Support NeoGAF

[TGMIII]

The way stats scale are the primary failure of D3 that still exists due to necessity, sadly.

I'm not sure how you can be aware of this and then still say that D3's mechanics are better than others in the series. It's not just stats that are a huge issue in the game. Spell interactivity, elemental effects and the amount of reasonably viable builds are also massive issues.
Don't get me wrong, there's always going to be the upper tier of builds that makes the rest not seem worthwhile but I've certainly found that PoE and Grim Dawn are much better in that regard.

There's also the fact that blizzard are being massively outdone in content by the PoE team with how they're handling races, seasons, rewards and general content updates both in playable content, mechanic updates and spells. Blizzard could stand to do a much better job and I know they're more than capable of doing it both from a financial point of view and the actual skill set of the team.

I've mostly enjoyed my time with D3, even with all the issues, and I'm still hoping that blizzard take notes from other titles going onward but if we do see another D3 expansion I'm sure the rest of the missing content datamined from the vanilla beta will suddenly show up.

 

[Firemind]

"Elemental types mattering" basically only means "Hey, you have to switcht o your one shittier skill against this one mob because it RNG is immune to fire"

Attack rating and recovery speed are similar, all of these stats 'mattering' actually just means it feels fucking awful not to have them. Pretty solid design. It's fun not to be able to hit enemies without attack rating, or to get stunlocked without X recovery speed.

Not sure what the WD comment is even supposed to mean. Necromancers were the most boring D2 class and would be the most boring D3 class if they existed, as well as melting computers just like in D2.

Meanwhile, D2 has such awesome problems as: 2 active skills at once. 20 point talent systems meaning that you effectively only get a couple skills at all, besides one point wonders. lack of power in items, leaving you with only a few things that actually matter (the whole game basically devolves into +skill items, speaking of...) Charms, the stupidest god damn thing in the world. Immunities, recovery speed, synergies, all designed just to make you feel less powerful. Useless gems and runewords for most of the life of the game. Ethereal items, it's like if Ancient Items were actually a 5% chance to get a WORSE item most of the time, dope.

So mechanics that can affect you negatively are bad game design. Why let Mario jump when it can kill him? Why have Ghosts in Pac-Man? Why even play video games at all?

I think it's funny when you say only a select skills matter when D3 currently revolves around 6 set item bonuses, some of which are so outclassed until they inevitably up the numbers. That's the thing. Blizzard North didn't give a shit about balancing classes and items, because there's always going to be a more efficient build than others. Couple that with D3's limitations on trading and the paragon mechanics which promote efficient leeching, it's basically a game for communists. Yay, I can choose whatever skill I like. Who gives a fuck when your skills are garbo without set bonuses?

 

[TheYanger]

I'm not sure how you can be aware of this and then still say that D3's mechanics are better than others in the series. It's not just stats that are a huge issue in the game. Spell interactivity, elemental effects and the amount of reasonably viable builds are also massive issues.
Don't get me wrong, there's always going to be the upper tier of builds that makes the rest not seem worthwhile but I've certainly found that PoE and Grim Dawn are much better in that regard.

There's also the fact that blizzard are being massively outdone in content by the PoE team with how they're handling races, seasons, rewards and general content updates both in playable content, mechanic updates and spells. Blizzard could stand to do a much better job and I know they're more than capable of doing it both from a financial point of view and the actual skill set of the team.

I've mostly enjoyed my time with D3, even with all the issues, and I'm still hoping that blizzard take notes from other titles going onward but if we do see another D3 expansion I'm sure the rest of the missing content datamined from the vanilla beta will suddenly show up.

"Spell interactivity" ? You realize the previous games in the series literally just gave you one 'spell' active at a time? D2 gave you a left clikc and a right click and you had to cycle to use anything else, even something like an aura you had to have active (costing you your right click). What a fucking joke to pretend that's more interactive.

