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Kinect creators say technology supports only two players at a time
- Thread starter Ignis Fatuus
- Start date
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
What annoys me is how little play this is getting even in the gaming press, though I can't say I'm surprised given the nature of game journalism. You'd think it would have been Gamespot and 1up and the like that would have asked the hard questions that would have broken this story--instead it was Kotaku who got confirmation about the seating issue and Joystiq that broke this story days after the conferences. That's saying something.spats said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Exactly. Just look at the PSP Go, GAF complained about all of its faults and that thing flies off shelves so fast you can't even see it moving.bj00rn_ said:
Mr. Miyato
Neo Member
markot said:
I agree too that they shouldn't show videos of it working (The Trivia Game from last years E3-commercial comes to mind, where the families compete against each other) when it clearly doesn't, I just don't see a lot of use for it when you can't even sit in your couch while you play :lol
Has Sony showed any Move games that has 4 people playing at the same time?
brain_stew
Member
bj00rn_ said:
Do you not realise how stupid this sounds? I was one of the few who saw the Wii taking off when many bemoaned its potential for success but I'm rubbishing Kinect (just as Nintendo did) because its a shitty product.
This isn't the Wii.
bj00rn_ said:
but two players max isn't a "hardcore complaint", it's a real limitation that will put off a lot of their target demographic. It's already bad enough that they're entering the Wii's playground with a flagship model that costs at least twice the price of the leading competitor, but this is going to make a lot of families think twice about picking up Kinect.
Mr. Miyato said:
Doesn't the Wii mostly use gesture motion controls for the games?
If that's the case outside of point and click there really isn't any game that can't be translated to the controller.
When I think about it a little I have to wonder why MS hasn't jumped in on the 4 player co-op platformer scene hell even Sony has tried to capitalise that market with LittleBigPlanet and Modnations Racers to varying degrees of success.
Graphics Horse
Member
This is getting thoroughly confusing.
If you look at their own site, PrimeSense sell their tech on the basis that you navigate while sitting down, yet it's their own chip that does the skeletal tracking which only works for standing up?
Or is there simpler navigation tech we haven't heard about? If so, why isn't it being used yet, and what processing will the XBox be able to do with the raw data?
If you look at their own site, PrimeSense sell their tech on the basis that you navigate while sitting down, yet it's their own chip that does the skeletal tracking which only works for standing up?
Or is there simpler navigation tech we haven't heard about? If so, why isn't it being used yet, and what processing will the XBox be able to do with the raw data?
Alx
Member
The Faceless Master said:
Trickier to the point of maybe not being feasible on current hardware... I'm quite confident that the sitting people scenario can be solved on the 360, and the full tracking of people might be optimized to handle more than 2.
But I wouldn't bet that a 1:1 body tracking of a single person by image alone could be made fast and reliable enough for a game, even using 100% of the CPU.
Unknown One
Member
I bet Microsoft Marketing will not even mention anything at all. It's not false advertising if nothing is said or shown to mislead from the actual product.
Guy: So will Kinect have 4 player games?
PR: Typical PR spin about how advance Kinect is and how it's a game changer.
Guy: Will I be able to play games while sitting.
PR: The same PR spin we got earlier about this issue.
Guy: So will Kinect have 4 player games?
PR: Typical PR spin about how advance Kinect is and how it's a game changer.
Guy: Will I be able to play games while sitting.
PR: The same PR spin we got earlier about this issue.
Graphics Horse said:
As said earlier Apparetnly Micro has claimed that the software is all their own so it seems as though they are not using Primesene's software. Not only that they removed the chip from the unit and made it so the X360 does all the processing.
I don't know which is causing the problem, hell it could be a combination of the both. I am guessing that it is Micro's software since they say the sitting problem willl be fixed, and if it was the cpu then it wouldn't ever work because the cpu isn't there.
Windom Earle
Member
As expected. I always thought the "bububu NATAL haz 8 players MOVE am doomed" mentality was unrealistic. Kinect turns out to be more of a trainwreck every day.
CrushDance
Banned
:lol That's not a couch man.Ignis Fatuus said:
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
It's a better product than Kinect!CrushDance said:
longdi said:
Well they say bad press is better then no press and it is getting people to talk about Kinect far more then we are about move.
That said you got to think that most of these sites are assuming that Micro will either work out the issues before Kinect launches or they simply don't know about it.
Seriously they can't just be ignoring, after 4 years of calling out the Wii on shit that is far less negaitve then these new reveals and not to do so on Natal is fucking ludicrous and I hope that they have more integrity then that.
