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[Wallach]

My HD4870 seems to be limited by my E8400 @ 3.00GHz, since OC'ing to 3.3GHz improved my 3DMark06 score. It didn't just improve the CPU score component, it also improved the SM2.0 and SM3.0 scores.

As for thermals, with Catalyst 8.7, if you enable Overdrive (you don't have to OC though) and create a profile, make it the only profile so it autoloads on system startup, and edit it to run the fans at 35%, my idle drops from 77C to 52C. Fans at 45% took me down to 49C idle but anything above 35% speed is louder so if you want a silent system, you don't want to hit 40%+.

Yeah, the cooling on the 4xxx series is fine, they just had a similar problem to a lot of the 8xxx nVidia line when they shipped, the fan duty was set way too low on the driver level (although it's much worse on the 4xxx than it ever was on the 8xxx series). The reference card itself is fine and the thermals are not abnormal compared to anything in the past couple generations of cards once this is corrected.

 

[Tenacious-V]

And as far as the system configuration thing goes, it's true. The sites don't do a good job of testing the cards with a variety of CPU configs which leads to misinformed purchasing and expectations that aren't met.

What the hell, it doesn't lead to misinformed purchasing decisions. They do this strictly to show the capabilities of the cards themselves. That is precisely what a VIDEOCARD review is for. They are not testing entire systems, they want to explore the full potential of ONLY the card in their review and to do that they want to ensure there are as little bottlenecks as possible. If anything, this gives the consumer more information for their purchasing decisions, I don't understand why you are arguing against that fact.

 

[Kevin]

I think it's weird that the 4870X2 destroys the 280 and GX2 in every game but Crysis. That would be the only reason why I'd upgrade since I want that running better.

Which is why I am skipping this card and sticking with my 8800GT.

 

[godhandiscen]

No DRM hypervisor, better backwards compatibility. Stuff runs better on it.

Ok, but I would say that its a little overkill. I have not seen much difference between server and vista 64 in performance.

 

[Tenacious-V]

I just got the HD 4850 a few days ago, i have a Conroe E6600 @ stock, is this a bottleneck? I get good fps in games but i dunno if my cpu is holding it back maybe.

Actually, the 4850 is pretty much geared to systems around/close to your settings (+/- 100 or so Mhz) anything higher and I'd recommend the 4870. I'm running a 4850 as well, but my CPU is not quite as quick (X2 4800+).

 

[Tiduz]

Actually, the 4850 is pretty much geared to systems around/close to your settings (+/- 100 or so Mhz) anything higher and I'd recommend the 4870. I'm running a 4850 as well, but my CPU is not quite as quick (X2 4800+).

thats good to hear, thank you

 

[Chiggs]

What the hell, it doesn't lead to misinformed purchasing decisions. They do this strictly to show the capabilities of the cards themselves. That is precisely what a VIDEOCARD review is for. They are not testing entire systems, they want to explore the full potential of ONLY the card in their review and to do that they want to ensure there are as little bottlenecks as possible. If anything, this gives the consumer more information for their purchasing decisions, I don't understand why you are arguing against that fact.

And I don't see what's hard to understand about what I'm saying. Someone basing their purchase on some benchmarks run on an uber-system with a QX9770 is a little misguided if they don't have a comparable system. And I'm willing to bet a lot of people do that. They'll translate the benchmarks to their own systems, do some fuzzy math, round up, and then say "Ah, I'll get this card."

It's just naive, and I really wish more sites would explore scaling. I remember back in 2004 when the x1800 and 6800 were battling it out. One of things I learned by reading an excellent Anandtech or Hexus review was that the x1800 did extremely well when coupled with a fast CPU and not so great when coupled with a mid-range one. Seems like a no-brainer, right? Well, contrast that to the 6800, which performed slower than the x1800 when coupled with a fast cpu, but did a whole lot better with a mid-range CPU than the x1800 did. Can't you see how this could help someone who wants to purchase a card? Hell, it's even more pertinent in this discussion due to the fact that we're dealing with midrange cards which will most likely be used for--GASP--a midrange system.