My sick barb build once ladders got put in:
Mousewheel up shout, mousewheel up shout 2, mousewheel up shout 3, mousewheel up shout 4, mousewheel up to be on leap and ready to go for a fight, spam concentration or berzerk on single enemies. Mousewheel up again to hork the bodies once I'm done. Repeat, or repeat midcombat if shouts are wearing off. Sick interactivity wtih those skills.

 

[TGMIII]

"Spell interactivity" ? You realize the previous games in the series literally just gave you one 'spell' active at a time? D2 gave you a left clikc and a right click and you had to cycle to use anything else, even something like an aura you had to have active (costing you your right click). What a fucking joke to pretend that's more interactive.

My sick barb build once ladders got put in:
Mousewheel up shout, mousewheel up shout 2, mousewheel up shout 3, mousewheel up shout 4, mousewheel up to be on leap and ready to go for a fight, spam concentration or berzerk on single enemies. Mousewheel up again to hork the bodies once I'm done. Repeat, or repeat midcombat if shouts are wearing off. Sick interactivity wtih those skills.

Where did I say anything about D2? I'm mostly talking about how PoE handles things.

Why are you acting so aggressive as if its a personal attack on you?

 

[Nerokis]

I wish him all the best. As flawed as vanilla D3 ended up being, there was much fun to be had there, and it sparked a lot of interesting discussion. It saddens me how much people demonize this guy, because I'm pretty sure he tried his best, and I doubt all of D3's issues came down to him.

Hopefully he looks back at his time in the industry fondly.

 

[Matthew23]

I'm sure he actually had very little choice in the matter considering Metzen is their go to writer when it comes to their games. If Blizz says Metzen will be deployed, whoever is directing better accept it.

This has always been my impression. He reminds me of George Lucas in that I loved the early work but now I wish someone else would take over.

 

[TheYanger]

Where did I say anything about D2? I'm mostly talking about how PoE handles things.

Why are you acting so aggressive as if its a personal attack on you?

PoE doesn't do much better than D2. You load up a bunch of passives, drop your max mana pool, and you have a bunch of single skills that don't have much interactivity. I'm not acting aggressive? Disagreement isn't aggression. The notion that somehow PoE has some deep complex interactions between abilities is farcical, these games are all fairly basic at their core, the uniqueness of the skills is what sets D3 apart. PoE is largely the same kinds of boring abilities we've had for a decade, there are just a lot of them and the socketing gear system makes it a bit more interesting. D3 has some crazy fucking skills in comparison.

 

[Nerokis]

This has always been my impression. He reminds me of George Lucas in that I loved the early work but now I wish someone else would take over.

I think Metzen's comic book-y style suits Blizzard's games pretty well, and at least consistently feels heartfelt. But yeah, his work in recent years has been pretty below par, and I would much rather the bulk of the writing be in other people's hands.

 

[TGMIII]

PoE doesn't do much better than D2. You load up a bunch of passives, drop your max mana pool, and you have a bunch of single skills that don't have much interactivity. I'm not acting aggressive? Disagreement isn't aggression. The notion that somehow PoE has some deep complex interactions between abilities is farcical, these games are all fairly basic at their core, the uniqueness of the skills is what sets D3 apart. PoE is largely the same kinds of boring abilities we've had for a decade, there are just a lot of them and the socketing gear system makes it a bit more interesting. D3 has some crazy fucking skills in comparison.

Can you give me any examples because I truthfully can not think of any that in comparison to recent ARPGs could be described as "crazy"

I think the core of D3, the actual act of interacting with an enemy, is the best it has ever been in the genre. The feel of fighting things is fantastic but I think it falls apart in nearly every other regard.

 

[Rajack]

I think Metzen's comic book-y style suits Blizzard's games pretty well, and at least consistently feels heartfelt. But yeah, his work in recent years has been pretty below par, and I would much rather the bulk of the writing be in other people's hands.

I personally think he might be in a slump.

 

[Berordn]

This has always been my impression. He reminds me of George Lucas in that I loved the early work but now I wish someone else would take over.

I bought the WoW Chronicle book because I thought it'd give me more backstory from some of the underutilized writers, like the quest guys who seem to be on point more often than the main story arcs.

