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[coolasj19]

This is some Microsoft PR thinking right here.

I don't have enough patience to make Kaz Hirai's Fun Facts. Just change the green to blue, use Kaz's face, and insert the quote.

It was stated on the "Playstation Blog", not "the Guerrilla Games Blog". It's Sony.
As to your other point, I suppose "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is"

+ Posted by Michiel van der Leeuw on Nov 04, 2013 // Technical Director, Guerrilla
It's Guerrilla.

Yeah, 1080p is explicitly not 1080i. If they were the same thing we wouldn't differentiate between progressive and interlaced.

This is true. And to be fair to myself I've acknowledged my mistake even though I already knew better and edited the post.

 

[ElTorro]

So it outputs 1080p "natively" -- which means it is, technically, native 1080p.

That's all semantics and definition games. The important point is that they had to reduce the number of pixels produced per frame out of performance reasons, and that's what these discussions are usually motivated by, since nothing can have a better quality than rendering 1920x1080 pixels every frame.

 

[Widgetcraft]

The most idiotic post I've seen yet. 1080P is NOT 1080i. 1080i is an actual resolution and its exactly what is being used here.

You don't even know what the p stands for in 1080p do you

Yeah, 1080p is explicitly not 1080i. If they were the same thing we wouldn't differentiate between progressive and interlaced.

 

[VanWinkle]

It isn't 1080p, it isn't 960x1080p and it isn't 1080i. it is some weird amalgamation of 1080p and 1080i.

I think, speaking in power terms, 960x1080 could be considered accurate, since the game is only actually rendering half of the horizontal pixels during any given frame. Now, if you want to say, what are we actually seeing on our screens? It's a 1080p image that isn't really upscaled but isn't native rendering either.

 

[Loudninja]

It isn't 1080p, it isn't 960x1080p and it isn't 1080i. it is some weird amalgamation of 1080p and 1080i.

I have to say this is a odd generation already!

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

It isn't 1080p, it isn't 960x1080p and it isn't 1080i. it is some weird amalgamation of 1080p and 1080i.

1080π

 

[MeBecomingI]

To be fair to the thread, the worst thing anyone has said is that they won't ever buy another one of their games. Your post on hyperbole is... well, hyperbole.

It might seem that way, except I've seen that type of shit in other threads related to Killzone and sadly, it isn't hyperbole. To be fair, that happens for other studios as well and just the same it is ridiculous. Guerrilla is just an easier target it seems.

 

[HTupolev]

since nothing can have a better quality than rendering 1920x1080 pixels every frame.

Sure it can! You can get better quality by rendering more pixels than 1920x1080!

 

[McFadge]

And so the definition for this new resolution begins.

I'm throwing in chips for 1920i x 1080p.

 

[hawk2025]

That's all semantics and definition games. The important point is that they had to reduce the number of pixels produced per frame out of performance reasons, and that's what these discussions are usually motivated by, since nothing can have a better quality than rendering 1920x1080 pixels every frame.

Hence the other paragraph of my post

 

[ItIsOkBro]

It isn't 1080p, it isn't 960x1080p and it isn't 1080i. it is some weird amalgamation of 1080p and 1080i.

2frame1080p

 

[VanWinkle]

It was stated on the "Playstation Blog", not "the Guerrilla Games Blog". It's Sony.

As to your other point, I suppose "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is"

Actually, "native 1080p" was stated on both.

 

[PJV3]

1080π

I like it.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

So GG kinda lied but not really, and its kinda 1080p but not really. The blurryness in MP is kinda caused by the resolution but not really... does that sound about right?

 

[Swarna]

Maybe it's cause I wasn't following the game but I instantly knew it was sub-native when I played it at a friend's house. Didn't know everyone assumed it to be full HD until now. lol

 

[RoKKeR]

Saw this thread go up before the Oscars started.

Not surprised to see the post count, lol.

 

[beast786]

This is some Microsoft PR thinking right here.

No man, MS version would have been


Ryse is native 1080p*
















*On dev kit PC at crytek office

 

[ElTorro]

1080π

Brilliant.

