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[RedNumberFive]

They weren't pretending to play a cut-scene. They were pretending to play the game, as it actually looks and plays and exactly as we saw it played later that day by thousands of people. Here's how they presented Kinectimals, for example, and here is how people played it.,

Why pretend in the first place? Nintendo and Sony both had some technical issues with their products, but at least they were honest about it. I at least got the sense from them that the products will work as advertised. With Microsoft, I just saw a bunch of half-truths, and actors pretending to play games in front of a pre-recorded video.

 

[Argyle]

what's that "input lag"-thing i read here?

How is the input lag for kinect?

i thought you "don't even recognize it"

I only got to play Dance Central, a game which is designed so that the lag does not affect gameplay.

I was watching someone else play and the lag between reality and their actions showing up in the guide silhouette was noticeable. My friend thought it was half a second, I felt it was half a beat (I remember they were playing to Hella Good which is 115 bpm or so...so that would put it in the 200-300ms range).

Not sure if you can disable features in the detection software to reduce lag, but that's what I observed personally...

 

[Tormentoso]

What do you mean "No matter if the product works or not in real life". Of course that matters. It's the difference between lying by showing something that isn't the case, and showing the actual game in it's current state, recorded earlier, but pretending that it is live to prevent a fuck up. Why? Because anything can mess up on stage, even Zelda, and they wanted to be 100% certain that Kinect looked good, and worked as well as it does off-stage for it's unveiling.

Would I care if the Gears of War 3 demo was recorded hours earlier and they were pretending to play on stage? No... why the fuck would I care about that? Seriously. I'd only care if they had done something to the footage to portray the gameplay as something it isn't. If they've simply played the game and recorded a perfect take, then I honestly couldn't give a shit. I'm sure a lot of games played on-stage are pre-recorded and pretended to be played.



Yup, and that's exactly what happened. There is video footage of the press and public playing every single game demonstrated shown on stage.

Hiding potential limitations from consumers,when you had advertise your product as the second coming of Jesus is actually lying.

It doesn't matter if they record it,they could have use a different camera from all you know to capture that feel and then at the end the product actually doesn't deliver,this things are not show on movies they are show live,because that is how you will play it,Nintendo did not fear and went head on,hell even sony who's tech is a new as Kinect went head on.

This is as sad as the Killzone 2 CG,lying is lying no matter what,i like how people say that they record it to not mess up anything on stages,but for what is worth they fake the whole thing to hide potential problems and limitations the tech has.

 

[nickcv]

the whole discussion made me constantly think about an old sega commercial

and i came up with this:

 

[Deleted member 10571]

the whole discussion made me constantly think about and old sega commercial

and i came up with this:

This is neither funny, subtle or intelligent, this is just a poor excuse for a straight-up flame.

 

[nickcv]

This is neither funny, subtle or intelligent, this is just a poor excuse for a straight-up flame.

it's just like the genesis commercial, and it's mostly making fun of that and the name MS gave to natal, it's not my fault if kinect sounds like "can not"

and i don't think it's a flame, it's not my fault if the other two companies allow 4 players gaming at the same time and the use of a chair.

the couch vs kinect jpeg it's a flame as mush as mine

 

[expy]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3180165

UK-based online retailer Play.com has listed the full technical specifications of Microsoft's upcoming Kinect, as provided by Microsoft.

While the system apparently tracks up to six people at a time, it is only capable of tracking two "active players."

We're not sure exactly how an "active player" is defined, but reading the specifications, the term is again used to describe the twenty-point skeleton tracking system and "ability to map players to Live Avatars," so it would appear that for all intents and purposes, only two people can play full-body Kinect games at a time.

The full spec sheet, courtesy Play.com, is below.

Sensor
Colour and depth-sensing lenses
Voice microphone array
Tilt motor for sensor adjustment
Fully compatible with existing Xbox 360 consoles
Field of View
Horizontal field of view: 57 degrees
Vertical field of view: 43 degrees
Physical tilt range: ± 27 degrees
Depth sensor range: 1.2m - 3.5m
Data Streams
320x240 16-bit depth @ 30 frames/sec
640x480 32-bit colour@ 30 frames/sec
16-bit audio @ 16 kHz
Skeletal Tracking System
Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players
Tracks 20 joints per active player
Ability to map active players to Live Avatars
Audio System
Live party chat and in-game voice chat (requires Xbox Live Gold Membership)
Echo cancellation system enhances voice input
Speech recognition in multiple

 

[[Nintex]]

So it tracks 4 bags of potatoes and 2 players or?