Instead I got characters from Ulduar reenacting the plot to Starcraft 2.

 

[newtypepilot]

Wasn't this guy so arrogant that he told fans to "fuck off"??

His passion is writing? hahahaha, considering how cheesy D3's story was, good luck with that.

I mean, he's not solely responsible for all the mess in D3, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't deserve criticism.

The AH and pathetic loot system really put a sour taste in my mouth. I remember spending more time in the AH than actually playing the game. Also, who can forget that Error 37 gem...

 

[Lux R7]

Maybe Diablo 4 has a chance of being good now.

This.

 

[Trokil]

I never said that before, but after Diablo 3 and Warlords of Draenor I have to say:

Thank you for leaving.

His obsession with rnd really hurt both games. Maybe they will return now to some proper game design and not leave everything to the random stats, number or drop generator to keep people playing.

 

[SargerusBR]

That makes me wonder what kind of book would Metzen write.

It's pretty good.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

His obsession with rnd really hurt both games. Maybe they will return now to some proper game design and not leave everything to the random stats, number or drop generator to keep people playing.

What else would you have them do in a game like Diablo? Outside of Diablo 1 where certain bosses/events guaranteed you got the drop, the series has always been about rng. Hell, almost the entire genre is centered around loot rng. Taking rng out would mean there is no reason to play anymore after getting the gear you're after. Is it a bad thing that these types of games want you to keep playing to get better and better items?

Sure, the way things were in 1.0 was terrible since it pushed the auction house on people and loot rng was designed around it, but things have gotten significantly better since the expac and them dropping the ah. Dropping the randomness factor would only kill the game.

 

[Trokil]

Sure, the way things were in 1.0 was terrible since it pushed the auction house on people and loot rng was designed around it, but things have gotten significantly better since the expac and them dropping the ah. Dropping the randomness factor would only kill the game.

Yes, it is now.

But this was changed during the time Jay Wilson was not responsible for Diablo anymore and he started the same random dreck with WoD. Now we have Stats, Warforged and all that crap, just to keep people playing. It used to be about the content, but WoD was lacking so much of it, they of course used the rnd carrot on a stick.

I mean, even the T-sets are now random.

 

[socksfelloff]

So his passion wasn't gaming? That's not very surprising after the state D3 launched in.

 

[strafer]

It's pretty good.

This book is up there with The Killing Joke.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Yes, it is now.

But this was changed during the time Jay Wilson was not responsible for Diablo anymore and he started the same random dreck with WoD. Now we have Stats, Warforged and all that crap, just to keep people playing. It used to be about the content, but WoD was lacking so much of it, they of course used the rnd carrot on a stick.

I mean, even the T-sets are now random.

I wasn't talking about WoW in my post, there is no defending some of the gear decisions they made in WoD. I was talking about Diablo, which things are dramatically better than how they were in 1.0.

 

[kencey]

Lol poor Jay.
Nah he fucked up D3 ... fuck that loser.

 

[The Orz]

You guys act like the only thing he did was the AH. Vanilla Diablo 3 gameplay was damn good, and is still the basis for the improved state of the game today.

You mean the game play largely based off of its predecessors? How could you mess it up?

Also, for people commenting on his writing--did he actually write any of Diablo 3?

 

[frontovik]

According to the credits, he was not responsible for the atrocious story; that would be Chris Metzen (who has this weird obsession with redemption stories and uniting against a single evil cliche)

Lead writers were Leonard Boyarsky, Michael Chu, Pat Nagle, and Valerie Watrous, none seem to have any significant writing experience except for Leonard. Therefore, I'm not surprised that the writing and story ultimately ended up being absurdly stupid.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/diablo-iii/credits

 

[-tetsuo-]

He only almost killed Diablo.

But good luck to him on what ever he does next.

Diablo 3 sold all kinds of crazy

 

[Cipherr]

And hopefully they'll work on D4 too cause they did a great job, but no matter how good they turned it, it still is inherently flawed.

Amen. Can you imagine these guys on D4 from the ground up? We would get an INFINITELY better game. Especially at the end game.

