benjipwns
Banned
I knew it. I always knew there was more to you than meets the eye.
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Jon Stewart gives no f**ks anymore, goes all in on Fox, institutional conservatism
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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SteveWinwood
Member
oh im not saying of any of that (the other guy was i guess)
im just saying i thought i remember my old cable company totally color coded them as entertainment instead of the news color with cnn or msnbc
The AOL merger with Time Warner was more than met the eye and was probably as culturally significant as the rise of Fox News. The channel has never been quite as significant since.
That's why he keeps joking about buying them for 10 million dollars, which seems like an oddly specific price to keep bringing up...
I don't really get a post like this.
There's a clear indication of how most people view something like Fox News. Why even post at all if this all you have to say and have no intention of showing the 'agenda' or showing what Fox News does right and what people like Jon Stewart get wrong about the network?
7DollarHagane
Banned
The bullshit on fox news is one thing, but to say that anyone that agree with any element of conservative politics or be lumped in with rush Limbaugh and sarah Palin is foolish.
The extremes on both sides are wrong and stupid. The extremes in most things are.
The extremes on both sides are wrong and stupid. The extremes in most things are.
benjipwns
Banned
I think Fox News' actual news coverage, especially of breaking events, instead of punditocracy isn't too bad. No worse and probably better than CNN or MSNBC's. They seem to use Murdoch's global resources much better than the other two use theirs by turning things over to Sky News or whoever. I think al Jazeera is probably the only obviously better one though they're a bit more limited globally.
And if you accept they're going to bring on more "conservative/Republican spin" experts when it's speculation or blame time like Col. Ralph Peters (who is simply the greatest Fox News personality and I don't recall Stewart ever showing him) and that's when the "breaking news" period is over, you won't be any worse for wear.
I don't think highly of the punditocracy on the other networks, except Al Sharpton of course (and the SNL parodies), since they do the same "bring on people who agree" gimmick, but that's media, I don't expect it to be "fair and balanced" and would like more openly ideological stances like CurrentTV tried and like MSNBC more or less admitted. That's the history of journalism, I don't know why we decided to delude ourselves.
If anything the real problem with O'Reilly, Hannity, Maddow, etc. and John Oliver's show actually has displayed this perfectly, is that they jump from segment to segment, three to five minutes and it's about some "latest meme" type of deal. Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage and Glenn Beck have all done these type of extended thoughts/segments like Oliver and it works far better than anything Hannity has ever done jumping for topic to topic, panel to panel, even if you disagree with the content. Or they'd work better as extended roundtables or "debates" or what have you.
As Politically Incorrect and Tough Crowd did. (And Red Eye before it got battered.)
And if you accept they're going to bring on more "conservative/Republican spin" experts when it's speculation or blame time like Col. Ralph Peters (who is simply the greatest Fox News personality and I don't recall Stewart ever showing him) and that's when the "breaking news" period is over, you won't be any worse for wear.
I don't think highly of the punditocracy on the other networks, except Al Sharpton of course (and the SNL parodies), since they do the same "bring on people who agree" gimmick, but that's media, I don't expect it to be "fair and balanced" and would like more openly ideological stances like CurrentTV tried and like MSNBC more or less admitted. That's the history of journalism, I don't know why we decided to delude ourselves.
If anything the real problem with O'Reilly, Hannity, Maddow, etc. and John Oliver's show actually has displayed this perfectly, is that they jump from segment to segment, three to five minutes and it's about some "latest meme" type of deal. Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage and Glenn Beck have all done these type of extended thoughts/segments like Oliver and it works far better than anything Hannity has ever done jumping for topic to topic, panel to panel, even if you disagree with the content. Or they'd work better as extended roundtables or "debates" or what have you.
As Politically Incorrect and Tough Crowd did. (And Red Eye before it got battered.)
King Tubby
Member
I should make it clear I'm just talking about Real Time. I haven't watched any of Bill Maher's standup.
This is the best real world example of those studies that found presenting someone with facts decreases the chances of changing their opinion.
It's like an ostrich sticking their head in the sand.
The extreme on the right is far more prevalent than the extreme on the left. This is reflected in our government and in the news media/punditry. Show me a left-wing pundit on who's as extreme as Rush Limbaugh with even a tenth of his popularity, or a liberal in congress who is anywhere near as nuts as someone like Michelle Bachman.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Except, the extremes on the left is nothing like the extremes on the right.
Care to elaborate on this?
