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Laura Dale: NX battery 3 hours max on dev kit, dock improves performance, touchscreen

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Manoko

Member
I already said this at least 2 times, but let's try it again: tablets (and smartphones for that matter) typically don't run anything which even remotely uses all their hardware to its full capacity. For things like web browsing or watching a video, 95% of the time both GPU and CPU idle.

If you were to run an optimized game making full use of the hardware using a low-overhead software layer on a tablet, it would
  1. Clock down significantly from its maximums almost immediately.
  2. Certainly not achieve anywhere close to the battery life you get in standard tablet tasks like browsing the web or looking at videos.

But that doesn't justify anything:

When people buy an iPad, they plan on doing mostly things that won't be too hard on the hardware, this is the planned use of this device and how it's marketed.
The fact that their battery goes by quickly if you play demanding 3D games is a drawback but not one that "breaks it" on the eye of the consumer, simply because it is not the usual intended use.

The Nintendo Switch primary use is playing these demanding 3D games.
That said, it's a major drawback to the system if its primary use, and what it a marketed and sold for, only achieves 3 hours of battery life.

Comparing iPads and the Switch is irrelevant to me, they are two very different devices aimed at different markets.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
You travel that much and you dont carry a charge pack around for devices?

If this is really an issue for anyone, this makes it a non-issue. I don't understand the complaints from an individual level.

From the perspective of the general public and reviewers, yeah, it's going to suffer. But from a gamer who actually wants to enjoy playing a game on the device for more than 3 hours? That's an incredibly simple task, thanks to cheap battery packs. You can take whatever suits your needs, a small compact pack (the size of a credit card) for 2-3x battery life or a less compact one (the size of the Switch) for 10x the battery life, bringing it to over 24 hours most likely.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Not necessarily since the dev kit could draw more power than the retail unit, for various reasons. Rumors said that (at least some) devkits where using a 20 nm Tegra X1, and the retail unit might have a customized 16 FinFET Tegra X2 for example, which would mean less power draw at the same performance level. It's probably best to keep expectations in check though.

Right, but even that might not save enough to get more than around 4 hours. I'd guess that the target is 2.5-4.5 hours.


And again, it's not called X2
 

Oersted

Member
But that doesn't justify anything:

When people buy an iPad, they plan on doing mostly things that won't be too hard on the hardware, this is the planned use of this device and how it's marketed.
The fact that their battery goes by quickly if you play demanding 3D games is a drawback but not one that "breaks it" on the eye of the consumer, simply because it is not the usual intended use.

The Nintendo Switch primary use is playing these demanding 3D games.
That said, it's a major drawback to the system if its primary use, and what it a marketed and sold for, only achieves 3 hours of battery life.

Comparing iPads and the Switch is irrelevant to me, they are two very different devices aimed at different markets.

We do not know how the Switch will be marketed and sold.

We do not know how long the Switch battery will last.
 
Honestly when it comes to portable gaming devices battery life should be among the top priorities IMO. Hopefully it's just the prototypes, I was hoping for 6 hours.
 

Manoko

Member
We do not know how the Switch will be marketed and sold.

We do not know how long the Switch battery will last.

The trailer heavily implies it is primarily a gaming machine, you don't see anyone browsing the web on it or playing non-demanding games graphically.

Have we watched the same trailer ?
 

deleted

Member
I suspect the extra power in dock mode will only be used to render in a higher resolution than the 720p screen of the tablet. So this correct then it will only work in the dock.

Could be used for higher FPS too - I don't think Nintendo will put a hard lock on what the potential extra power is being used for.
 

Oersted

Member
The trailer implies it is primarily a gaming machine, you don't see anyone browsing the web on it or playing non-demanding games graphically.

Have we watched the same trailer ?


Going out with the dog, on a plane, on a party. That varies from 1 hour to 5.

And we still don't know the battery life.
 
Y'all are getting so bent out of shape over a dev kit rumor. Keep in mind it may not be true.

If it is though, there will have to be a batter extender, so all is not lost. I want to be positive.
 