I didn't mind Vanilla D3, but I adore post RoS. They have made the game 50x better.

Eh no? Vanilla Diablo 3 was flawed RoS is better in everyway those who never played adventure mode shall not now how this game is today.

I think you are agreeing with him lol

 

[Nordicus]

Attack rating and recovery speed are similar, all of these stats 'mattering' actually just means it feels fucking awful not to have them. Pretty solid design. It's fun not to be able to hit enemies without attack rating, or to get stunlocked without X recovery speed.

Attack rating sort of stuff has been done better in games outside of Diablo, which iirc, has the formula be that both fighters being equal in offense and defense, have the hit chance of a coin flip. Admittedly, that does not feel very good

Grim Dawn and Titan Quest has hit chance and crits rolled into one stat, Offensive Ability, and roughly 100% hit chance is the standard, <90% hit chances being pretty rare occurrences outside character builds that should not be whacking things in melee, and Offensive Ability that pushes it beyond that 100% lets you character do increasingly frequent and harder crits.

It is another system that contributes to staving off the sort of HP/attack inflation D3 has, by having harder bosses' and higher level minions' defensive ability eat up your characters crit chances and multipliers. Well, slightly anyway, no one change in mechanics can help that system going into billions

 

[LCGeek]

What else would you have them do in a game like Diablo? Outside of Diablo 1 where certain bosses/events guaranteed you got the drop, the series has always been about rng. Hell, almost the entire genre is centered around loot rng. Taking rng out would mean there is no reason to play anymore after getting the gear you're after. Is it a bad thing that these types of games want you to keep playing to get better and better items?

Sure, the way things were in 1.0 was terrible since it pushed the auction house on people and loot rng was designed around it, but things have gotten significantly better since the expac and them dropping the ah. Dropping the randomness factor would only kill the game.

The problem as good grinder will say you end in situation needing perfect rolls. Any other wizard in here want to argue with me over the sheer stupidity of cubing and using kadala to the max but still ending up with nothing or shit rolls.

The RNG itself isn't the problem but when you rig the game in a dumb manner like blizz it rubs people the wrong way. There are no shortages of stories on their own forums even in this season of people doing a decent grind and ending up with shit. They should really address rng so that people still don't end up with crap rolls or nothing at a certain point. Case in point WOH. Never saw one for 4 fucking seasons of my own grinding, s5 and s6 they are popping out like hot cakes.

Diablo 3 sold all kinds of crazy

Isn't it like above 30mil at this point?

 

[TheYanger]

Attack rating sort of stuff has been done better in games outside of Diablo, which iirc, has the formula be that both fighters being equal in offense and defense, have the hit chance of a coin flip. Admittedly, that does not feel very good

Grim Dawn and Titan Quest has hit chance and crits rolled into one stat, Offensive Ability, and roughly 100% hit chance is the standard, <90% hit chances being pretty rare occurrences outside character builds that should not be whacking things in melee, and Offensive Ability that pushes it beyond that 100% lets you character do increasingly frequent and harder crits.

It is another system that contributes to staving off the sort of HP/attack inflation D3 has, by having harder bosses' and higher level minions' defensive ability eat up your characters crit chances and multipliers. Well, slightly anyway, no one change in mechanics can help that system going into billions

Those stats aren't the reason why, those only affect your dexterity requirements, stats simply didn't scale to the level they do in D3, and there don't exist as many dps stats to scale multiplicatively with each other. Skills basically didn't scale off of stats, and instead only off of minus resists on the enemies and +skill level, it was all very flat because of this. this is also partly why build diversity was 'good' - because everything sucked and the game was easy to accomodate it.

Look at one of the 'best' D2 items:

+2 To All Skills
+ (1.5 Per Character Level) 1-148 To Life (Based On Character Level)
+ (1.5 Per Character Level) 1-148 To Mana (Based On Character Level)
Damage Reduced By 10%
50% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+2 To All Attributes

Like...that barely increases your player power aside from the MF and the +2 to all skills.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

If he was the one that decided Cain was to die by some two-bit throwaway baddie, then the world is a better place.

