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[KernelPanic]

Move, on the other hand, seems like it will appear to pre-existing customers. There's just not enough focus software-wise on the mainstream audience.

I'd say they're leaving that largely to the 3rd parties, why else feature Dead Space Extraction ?

Might as well as hang out a sign "Now accepting Wii Ports"

 

[lowlylowlycook]

Heh MS would probably revel in showing the benefits of being able to play a dance game hands free vs. holding the Move controller(s).

I don't doubt that the Kinect version would be superior, but would it be superior enough to justify the shortcomings that Kinect has in practically every other genre of game?

 

[Nafai1123]

This thread seems to have got to the point where only the most extreme people on each side of the fence are left arguing about it. Not that I can figure out exactly whats being argued at the moment. :lol

Yea I came into this thread expecting a rational discussion about the price, not fanboy bickering about which controller is better.

Personally, I think Sony is positioning themselves into a better position to sell to their current audience, while MS is positioning themselves into selling to a new audience (depending on the price of the bundle), in which case the $150 stand alone kinect price doesn't really give us any idea about how well it will end up selling. Once the bundle prices are officially announced we will have a better idea about how well kinect will be able to compete with the wii.

I think that not even trying to cater to a core audience is going to hurt kinect sales initially. People are much more likely to buy a $99/$150 peripheral for their current system rather than a $300/$400 new system. If kinect isn't meant for the current 360 audience then it's going to be tough to sell hardware and software at launch. Maybe if/when positive word of mouth spreads we will see bundles begin to sell well, but until that happens I think kinect sales could be pretty dismal.

 

[KamenSenshi]

Right now this seems to be about $50 overpriced for what I've seen. So far it seems to work best as ddr vers2 or maybe a fitness helper like ea active. I would like to see them package it withsome game maybe the Adventures or something, just so that it appears to have a better valuefor the money. That is, if they really are aiming to get a different consumer interested.

 

[pr0cs]

that show with the I Carly girl,it shows heavy lag,and showed how the avatar was moving even when she wasn't.

you weren't watching very closely then. She was jumping VERY late, as usual she seemed absolutely clueless on what the hell was going on in the first place.
it was working fine for Kudo, but then he knew how to play. (and wasn't a little slow like his gaming partner)

 

[Vinci]

I'd say they're leaving that largely to the 3rd parties, why else feature Dead Space Extraction ?

Might as well as hang out a sign "Now accepting Wii Ports"

You mean the 3rd parties that have failed spectacularly to appeal to the mainstream audience? Sony isn't that stupid.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

You mean the 3rd parties that have failed spectacularly to appeal to the mainstream audience? Sony isn't that stupid.

They have said that they frown on them but haven't gone all out to say they won't allow Wii ports.

 

[yurinka]

How is that “Sixaxis” thing working out for the “hardcore” games? Oh, that’s right…no one remembers Sixaxis…or wants to…especially Sony apparently… No one with a PS3 boycotted Killzone 2 or Resident Evil 5 because there was no waggle. The big selling point for Move? Being able to play traditionally hardcore games like Killzone 3, SOCOM and retro-fitted Resident Evil 5. Exactly what the PS3 (and 360) were already excelling at.

Sony cannot even convince people on a hardcore gaming forum that Move is not a black Wii for HD. Welcome to 2006. The only people worked up about Move are the console warriors who were impressed with text chat rooms last year. Even those folks were not demanding more Sixaxis support. And now waggle is the next great thing? The Move does not add anything to an already great experience. In effect Sony is preaching to the choir—their geeked-up army of Kevin Butlers.

At launch, games like Lair or Motorstorm (pre patch) demonstrated Sixaxis was a shit to use it for certain things.

But Killzone, Uncharted, Mirror's Edge or Heavenly Sword had good examples of Sixaxis usage in hardcore games.

In these titles, Sixaxis has been used for secondary actions like to throw grenades, place bombs, etc. As it made sense, because for main actions the typical pad buttons/analog controls were more precise and faster, as needed in these genres. BTW I see potential for similar usage with Kinect in hardcore titles (main actions with pad, secondary with motion).

There are some other hardcore games like Starhawk, Motorstorm (post patch) or Wipeout HD where can be used optionally as main control, and it worked well, but I prefer to use traditional controls in these games.

