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Kayo Satoh: Sexy Japanese model, Street Fighter fan, and...

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Baby Milo

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
it's GAF man. I get the feeling some of GAF hasn't touched pussy since they jumped out of their mothers. such repression can lead to...unintended consequences.
:lol

these threads are always funny though
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Siebzehn50 said:

Nothing says "manly man secure in my sexuality" more than "Tranny? Eeeeww! No way I'd ever do that. Good god, imagine if Scar Jo was a man! Can you imagine the horror?"
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Not trying to be assholish, snide, or in any way sarcastic. I'm stating my clear ignorance beforehand...
Shanadeus said:
Wat?
She's a girl, she's just not biologically female.
I do not understand this at all.
 

Dresden

Member
DY_nasty said:
Not trying to be assholish, snide, or in any way sarcastic. I'm stating my clear ignorance beforehand...

I do not understand this at all.
Most people ordinarily seem to think that sex and gender are coextensive: women are human females, men are human males. Many feminists have historically disagreed and have endorsed the sex/ gender distinction. Provisionally: ‘sex’ denotes human females and males depending on biological features (chromosomes, sex organs, hormones and other physical features); ‘gender’ denotes women and men depending on social factors (social role, position, behaviour or identity). The main feminist motivation for making this distinction was to counter biological determinism or the view that biology is destiny.

In order to distinguish biological differences from social/psychological ones and to talk about the latter, feminists appropriated the term ‘gender’. Psychologists writing on transsexuality were the first to employ gender terminology in this sense. Until the 1960s, ‘gender’ was used solely to refer to masculine and feminine words, like le and la in French (Nicholson 1994, 80; see also Nicholson 1998). However, in order to explain why some people felt that they were ‘trapped in the wrong bodies’, the psychologist Robert Stoller (1968) began using the terms ‘sex’ to pick out biological traits and ‘gender’ to pick out the amount of femininity and masculinity a person exhibited. Although (by and large) a person's sex and gender complemented each other, separating out these terms seemed to make theoretical sense allowing Stoller to explain the phenomenon of transsexuality: transsexuals' sex and gender simply don't match.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-gender/
 

Ferrio

Banned
DY_nasty said:
Not trying to be assholish, snide, or in any way sarcastic. I'm stating my clear ignorance beforehand...

I do not understand this at all.

What would you call this person?
Buck%20Angel.jpg
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
But if that person is by all biological definition a male, shouldn't that be it? I'm not getting a major part of the issue.

"I'd like to be referred to and acknowledged as something I'm not - accept and tolerate it" There's something wrong with that. I can't just go outside and yell, "Hey world, I'm no longer black" and expect my bags not to get checked every time I leave wal-mart.

Edit: Yeah, surprise surprise @ the photo. I'm honestly trying to understand this whole thing better though.
 

agrajag

Banned
Dude Abides said:
Nothing says "manly man secure in my sexuality" more than "Tranny? Eeeeww! No way I'd ever do that. Good god, imagine if Scar Jo was a man! Can you imagine the horror?"

why can you only be secure in your sexuality if you profess to have some bisexual or bicurious tendencies?
 

Dude Abides

Banned
agrajag said:
why can you only be secure in your sexuality if you profess to have some bisexual or bicurious tendencies?

Ponder the difference between "profess[ing] to have" and "protesting too much that one does not have."
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Siebzehn50 said:
What are people such dumbasses?
Because its really easy to not know anything about the topic and it seems most of the lines, boundaries, and sensitive topics are just made up along the way. I'll go ahead and say flatout that I'm completely ignorant to the whole thing and generally want to know more - still, there's gonna be a load of people behind me that are just as ignorant and won't say that they're willing to learn more about it even if they actually are willing to do so.

Its just that when all you see is stuff like 'well, some people are trapped in the wrong body' its really hard to step back and say 'oh, that makes sense' - because it doesn't.
 

Door2Dawn

Banned
Siebzehn50 said:
What are people such dumbasses?
Well the reason why I said "lady man" is because she used to be a lady, and now is she is man.

But.. how can you call her a man when he ( I guess) still has a vagina?
 

agrajag

Banned
Door2Dawn said:
Well the reason why I said "lady man" is because she used to be a lady, and now is she is man.

But.. how can you call her a man when he ( I guess) still has a vagina?

I refuse to call her a man on the account that she has no balls.
 
RustyNails said:
AAAAAAAND the PedoGAF is here!

CDRrH.gif


DY_nasty said:
But if that person is by all biological definition a male, shouldn't that be it? I'm not getting a major part of the issue.

"I'd like to be referred to and acknowledged as something I'm not - accept and tolerate it" There's something wrong with that. I can't just go outside and yell, "Hey world, I'm no longer black" and expect my bags not to get checked every time I leave wal-mart.