I would just like the sites to couple the cards with a high-end, mid-range, and low-end CPU. And for Christ's sake, why not throw a Phenom in there, too? Now ask yourself "Is this unreasonable?"

Of course it's not.

 

[otake]

I am a little nervous about the temperature on my card. just running the OS the catalyst reports 79-80 degrees C. this is my first venture into pc gaming. am I right on being nervous?

I popped open the case just see how hot it is in there and it seems I have good air flow. just the card itself getting hot.

 

[Chiggs]

I am a little nervous about the temperature on my card. just running the OS the catalyst reports 79-80 degrees C. this is my first venture into pc gaming. am I right on being nervous?

That's hot, make no mistake. The good news is that these cards are designed to deal with heat much better than, say, your average CPU. That said, I believe there is a trick to get the fan spinning at a higher rate (if it's not already). Just Google "4870 fan bug" or something. Perhaps someone here knows the trick? Alternatively, you could also install one of those GPU coolers in a pci slot below.

 

[Wallach]

I am a little nervous about the temperature on my card. just running the OS the catalyst reports 79-80 degrees C. this is my first venture into pc gaming. am I right on being nervous?

I popped open the case just see how hot it is in there and it seems I have good air flow. just the card itself getting hot.

Yeah, the card's fan is barely spinning which is why the GPU temps are so high.

I think 8.7 has a built-in profile setting (somewhere in Overdrive) that you can set to auto-load when you boot Windows like RivaTuner, and in there you will want to set the fan duty cycle to something reasonable. I'd start at 50% and figure out where you want to go from there in terms of the tradeoff between noise and temps.

 

[Waikis]

I am a little nervous about the temperature on my card. just running the OS the catalyst reports 79-80 degrees C. this is my first venture into pc gaming. am I right on being nervous?

I popped open the case just see how hot it is in there and it seems I have good air flow. just the card itself getting hot.

To "fix" the fan, you need to create profile in CCC ,make sure that you tick ATI overdrive settings in the composition tab.
Next , [if you are using vista] go to users>"username">appdata>local>ATI>ACE>profiles>"profilename.xml"
Open the file with a notepad .

Change these settings :

<Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_0">
          <Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Automatic" />
        </Feature>
         <Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_0">
          <Property name="Want" value="25" />
        </Feature>

to

<Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_0">
          <Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Manual" />
        </Feature>
           <Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_0">
          <Property name="Want" value="35" />
        </Feature>

After that reload the profile in CCC.

 

[otake]

on xp, created a profile but can't seem to find it.

 

[Waikis]

on xp, created a profile but can't seem to find it.

Eh,,, try to show all the hidden folders . If I am not wrong ,there should be a folder called users in your primary HD.

 

[Stoney Mason]

To "fix" the fan, you need to create profile in CCC ,make sure that you tick ATI overdrive settings in the composition tab.
Next , [if you are using vista] go to users>"username">appdata>local>ATI>ACE>profiles>"profilename.xml"
Open the file with a notepad .

Change these settings :

<Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_0">
          <Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Automatic" />
        </Feature>
         <Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_0">
          <Property name="Want" value="25" />
        </Feature>

to

<Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_0">
          <Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Manual" />
        </Feature>
           <Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_0">
          <Property name="Want" value="35" />
        </Feature>

After that reload the profile in CCC.

Damn that was nice. I had missed this workaround. I was at 79 to 77% without even doing anything before which scared the piss out of me and now that is down to 55% to 56%.

 

[otake]

Damn that was nice. I had missed this workaround. I was at 79 to 77% without even doing anything before which scared the piss out of me and now that is down to 55% to 56%.

okay I did it. doesn't this mean the card will always be running at 35% fan speed, even when it needs more?

anyone over-clocking using auto-drive on the 4850?