I still want to stay awhile and listen

 

[CharminUltra]

If he was the one that decided Cain was to die by some two-bit throwaway baddie, then the world is a better place.

I still want to stay awhile and listen

Ajdjhgd thanks for reminding me that this is a stupid thing that someone signed off on

 

[sega4ever]

You say that like post-expansion D3 isn't incredible.

diablo 2 post expansion was incredible and that didn't stop blizzard from making a terrible diablo game.

 

[TheYanger]

diablo 2 post expansion was incredible and that didn't stop blizzard from making a terrible diablo game.

Diablo 3 RoS is unequivocally better than D2 LOD. D3 base wasn't, but it wasn't 'terrible' either.

 

[Lernaean]

Diablo 3 RoS is unequivocally better than D2 LOD.

Really hard to disagree here. Nostalgia has led to many false assumptions about how good D2 was.

 

[TatteredHat]

Diablo 3 RoS is unequivocally better than D2 LOD.

This part I can agree with, even though I think at this point RoS has run its course, the seasons don't do enough to keep the game interesting anymore.

D3 base wasn't, but it wasn't 'terrible' either.

This though, god no. D3 base was the biggest gaming letdown I've had in a decade. Playing a Monk in Vanilla was awful, awful I tell you.

 

[Other]

Can he take Metzen and Celestion with him?

 

[sega4ever]

Diablo 3 RoS is unequivocally better than D2 LOD. D3 base wasn't, but it wasn't 'terrible' either.

i hope diablo 4 goes back to the patter of good game then an awesome expansion like D2 LOD instead of the diablo 3 model.

and ya, vanilla diablo 3 was terrible.

real money auction house (i liked the normal auction house)
loot drops based around the auction house
bad uniques/set items
very low drop rate of uniques/set items
unbalanced hardest difficulty
life + main stat being the only thing that mattered on gear
farming spots that are not PvE getting nerfed (goblin, pots)
blue items being better than rarer items (had highest dps mods)
no dedicated summoning class

 

[TheYanger]

Really hard to disagree here. Nostalgia has led to many false assumptions about how good D2 was.

Yep. You can debate the merits of release D3 or not, I think to call it 'terrible' is hyperbole and a half, but to shit on RoS and pretend LoD was better is fucking comically obvious how much it's colored by the 'I hate d3' mentality some people still have. Base D2 was a great game that you would stop playing after a month or two. There was little to no depth beyond progressing through hell, items were bad and boring, builds were boring, etc. The game aws fun but it would've had 'endgame' complaints were it released today. Meanwhile D3 actually DID have an endgame, it just had a lot of busted parts of it, and they fixed it a few months later. At launch inferno really broke down adn the game became busted, before that point? it was strictly better than D2 (story aside, of course, though D2 has the benefit of keeping it a ot simpler, a good decision).

LoD did for baseD2 much the same sort of thing that RoS did for D3, except that RoS went way above and beyond, adventure mode is a great addition, bounties and rifts and greater rifts push so much more replayability into the game, and itemization is a big step up over even LoD.

If you were to graph the relative quality of each Diablo release, I think it would be hard to argue against it going something like this from any objective angle (subjectively I don't give a damn what people think, opinions aren't worth trying to argue against).

 

[Firemind]

That's where we differ in. Once you get the six set pieces, which is comically easy, you immediately jump to T8-10. After you get the rest of the items and finish the season challenges, you're basically done with the season. There's nothing else hugely rewarding unless you really want to go for the ladder, which is a huge time sink because of the various mechanics in place, cheaters and lack of trading. The only thing that is keeping the game alive are the patch updates.

I'm willing to bet that when they stop patching it and the next game comes out, it won't be played as much as D2 today because of the simple fact D2 is more social. Progressing through D2 actually feels natural as opposed to D3 where 1-69 is basically a stopgap until the real game. That's bullshit game design. Paragon levels are bullshit because every level after 800 increases your main stat. Everything before that, it increases such desired stats as max resource, life regen and gold find. Bounties are bullshit because instead of playing in groups, you split the group to maximize efficiency. Greater rifts are bullshit because of the importance of mob density, pylons and type of rift guardian. Ancients are bullshit because of the lack of trading and the randomness. Augmentation is bullshit because of the monumental requirements to gain more mainstat.