Right now I also remember Flower, that even it's casual, I (a hardcore gamer) love it. It is controlled just with Sixaxis and a button, and the control is one of the cool/charming features of the game.

Seeing the Wii, we the Sony fanboys know certain hardcore genres work better with a Wiimote-like control style (mainly first person / third person shooters). So as hardcore gamers I think it makes sense we look forward to use Move in games where it makes sense, like Killzone or Resident Evil. Obviously we don't want it in Street Fighter, and we aren't interested in most of the casual shovelware waggle stuff.

And since Move implies you're using the camera+mics, there are another extra cool features that have potential to improve the games, like headtracking, augmented reality of the Minority Report stuff demo, etc.

Many of us on here who have 360s and PS3s will end up with both Kinect and Move. Eventually. That’s who we are. But how does Sony sell Move and a PS3 to a non-hardcore person, like a soccer mom or someone not already persuaded of PS3’s value right now? How do they explain that it’s different than the Wii likely already in their living room? “Oh look, a black Wii with a ball on top, isn’t that cute. It looks like my ‘shower massager.’” Try telling a soccer mom that a two-person Move setup will require 4 “wands” ($50 each), 2 nunchuks ($30 each), and a camera ($20), or some confusing combination of the bunch. That’s six controllers added to the living room, likely scattered on her precious living room floor. That’s six controllers to charge so add a powered USB hub and USB cables on top of that mess. And then explain it’s like a Wii but with serious hardcore games in HD. It’s like a Wii but with better Z-axis tracking. It’s like a Wii but with better gyroscopes. It’s like a Wii but… It’s like a Wii but… But, but, but…. Fuuuuuuuck…. Then tell them the Move is “hardcore,” most games will not actually require Move, and they can “design their own levels” in Little Big Planet 2. Good luck with that.

Sony succeded previously with the casual market mainly in Europe, specially with titles that needed extra accesories like Eyetoy (wikipedia says 10 millions as of 2008), Singstar (wikipedia says almost 18 million) or Buzz. Invizimals was the 3rd best selling PSP game in Europe in 2009. They bundled them with the accesories needed to make it easier to know what you need, so I doubt they fail selling this software and accesories.

And when selling them the console, we know they also appeal this market with non-gaming extra added value, specially with the movies stuff like when putting DVD in PS2, or BlueRay+HD+3D+digital store to rent movies in PS3.

About the various control configurations, I think it won't be a problem because:
-In the Wii side, they also need buy extra nunchakus, wiimotes, wiimotion pluses and even batteries. And it worked.
-Sony always bundled their casual games with the accesories needed even for multiplayer. And it worked.
-Even I think it will be better to use the Navi, you don't need to purchase it because you can use instead a DS3.
-The casual Move games doesn't use the Navi, and use only 1 Move for each player. From the announced games, only Sports Champion uses 2 Moves for player in the archery, but it is optional, you can play using just one. And I think it is turn based, so you even can play it in multiplayer using 2 Moves without needing to buy 4 Moves.

The sales pitch with Kinect? It sells itself. It’s the Wii/Move hand waggles vs. Microsoft’s full-body convulsions. The avatar on the screen jumps when you jump. Swing your arms and legs around and the avatar dances. Reach out and pet a tiger with your open hand. That’s it. Just put a camera in front of the TV and things happen. Magic. Will it be good for anything beyond dancing, rhythm and exercise games? Who knows…but it will be damn good at each of those.

It sounds just like the Move/Eye Pet ads. Move and Kinect ads are clearly inspired in Wii ads. I can't see the difference.

 

[Vinci]

They have said that they frown on them but haven't gone all out to say they won't allow Wii ports.

They shouldn't ban Wii ports. But again, nothing about this policy or perspective shows that they're depending on 3rd parties to deliver the mainstream audience. The 3rd parties haven't been able to garner the attention of the mainstream audience this gen; in fact, they've failed massively at it.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Dead Space Extraction ?

Might as well as hang out a sign "Now accepting Wii Ports"

:lol

 

[KernelPanic]

You mean the 3rd parties that have failed spectacularly to appeal to the mainstream audience? Sony isn't that stupid.