Ran rp

Member
Could be used for higher FPS too - I don't think Nintendo will put a hard lock on what the potential extra power is being used for.

this is my one major worry, that devs will optimize for the dock instead of portable play. would suck if a solid 30fps game is only 25fps off-dock.
 

blackjaw

Member
You travel that much and you dont carry a charge pack around for devices?

No, I own no battery packs.

I have a laptop, iPad, iPhone, Vita/3DS that all last the life of the plane ride, sometimes the life of two plane rides. Never had the desire or need to carry around an extra battery during domestic flying. International flights also usually have USB charging at a minimum.
 

Manoko

Member
Going out with the dog, on a plane, on a party. That varies from 1 hour to 5.

And we still don't know the battery life.

Sure, I'm commenting this rumor, while still keeping in mind it's just a rumor.

If the battery happens to be 3 hours max, I think it's a bigger problem for the Switch than say, an iPad running 3D games lasting the same amount of time.

That's all I'm saying.
 
If it's true the Switch gets just 3 hours (developer machine or actual Switch), it's going to be mocked a bit like the Nomad was mocked. Nomad battery life was fine for me, but I did find myself running out of battery at the wrong time many times. It's a fair criticism.

No, not all flights, at least in the states, have power outlets at the seats. So a long travel day is going to make you use some external battery option or you'll be charging in the bar, and much more often than you do a tablet or your phone.

If you have kids, and you intend to keep command of your television, you're going to need to need an extra power cord to keep them off your tv set.

3 hours should be good enough for any morning or evening commute.

If you have a 3 hour batter life on this device, an additional power cord and external charging packs are a must. I think the bigger thing to worry about is a lack of games. No BC is going to put more pressure on Nintendo to get out VC titles and it was slow as hell when VC was created. I wouldn't be surprised if Mario doesn't make it out until Xmas.
 

Oersted

Member
Sure, I'm commenting this rumor, while still keeping in mind it's just a rumor.

If the battery happens to be 3 hours max, I think it's a bigger problem for the Switch than say, an iPad running 3D games lasting the same amount of time.

That's all I'm saying.

Its a different device used under nondisclosed conditions.

Basing anything on that is quite embarassing.
 

noshten

Member
Sign people getting up and arms forgetting that the 3DS launched with 3 hour battery life.
3 hours is perfectly fine - especially if you can purchase multiple docks at a low cost, simply keep one at work and charge your NS there. Once production ramps up and it has been on the market for a while I'm sure that much like 3DS it will simply receive new versions with better specs/different battery life

The trailer heavily implies it is primarily a gaming machine, you don't see anyone browsing the web on it or playing non-demanding games graphically.

Have we watched the same trailer ?

Why would Nintendo have someone browsing FB or twitter in a trailer for a new console?
 

Shiggy

Member
What does anybody do for 3 hours far from an AC outlet?
facepalm.jpg


You never travel or go outside, right?

While I don't think anybody will die because the battery life could end up as being just 3 hours, some of the replies are just making me want to do the facepalm thing.
 

zelas

Member
Let's be honest here: 3 hours battery life is not good.

That said, there are many (cheap) alternatives that we can already use to extend this by means of extent all rechargeable batteries. The real issue is if the Switch will draw power from its battery faster than it can be recharged by external battery packs.

There is also a chance that they will take the same approach that they did with the Wii U. Package in a smaller battery to keep costs down, but sell a larger capacity one for those who need it. I bought one of those larger Wii U battery's and it was worth every penny. I'll do the same if they give me the option wth the switch.

If battery packs were the only accessory needed then this might be a reasonable path to take. But beyond battery a lot of people are looking at needing to buy a memory cards, a usb drive, and pro controllers on top of that battery because they didnt buy nintendo's previous hardware.

In a vacuum it still might be fine for people to pay $300 + $100 plus worth of accessories just to have a comfortable experience might be fine for some people. But in a console market where Sony and MS have a base fidelity, feature, and price advantages, its a weak pitch to gamers.

What does anybody do for 3 hours far from an AC outlet?

My girlfriend and I often go hiking to different parks around the state. The AC outlets are being used to keep phones and the standalone GPS topped off. 3 hours (travel time) wouldnt make it roundtrip. I imagine others take longer roadtrips with multiple people where the outlets would be crowded even more.
 