 

[GHG]

They were misleading rather than outright lying but, given the situation, I think trying to explain it during PS4/launch hype would have been a bit of a nightmare. Even so, they still had time to clear up the matter once normal marketing wound down and did not. So, they still get a disappointed head shake and a "don't do it again".

But seriously... How do you go about explaining this:

It isn't 1080p, it isn't 960x1080p and it isn't 1080i. it is some weird amalgamation of 1080p and 1080i.

To the general public? Even the technically minded amongst us are struggling to get a grip on it.

It was easier for them to just shrug and say "well the tv or the ps4 won't be upscaling anything so lets just say it's 1080p".

The fact that it's taken this long for anybody to even figure it all out says it all. It's not some cut and dry situation where the output is 960x1080 and then up scaled.

 

[Havel]

So GG kinda lied but not really, and its kinda 1080p but not really. The blurryness in MP is kinda caused by the resolution but not really... does that sound about right?

Not really.

Spoiler

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[btags]

It isn't 1080i, because a single frame of 1080i is 1920x540. They basically took the principle of 1080i and flipped it on its side, literally.

New marketing spin: the game is 1920i, 1920 is greater than 1080, thus better!

 

[McFadge]

1080π

Haha, that's pretty great.

 

[beast786]

So GG kinda lied but not really, and its kinda 1080p but not really. The blurryness in MP is kinda caused by the resolution but not really... does that sound about right?

Kinda but not really

Spoiler

;p. [/]

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I have to say this is a odd generation already!

792p, 960p, weird 1080p and more. I love this generation as its taking a piss on the entirety of resolution-GAF.

 

[ArchedThunder]

1080π

BRB, making a wiki article.

 

[Melchiah]

Some people seem to be a little confused at the resolution thinking that it upscales from 960x1080 to 1920x1080 like you would upscale a sub 1080p game to 1080p, it doesn't. I made some images to help.

Okay, so let's say the red lines are what is being updated while the black lines are empty space.

Now this is what it looks like on frame 1
On frame 2 this is what it looks like

And when frame 2 comes it it blurs the information from frame 1 to fill in the black spaces. This is why it looks fine when standing still but looks blurry and odd in motion. If we could take a single frame of KZSF's multiplayer with this effect turned off it would look something like this.
Zoom in to see the full effect.

The grey lines are dead space where nothing is being rendered on this frame.

So techinically the game is rendering at 1920x1080, just not on each frame.

Interesting. I'm not a fan of competitive multiplayer, so I only tried the botzone briefly, set to 1-on-1, to see what some of the maps look like. I really didn't notice any blurring while moving slowly, and looking at the surroundings. Was this rendering method used on the botzone?

 

[PJV3]

So GG kinda lied but not really, and its kinda 1080p but not really. The blurryness in MP is kinda caused by the resolution but not really... does that sound about right?

Sony VR, not really.

 

[Cuyejo]

You know what, their solution is so clever I am actually more impressed than dissapointed, this is the first time something like this has been done in a videogame, AFAIK. It is still kind of weird though, they went through all this trouble for a variable framerate...

 

[VanWinkle]

But seriously... How do you go about explaining this:



To the general public? Even the technically minded amongst us are struggling to get a grip on it.

Just say it's rendering at 960x1080. If they ask how that makes sense, they could say they are filling in the lost horizontal pixels in each frame with the horizontal pixels from the previous frame. If people are unable to grasp it, oh well.

 

[Bsigg12]

No man, MS version would have been


Ryse is native 1080p*







*On dev kit PC at crytek office

Haha once the stacked GPU gets turned on it'll get an update to 1080p. Then the Xbox will show its TRUE power.

Spoiler

/s

 

[coolasj19]

1080π

And so the definition for this new resolution begins.
I'm throwing in chips for 1920i x 1080p.

2frame1080p

Waiting for the title change.
Killzone 1886 Resolution Naming Contest

I'm liking 1080π.

 

[Kuro]

The most idiotic post I've seen yet. 1080P is NOT 1080i. 1080i is an actual resolution and its exactly what is being used here.

You don't even know what the p stands for in 1080p do you

Is there a reason you're getting so irrationally upset?

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Actually, "native 1080p" was stated on both.