Metalmurphy
Member
longdi said:
Out the window when they got free Slims.
Can't MS get in trouble for all the misleading ads? People sitting down, more the 2 players playing etc?
Guess they haven't played them on TV yet right?
Metalmurphy
Member
TruePrime said:
Considering they are all sitting down and one guy does the "press button" action for the game how don't see how it can be perceived that way.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21977526&postcount=42
Alx
Member
Metalmurphy said:
For the moment, there's no ad and there's no commercialized product.
When kinect reaches the market, if some of its features are not available, the ads will probably be changed to match what it does...
For now, all non live videos should be considerd with this disclaimer :
JimiNutz
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
The only difference is that the PSP Go was targeted at us. It was supposed to be a premium version of a handheld primarily aimed at 18-30 year old males. We were supposed to be the ones buying it.
Kinect is not aimed at us at all.
We are clearly NOT the people that MS is trying to target here.
We see laggy hardware and shovelware software, target demographic sees 'finally no overly complicated controller!' and 'aaaawww look at that cute tiger game!'
Metalmurphy said:
Okay but that is a preview from 2009 and it we know it doesn't work that way, but the thing is if you look back at what we saw from E310 they skated around these very things, no doubt because of the problems.
Go look at the trailers nothing ever shows someone directly playing one of the games while sitting on the couch or more then 2 playing at the same time.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
From what I gather from these arguments, Kinect is aimed solely at people who don't know what it actually does.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Okay, you guys run with your theory that success can be predicted based on going with the opposite of GAF's reaction, and I'll stay here in not-fucking-crazy-town and judge products on a case-by-case basis, okay?NutJobJim said:
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Graphics Horse said:
It's all very confusing, taking the wait-and-see approach seems to be the most reasonable thing to do at the moment. Either Microsoft will address the issues at their next big public presentation (Gamescom?) or we'll see for ourselves once the device is released.
JimiNutz
Banned
Ignis Fatuus said:
Maybe youre being sarcastic, but Id agree that this is actually true
Maybe I'm being condescending, but I know plenty of people that get caught up in the gimmick, get sucked in by the advertising, and then buy something without even bothering to find out many of the finer technical aspects.
My ex gf wanted that Just Dance game.
I tried to explain to her that it wasn't actually dancing, that you just wave a remote around, and that it had poor song selection etc. (I did my research :lol)
She simply didn't care, and in the end I gave up trying to convince her otherwise...
So she gets caught up in the hype, buys the game, loves in for a weekend and then never plays it again...
Same thing as Wii. She played Wii sports in a shop, got caught up in the media hype, asked for one for her birthday, and it now sits in her brothers bedroom.
Now and then she'll buy a game, (she owns Wii Play, Wii Fit, Just Dance, and was given the console in its first year). I think in the yaer that I was with her she played her Wii maybe 2 or 3 times.
There are lots of people like this, which is why a good advertising/marketing campaign is just as important, if not MORE important, than the actual product itself.
Segata Sanshiro said:
You really can't see that there are some people that will eat this shit up?
Honestly if you'd told me 10 years ago that pet sims, brain training, and danicing games would have taken off, I'd have laughed in your face...
I'm not sure if Kinect is going to be a huge success overnight, but with the right marketing it certainly has potential.
That much they can still fix in a short time, recognising the push-button motion I mean. Whether it'll be the developers of the game or Microsoft themselves doing that, I don't know, but anything the PSEye can do, Kinect can do it as well, possibly with as much development effort. Four player full-body tracking games, probably not; half-body tracking, possibly: I bet they're working on that, who knows if they'll succeed.Metalmurphy said:
EDIT:
For this strategy to work with Kinect, it must be sold at a profit from the start, and even then it won't last as long as the Wii, being an accessory and all. With the bundles it could be used as a system seller, but still won't help Kinect last any longer, as developers will still have to make games basically from the ground up for it, unless Microsoft helps. Ultimately it's down to how much MS is willing to pour on Kinect, not only in the marketing department.NutJobJim said:
NutJobJim said:
The big difference for alot of people here is that first weekend she had it, and the fact that alot of people stayed in love with the Wii alot longer then just a weekend and was able to spread that love.
The fear here I think is if Micro can't fix this (and assuming it is the CPU that is the problem for 4 players, they can't.) It won't even get that one weekend because as soon as people turn it on and they take there first break and try to do anything with it the thing will fuck up because it can't respond to you when you are sitting down, or they can't play with their whole family because it only supports two people.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I'm not making a prediction one way or the other yet, because we don't even know the price, which is going to be the most important factor by far.NutJobJim said:
What I am arguing against is that just because hardcore gamers dislike something it guarantees success, which is what the knucklehead I quoted suggested.