Still it's more software for the platform and it gets them stuff like EA Sports Active (2).

It's Wii HD + 3D.

Kinect is a different approach but same goal.

 

[squatingyeti]

Lets start with that bold par.

First all what i have read from move is not bad at all,in fact some articles already claim is not a HD wii,they have been posted on this very forum,so i don't know how you miss them,but i wonder why would sony have a much harder time trying to catch those Wii fans,with something similar to the Wii,than MS will with something already sony proved it doesn't work,try to put it as pretty as you want,Kinect is just an evolve version of the PS3 eye or another case and Eye Toy,something sony could not make succeed even when they owned the damn market,and they unlike MS did not had 40 million units install base when the console was almost 5 years old,they had like 80+ millions and tons of casuals.

So pardon me if i don't see the theory of sony doing bad with Move, for something that is supper hot on the other console which is the market leader now,to believe that Kinect would probably succeed with something sony has use for the last 2 gens and hasn't been able to make it fly,even more when almost all that it has been show are mini games exactly what sony did with the Eye Toy.


How can sony convince soccer mom i don't really have an answer for that completely,but if soccer mom wasn't worry about spending $99 dollar for a single game on Wii with a balance board,and spending $80 dollars for a complete 3 piece set controller,i don't see her putting to much worry on that move price.

But is funny you even bring a point of controller been trow every where on the floor,dude that is weak and pathetic,soccer mom should keep her house clean,hell how that doesn't apply to the Wii i would love to hear your answer,since the wii has 2 separate controller that can cause as much mess,oh yeah even more since those 2 to work need a cable to link them,while move link with the sub controller without wires.

I love how price argument apply to move but not to the Wii $80 controller and a $100 dollar balance board that is barely support,even more i love the whole mess on the floor argument,when the wii controllers need cables to be link,while move doesn't.

Also i don't think soccer mom will have to much difficulty seeing how different the tech are,once they see them running,the Eye Pet alone can make that work much easy.


And to address that last bold part.

That is the point you jump Kinect lags first then your avatar jump,you move kinect lags first again them move,you don't move and Kinect just move on his own,haven't you see what has been demo already,that show with the I Carly girl,it shows heavy lag,and showed how the avatar was moving even when she wasn't.

Maybe should look at it this way,casual don't know the difference between Kinect and the PS3 Eye,for many of the the PS3 will appear to have something like Kinect and something like the wii,where ever you like to admit it or not,most casual would probably now recognize the different between Kinect and the PS3 eye.

Let's start with...FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[TheOddOne]

Actually what you are doing is trying to downplay my arguments using stupid ass comments,let me help you.


Are you in the future?)

What the hell ^^ does that mean,why should i.? iI just stated that he was jumping the ship as much as i was.


Your argument is mute, because Wii owners have the same option)


I can play any Move game without the sub controller,can you play Mario Galaxy without a nun chuck.? Can you play Wii sport resort without motion plus.?


(Read my comment above)

You can play all the games with a core 360,you can't play all wii games without a Nun chuck.


BEHAHHAHAHAHAH

I was making fun of him so sad you did not get it,maybe because you are taking this to serious.


(Only broken valid argument)

And even on this you had to add something bad about it,which only proves that even when you know some one is completely right it takes allot of work for you to let it go and admit some one is right.

Man, its difficult to reply to somebody that can barely make a decent sentence :lol

 

[phisheep]

The sales pitch with Kinect? It sells itself. It’s the Wii/Move hand waggles vs. Microsoft’s full-body convulsions. The avatar on the screen jumps when you jump. Swing your arms and legs around and the avatar dances. Reach out and pet a tiger with your open hand. That’s it. Just put a camera in front of the TV and things happen. Magic. Will it be good for anything beyond dancing, rhythm and exercise games? Who knows…but it will be damn good at each of those.

It does seem kind of limited to things you can personally do within your physical capabilities while being upright.

You just need to imagine how it would handle swimming to realise how limited it is.

 

[Nightz]

Engadget is reporting that there are demo stations for Kinect at the four Microsoft stores. One of them just opened up here in San Diego, so I may have to go there for a visit.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

Interestingly, Microsoft is also reminding folks that they can pre-order Kinect at the Microsoft Store website, but that site now states that "official pricing has not yet been announced," and that "$149.99 is an estimate only and subject to change."

Can we at least change the thread title for now?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Can we at least change the thread title for now?

I say let people go even crazier until the eventual confirmation...that it isn't $150. Maybe even less than $100 at launch, which is my guess. The lower it goes under $100, the more ridiculous many of these posts are going to seem...and there are lots of them in here.

 

[oversensitive]

Can we at least change the thread title for now?

Misinformation is fun.

 

[Crazed Alien]

I, for one, am very happy if Microsoft intends to keep motion controls out of core games. If the PS3 is going to turn into an 'HD Wii' then I'm glad I'm not a PS3 owner. All the core games on Wii like Mario, No More Heroes etc. would be a lot better without any motion control at all. It adds nothing interesting to the experience and only takes control away from the player.

A pointing device is no substitute for a mouse. As soon as you're using something like that for aiming you're compromising either movement or camera control. This is not a step forward in control, it's a step backward. There's a reason light gun games are always on rails.

 

[mckmas8808]

I, for one, am very happy if Microsoft intends to keep motion controls out of core games. If the PS3 is going to turn into an 'HD Wii' then I'm glad I'm not a PS3 owner. All the core games on Wii like Mario, No More Heroes etc. would be a lot better without any motion control at all. It adds nothing interesting to the experience and only takes control away from the player.

A pointing device is no substitute for a mouse. As soon as you're using something like that for aiming you're compromising either movement or camera control. This is not a step forward in control, it's a step backward. There's a reason light gun games are always on rails.

Why would you consider the PS3 will be Wii HD? The controls are options.

 

[Crazed Alien]

If the controls are options that's great. I hope that's the way it turns out but it hasn't been that way with the Wii. I'm just seeing people on here claiming that the Move is superior because it can enhance core games but from my perspective I prefer Microsoft's approach because it's less likely to interfere with core games. If the two can remain separate then I'm happy.

If not I think I'll go back to my PC.

 

[Nafai1123]

I, for one, am very happy if Microsoft intends to keep motion controls out of core games. If the PS3 is going to turn into an 'HD Wii' then I'm glad I'm not a PS3 owner. All the core games on Wii like Mario, No More Heroes etc. would be a lot better without any motion control at all. It adds nothing interesting to the experience and only takes control away from the player.

A pointing device is no substitute for a mouse. As soon as you're using something like that for aiming you're compromising either movement or camera control. This is not a step forward in control, it's a step backward. There's a reason light gun games are always on rails.

Yea options suck!!

 

[Narcosis]

I, for one, am very happy if Microsoft intends to keep motion controls out of core games. If the PS3 is going to turn into an 'HD Wii' then I'm glad I'm not a PS3 owner. All the core games on Wii like Mario, No More Heroes etc. would be a lot better without any motion control at all. It adds nothing interesting to the experience and only takes control away from the player.

A pointing device is no substitute for a mouse. As soon as you're using something like that for aiming you're compromising either movement or camera control. This is not a step forward in control, it's a step backward. There's a reason light gun games are always on rails.

1- I'm pretty sure 99% of all games made for PS3 will have Dualshock control options since that's the controller that's guaranteed to have been included with all 35 million or so PS3 consoles sold so far.

2-Mario Galaxy and NSMB barely make any use of any motion controls except in specific instances

 

[Crazed Alien]

1- I'm pretty sure 99% of all games made for PS3 will have Dualshock control options since that's the controller that's guaranteed to have been included with all 35 million or so PS3 consoles sold so far.

Good point. Something both 360 and PS3 benefit from is having been established as core platforms before introducing these new devices.

2-Mario Galaxy and NSMB barely make any use of any motion controls except in specific instances

Agreed. But I still find it very irritating having to waggle the thing when I could just press a button.

I guess I just don't really understand what everyone's fighting about but then I'm probably on the wrong forum... people should have known what each system was capable of before E3. It's always been pretty obvious that the Move will have a more substantial impact on core games by it's very nature and I don't think Microsoft are trying to compete with that.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Oh, please. If you want every thread to be a circlejerk you're welcome to go elsewhere.

Oh come on, anybody with half a brain knows I didn't mean a fucking circle jerk. But these Kinect threads have absolutely just been horrible with how much stupid trolling is allowed. I don't care if people like it or not, but the actual discussion is getting drowned out with stupidity.

Ninja edit - I cuss too much sometimes ...

 

[freddy]

Oh come on, anybody with half a brain knows I didn't mean a fucking circle jerk. But these Kinect threads have absolutely just been horrible with how much stupid trolling is allowed. I don't care if people like it or not, but the actual discussion is getting drowned out with stupidity.

Ninja edit - I cuss too much sometimes ...

Theres nothing left to discuss really. The price is either wrong or not. You will find out soon enough. This thread is now for mind games and PR reps who couldn't say anything bad about Kinect if they wanted to because the company now has their balls on lockdown.

 

[Dalauz]

where is this from? its a hoax?

 

[jedimike]

Motion controls will never replace regular controls. However, they do give players an experience that haven't had before. Like others have stated, a game like Wii sports would never be successful on a standard controller. Just the same, a game like Punch-Out would suck balls if you were forced to use the motion controls. IMO, very few games have done a great job of integrating tradition controls along with motion controls. I'm skeptical that Sony can pull it off. I like MS's approach better... creating games specifically for the Kinect experience.

Theres nothing left to discuss really. The price is either wrong or not. You will find out soon enough. This thread is now for mind games and PR reps who couldn't say anything bad about Kinect if they wanted to because the company now has their balls on lockdown.

MS has showed Kinect off to hundreds of journalists and media sites at this point. There's no need to put anyone on lockdown.

The price is important and MS needs to be agressive. I think statements from Activision's COO stating concern over price will lead MS to drop it to $99.

 

[Alx]

where is this from? its a hoax?

Always interesting to see the low-level data... I doubt it's a hoax, it looks legit. And actually not so bad, considering the person on the left returns incomplete data. I think it was explained on a TV show (where this sequence was probably taken) that the red target is the player, and the green is considered as bystanders. And it's very likely that the green man has a simpler tracking than the red one (see how even "easy" points like feet and knee are less stable than on the player).
The real bad part is when the head (red dot) got lost somewhere on the chest, but with a good tracking and physical constraints, it shouldn't happen.

 

[Mael]

Agreed. But I still find it very irritating having to waggle the thing when I could just press a button.

I guess I just don't really understand what everyone's fighting about but then I'm probably on the wrong forum... people should have known what each system was capable of before E3. It's always been pretty obvious that the Move will have a more substantial impact on core games by it's very nature and I don't think Microsoft are trying to compete with that.

You can't possibly be that stupid, especially considering nsmbw! That game's use of waggling is actually what make the game soooooooooooooo much better than it's ds counterpart.
It's like complaining that you hate the game because the foes now dance in rythm to the music.
Just look at the expert vids and you'll understand why the game would be a much lesser one without the waggling.

can comeone refresh my memory on how Uncharted use the sixaxis anyway? I remember its sucky use in KZ2 but can't remember for U2

 

[OldJadedGamer]

1- I'm pretty sure 99% of all games made for PS3 will have Dualshock control options since that's the controller that's guaranteed to have been included with all 35 million or so PS3 consoles sold so far.

The Dualshock hasn't been included in all those PS3's. The first time a DS was packed in with a PS3 console was June 12, 2008. The day MGS4 launched.

 

[Mael]

The Dualshock hasn't been included in all those PS3's. The first time a DS was packed in with a PS3 console was June 12, 2008. The day MGS4 launched.

Even then the only difference is the rumble the could finally calibrate :lol
Ah Sony and their phoney excuses

 

[gofreak]

Always interesting to see the low-level data... I doubt it's a hoax, it looks legit. And actually not so bad, considering the person on the left returns incomplete data. I think it was explained on a TV show (where this sequence was probably taken) that the red target is the player, and the green is considered as bystanders. And it's very likely that the green man has a simpler tracking than the red one (see how even "easy" points like feet and knee are less stable than on the player).
The real bad part is when the head (red dot) got lost somewhere on the chest, but with a good tracking and physical constraints, it shouldn't happen.

He looks like he's a 'first class citizen' as far as tracking goes - a second player certainly should be. The difference is he's slightly turned away and I guess that makes it harder for the classifier, hence the jitter and uncertainty about where to put joints.

 

[Solid warrior]

where is this from? its a hoax?

It looks more advanced than i thought.

note to self:
- a big dot on his wrist. (wrist movement anyone?)
- ability for the scanner to tell depth. It actually moves inside the kinect without moving the base.
- It's super detailed that's how kudo described it when he went closer to the camera, it even tracked his sunglasses.
- erection tracking. a possibility? :/

 

[seb]

Always interesting to see the low-level data... I doubt it's a hoax, it looks legit. And actually not so bad, considering the person on the left returns incomplete data. I think it was explained on a TV show (where this sequence was probably taken) that the red target is the player, and the green is considered as bystanders. And it's very likely that the green man has a simpler tracking than the red one (see how even "easy" points like feet and knee are less stable than on the player).
The real bad part is when the head (red dot) got lost somewhere on the chest, but with a good tracking and physical constraints, it shouldn't happen.

If this is real, I don't understand how it can fail so badly :/
Given that this is meant to track human bodies, how hard can it be to apply basic joint constraints to the skeleton ?

 

[noah111]

It looks more advanced than i thought.

Really? I thought all this was relatively well know. It can sense depth and try to detect joint structures (though not always too successful, like the waist being detected at the lung area).

I think this will ultimately be the next generation (integrated with controllers for certain experiences of course), and hopefully by then costs will have gone far down..

 

[Mandoric]

Motion controls will never replace regular controls. However, they do give players an experience that haven't had before. Like others have stated, a game like Wii sports would never be successful on a standard controller. Just the same, a game like Punch-Out would suck balls if you were forced to use the motion controls. IMO, very few games have done a great job of integrating tradition controls along with motion controls. I'm skeptical that Sony can pull it off. I like MS's approach better... creating games specifically for the Kinect experience.

Punch-Out's actually pretty fun in motion, though Konami's arcade boxing game on Kinect lines was funner.

That said, I don't think the issue here is whether motion and traditional controls can be fully integrated well in one game; you're right, they usually can't.
The thing is that there are a lot of games where just one thing from the other side is wonderfully useful.
Pointing rather than wrestling with the right analog stick for FPS/TPS.
Tilt left/right for platformers, on the Wiimote with no l/r buttons.
A quick shake as an extra button that's convenient to press in any combo.
Punch-Out could easily handle dodging and blocking with a camera, or even like Wii Boxing, but star punches need a button unless they expect you to kiai and kiais and boxing don't mix.
Hell, a pause button.
Kinect probably won't see a Police 911 port, which could be the poster child for adapting the tech to the most popular genre in the US, because it requires a single button. The amount of PR focus given to 'controllerless' certainly suggests that motion games with a controller feature or two aren't going to be as welcome as controller games with a motion feature or two.

It's certainly nice to show off your new control method and put out some high-profile first-party titles. I think my unease comes mostly from the fact that Kinect-branded titles are all camera only, even third-party. Add that to the difficulty even a lot of the demo reel lineup had with showing off Kinect's unique capabilities (Kinectimals did pretty well, Adventures not so much) and you run a serious risk of being 'the only one that can't' rather than 'the only one that can'.

 

[Alx]

He looks like he's a 'first class citizen' as far as tracking goes - a second player certainly should be. The difference is he's slightly turned away and I guess that makes it harder for the classifier, hence the jitter and uncertainty about where to put joints.

I still don't know what to think of that info about classifiers... I can't see how (or why) they would use classifiers to estimate a pose, which is something continuous in nature. I would guess that what we know about the learning methods they used is intended to key gestures recognition, or to detect a given scenario. But when it's about having a direct control of an avatar, I'm not sure classifiers are really used.

 

[the nightman cometh]

I feel like this was a calculated move by Microsoft of allowing people to think that it will be coming out for $150. I think that they know that this is the highest price they would sell it for and "leaked" it to gauge the reaction to the pricing. Now with that information they can determine if they will have to sell it at a lower price to get an initial install base that will keep publishers happy.

 

[Diablohead]

I feel like this was a calculated move by Microsoft of allowing people to think that it will be coming out for $150. I think that they know that this is the highest price they would sell it for and "leaked" it to gauge the reaction to the pricing. Now with that information they can determine if they will have to sell it at a lower price to get an initial install base that will keep publishers happy.

It's happy thinking but don't be surprised if the camera does release at $150, look at their official memory card and hdd prices, the camera isn't going to become super cheap all of a sudden.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Having just watched GTTV with Don Mattrick, he says "I know the price. I think you're really going to like the price. We sat through the other competitive press briefings and we were very pleased with our position. I like being at Microsoft this holiday”. I can't imagine he'd be that optimistic with a $150 price tag. He must know that nobody is going to "really like" that price.

He also said that they didn't give the price at E3 because they wanted to "get more coverage". "We can have another press release, and I can come and talk to you again". I think they're planning an announcement at Gamescom (Microsoft - "We will have a much bigger and more spectacular appearance at gamescom this year than we did last year"), and it's going to be cheaper than people are expecting. $99, I think.

 

[Zabka]

If this is real, I don't understand how it can fail so badly :/
Given that this is meant to track human bodies, how hard can it be to apply basic joint constraints to the skeleton ?

I made that gif from the demonstration on the Engadget show. The green skeleton was freaking out because the guy was wearing a loose fitting, pitch black dress shirt.

I don't think it was just the color that was an issue, because it picks up his black pants perfectly. We've also seen plenty of examples of people wearing black and the system works just fine.

Probably a combination of color and material screwed it up.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I made that gif from the demonstration on the Engadget show. The green skeleton was freaking out because the guy was wearing a loose fitting, pitch black dress shirt.

I don't think it was just the color that was an issue, because it picks up his black pants perfectly. We've also seen plenty of examples of people wearing black and the system works just fine.

Probably a combination of color and material screwed it up.

I think it was more position. I'm pretty sure if two people are playing together they'd need to stand next to each other.

 

[Alx]

He also said that they didn't give the price at E3 because they wanted to "get more coverage". "We can have another press release, and I can come and talk to you again". I think they're planning an announcement at Gamescom (Microsoft - "We will have a much bigger and more spectacular appearance at gamescom this year than we did last year"), and it's going to be cheaper than people are expecting. $99, I think.

Considering that Move is released one month earlier, I had this theory that maybe they would try to steal a bit of attention by announcing the final price after the Move launch. This way, some customers could wait for all the official prices to take a decision (even if Move & Kinect are very different products).

 

[Zabka]

We had this discussion in the Engadget thread. They are both within the range of the system with the Kinect pointing right at them.

From slightly earlier in the show:

 

[Diablohead]

The gif and that image above make me think that the camera might not be that smooth, like the wiimote on a sunny day it can interfere and make the cursor jump all over the place.

The tech needs a better resolution maybe, but that would jack up the price even more :/

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

We had this discussion in the Engadget thread. They are both within the range of the system with the Kinect pointing right at them.

From slightly earlier in the show:

The difference between where the black shirted guy was in that picture versus the previous gif is pretty substantial, IIRC.

 

[Zabka]

He's a foot to the side in the gif. And I'm not sure if you even looked at the screen in the picture, but it is showing the same problem with his upper body not being detected properly.

@ the spazing out on the green guy. his arms are doing nothing the rig is. And look at the inverted elbow on the red guy in the last picture.

Green guy in the gif and the red guy in the pic are the same person, just fyi.

 

[Bad_Boy]

where is this from? its a hoax?

:lol @ the spazing out on the green guy. his arms are doing nothing the rig is. And look at the inverted elbow on the red guy in the last picture.

 

[Raist]

It looks more advanced than i thought.

note to self:
- a big dot on his wrist. (wrist movement anyone?)

Nah, it's just a reference point for a simple skeleton of the player. So if you bend your hand, the system can tell because the hand/wrist/elbow reference points aren't aligned anymore for instance. It doesn't mean that every single movement or rotation of the big dots can be independently detected.

Interesting to see that it now tracks 20ish points only (as opposed to the 38 they were originally touting, which was equivalebt to 3DV's ZCam). It's exactly like the tech specs from primesense's cam.