Both owned by Sony

 

[VanWinkle]

Both owned by Sony

The fact is, Guerilla said it was native 1080p, and Sony said it was native 1080p.

 

[HTupolev]

You know what, their solution is so clever I am actually more impressed than dissapointed, this is the first time something like this has been done in a videogame, AFAIK.

It's the first time I've heard of a final game build using reprojection to make up for base pixel count.

However, temporal sampling has been used in a fair number of games at this point. It's just that it's normally used to get "supersampled" results from base res, as opposed to base res from sub-res.

 

[Havel]

Interesting. I'm not a fan of competitive multiplayer, so I only tried the botzone briefly, set to 1-on-1, to see what some of the maps look like. I really didn't notice any blurring while moving slowly, and looking at the surroundings. Was this rendering method used on the botzone?

Someone needs to take 2 screenshots of the same area in the MP, one while stationary, the other while moving.

Motion blur might mask it a bit though.

 

[Jabba]

The day we actually ditch DF for comparisons and actually get someone, with proper knowledge about these things, and instead of writing long ass articles with a bunch of crap just give us bulletpoints and graphics with framerates and other relevant data, is going to be great.
But unfortunately, we're stuck with them.

I've been saying we need something like this http://www.theaudiocritic.com/plog/
for videogames for a while now.

 

[Bornstellar]

PR said 1080p. Game is not rendering each frame at 1080p. Therefore, PR lied.

Discuss.

 

[HTupolev]

Motion blur might mask it a bit though.

Maybe not as much as you think. I tried the MP earlier and I didn't actually notice a ton of motion blur, if any. The single player has this absurd motion blur that smears onto your first-person gun model and everything, but MP did not seem to.

 

[GHG]

Just say it's rendering at 960x1080. If they ask how that makes sense, they could say they are filling in the lost horizontal pixels in each frame with the horizontal pixels from the previous frame. If people are unable to grasp it, oh well.

It's not that simple though. What you see in a single frame is actually 1080p, albeit blurred. You are describing what the consoles frame buffer sees.

Should we then say it runs at 30fps as well then taking all of this into account?

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

The fact is, Guerilla said it was native 1080p, and Sony said it was native 1080p.

Do you really think Sid Shuman was going on anything other than what the developers told him or what information he had to hand?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

It isn't 1080p, it isn't 960x1080p and it isn't 1080i. it is some weird amalgamation of 1080p and 1080i.

1080pi

EDIT: God damn it.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

It isn't 1080p, it isn't 960x1080p and it isn't 1080i. it is some weird amalgamation of 1080p and 1080i.

Whatever it is, the resulting image is ugly as fuck and they shouldn't do it any more. I would have rather they upscaled it from 720p and hit a solid 60 fps or did 1080p at 30 fps.

 

[leng jai]

The best part is the game still runs pretty bad in 24 player mode even with all these concessions. Nowhere near 60fps and sub 30 at times. Technically speaking KZ4 isn't all that impressive multiplayer wise.

 

[Kuro]

PR said 1080p. Game is not rendering each frame at 1080p. Therefore, PR lied.

Discuss.

This, GG lied about the MP's true resolution end of story.

 

[VanWinkle]

Someone needs to take 2 screenshots of the same area in the MP, one while stationary, the other while moving.

Motion blur might mask it a bit though.

Standing still:

Slight movement:

 

[Lima]

1080pi

960i x 1080p

I'm going with this.

 

[Chobel]

1080π

lol, brilliant.

 

[Paz]

This is pretty interesting really, so are they using a 1080i buffer and interpolating between frames to create a 1080p output? reminds me a lot of the experimentation Lucas Arts were doing with frame interpolation to turn locked 30fps in to 60fps (Similar to what TV's do but if you do it engine-side it actually reduces input lag and has less artifacts).

The whole lied to/misled part is a shame and will I guess end up the focus of this thread, but I haven't heard of many people exploring temporal resolution stuff before, this seems like it could produce a higher quality image than a typical upscale although I guess it would always be subject to potential artifacts.

I am not particularly a tech guy but I have been fascinated by interpolation methods for a while now, never really thought about how you could use them this way.

 

[Korezo]

I new online looked blurry as hell, I thought I was just going nuts.