 

[Waikis]

okay I did it. doesn't this mean the card will always be running at 35% fan speed, even when it needs more?

Yeah it will be running constantly at 35%. I never had any problem with it though.

anyone over-clocking using auto-drive on the 4850

I OCed my card manually (4870).

 

[Stoney Mason]

okay I did it. doesn't this mean the card will always be running at 35% fan speed, even when it needs more?

anyone over-clocking using auto-drive on the 4850?

Well I set mine higher than 35%. I'm overclocking using autodrive on the 4850. Not all the way though because I start to get artifacts and then lockups above a certain threshold.

 

[otake]

Well I set mine higher than 35%. I'm overclocking using autodrive on the 4850. Not all the way though because I start to get artifacts and then lockups above a certain threshold.

Like I said before, I'm new to PC gaming so I'm debating wether to over clock or not. want to do it just to see if I can run crysis a little more smoothly. the over drive auto feature doesn't seem to work though. I let it do it's thing and when I test the settings they always fail.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Like I said before, I'm new to PC gaming so I'm debating wether to over clock or not. want to do it just to see if I can run crysis a little more smoothly. the over drive auto feature doesn't seem to work though. I let it do it's thing and when I test the settings they always fail.

Hmmm... How does it fail? Does it start the test? What is the error message?

 

[Cheeto]

I bought the Zalman VF900 cooler, and it works awesome. My card idles 41c and it's silent. Only goes up to 49c under load now that the paste has cured, I highly recommend it to any with a 4850.

 

[ColdDeckEd]

I bought the Zalman VF900 cooler, and it works awesome. My card idles 41c and it's silent. Only goes up to 49c under load now that the paste has cured, I highly recommend it to any with a 4850.

Was it hard taking the stock cooler off? Did you have to put heatsinks on the ram? Just ordered a 4850, and I'm feeling a little bad I didn't spend the extra 40 bucks on one of the newer designs with upgraded cooling.

 

[otake]

I don't know if its such as good idea to have the fan set to 35%. A game like crysis pushes the card pretty hard. i was playing the demo and the card reached temps higher than 90. I think had the fan been set to auto the speed would have increased and kept the card in the 80's.

I overclocked my card. GPU 645 MHz, Memory 1045 MHz. no artifacts or anything but not much of an improvement on the crysis demo....

now I changed the fan speed algorithm to auto but left the fanspeedtarget at 35%.

 

[kitch9]

And I don't see what's hard to understand about what I'm saying. Someone basing their purchase on some benchmarks run on an uber-system with a QX9770 is a little misguided if they don't have a comparable system. And I'm willing to bet a lot of people do that. They'll translate the benchmarks to their own systems, do some fuzzy math, round up, and then say "Ah, I'll get this card."

It's just naive, and I really wish more sites would explore scaling. I remember back in 2004 when the x1800 and 6800 were battling it out. One of things I learned by reading an excellent Anandtech or Hexus review was that the x1800 did extremely well when coupled with a fast CPU and not so great when coupled with a mid-range one. Seems like a no-brainer, right? Well, contrast that to the 6800, which performed slower than the x1800 when coupled with a fast cpu, but did a whole lot better with a mid-range CPU than the x1800 did. Can't you see how this could help someone who wants to purchase a card? Hell, it's even more pertinent in this discussion due to the fact that we're dealing with midrange cards which will most likely be used for--GASP--a midrange system.

I would just like the sites to couple the cards with a high-end, mid-range, and low-end CPU. And for Christ's sake, why not throw a Phenom in there, too? Now ask yourself "Is this unreasonable?"

Of course it's not.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with-quad-core-processors/

Most games appear GPU bound, nowt to worry about ATM if you own a decent mid range dual core....

 

[Stoney Mason]

I don't know if its such as good idea to have the fan set to 35%. A game like crysis pushes the card pretty hard. i was playing the demo and the card reached temps higher than 90. I think had the fan been set to auto the speed would have increased and kept the card in the 80's.

