1) You're seeing it here. It's just common a common viewpoint here that debating racists is somehow being 'nice' to them, or is legitimizing their perspectives somehow. It isn't. That's stupid.
2) Exactly. I just thought he was a nutty gamergater before. Now I know he's a full on ethno-state loving nutter. I know that because Destiny baited that shit out of him.
3) Never said that. You said that. I'm saying we disprove the nonsense these people are saying by simply winning the discussions with them and making their ideas look silly. Again, nothing is accomplished when your ideas exist in a bubble. Saying racism sucks to people who agree with you isn't doing anything and we're losing.
4) Again, didn't say we owe him compassion. Just for the record, I'd show him compassion. I'm very nice to the white nationalists I talk to and it completely destroys their idea of minorities. That said, I'm not saying white nationalists are owed compassion in the slightest. Debate isn't compassionate.
1) Still have no idea what you mean by Orthodoxy of Speech. Literally few if any have expressed anger at say Destiny for sitting down with JonTron. In fact more gratitude has bern expressed than anything else...
I have never said no one should debate him... I merely state he is not owed compassion and it should not be expected of anti-racists to give it to him
I was reacting to someone shaming everyone who isn't lighting candles at the altar of compassion. Similar to what you are doing. An acceptable response to a white nationalist is in fact fuck that guy. An acceptable response is in fact to try and get his sponsorshios cancelled and to try and reduce his reach and scope: to let people know just how racist he is.
If you want to go the route of compassion knock yourself out but don't pretend like it's the only route or that it's clearly the one with success. A sane liberal (your words) sat him down and he went for a double down instead
2) And nothing changed. He took a few days, cried that the media was out to get him and doubled down without an iota of self-awareness. So again great I am glad Destiny forced his opinions out but compassion did not make him see the light.
As for 3) When you literally say a sane liberal you imply a counter: the insane liberal... How am I suppose to interpret you saying if only sane liberals had challenged him in the context of several posts calling out GAF Orthodoxy, a lack of compassion from "insane liberals", etc... I mean you say a sane liberal could have saved him. Do you believe then that he's never met a sane liberal in his life and/or the only ones he's met are insane ones (again whatever that even means)?
It's ironic that you label me as judgmental yet all I see is you exalting that you are out of the "bubble" and talking down to us who are not interested in showing him compassion.
Debate is part, ostercization and not tollerating intolerance is also part. He must be held accountable for his bigotry.
Edit: 4) Then why did you reply to me to give me shit? The entire reply that you quoted of mine was directed to someone claiming JonTron wasn't a bad person, wasn't really racist, was just saying 4chan lolz memes and didn't and mean what he said and needs to be shown compassion and sat down and talked to, and that that would cure him.
That's emphatically what I was rejecting to which you projected all of GAF orthodoxy on to lol. I reject that he is owed compassion, I reject that that is the only path, I reject the notion that he doesn't mean it, I reject the notion that those who are angry and have no desire to extend an olive branch should be ashamed, I reject the notion that giving JonTron compassion makes you a better person or whatever that intial post that I was replying to was implying.
My intial statement which you jumped me on was literally saying to a person, who was claiming that all we needed to do was just sit down with him and be compassionate and all would work out, that that already happened and it didn't all work out.
I mean literally I was replying to someone saying this
I think that a more patient and intelligent person could've handled this situation in a more altruistic way.
...
Instead of making him out to be an inhuman wretch that must be disposed of, I think that using logic, history, and empathy one could've persuaded Jon to the good side.
..
What if we solved these problems with compassion instead of animosity is all I'm saying.
I am not less intelligent because I chose to react with disgust and condemnation, rather than to sit down and show compassion to a man expressing naked and revolting racism. Just like I am not more intelligent than Destiny because he chose the sit down route. Nor is it wrong to express animosity towards someone whose views are abjectly disgusting.
The response to which you jumped on was telling that poster that in fact someone had actually done exactly what he was claiming was the more intelligent route and that in fact no JonTron did not in fact come back to the good side. In fact he had instead doubled down and cried foul about the sit down debate because it's just not tjat his views are fucked up it's that he was put on the spot and didn't express his racists views clear enough on that day.
Btw a reaction from some of the youtube gaming community was that Destiny wronged JonTron because he had facts and was ready to debate/challenge JonTron whereas JonTron just wanted a discussion so it was all unfair (and I believe thst insinuation is in fact contained in this follow up video from JonTron) ... how do you fight that logic?
Kidness if that's your path is fine, it is not mine and that does not make my path lesser