Aaron Strife
Banned
Jon Stewart is not a liberal comedian. Jon Stewart is a comedian who happens to be liberal.
People ask why conservative comedians aren't as funny. It's because they try to push their agenda at the expense of comedy. You can see this in those dumb macros your uncle shares on Facebook.
"Look at this picture of Obama as a witch doctor! Isn't that funny? Because it's WHAT HE'S DOING TO AMERICA"
The Daily Show crew doesn't target Fox News or Republicans exclusively. It just happens to be that they say the dumbest shit.
People ask why conservative comedians aren't as funny. It's because they try to push their agenda at the expense of comedy. You can see this in those dumb macros your uncle shares on Facebook.
"Look at this picture of Obama as a witch doctor! Isn't that funny? Because it's WHAT HE'S DOING TO AMERICA"
The Daily Show crew doesn't target Fox News or Republicans exclusively. It just happens to be that they say the dumbest shit.
benjipwns
Banned
I think not intentionally, but because they have a progressive/Democratic point of view they're more likely to find this or that story "crazy" or dumb where Republicans don't. An imaginary Republican leaning Daily Show could do the same thing with Democrats but Democrats wouldn't find it dumb or crazy that Obama said this or Pelosi said that.
I think that contributes slightly to the Fox attention, but the show goes after media tropes/stupidity in general more so and I think Fox falls into maybe half their stuff, CNN gets a good amount of bashing. And I think that maybe has to do more with what channels they pay attention to. It's rare but does happen that they hit the CBS/NBC/ABC network news. Especially in montages. Fox also has far more blatant opinion programming to pick from, CNN's get gussied up as some weird news/opinion hybrid. But Fox runs tons of hours of opinion programming and bringing on people to argue instead of just repeated news segments during the day. There's a lot more dumb to pick out of ANY opinion programming than bland news reporting.
Wolf Blitzer only gets a little less mockery as O'Reilly or Hannity and those two have a kind of mini-feud with Stewart.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Many posts in the weekly Fox News bashing threads are one or two sentence opinions that make sweeping generalizations, sometimes not just about Fox News specifically but American media and even American society at large.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I imagine it's easier to allow that idea to spread because the alternative is to accept that a news outlet exists only to spread bullshit and give a very warped view on the world and that it has a pretty large following.
I'm patiently waiting for the day that they say something absolutely vapid like the things we heard about Global Warming or net neutrality over the past year.
Except it probably won't happen.
The closest seems to be CNN herping the derp more and more each day.
His standup isn't quite that bad, but it certainly shows his age a bit. I also wouldn't refer to his viewpoints on Real Time as "edgy", considering they're shared by a large part of the country.
Yup. That's because the extreme right is on the side of $$$$$ and dollars rule the world.
Being leftist is a losing battle, or at least a fuckton harder, seeing it that way.
bequietdrive
Member
I love Jon Stewart, genuinely wish we had a politics programme this good in the UK.
You will be missed.
You will be missed.
the difference with republicans is that the extreme right determines the entire party's platform and any deviation is punished. the democratic party in america has been defined by compromise and would be considered center-right in most of the rest of the world.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
I have no idea, but did John Stewart lampoon John Edwards for saying people like Christopher Reeve would walk if he and Kerry were elected?
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
But still nowhere near as nuts as Michelle Bachmann.
bequietdrive
Member
Spot on.
Your liberal party is more in line with the UK's Conservative party ideologically - which really speaks volumes about how painfully right wing America is.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Either that or its an easy appeal to authority argument made to score points in a Facebook conversation.
Actually, 10 billion dollars is the amount that he cites.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Democrats don't punish deviation from liberal orthodoxy on issues like abortion and politically correct speech?
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Can't believe a news channel like Fox News exists, and is watched by millions of people. It's willful suspension of logic if you actually believe what this channel reports.
Thankfully Canada's version of fox news utterly tanked.
Thankfully Canada's version of fox news utterly tanked.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Not sure what you mean there.
But, no. Republicans will run a more conservative candidate against their incumbent if he/she deviated from the platform. Look at party line voting to see the difference.
Eric the Red
Member
A conservative Daily show would never work because it would need to put comedy first and the American conservative audiences would never accept it. Comedy is honest. Satire is used to cut through Orwellian bullshit. A conservative Daily show might not be interested in all the same subjects Stewart's show does, but it would still need to repudiate the disingenuous manipulation of Fox News, as well as lampooning the ridiculous things happening on the left side of the aisle. Does anyone think conservative audiences would tolerate that?