 

[expy]

So it tracks 4 bags of potatoes and 2 players or?

Yup. :lol

 

[-COOLIO-]

the whole discussion made me constantly think about an old sega commercial

and i came up with this:

:lol

 

[Dacvak]

At this point, I'm not sure if Kinect is even a real product. I feel like Microsoft is going to ship a surprise portable in Kinect boxes or something. This whole thing has to be some gigantic viral marketing ploy.

 

[Neuromancer]

While the system apparently tracks up to six people at a time, it is only capable of tracking two "active players."

What the F

 

[gofreak]

That's a kind of narrow field of view. If people thought the PSeye's fov looked 'cramped', this is quite narrower still. (Another more practical reason to only support 2 players too).

 

[levious]

What the F

six people taking turns playing two at a time

 

[Mr. Miyato]

Microsoft may be really smart if they are trying to anchor the 150$ price point to consumers and then drop the price to 120$ when it nears release date. As noone had any idea what price to expect (I saw one site claiming it would be "50-200$") this move would suddenly make the device cheap as hell, as opposed to retailers first claiming it would be 99$ and then raising it to 120$.

I'm not sure I should give Microsoft this much credit yet though as the final price might very well be 199$ :lol

 

[thetrin]

the whole discussion made me constantly think about an old sega commercial

and i came up with this:

I fear you don't understand the original joke in the Sega commercial.

 

[Hugbot]

I fear you don't understand the original joke in the Sega commercial.

There were some clever photoshops in the thread but that's the only one that made me actually chuckle, so maybe he's better off not really "getting" the original.

 

[itsgreen]

it's just like the genesis commercial, and it's mostly making fun of that and the name MS gave to natal, it's not my fault if kinect sounds like "can not"

and i don't think it's a flame, it's not my fault if the other two companies allow 4 players gaming at the same time and the use of a chair.

the couch vs kinect jpeg it's a flame as mush as mine

Yeah, no... like the idea. But it doesn't make sense...

A couch doesn't sit, you sit on a couch. And a couch isn't 90$. Atleast none without fleas. And certainly not one with four seats...

 

[Neuromancer]

the whole discussion made me constantly think about an old sega commercial

and i came up with this:

[URL="http://creationgears.com/img/kinect.jpg"][U]http://creationgears.com/img/kinect.jpg[/U][/URL][img][/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, is English not your first language?

 

[The Super Bob]

Bit of a bummer but if I had four people dancing and jumping around in my living room I'm sure there would be injuries to people and destruction of furniture.

 

[gofreak]

Woah woah woah...hang on a second...that spec sheet also lists the depth resolution at 320x240. Aren't we assuming 640x480?

 

[gunther]

Bit of a bummer but if I had four people dancing and jumping around in my living room I'm sure there would be injuries to people and destruction of furniture.

Thats the whole point!!!

 

[levious]

I fear you don't understand the original joke in the Sega commercial.

I think he was going for "kinect cannot" having the same or similar word play as "does what Nintendon't"

 

[El Sloth]

the couch vs kinect jpeg it's a flame as mush as mine

That last part is horribly untrue. I once found my brothers copy of Halo 3 under the cushions my couch!

 

[Jtrizzy]

well that sucks. Sadly, the only appeal of Kinnect to me (currently) would be the dancing game, and being able to do more than 2 player seemed like a given.

 

[LM4sure]

haha bravo nickcv!!

 

[clav]

it's just like the genesis commercial, and it's mostly making fun of that and the name MS gave to natal, it's not my fault if kinect sounds like "can not"

http://liquidarchitecture.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/nintendont.jpg

and i don't think it's a flame, it's not my fault if the other two companies allow 4 players gaming at the same time and the use of a chair.

the couch vs kinect jpeg it's a flame as mush as mine

http://i45.tinypic.com/2dgnokg.png

Where can I get a brand new couch for $90?????