Same here. The problem is that 3 hours make it impossible for the switch to be any good as a tablet and I don't see people going on a trip taking both the switch and their iPad.

3 Hours is when gaming with a demanding game. The iPAD Pro which sports the biggest battery out of all iPads is able to last 5 hours max when gaming.

If and when the Switch is revealed to also run other types of activities expect those to last much much longer
 

Xhaner5

Neo Member
I posted this in the other thread already, but maybe this one is the proper one for this talk, in this draft chart I did earlier today I assumed the outside connetors are USB but they just feel a bit different kinda like DisplayPort but probably some trick of angle/lighting.

QTth3kf.jpg



Here's a better width frame from the lady part of the trailer, which I missed before.

6mnALEL.png


Also I found a layering annomaly where the best shot seeing what's inside the docking hangar. - It doesn't seem to hide that much, but it's purpose may be for overlaying logos etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NoaNr69j0Y

Keep attention to the Dock when watching.
 

Manoko

Member
Its a different device used under nondisclosed conditions.

Basing anything on that is quite embarassing.

Oh, so we're only supposed to discuss absolute hard truths not to embarass you ?
You're one of the people who can't bring themselves to understand what "if" and "hypothesis" mean ?

Got it.

Why would Nintendo have someone browsing FB or twitter in a trailer for a new console?

Why wouldn't they ?
It would show that the Switch is capable of doing what other tablets can as well.
 
It would show that the Switch is capable of doing what other tablets can as well.

Because this was a preview meant for gamers. IF there are others activities possible on the platform they will show those later, probably with a megaton announcement like "works with all your android apps already"
 

OCD Guy

Member
But that doesn't justify anything:

When people buy an iPad, they plan on doing mostly things that won't be too hard on the hardware, this is the planned use of this device and how it's marketed.
The fact that their battery goes by quickly if you play demanding 3D games is a drawback but not one that "breaks it" on the eye of the consumer, simply because it is not the usual intended use.

The Nintendo Switch primary use is playing these demanding 3D games.
That said, it's a major drawback to the system if its primary use, and what it a marketed and sold for, only achieves 3 hours of battery life.

Comparing iPads and the Switch is irrelevant to me, they are two very different devices aimed at different markets.

The reason comparisons to Ipads, Laptops, and other portable devices is appropriate is when comparing battery powered devices running an intensive 3d application. They don't last a significant amount of time.

The recurring theme on this thread is "Nintendo dun fucked up" which is absurd for many reasons. Firstly this is just the stage we're at with battery technology, there are only two ways to promote better battery life, reduced power, or more battery. More battery means a thicker device or a larger footprint.

But did you see the thread about the size of the device? Imagine if it was any bigger, or thicker?

They could make it less powerful but we're already at the stage where people are saying it's too under-powered .

Lastly all we've been given is 3 hours max. What does that mean really? We don't know under what circumstances the battery lasted 3 hours.

Imagine if I said my iphone battery lasts 3 hours max, what would be the first reaction? What are you doing with your phone? what's your usage that you only get 3 hours battery life?

The reality is the iphone could last even less than 3 hours depending what you're doing. Play infinity blade with max screen brightness continuously and see how long you can play without charging. Oh but the iphone isn't a dedicated gaming device, yeah but dedicated gaming devices can't pull better battery technology out of their ass.

Recent threads just seem like a pedestal for certain people to shit on Nintendo. Not many are asking what the device was doing that it lasted only 3 hours. It's just full of fake concern from people that aren't really gonna buy anything Nintendo anyway. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying "accept everything because Nintendo lol". But a twitter rumour on what is likely not even a retail unit with no context is no reason to panic yet.
 
Three hours is pretty abysmal, but I generally get extended batteries/power banks for my phone/other handhelds too, so this doesn't bother me too much. It sucks but it can be remedied.