I overclocked my card. GPU 645 MHz, Memory 1045 MHz. no artifacts or anything but not much of an improvement on the crysis demo....

now I changed the fan speed algorithm to auto but left the fanspeedtarget at 35%.

The original post this was based off had the dude set his to 65%. Mine is set to 70 because I don't mind the noise.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=2751569&postcount=8

 

[Clipjoint]

Just create multiple profiles. Keep one at 35% for when it's at idle, and another at 65% when it's under load. Chances are, if you're playing a graphics intensive game you're wearing headphones or you have the sound pretty loud anyway, so you won't hear the increased fan.

 

[Chiggs]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with-quad-core-processors/

Most games appear GPU bound, nowt to worry about ATM if you own a decent mid range dual core....

That's an excellent article. Thanks for the link.

Edit: Just wished they had used newer cards.

 

[bee]

the new nvidia physx drivers leaked. 8.07.18 they are and they now work with g80 based 8800 cards aswell as the rest, you also need a pretty recent forceware maybe the latest whql is enough dunno, im using 177.66

doesn't seem to work with too many of the physx games yet though, apparently it works with graw 1&2 but the only one i've tried is the free, warmonger (terrible game). the difference in that is huge and it really is a best case scenario. without the new drivers installed i get like 8-12fps with them installed i was getting 40-60

i guess they'll have a newer build to enable all the physx games to work, downloads for the both the driver and that free game are below

Nvidia PhysX 8.07.18

Warmonger game

 

[godhandiscen]

Go go go Quad Rangers! My next upgrade will be a 3.5GHz Quad or above. I am happy with my 2.6GHZ Quad.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"doesn't seem to work with too many of the physx games yet though, apparently it works with graw 1&2 but the only one i've tried is the free, warmonger (terrible game). the difference in that is huge and it really is a best case scenario. without the new drivers installed i get like 8-12fps with them installed i was getting 40-60"


Wasn't there that rumor that those 2 free Ageia games (Cellfactor and Warmonger) intentionally crippled performance on machines without a PhysX card?

 

[godhandiscen]

"doesn't seem to work with too many of the physx games yet though, apparently it works with graw 1&2 but the only one i've tried is the free, warmonger (terrible game). the difference in that is huge and it really is a best case scenario. without the new drivers installed i get like 8-12fps with them installed i was getting 40-60"


Wasn't there that rumor that those 2 free Ageia games (Cellfactor and Warmonger) intentionally crippled performance on machines without a PhysX card?

Not a rumor IIRC.

At least not a rumor for Cell Factor.

 

[Broseybrose]

Wasn't there that rumor that those 2 free Ageia games (Cellfactor and Warmonger) intentionally crippled performance on machines without a PhysX card?

i heard that rumor but i can certainly testify that warmonger is working in a most impressive fashion on my 8800GTX. and you need to be using 177.xx drivers for Physx to work.

 

[Chiggs]

A lot of the PhysX pack reviews are hitting the net. Here's FiringSquad's:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_physx_performance/default.asp

And here are some of the upcoming games that we can look forward to:

Aliens: Colonial Marines

Backbreaker

Bionic Commando

Borderlands

Cryostasis

Empire: Total War

Mirror’s Edge

MKZ

Nurien


I am...excited.

 

[Pelydr]

I got my 4850 today (along with a few other components) and I really could not be any happier with a gpu. Such a great card for an amazingly cheap price. Good stuff.

 

[Shinz Kicker]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...e-pro-graphics-market-with-firepro-cards.html

i havent seen anything in the thread on this but it may be a little bit off topic since its pro range but ATI is on Fire literally now.

 

[SapientWolf]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...e-pro-graphics-market-with-firepro-cards.html

i havent seen anything in the thread on this but it may be a little bit off topic since its pro range but ATI is on Fire literally now.

I remember when people were able to turn their vanilla video cards to $1k+ professional cards with a simple firmware change.