 

[freddy]

This is neither funny, subtle or intelligent, this is just a poor excuse for a straight-up flame.

U mad?

 

[cakefoo]

That's a kind of narrow field of view. If people thought the PSeye's fov looked 'cramped', this is quite narrower still. (Another more practical reason to only support 2 players too).

43 degrees vertical is worse than the PS Eye's zoomed-in mode! (56*)

Just checked in EyeCreate to see how far back I have to stand to fit in the fov.

I'm 5'8" and I have to stand back 9 feet! If I raise my arms above my head or jump I'm out of frame. And I can't go any further back- I'm backing myself into a corner where I'd have limited mobility.

57 degrees horizontal isn't much better, especially for 2-player games. It'll comfortably accommodate one person with their arms out, but 2 people? Forget it.

And here I thought I was being realistic in assuming that Kinect's camera would be better than the PS Eye's wide-angle mode (75*).

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Goro is sad that he can only play single player. ;_;

 

[WillyFive]

The only thing going faster than the hype for Kinect is the credibility of the people in this forum.

:lol at the guy who said no-one plays 4 player on the Wii because it's not possible.

 

[CrushDance]

Goro is sad that he can only play single player. ;_;

:lol omg.

 

[theRizzle]

Goro is sad that he can only play single player. ;_;

:lol :lol :lol

I just had three people come over to my desk and one asked me what was so funny that it sounded like I was dying. Cheers for that.

 

[Graphics Horse]

43 degrees vertical is worse than the PS Eye's zoomed-in mode! (56*)

Just checked in EyeCreate to see how far back I have to stand to fit in the fov.

I'm 5'8" and I have to stand back 9 feet! If I raise my arms above my head or jump I'm out of frame. And I can't go any further back- I'm backing myself into a corner where I'd have limited mobility.

57 degrees horizontal isn't much better, especially for 2-player games. It'll comfortably accommodate one person with their arms out, but 2 people? Forget it.

And here I thought I was being realistic in assuming that Kinect's camera would be better than the PS Eye's wide-angle mode (75*).

43 degrees? what the hell! I guess it's alright for kids...
Your test sounds wrong though, is the camera at the right angle? At 45 degrees 9 feet away should equal 9 feet tall.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

Goro is sad that he can only play single player. ;_;

holy shiiiiiiii :lol

 

[cakefoo]

43 degrees? what the hell! I guess it's alright for kids...
Your test sounds wrong though, is the camera at the right angle? At 45 degrees 9 feet away should equal 9 feet tall.

I'm doing it straight on, with the camera about ribcage high

You sure you got your numbers straight? Maybe distance to height is 1:1 in a 90 degree fov?

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'm doing it straight on, with the camera about ribcage high

You sure you got your numbers straight? Maybe distance to height is 1:1 in a 90 degree fov?

Yes, 90 degrees would give you a height equal to twice the distance.
I don't think those PSeye numbers are for vertical FOV, could be horizontal or diagonal.

 

[Lonely1]

43 degrees? what the hell! I guess it's alright for kids...
Your test sounds wrong though, is the camera at the right angle? At 45 degrees 9 feet away should equal 9 feet tall.

yeah, but remember that the camera has the mechnical tracking thing. Now we know why.

 

[filopilo]

yeah, but remember that the camera has the mechnical tracking thing. Now we know why.

You think the thing will move to search your feet then arms then feet while playing ?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

You think the thing will move to search your feet then arms then feet while playing ?

It won't have to if you're standing at the optimum distance (6 feet or more). Really, the angles don't bother me. I've watched it demoed dozens of times with different games, different people of all different shapes and sizes and at different distances and it seems fine to me.

 

[Vdragoon]

the whole discussion made me constantly think about an old sega commercial

and i came up with this:

that other guy was pretty mad, i suggest you change it to MICROSOFT KIN NOT? something like that anyways.

 

[mckmas8808]

That's a kind of narrow field of view. If people thought the PSeye's fov looked 'cramped', this is quite narrower still. (Another more practical reason to only support 2 players too).

That's what I was thinking. But I'm curious, do you know what the field of view is for the PS Eye?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

That's a kind of narrow field of view. If people thought the PSeye's fov looked 'cramped', this is quite narrower still. (Another more practical reason to only support 2 players too).