D3's endgame is bullshit.

 

[OmegaDL50]

You say that like post-expansion D3 isn't incredible.

Pretty much everything post-Jay Wilson stepping down from the Diablo 3 project in of itself was good overall, from the initial console release on PS3 and 360, to removal of the Auction House, and overall improved loot and gameplay mechanics and the eventual release of Reaper of Souls.

Diablo 3 is a drastically different game than what it was at launch. You can pretty much tell from those that experienced Diablo 3 RoS or those that only played the vanilla from the admission of still having the belief that Diablo 3 is still "not good"

 

[Paz]

Til people think game directors are the ones that wrote their games

If the game director didn't have a controlling hand in how Diablo 3's progression played out then that's a truly broken studio setup.

 

[Fallout-NL]

You say that like post-expansion D3 isn't incredible.

Still not as good as Diablo 2.

As for Jay Wilson, didn't he also work on Blood?

 

[TheYanger]

If the game director didn't have a controlling hand in how Diablo 3's progression played out then that's a truly broken studio setup.

Do you truly believe that Jay Wilson is to blame for the story of Diablo 3, rather than Chris Metzen? Or do you have no idea waht you're talking about?

 

[TheYanger]

That's where we differ in. Once you get the six set pieces, which is comically easy, you immediately jump to T8-10. After you get the rest of the items and finish the season challenges, you're basically done with the season. There's nothing else hugely rewarding unless you really want to go for the ladder, which is a huge time sink because of the various mechanics in place, cheaters and lack of trading. The only thing that is keeping the game alive are the patch updates.

I'm willing to bet that when they stop patching it and the next game comes out, it won't be played as much as D2 today because of the simple fact D2 is more social. Progressing through D2 actually feels natural as opposed to D3 where 1-69 is basically a stopgap until the real game. That's bullshit game design. Paragon levels are bullshit because every level after 800 increases your main stat. Everything before that, it increases such desired stats as max resource, life regen and gold find. Bounties are bullshit because instead of playing in groups, you split the group to maximize efficiency. Greater rifts are bullshit because of the importance of mob density, pylons and type of rift guardian. Ancients are bullshit because of the lack of trading and the randomness. Augmentation is bullshit because of the monumental requirements to gain more mainstat.

D3's endgame is bullshit.

You can't be fucking serious with this nonsense.
D2's endgame is farming fucking Baal over and over. or turning all your duped SoJs in to a vendor to try and spawn Uber Diablo, if they haven't changed it my endgame experience consisted of seeing what IP address I was connected to and hopping servers to find the one that was nearing the SOJ turnin limit, based on forum posts where people would relay such information. Frankly, if they have changed that (wouldn't surprise me), it's a little late don't you think?

DIABLO TWO HAS NO ENDGAME. It's just farming piss easy mobs for eternity until you get bored and quit for a few years.

It's comical that you mention that you can solo shit in D3, as if you are ever 'encouraged' to group in D2. Group rifting in D3 is a very popular and fun activity, synergies between classes are much much much stronger than in D2. Heck, in D2 I would be weaker playing with most players than I would be with Waheed my trusty Act 2 hireling. Diablo 2 is the game that literally has a chat command to simulate having more players in the game just so that you can bump the xp gain without having to interact with anyone else. Yes, it also makes the mobs harder, which doesn't matter because they die incredibly quickly and have no chance of killing you regardless outside of some pure bullshit combinations of affixes depending on your build. (Speaking of, y'know the most bullshit affixes in D3? Yeah they actually took them out instead of just leaving bullshit in the game, smart decision. Every affix has SOME amount of gameplay related to it, instead of "Immune" or "attacks and runs too fast for you to react" like D2)