 

[Wallach]

Anyone seen any hot deals on the 4850 lately? I'd like to grab another one; the best I've seen in my brief search here at work is Newegg's Sapphire 4850 for $170 w/ $15 MIR.

 

[godhandiscen]

A lot of the PhysX pack reviews are hitting the net. Here's FiringSquad's:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_physx_performance/default.asp

And here are some of the upcoming games that we can look forward to:

Aliens: Colonial Marines

Backbreaker

Bionic Commando

Borderlands

Cryostasis

Empire: Total War

Mirror’s Edge

MKZ

Nurien


I am...excited.

What is the increase in games that had been already benched?

 

[Blackface]

Nvidia looks like they are going to be getting smoked for a couple generations unless they really pull something out of their ass by next year.

 

[Tom Penny]

I have an EVGA 8800 GT superclock. Is there any reason to upgrade to an 4850 or should I just wait and SLI 2 8800 GT's.

 

[godhandiscen]

I have an EVGA 8800 GT superclock. Is there any reason to upgrade to an 4850 or should I just wait and SLI 2 8800 GT's.

If you are thinking about getting a SLI setup then just sell you current 8800GT and get a 4870.
The 4850 will perform on par with the SLI setup but the 4870 will perform better. Also, SLI only shows an increase with few games.

 

[bee]

I have an EVGA 8800 GT superclock. Is there any reason to upgrade to an 4850 or should I just wait and SLI 2 8800 GT's.

no, at least wait until theres a game that you want to play that makes your card struggle. may aswell wait until the big games come out in november , then there will be new cards and the current ones will be even cheaper

 

[Tom Penny]

If you are thinking about getting a SLI setup then just sell you current 8800GT and get a 4870.
The 4850 will perform on par with the SLI setup but the 4870 will perform better. Also, SLI only shows an increase with few games.

Well I already have an SLI mobo so I figured it would end up cheaper with a good performance gain. Apparently not.

 

[Blackface]

If you are thinking about getting a SLI setup then just sell you current 8800GT and get a 4870.
The 4850 will perform on par with the SLI setup but the 4870 will perform better. Also, SLI only shows an increase with few games.

4850 is not as good as 8800GT SLI. The 4850 is as good as the 9800GTX, which is a superclocked 8800GT.

 

[godhandiscen]

4850 is not as good as 8800GT SLI. The 4850 is as good as the 9800GTX, which is a superclocked 8800GT.

The SLI performance increase is not consistent across all games.You should just check benchmarks about which game you are interested in playing.

 

[Pelydr]

Anyone seen any hot deals on the 4850 lately? I'd like to grab another one; the best I've seen in my brief search here at work is Newegg's Sapphire 4850 for $170 w/ $15 MIR.

There is now a GIGABYTE 4850 for $149 after MIR on newegg now. I doubt you will get much cheaper than that for a little while.

 

[SRG01]

I remember when people were able to turn their vanilla video cards to $1k+ professional cards with a simple firmware change.

I'm pretty sure this is still the case. :lol The silicon is identical so I don't see why not.

 

[Waikis]

So any stores taking pre-orders for 4870x2 in the states?
Some of the stores in Australia are already taking pre-orders at AU$669 > ( .

 

[~Kinggi~]

When the hell is the 4870x2 coming out im getting antsy.

 

[Waikis]

August 12th ( which is tomorrow in Aus ) .

 

[jakershaker]

Was it hard taking the stock cooler off? Did you have to put heatsinks on the ram? Just ordered a 4850, and I'm feeling a little bad I didn't spend the extra 40 bucks on one of the newer designs with upgraded cooling.

Changing cooler on the graphics card is really really easy. Takes about 15 minutes tops and should be no problems at all if you've replaced some computer parts before, usually just 1-2 screws and 2 plastic plugs(and some cooling paste). I always buy a new cooler with a new graphics card, never trusted stock coolers. Zalman and Arctic Cooling are two nice brands.