Hmm...yeah, it does seem a little bit narrow even if the gameplay footage of two-player simultaneous titles seem to offer plenty of space between players. I wonder how that works given that some video footage has seemed to show the ability to easily accommodate four or so people in a frame with dynamic zooming and panning to incorporate more people into the frame. That along with the dynamic motorized tilt should prove enough to be a solution to any sort of cramped space the default FOV might indicate without having to have people be placed too far away to all of.

Woah woah woah...hang on a second...that spec sheet also lists the depth resolution at 320x240. Aren't we assuming 640x480?

Not sure where that resolution for 640x480 comes from, but given the detail apparent in the Engadget Show, I don't think it's a problem. I still wonder about the 30Hz capture rate...seems too slow to adequately capture body motion yet it doesn't seem to be an issue in games shown with fast movement. I'm thinking it's more update speed and not capture speed, at least for the NIR depth sensing.

 

[Eccocid]

oh come on. who the fuck really plays ANYTHING with 4 players at the same time? IN ONE ROOM? geez man. even as far back as the days of arcades 4 player units were a rare specialty. what wii games have 4 players playing at the same time where you are actually all active? no smash doesnt count.

Almost for 2 years ever weekend we played Bomberman, Poy Poy 2 and Crash Team Racing with 4 players at the same time with a multitap on Ps1! Those were my most fun gaming years!

 

[Schrade]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3180165

Interesting. If these specs are real, then they've certainly dropped since it was first announced. I seem to remember their RGB camera able to go to 1600x1200 or something.

Also what's funny is the PS Eye can do 640x480 at 75 fps.

Color depth is different, of course.

 

[UFRA]

What kind of couch only costs $90?

 

[gofreak]

Interesting. If these specs are real, then they've certainly dropped since it was first announced. I seem to remember their RGB camera able to go to 1600x1200 or something.

Also what's funny is the PS Eye can do 640x480 at 75 fps.

Color depth is different, of course.

PSeye offers 'uncompressed' yuv or yuyv. Not sure how that compares to '32-bit color'.

But in fact, in pretty much every respect - asides from the depth camera of course - those specs are inferior to PSeye. Lower camera capture rate, smaller FOV, lower quality mics (PSeye's are 16-bit 48hz).

That's not what I'd expect from something far more modern and apparently many times the price. Which is why I think there's something wrong with that picture i.e. the proposed price in particular. I'm more certain than ever than the $150 stuff is pure manipulation of value perception ahead of a real price reveal.

 

[Alx]

Interesting. If these specs are real, then they've certainly dropped since it was first announced. I seem to remember their RGB camera able to go to 1600x1200 or something.

That's for static pictures, I think, not video stream. Maybe it's still able to do that, but the limitation with video streams is the USB2 bandwidth. We calculated a few days ago in another kinect thread that the pseye used almost all of the 480 Mb/s when running 640x480@60fps.

We assumed at the time that for kinect, the depth map was 8 bits and 640x480. If it turns out to be 320x240 and 16 bits, it's a bit smaller, but should still take a lot of the bandwith.

Even if the lower XY resolution is a bit disappointing, the higher depth resolution is a good surprise.

But in fact, in pretty much every respect - asides from the depth camera of course - those specs are inferior to PSeye. Lower camera capture rate, smaller FOV, lower quality mics (PSeye's are 16-bit 48hz).

I think it's not about having the higher performances available with current technology, but making the best compromise for what you want to do.
As said above, the video resolution and framerate is dictated by USB2 limitations, and I suppose that the field of view is due to the depth sensor (either technical limitations or because they wanted a given precision range). They could obviously have used a wider FOV for the camera, but it's half useless if it covers areas that the depth camera doesn't.

 

[linsivvi]

Almost for 2 years ever weekend we played Bomberman, Poy Poy 2 and Crash Team Racing with 4 players at the same time with a multitap on Ps1! Those were my most fun gaming years!

Nothing beats 8 players Mario Kart DS or Bomberman in the same room.

 

[szaromir]

There's no IR camera anymore?
Ath these resolutions, this thing should be extremely cheap to produce. I suspect they will be bundling it with every console, $199 ArcadeS + Kinect bundle to directly compete with Wii.