Edit: Yeah, surprise surprise @ the photo. I'm honestly trying to understand this whole thing better though.

Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.
 
DY_nasty said:
Because its really easy to not know anything about the topic and it seems most of the lines, boundaries, and sensitive topics are just made up along the way. I'll go ahead and say flatout that I'm completely ignorant to the whole thing and generally want to know more - still, there's gonna be a load of people behind me that are just as ignorant and won't say that they're willing to learn more about it even if they actually are willing to do so.

Its just that when all you see is stuff like 'well, some people are trapped in the wrong body' its really hard to step back and say 'oh, that makes sense' - because it doesn't.

I have no issue with your position. His comment was obviously meant to be insensitive and degrading and it frustrates me to see people act that way. They are intentionally putting down an already exposed group just because they don't themselves identify with what they are going through.
 
Door2Dawn said:
Well the reason why I said "lady man" is because she used to be a lady, and now is she is man.

But.. how can you call her a man when he ( I guess) still has a vagina?

Look at Dresden's post earlier on this page
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
God's Beard said:
Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.
Just checked the wiki, I'm even more confused. :lol

When someone is gay, its simple. When its a racial/ethnic thing, its simple. This is... very different.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Flo_Evans said:
By definition aren't transsexuals the ones insecure with their sexuality? :lol

No, because gender and sex are two different things. They're very secure in knowing what they truely feel they are. It isn't like they're doing it to hide from being gay which seems to be what you're implying. Hell, there's tons of lesbian male->females.
 

btf1980

Member
RustyNails said:
She is so feminine. Look at her figure, arms, legs, shoulders. For comparison, look at the dudes standing next to her in her Bayonetta pic. Guys have wide shoulders, bulkier arms and legs.

Have you ever seen a woman nude in person before? Not trying to be a smartass here either.
 

Shanadeus

Banned
DY_nasty said:
But if that person is by all biological definition a male, shouldn't that be it? I'm not getting a major part of the issue.

"I'd like to be referred to and acknowledged as something I'm not - accept and tolerate it" There's something wrong with that. I can't just go outside and yell, "Hey world, I'm no longer black" and expect my bags not to get checked every time I leave wal-mart.

Edit: Yeah, surprise surprise @ the photo. I'm honestly trying to understand this whole thing better though.
If it looks female, it's a girl. Gender isn't decided by genetics.
If a black guy in your example looked white then I'd definitely call him a white guy, no matter how black his genes are - Michael Jackson is a good example.
 

btf1980

Member
Shanadeus said:
If it looks female, it's a girl. Gender isn't decided by genetics.
If a black guy in your example looked white then I'd definitely call him a white guy, no matter how black his genes are - Michael Jackson is a good example.

Michael Jackson was considered white? By who? I thought he was considered the weird guy who had vitiligo and then proceeded to bleach himself into oblivion. No one saw MJ and went "wow, look at that eccentric white man."
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Shanadeus said:
If it looks female, it's a girl. Gender isn't decided by genetics.
If a black guy in your example looked white then I'd definitely call him a white guy, no matter how black his genes are - Michael Jackson is a good example.
That makes absolutely no sense. If you called Michael Jackson white, you'd be wrong. Not only that, but some may even take offense to it. Lighter skinned African-Americans get crap all the time for similar statements.

If I call Kayo a man, which this person actually is, how am I wrong? I don't get that at all.

Its almost like they'd like a special rule set in place just for them.
 

harSon

Banned
Koshiba said:
Honestly, a lot of fashion models are so skinny they don't seem to have any curves or boobs at all.. It's pretty common knowledge there are a lot of models that look like they have the body of a 12 year old boy. Hell, if you're a fashion model, they don't even want your hips to be past a certain size.

Ashley Greene
 
Shanadeus said:
If it looks female, it's a girl. Gender isn't decided by genetics.
If a black guy in your example looked white then I'd definitely call him a white guy, no matter how black his genes are - Michael Jackson is a good example.

You're insane.
 

btf1980

Member
Verne Troyer is the same height as a 3 yr old. I mean, he's an adult male, but if he's the same height as a toddler, by scott he is a toddler no matter what his genes say! Whut?
 

mollipen

Member
DY_nasty said:
Because its really easy to not know anything about the topic and it seems most of the lines, boundaries, and sensitive topics are just made up along the way. I'll go ahead and say flatout that I'm completely ignorant to the whole thing and generally want to know more - still, there's gonna be a load of people behind me that are just as ignorant and won't say that they're willing to learn more about it even if they actually are willing to do so.