Literally everything you claim is 'bullshit' in D3 doesn't even have a fucking equivilent in D2, D2 has nothing of any challenge. Gearing/progression is a steady slope because gear sucks for the most part and you don't need to ever become more powerful because the game never gets hard. The more I think about it the more laughable your argument is. "Once you have all the items you want you're done with the season" ....k? Maybe YOU are, many people keep going. I have put ~100 hours into each season to complete the journey and I'm not even close to maxxed out in any sense of the word. I'm happy with that amount of time. I mean, what a bullshit statement. Yeah, once you get everything you want to get you are done. Apply that to literally every game that has ever existed. I can arbitrarily decide when to stop in Diablo 2 as well, but it would certainly be easier to attain a shitty verison of you optimal layout in that game, does that mean you'd be done even sooner? They also don't add new shit every season there, so by that logic there hasn't been a reason to play the game in YEARS (hint, there hasn't for the most part).

EDIT: In case anyone is getting the wrong idea, I *LOVE* Diablo 2, it's one of my favorite games of all time. I still have the CE box proudly atop all my others. My point has nothing to do with thinking Diablo 2 is a bad game, it has to do with objectively analyzing what people are very clearly unable to do themselves, which is why Diablo 3 isn't shit and why Diablo 2 is best left in the past in comparison.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I think objectively analyzing the merits and the longevity of Diablo 2 and 3's endgame will give nebulous results at best. The rifts are cool, but then a lot of people are still also playing Diablo 2. What is objectively better is Diablo 2's atmosphere/mood and the way characters are built. Switching out skills on the fly gives a lot of flexibility, but it kills any sense of ownership I would have had with the character.

I know you already edited, but:

You can't be fucking serious with this nonsense.

Same could be said for you when you're shit talking one of the greatest games ever made. I mean, I get it, Diablo 3 (especially ROS) is a fine game. But acting as if it's fact that it's better than Diablo 2 is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[TheYanger]

I think objectively analyzing the merits and the longevity of Diablo 2 and 3's endgame will give nebulous results at best. The rifts are cool, but then a lot of people are still also playing Diablo 2. What is objectively better is Diablo 2's atmosphere/mood and the way characters are built. Switching out skills on the fly gives a lot of flexibility, but it kills any sense of ownership I would have had with the character.

I know you already edited, but:



Same could be said for you when you're shit talking one of the greatest games ever made. I mean, I get it, Diablo 3 (especially ROS) is a fine game. But acting as if it's fact that it's better than Diablo 2 is pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

You say you know I edited it, but you say anyway that I'm shit talking Diablo 2? gtfo with that shit, I'm pointing out the absurdity of the arguments that surround this narrative that D2 is jesus and D3 is shit. They're both fantastic games for the eras in which they were released, but D3 is objectively better than D2 classic, and D3 RoS is objectively better than D2 LOD. You can still prefer the old game, but know that it's only nostalgia driving that, and an irrational hatred of Diablo 3 because of what the game was for a brief period when it first launched (A step down from LoD in some ways, but certainly not most).

 

[Fallout-NL]

Ah, the old nostalgia argument. Great.

 

[eot]

Good riddance honestly. It became clear that he didn't understand D2 long before D3 came out. It was never going to be a worthy sequel under his reign. Maybe there's hope for D4 though.

 

[Purdy]

Can you give me any examples because I truthfully can not think of any that in comparison to recent ARPGs could be described as "crazy"

I think the core of D3, the actual act of interacting with an enemy, is the best it has ever been in the genre. The feel of fighting things is fantastic but I think it falls apart in nearly every other regard.

Would like to see the examples of this

 

[V_Arnold]

Do you truly believe that Jay Wilson is to blame for the story of Diablo 3, rather than Chris Metzen? Or do you have no idea waht you're talking about?

Especially when the pages, the logs are actually good. Anything that is not in the main cutscenes is totally cool.

 

[Zelias]

Didn't even realise he was still at Blizzard. I assumed they gave him a backseat role after the Diablo 3 debacle and then quietly released him at some point.

Hope he's a better writer than he was a game director for Diablo 3. Fuck that loser, indeed.