On the other hand if the show panders, it ceases to be funny. The punchline is always given away. It's a doomed proposition.
I don't agree because I think you have a false premise. It's the lampooning of hypocrisy, disingenuousness, political double speak, etc, that make this type of comedy incisive; not the actual politics of it. For example, when Sarah Palin lost her teleprompter feed, she was immediately reduced to a babbling incoherent mess. The political affiliation of the outside observer does not make her situation any less ridiculous.
On the other hand if the show panders, it ceases to be funny. The punchline is always given away. It's a doomed proposition.
I don't agree because I think you have a false premise. It's the lampooning of hypocrisy, disingenuousness, political double speak, etc, that make this type of comedy incisive; not the actual politics of it. For example, when Sarah Palin lost her teleprompter feed, she was immediately reduced to a babbling incoherent mess. The political affiliation of the outside observer does not make her situation any less ridiculous.
LowerLevel
Member
Couldn't agree more!
benjipwns
Banned
And Republicans regularly say the same thing about Obama and teleprompters. And find Palin's off the cuff as telling it like it is and honest and she's not a seasoned politician like all those jerks in Washington and lieberals are just jealous.
It got neutered.
First a whole swath of comedians were banned by higher ups, then segments were cut especially anything that might cost money or be construed as "dirty", some of this like interviews due to the ratings dropping off in the second half hour, then they banned Oderus Urungus, then Greg started doing The Five, then they decided to ditch the Halftime Report and put Andy on the panel, and then they fired Bill.
BronsonLee
Member
Don't worry guys, conservative hero Seth Rollins is gonna take care of this son of a bitch once and for all!
TunaMarshmallow
Member
What Americans consider left is basically center, and what they consider the "normal" right would be considered the outer-right fringe in many parts of the world. The views Americans associate with the fringe-right aren't even recognizable as legitimate moral and political views in, say, Canada.
Huh?
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Do a forum search for Jonathan Chait.
gutter_trash
Banned
the brunt of the establishment wing of the Democrats are pretty Center-Right in terms of the economy and military
the political polarization in the US between the two parties creates a false sense of total polar opposites between the two parties when in fact they re-joined in the Right of Center together on many issues
it is mainly identity politics and social issues were there is big difference.
benjipwns
Banned
In most Western countries with only two or three dominant parties the politics (and parties) is a consensus of conservative social liberalism, highly regulated markets, a welfare state and popular political apathy. The main difference in the U.S. is the extent of which military and foreign policy matters gobble up attention.
Derekloffin
Member
And the truly sad thing, the US at large keeps electing these people even when their approval rating is in the low double digits and has frequently seen single digits. It's absolutely crazy in my opinion.
benjipwns
Banned
It's Congress' approval rating that's low. Approval ratings for your member of Congress are almost universally high unless they're in a swing district/state.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
That's chickenshit.
Moderate Republicans are persona non grata in their party (e.g. Olympia Snowe). They run more extreme candidates against their members who they don't feel are conservative enough.
It's the whole "Congress is terrible, but not my guy" syndrome.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
You said you didn't know what I meant. The subject was thoroughly discussed recently in a long forum thread about a piece Jonathan Chait wrote on the subject that attracted a lot of attention. If you want to know what I meant, read the thread.
Eric the Red
Member
No no. Presenting Palin's breakdown as "honest" is just plain disingenuous and not a genuine difference in viewpoint. When that one infamous Miss Teen USA stream-of-consciousness reply happened years ago everyone cringed, not just democrats. Not just because it showed she was nervous or that she made a mistake, it showed she had no concept of what she asked to answer. Palin didn't just say something wrong. The way she broke down into incoherent political buzzwords and unrelated talking points showed she doesn't actually know what she's talking about. That is ridiculous from someone who was so close to the vice presidency and is a ripe situation for anyone putting comedy first.
People can look for teleprompter flubs from Obama but it's not the same thing. I don't think Republicans believe Obama literally doesn't know what he's talking about in the same way; they just think he's wrong. If the same thing did happen to Obama, John Stewart would poke fun at it, and I think his audience would laugh at the absurdity of it. If a conservative version of his show couldn't do the same, they would be putting political side taking at the reins of their show and would fail.
benjipwns
Banned
From your point of view maybe. Republicans found it to be a left-wing setup and deliberately done to make her look foolish. And her not being ready for the hard lefts assault on her was proof she came from real people not as a Washington insider.
I think you need to get more experience with Republicans.
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