I think if you really want to learn more about the topic, one good place to start would be to read through the TransGAF here on GAF. You'll find stories from people about what they've gone through, why they made the decisions that they've made, and the search to figure out who they really are.

I don't at all look down on people who don't understand this topic, because it can be very complex and is something that still isn't out and public a lot of the time. The problem, as I see it, is that as of now what is assumed is that "penis = boy, vagina = girl".

That would be fine if that's what made people who they are, but it isn't. I'm going to assume you're a male, and forgive me if I'm wrong in assuming that. Are you a guy because you have a penis? What I mean is, is that the entire reason you'd consider yourself male? My guess would be probably not. You're probably a guy because you have a penis, AND because you feel like a guy, relate to being a guy, think like a guy, identify yourself with a guy, so on and so on.

What happens sometimes is that, for some reason, not all of those aspects are true. You have somebody who is born into a male body, but then they don't identify with being a guy, they don't see themselves as a guy, they don't relate to being a guy, none of that. For all of those things, they instead feel like and see themselves as female. Or, you have somebody who is born in a woman's body, but does have all of those feelings of identifying with being a guy, thinking like a guy, so on and so on.

I think the first step to getting better at dealing with gender issues is then asking ourselves what is more important about a person: who they are physically, or who they are mentally/emotionally. Now, I think most would say the latter. Is Stephen Hawking who he is physically, or who he is mentally/emotionally?

If you really want to give the topic some though, ask yourself a few simple questions as a start. If you are a guy now, but tomorrow woke up and you had a woman's body, which gender would you relate with? It's a simple question, but really answers a lot. If you suddenly had a woman's body, would that make you a woman, or would the fact that who you are is male be more important than that? Or look at it in another, somewhat sillier way. If you take a Toyota Prius, take the outside body off, and put on the chasis a Ford pickup body, what kind of vehicle is it? Is it a Toyota, or a Ford? A car, or a truck?

If we can say that who a person is is who they are inside, not outside, then we should allow ourselves to say that a person who is male physically but in every other way identifies with being female may indeed be a female. I know how hard it can be to accept that, because we have it so ingrained in us that the equation for what gender you are is as simple as a check of the crotch. But again, if we're then smart enough to understand that there's far more to being a human being than that, then we need to start to accept that life can't always be explained by such simple answers.
 

Shanadeus

Banned
btf1980 said:
Verne Troyer is the same height as a 3 yr old. I mean, he's an adult male, but if he's the same height as a toddler, by scott he is a toddler no matter what his genes say! Whut?
Does he look like a toddler?
Way to miss my reasoning.
If he was like a toddler in both mind and body then yes, I'd consider him a toddler.
Even if he's biologically a 40 year old man.

DY_nasty said:
That makes absolutely no sense. If you called Michael Jackson white, you'd be wrong. Not only that, but some may even take offense to it. Lighter skinned African-Americans get crap all the time for similar statements.

If I call Kayo a man, which this person actually is, how am I wrong? I don't get that at all.

Its almost like they'd like a special rule set in place just for them.
Not really, their gender is simply female if they fulfill certain criteria. Calling her a man would be making a special rule set in place just for her, calling her a (biological) male would on the other hand be correct. And Michael Jackson is as white as you one can get, please don't try to bunch him together with lighter skinned african-americans.
 

Nameless

Member
Ferrio said:
The transgender thing is becoming really big even among males. Which to me has always makes sense, as a straight male I'm attracted to femininity.

I mean... Buck Angel is biologically a woman, even still has all the parts but I am noway attracted to him. There would be no hesitation if I had to pick between the woman in the op or this:

Ehh. I'd rather beat off into my jeans and leave it at that instead of choosing between either of them.
 

harSon

Banned
shidoshi said:
What happens sometimes is that, for some reason, not all of those aspects are true. You have somebody who is born into a male body, but then they don't identify with being a guy, they don't see themselves as a guy, they don't relate to being a guy, none of that. For all of those things, they instead feel like and see themselves as female. Or, you have somebody who is born in a woman's body, but does have all of those feelings of identifying with being a guy, thinking like a guy, so on and so on.

I always wondered, is this truly an indicator of someone being born into the wrong body? Because outside of the biological and phenotypic differences between men and women, everything we consider to be gender related are socially constructed.
 

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Shanadeus said:
If it looks female, it's a girl. Gender isn't decided by genetics.
If a black guy in your example looked white then I'd definitely call him a white guy, no matter how black his genes are - Michael Jackson is a good example.

man you're wrong like all the time
 

Masked Man

I said wow
Good for her for having the courage to come out. :D
Also, I'm very pleased to hear that she's been receiving so much support from people. Gender identity is a touchy and confusing subject, but the more people that discuss it, the more likely we are to make progress toward widespread understanding.
 
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