JimiNutz
Banned
TruePrime said:
That is a valid point, but honestly I'm not sure if only 2 players, and no stand up, is that big of a deal for the people that it's targeting.
I understand that families want to pay together, but they still can...
Mum and Dad play, then the kids get up and play while the parents watch and laugh.
My ex only had 2 Wii motes, yet all four of us (me, her, her brother, her Mum) used to play Wii Play or Wii Sports. We'd just take it in turns, and it was still fun.
As for the sitting thing, the games that are aimed at these people (animal games, mini games, sports games, dancing games) are played standing up anyway...
The menu navigation thing is a bit of a fuck up though, they need to certainly fix that.
NutJobJim said:
Yes but there is a big difference there, one you just hand someone a remote it takes all of a couple seconds and then everyone is having a good time again. Natal has to recalibrate and rescan someone, how quick is that going to be? Is it even going to have prompts for that kinda thing in between rounds of something like a turn in Mario Party?
Not being able to sit down when using Kinect's motion-tracking features isn't (much of) a problem if the games pushing the hardware, such as Dance Central, all require the player to stand up.
Not having more than two players playing at a time is a problem when the most similar games available on other platforms, such as Just Dance, feature up to four players playing at a time.
(Yes, Just Dance 2 brags of up to eight players "playing" at a time, but I'll believe that when I see it.)
Not having more than two players playing at a time is a problem when the most similar games available on other platforms, such as Just Dance, feature up to four players playing at a time.
(Yes, Just Dance 2 brags of up to eight players "playing" at a time, but I'll believe that when I see it.)
InaudibleWhispa
Member
There are quite a number of video demonstrations of "jump-in, jump-out" gameplay with Kinect. Once someone stands in front of Kinect, I'd say it takes about 2 seconds before they're playing, at most. I actually think it's an advantage with Kinect. The Wii with motion plus needs to be recalibrated quite a bit ("Please put on a flat surface"), and so far Move looks to be the same. With Wii fit each game has to be calibrated for every persons individual weight.TruePrime said:
An idosyncratic product with various 'gotchas' pertaining to its use could really miss the mark with the very market it claims to be targetting.
The hardcore will more quickly tolerate and work around technological deficiencies than the 'casuals' who'll simply return Kinect and say that it doesn't work.
That's if they bother to fork out money for an XBox360 AND Kinect in the first place.
Wii was successful so this will be is simply not a good argument.
My suspicion is that most non-traditional gamers who were introduced to Wii were introduced by hardcore gamers who owned one.
Kinect, by it's very nature as a peripheral with very little hardcore potential will find this route hard to tap into IMO.
I can't even bother to elaborate all the other reasons why I don't see Kinect making waves because that'll take too much typing right now.
The hardcore will more quickly tolerate and work around technological deficiencies than the 'casuals' who'll simply return Kinect and say that it doesn't work.
That's if they bother to fork out money for an XBox360 AND Kinect in the first place.
Wii was successful so this will be is simply not a good argument.
My suspicion is that most non-traditional gamers who were introduced to Wii were introduced by hardcore gamers who owned one.
Kinect, by it's very nature as a peripheral with very little hardcore potential will find this route hard to tap into IMO.
I can't even bother to elaborate all the other reasons why I don't see Kinect making waves because that'll take too much typing right now.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
NYR said:
No, you really can't. Whereas the things wrong with Wii are barriers to hardcore players only, the things wrong with Kinect are barriers to casual word of mouth AND hardcore players.
Diffense said:
Definitely. Not the same topic of course, but I had someone return a blu-ray player to where I work the other day, saying it didn't work, and it was no improvement to their DVD player.
'Have you got an HDMI cable?'
'No, why would I need one?'
Turns out they had been using composite cables. And no matter how much I tried to reccomend buying a £9.99 HDMI cable, they insisted the technology didn't work, it was a rip off, and that they wanted a full refund. I get stuff like this happening all the time, with various games related accessories and consoles too. What was especially stupid, was that they were offered the HDMI cable in the first place when they brought the player, and they insisted they didn't need it.
I, for one, am dreading the amount of hassle I'll have to put up with when Kinect is released.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
It comes with it, the connection wire pretty much has an adapter to use for either.Shanadeus said: