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Kong: Skull Island Director Takes on Cinema Sins

R

RuinerPrime

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
I'm taking it about as seriously as a forum discussion about stupid YouTube videos can be taken seriously, I guess?

Considering you're wasting your time talking about it too I don't get this weird notion that you're somehow doing this right by comparison.

I'm not the one openly suggesting people giving a shit about things is somehow an inherent mistake

While simultaneously caring enough (i.e. giving a shit) to join the conversation anyway.
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Excuse my earlier shit post. I watch CinemaSins for the entertainment value, it's fine that you don't like it. I get it. I also don't think it's funny most of the time. I do not value his film criticisms in the slightest, I do not come to CinemaSins for film critique, I go to other channels for that. Film is very important to me and I don't go for easy nit picks when I critique films myself...idk I just feel CinemaSins is ultimately harmless and no one should take it seriously when it comes to actual film critique. Including the King Kong director.

The one & only time I took his videos seriously was for The Witch, which he seems to actually hate for whatever reason. I knew I would never get along with this guy irl. (The Witch is very good)
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
raziel said:
2) HT is narrated by Epic Voice Guy; CS is narrated by guy whose voice/delivery is asshole-ish, like Bobby Roberts posts given a voice.
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This is like the third or fourth shitty little personal flick at my earlobes you kids have tried while simultaneously suggesting that you're not supposed to take any of this seriously.

It's not hard to find examples of my speaking voice online, either, if you're that curious. I'd be happy to provide you with examples of me talking just like this with my real life voice.

You're probably not really that curious because it'd probably wreck the variation on "Comic Book Guy" you're hearing in your head right now.

RuinerPrime said:
Excuse my earlier shit post. I watch CinemaSins for the entertainment value, it's fine that you don't like it. I get it. I also don't think it's funny most of the time. I do not value his film criticisms in the slightest, I do not come to CinemaSins for film critique, I go to other channels for that. Film is very important to me and I don't go for easy nit picks when I critique films myself...idk I just feel CinemaSins is ultimately harmless and no one should take it seriously when it comes to actual film critique. Including the King Kong director.

The one & only time I took his videos seriously was for The Witch, which he seems to actually hate for whatever reason. I knew I would never get along with this guy. (The Witch is very good)
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That's pretty cool of you, and thanks for that. It's appreciated. Both the mea culpa AND the explanation following.
 
S

Seductivpancakes

Member
bernardobri said:
If you take Cinema Sins' criticism as constructive or serious, either as a creator or a spectator. I wouldn't be surprised if you take The Onion as anything but satire/comedy as well.
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Yea because you can't criticize anything involving comedy or satire. They have free reign to be as shit as they want.
 
B

border

Member
Just watch the Cinema Sins for the movies you don't like. Problem solved.

I kinda get a kick out of watching them clown on movies, even if I know it's often wrong and intellectually dishonest. Which is precisely why I don't watch the videos they make for movies I love, since I know I'll just be annoyed and nitpicky about them.

CinemaSins isn't above critique. But at the same time, to say that they're lowering the level of film criticism is sort of like saying that AngryJoe is lowering the level of game criticism.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
Guys I heard we were putting Bobby in a bully circle and I just wanted to jump in PS Kong: Skull Island is Best Picture 2017 WHOO
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Stallion Dan said:
Watch the EWW CS video to see why this post misses the point.
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Read my posts to see why this post misses the point.

That they made a video pointing out a handful of errors is not relevant to the fact that they also withhold information and context to gives sins to movies often. Does EWW CS point out that they're dishonest editors?
 
C

caliph95

Member
border said:
Just watch the Cinema Sins for the movies you don't like. Problem solved.

I kinda get a kick out of watching them clown on movies, even if I know it's often wrong and intellectually dishonest. Which is precisely why I don't watch the videos they make for movies I love, since I know I'll just be annoyed and nitpicky about them.

CinemaSins isn't above critique. But at the same time, to say that they're lowering the level of film criticism is sort of like saying that AngryJoe is lowering the level of game criticism.
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Eh Angryjoe regardless of his name or what you think of him is not nearly as nitpicky and tries to be fair to the games he reviews even if I think he can be fun of himself
 
P

Prince of Space

Banned
raziel said:
1) HT is short; CS is long.

2) HT is narrated by Epic Voice Guy; CS is narrated by guy whose voice/delivery is asshole-ish, like Bobby Roberts posts given a voice.

3) HT is "nice"; CS is "mean spirited" i.e. not enough "wink wink but I really like it/it's really good!" assurances for the audience.

4) HT liked The Winter Soldier; CS didn't like The Winter Soldier (or not as much).
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About as insightful as the average Cinema Sin video.

*ding*
 
S

Seductivpancakes

Member
I think people are legit not realizing some of his videos containing actual film criticism are the same "sins" he brings up in his "comedy/satire" videos.
 
V

Vice

Member
Seductivpancakes said:
I think people are legit not realizing some of his videos containing actual film criticism are the same "sins" he brings up in his "comedy/satire" videos.
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There's also the thing about comedy often containing the opinion of the person who created it. It can be meant as a joke and also be what the narrator/writer believes. The two aren't independent.
 
S

Seductivpancakes

Member
Vice said:
There's also the thing about comedy often containing the opinion of the person who created it. It can be meant as a joke and also be what the narrator/writer believes. The two aren't independent.
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That's not enough to convince people that his "jokes" and "satire" videos aren't above criticism.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
This is like the third or fourth shitty little personal flick at my earlobes you kids have tried while simultaneously suggesting that you're not supposed to take any of this seriously.

It's not hard to find examples of my speaking voice online, either, if you're that curious. I'd be happy to provide you with examples of me talking just like this with my real life voice.

You're probably not really that curious because it'd probably wreck the variation on "Comic Book Guy" you're hearing in your head right now.



That's pretty cool of you, and thanks for that. It's appreciated. Both the mea culpa AND the explanation following.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should reflect on why people think you come off as an ass. (Calling people "kids" and resorting to personal comments yourself might be part of it.) The only one getting really riled up in this thread is you, given that you have by far the most posts in it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
A

AoM

Member
yuoke said:
They don't shit over every movie. They have sinned literally tons of movies that jeremy loves. It's meant to be fun nitpicks because nitpicking is fun to a lot of people.
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I really like nitpicks, but I'd say they're no longer nitpicks if they're clearly wrong. And then he includes such "nitpicks" as:

Nerdkiller said:
DHSYoCKUAAAlg9E.jpg
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B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Fuchsdh said:
Maybe you should reflect on why people think you come off as an ass. (Calling people "kids" and resorting to personal comments yourself might be part of it.) The only one getting really riled up in this thread is you, given that you have by far the most posts in it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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1) I know why people think I come off like an ass. I'm not confused or mystified by it. It's not a fuckin' secret or whatever. I don't even know why you're suggesting I should reflect on something that's blatantly obvious to anyone with a sense of perspective who might be watching.

2) I'm not getting riled up in this thread at all, and the post count doesn't really prove anything beyond the notion that if you talk to me, I will talk back to you, because that's usually how conversations work.

3) The idea that "kids" is somehow a personal insult (I'm old, Fuchs. I'm an old person. It's as much a comment on me and your perception of me as some sort of cranky comic book guy - which by the way, is a personal insult based on nothing other than you just don't like me) doesn't fly. You are younger than me. A lot of people here are younger than me. Hence: "Kids"

(for a thread about people enjoying shitty, lame jokes you'd think I wouldn't need to fuckin' autopsy that one)

Again: don't try to come at me like I'm somehow doing this wrong when you guys resort to counting my posts as some sort of rebuttal.
 
cr0w

cr0w

Old Member
I'm older than you are, Bobby.

For those who aren't yet ancient, "kids" is almost a reflexive way to refer to everyone once you reach a certain age. It's almost a term of endearment.
 
B

border

Member
caliph95 said:
Eh Angryjoe regardless of his name or what you think of him is not nearly as nitpicky and tries to be fair to the games he reviews even if I think he can be fun of himself
Click to expand...

Bobby Roberts said:
I mean... It's funny you bring that notion up...
Click to expand...

AngryJoe is certainly not as cynical, and way more likely to admit about enjoying certain aspects of even deeply-flawed games. But if he didn't exist, his audience wouldn't be reading EDGE or Killscreen to get more nuanced and thoughtful views. If CinemaSins went bankrupt tomorrow, their audience wouldn't switch to Cahiers Du Cinema. I don't feel like AJ or CS is really constricting the medium of criticism. They're just stupid goofs at the end of the day. They aren't lowering the bar any more than a newspaper critic working for the Des Moines Register.
 
O

old manatee

Banned
I watch more movies than is healthy for any human being and I honestly can't stand stuff like Cinema Sins. There is a difference between criticism and nitpicking creative people into giving up.
 
C

Compbros

Member
border said:
AngryJoe is certainly not as cynical, and way more likely to admit about enjoying certain aspects of even deeply-flawed games. But if he didn't exist, his audience wouldn't be reading EDGE or Killscreen to get more nuanced and thoughtful views. If CinemaSins went bankrupt tomorrow, their audience wouldn't switch to Cahiers Du Cinema. I don't feel like AJ or CS is really constricting the medium of criticism. They're just stupid goofs at the end of the day. They aren't lowering the bar any more than a newspaper critic working for the Des Moines Register.
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Disagree. Joe is posting criticisms or praise of games he's played as video reviews. Bad games can get praise but will get vastly more criticisms while the reverse is true of good games. He points out what he liked, didn't like, and his opinionated score at the end. Whether people hold his opinion in high regard doesn't harm the medium of game reviews because he's pointed out all that he liked and didn't like about it.

CS takes films, regardless of quality, and points out every "bad" thing about them in the form of a sin. I say "bad" because a lot of their things come from either A) not paying enough attention to the film and/or purposely ignoring the film to give it another sin, B) simply not liking how the film framed a scene regardless of the attempt or intent of the scene or C) a joke at the films expense.


If a person were to watch Joe's video and he reviewed a game he thinks is bad they can go "wow, this game looks bad, I'm not gonna buy it". If someone watches a CS video of a movie he thinks is good they will go "wow, this movie looks bad, I'm not gonna watch it". I think CS has the potential to harm how a person views a film whereas I don't think Joe has the potential to harm the way a person plays a game. I don't think they can be lumped into the same "silly goof" type thing. Joe is goofy, CS is harmful.


Edit: A quicker way to do it. Joe's style of review allows you to form your own opinion, CS style forms your opinion for you.
 
S

Stallion Dan

Member
A Link to the Past said:
Read my posts to see why this post misses the point.

That they made a video pointing out a handful of errors is not relevant to the fact that they also withhold information and context to gives sins to movies often. Does EWW CS point out that they're dishonest editors?
Click to expand...

They straight up say the Sin counter is meaningless, so if you get bent out of shape that a Sin is wrong then yeah, you're missing the point and taking the videos seriously.
 
Roronoa Zoro

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
I completely disagree with his stance. I'm one of the most positive film viewers you'll see and I love honest trailers and cinema sins. Also some of my favorite movies have my favorite sins/honest trailers. No movie is perfect and I'm not above pointing out flaws for comedic purposes in even my favorite ones
 
R

RRockman

Banned
I thought it was obvious that the joke was the creators were dumb and the funny comes from how "warped" their tastes are. Didn't they admit all this in their channel trailer? I was also pretty sure they mention they don't use their sins as gospel either.

To me they are just dumb guys having fun and they aren't really worth the time of day. You'd just give them more notoriety that way.
 
T

tryagainlater

Member
I also think Honest Trailers is pretty dumb and I've seen people quote it like they've come up with some enlightening point about a film but at least it seems like they're trying to come up with something that resembles a joke.
 
B

black_13

Banned
I agree with him despite Kong being an ok movie.

CinemaSins is good but if your gonna nitpick every single thing in a movie then you aren't gonna end up enjoying most movies. At least Honest Trailers puts a more comedic aspect into it while trying to rip a movie apart.
 
T

Thatonemoor

Member
My problem with cinema sins is how they have a problem with literally every single opening in cinema. I click off a video before I've actually liked some movies opens that they sinned for being to long.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Aside from the point of Cinema Sins being garbage humor or criticism (their videos are way too long), I've only seen filmmakers engage with Honest Trailers by being on their show and all. Has any filmmaker done that with Cinema Sins aside from critiquing them for not knowing basic film stuff?
 
K

kiguel182

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
Because you're looking at it solely as a thing you can "win." You're even calling it a contest. But it's not a contest.

"I don't know why you share your opinion because someone else has a different one so what's the point" is like... why enter a conversation at all at that point, dude?

Like, what?



He's also criticizing it for being shitty jokes as well as being taken by its viewers as criticism.

Also you don't get to just say "this isn't criticism" when it is. At its core, it's criticizing film. That it's trying to do so humorously isn't really a shield from that basic truth.
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90 per cent of the videos aren't criticism. It's deliberate nitpicking to make people laugh. In the other 10 per cent he might talk about flaws he sees in the movie.

If people take the jokes as actual, legitimate, criticism then well, they shouldn't.

I don't think the core it's criticism but humor by being nitcpicky. And I do think they are pretty self aware about how dumb it is.

Also, you are being a bit aggressive when we are just talking about some dumb YouTube videos.
 
H

hotcyder

Member
A lot of people saying here that Vogt shouldn't take the video seriously and that they're just comedy videos - lot of people referring to the Angry Video Game Nerd for the same reason.

I can understand where he's coming from though - Cinema Sins has an audience of millions per video; because they're short, easy to digest, have humour and - more insidiously - do provide some thoughtful criticism on film, whether it comes from a good or bad place.

It's easy to imagine that there's an entire generation of new film goers who'll watch these videos, won't get the irony and take their word as law. Films could become worse if they have to pander to audiences who want Cinema Sins friendly videos - so you throw editing, writing and ideas out the window to make the same grey goop movies.

It's at best a cynical look at cinema, and at worse utterly xenophonic.
 
K

kiguel182

Member
Thatonemoor said:
My problem with cinema sins is how they have a problem with literally every single opening in cinema. I click off a video before I've actually liked some movies opens that they sinned for being to long.
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He complains about logos most movies. It's supposed to be a recurring joke.

Those are jokes. Maybe bad jokes but still, jokes.
 
I

ItIsOkBro

Member
i would have no problem with someone nitpicking movies, but they're often simply wrong, so wrong that i question if they understood of even watched the movie

lqmeemF.png
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
The One and Done™;246238848 said:
Isn't it just parody
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CinemaSins is a mix of legitimate criticism, nitpicks, and criticism that isn't actually criticism at all. They're well aware of this which is why there's a CinemaSins episode FOR CinemaSins, and even that follows the formula of actual criticism mixed with nonsense. To take a quote from that video

Sins are often based on things you will neither notice nor will ever care to notice.
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There can be something to learn from some of the criticism but don't take the nitpicks to heart. They're not actually condemning your movie because there were 36 purple dots in one scene and then 37 purple dots in another.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Nitpicks are criticism. Its the lowest form of criticism, but its still criticism.

Jokes can also be criticism.

Nitpicky jokes are criticism. Low, shitty, stupid criticism, but still criticism.

Stop saying what they do isn't criticism. It is. Its stupid, shitty, highly viewed terrible criticism that is often pointless. But still criticism.

Stop saying people aren't supposed to take it seriously.

The people making it take it seriously. Their bank account probably takes it seriously. Filmmakers take it seriously enough to complain about it, film fans take it seriously enough to pay attention to its effects on the larger fandom, and you take it seriously enough to come in here and spend time and energy arguing (not enough energy to actually read someone else making your exact same thin and weak defense of CS typically on the same page you're posting to, but still) that people aren't supposed to be taking it seriously.

Its shitty, joke based bad criticism that is taken seriously to some degree by everyone involved.

That's what it is.
 
A

Addi

Member
Michael Fassbender gives the performance of his life, but the glass in front of him had more beer in it than in the last shot *ding*

Not only do I think Cinema Sins is bad, but it's also a symptom of how a lot people today are absolutely incapable of watching and criticising a movie correctly. Pointing out continuity error, "clichés" and "plot holes" (I use quotation marks because half the time they are wrong about that too) is the lowest from of criticism. Yes, it's fair to point some of those things out, but what about aesthetics, themes, metaphors, performances, mis-en-scene, dramaturgy, societal relevance etc. It's part of this crappy roasting/savage internet culture with nothing positiv to bring to the table.
 
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