have the military help him 'escape' because the crazy wife would not let him even see the kid...this is where the Hague Convention steps in, and up until now Japan has not even thought of participating in it.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Really? Just because people are suspicious of a one-sided story written in a very sensationalist manner by a guy who is obviously emotional about the issue?
No one is denying that the contents of his story are horrifying. It's just that it's hard to be certain he wasn't embellishing on the facts a bit.
Oh, there's no doubt about that. A 99% conviction rate is just insane.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Didn't they only add jurors to the legal system in 2009? Then there's the something like 95% conviction rate.
Yep, six juro members are now in the courtroom... But "lay judges will only be used to try the most serious crimes." so it's still far from perfect system. And long as substitute prison system is in place things won't get any better.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Whoa, they still do canings?
Canned... not caned. And you're thinking of Singapore.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
There's holes in his story, but the real disturbing aspects of the whole thing are that Immigration Control seems to work without any oversight, despite several really dodgy cases in the past.
And I can see how the Japanese Government would prefer to sweep this under the rug.
And I can see how the Japanese Government would prefer to sweep this under the rug.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
From experience, Japanese immigration dudes are people you don't want to mess with. Make sure everything's cool, make sure you've got your visas/landing passes/etc in check and then just hope for the smoothest possible sailing.
In Narita I was once taken into a room for a "random check." It was a good cop/bad cop routine of "tell us where you were/who you met/etc" and "if you just tell us everything you'll be free to go soon." It lasted for 10-15 mins before I showed them my passport and they let me go. I suspect that with my long hair and beard they were just doing some ill-thought out racial profiling, and thankfully British passports solve most problems.
The second time I got called up when I moved from Korea to Japan because I had 3 months worth of medication in my bags. Thank fuck for the English translation on my Korean prescriptions.
Fucking around with your visas/landing passes/etc in Asia is on par with drugs offences as far as immigration is concerned. You simply cannot fuck around with it.
In Narita I was once taken into a room for a "random check." It was a good cop/bad cop routine of "tell us where you were/who you met/etc" and "if you just tell us everything you'll be free to go soon." It lasted for 10-15 mins before I showed them my passport and they let me go. I suspect that with my long hair and beard they were just doing some ill-thought out racial profiling, and thankfully British passports solve most problems.
I'm not even Arabic/Middle Eastern either.
The second time I got called up when I moved from Korea to Japan because I had 3 months worth of medication in my bags. Thank fuck for the English translation on my Korean prescriptions.
Fucking around with your visas/landing passes/etc in Asia is on par with drugs offences as far as immigration is concerned. You simply cannot fuck around with it.
I'll guess part of this refers to me because I've been 'defending' Japan. I'm not saying what they did is good. Hell, it's pretty messed up. The only thing I'm saying is it's hard to take this story 100% seriously when he doesn't want to talk about the visa status, and some of the wording in the story is ridiculously melodramatic and there might be certain areas where he exaggerated to make it sound worse than it was.
Again, that doesn't mean that if this story is true, is incredibly messed up.
Edit: I'm not saying this story is 'impossible' either. I wouldn't doubt something like this happening in a bunch of countries (my homeland included).
And I just noticed I got called japanophile somewhere else because of this thread. Hahahah
All said and done.
To add to it: I am always amazed when I meet English teachers here in Japan (not the official JET whatever people). A whole lot of them are teaching English here on a tourist visa, border-hopping every 90 days (Germans, Austrians and Swiss people every 180 days) to Korea, Taiwan, HK etc. Good riddance I say, and good luck! I would never dare. Imagine doing that in the US or Western Europe.
Okay, sorry, fuck this. As I said, what they did is inexcusable even if the guy didn't have a valid visa. They did have the right to kick him out of the country if he lacked the paperwork or whatever, but this is really, really, not the reason people are outraged over this.
Anyone claiming that the article is irrelevant because he doesn't specify his visa status, is either a Japanist nationalist, Japan apologist or an idiot - Take you pick!
Bomber Bob
Banned
This summer i got my working permit revoken only because i left japan for more than 1 month (of course I had the reentry permit, I did nothing illegal) only because I met some lunatic immigration officier when I had to renew the visa.
But other that this I had no problem whatsoever.
But other that this I had no problem whatsoever.
Doesn't really matter if his visa had expired or not, they still treated him horribly, if all he says is true. Sure, he could've avoided all of this if his visa hadn't expired, but that's no excuse to giving that kind of treatment to anyone.
For some reason none of this surprises me. And Japanese airport workers are the biggest dicks in the world so not even the Asiana employee's behaviour is particularly shocking to me.
I thought they were all bows and smiles.
Mr. E. Yis
Banned
This guy's story, missing info, and agenda make it seem dramatized and embellished, but i wouldn't doubt that something like this happens all the time, in ANY country. I've worked for an airline at one of the biggest airports in the U.S., most of the time I spent working in the immigration hall. I've seen with my own eyes how poorly people without visas were treated by the officers, and how they were 'detained', then shipped back. Someone from the outside would never know a thing of what happens. If it could happen in our country, you better believe it's just as bad or worse in any other.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Japan Probe is such a shitty site, run by a guy who so desires to be Japanese that he will defend them against any criticism.
Upsidedown Fuji
Member
Yep as I mentioned earlier up is a site with an agenda. Not the place you should be looking for straight facts in. I am glad I am not the only one who understands this.
the du is definitely biased towards the japanese in some articles but i always thought JP was pretty good.
i've been to japan twice on two different visas and never had any problems apart from the ridiculous lines and occasional dirty looks. i also somehow forgot a suitcase once in the terminal (jetlag) and didn't realise i had forgotten it until about 2 mins later - a mad, panic-filled run back saw it in the exact spot i left it in. any other country and i'd wager it would have been stolen or had a bomb disposal squad looking at it.
i've been to japan twice on two different visas and never had any problems apart from the ridiculous lines and occasional dirty looks. i also somehow forgot a suitcase once in the terminal (jetlag) and didn't realise i had forgotten it until about 2 mins later - a mad, panic-filled run back saw it in the exact spot i left it in. any other country and i'd wager it would have been stolen or had a bomb disposal squad looking at it.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
That's some frightening stuff. I love the guy's narrative. He's a really good writer.
IrishNinja
Member
i know you're joking here, chinner, but every year, so many gaijin enter glorious nippon and bring it dishonor; just thinking about it makes me want to commit public sodoku~
i'm an expert etc
Kong Fisso
Banned
japanprobe selectively only deals with the visa part.
What about the treated like shit part? Please, people, use your fucking brains.
What about the treated like shit part? Please, people, use your fucking brains.
I don't think anybody here is even remotely suggesting the bad treatment part wasn't wrong or anything like that. There's nothing to really say about it, other than that it's messed up.
The only possible 'discussion' is that the author didn't (for whatever reason) mention what probably was the main issue in this whole deal, and that's kind of important. And because of some of the melodramatic writing, maybe (again, MAYBE) he just exaggerated some of the stuff he said. If it ever happened, it surely was a shitty experience, but it makes some people wonder how much of it was true.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I wouldn't be shocked if he was a 100% true with it.. it is known that a lot of "private security" companies are yaks..
Also they do hem people up without allowing access to the outside world so often.. sure a lot of them have had visa problems but that doesn't eliminate their rights off the bat
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
i would ask for some stories but i'm afraid of the same thing happening to you.
nothing to me.. but I do have to reup my visa this month! :O
Me too -_-
Synth_floyd
Banned
Immigration laws suck. Every country is so god damn racist and hates foreigners. If I want to live in another country I should be able to without the government making me get permission.
Issue is not the laws but the treatment of the people.
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