I'm more excited about the dock boosting performance than I am disappointed about the battery life. I just hope the performance doesn't deteriorate too much in handheld mode. It'll be tough to wait until January to find out official news on this stuff.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
Everybody knows since Pokémon GO. 😄

Yeah my iPhone six battery is pretty old... I get maybe an hour battling gyms and it dies :(

Got a 20000 mAh battery pack that can charge my phone about 4-5 times.

The question is how much power it actually draws, will a USB battery pack that typically gives off 2 amps be enough while it's running?
 
The reality is the iphone could last even less than 3 hours depending what you're doing. Play infinity blade with max screen brightness continuously and see how long you can play without charging.

Recent threads just seem like a pedestal for certain people to shit on Nintendo.

Thank you! I for one would rather have this thin 15mm 7 inch device that lasts 3 hours especially if it has quickcharge.

Find an outlet, 10 minutes, boom you just got an hour and a half back.
 

noshten

Member
Why wouldn't they ?
It would show that the Switch is capable of doing what other tablets can as well.


Simply put there are certain expectations for a tablet - those expectations being
- browsing
- watching/listening to media

If the NS cannot do these most basic things than it's DOA. Spending time marketing the fact that you can play media or browse on the NS is a waste of time at this point. They are focusing on the Switch as a transformative gaming device. When they start talking about the launch lineup I expect a lot of the other features that are kinda of unimportant to be featured in the launch trailer.
 

Xhaner5

Neo Member
Fanboy wet dream rubbish.

Nintendo themselves said the dock is just for power and tv connection. Let it go.

Well then michael pachter will be the most wrong, since he has barely any idea about how hardware works and he admitted that many times, he already thinks it's so good it'll do wonders against Xone and PS4, he's wrong, there is just not enough space even in the X to be able to have any kind of competition with Xone and PS4, unless there is something in the N-part or the Dock then there has to be some optional separately sold SCD later.

Basically I'm not even interested in a mobile console, so I do have some bias in what I research but that doesn't mean I make stuff up, I just speculate in this direction, I got my phone which I don't use except for the camera where it comes handy in all kinds of work and the flash as a light in darker areas, as much since I'm mainly a PC guy, I don't like the idea of always connected I try to pause electronics when I take free time and break, I try to find all the possible things for more power because it just no way even if that X is overclocked it will not be on par with PS4 it's not going to happen.

Remember back when new Zelda was shown, he immediately said how Nintendo is going to totally win with the HW, those textures didn't look anything special to be honest, due to optimization that goes into console games that kind of footage doesn't mean the HW will be a beast, yes it is open world but the view distance didn't seem as big as some Crysis or Unreal game.
 

oti

Banned
I posted this in the other thread already, but maybe this one is the proper one for this talk, in this draft chart I did earlier today I assumed the outside connetors are USB but they just feel a bit different kinda like DisplayPort but probably some trick of angle/lighting.

QTth3kf.jpg



Here's a better width frame from the lady part of the trailer, which I missed before.

6mnALEL.png


Also I found a layering annomaly where the best shot seeing what's inside the docking hangar. - It doesn't seem to hide that much, but it's purpose may be for overlaying logos etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NoaNr69j0Y

Keep attention to the Dock when watching.

Love speculation like this. Don't think it means much in this case though.
 

OCD Guy

Member
Thank you! I for one would rather have this thin 15mm 7 inch device that lasts 3 hours especially if it has quickcharge.

Find an outlet, 10 minutes, boom you just got an hour and a half back.

Exactly.

What's more important to me (unless battery life is ridiculously bad) is charging options, does it have some sort of quickcharge, and does it use a universal charging cable or yet another proprietary system that I have to carry with me. If it's a usb cable that I can use to charge all my other portable devices that's great.

Can you honestly the imagine the reactions if the Switch was bigger, thicker and had even less power? lol As if it would then be praised for it's better battery life.

Nop, you guys just want to hear whatever you want. Docked mode running faster isn't incompatible with the dock not having anything inside. Basically, it just means out of the dock, the console is DOWNclocked.
Exactly.

I'm surprised Nintedo are being given this much credit to be honest. It really will likely just boil down to two different power states for the Nvidia SoC. When the device is not docked it will run at a lower frequency to promote better battery life.

There's no way the dock houses another Nvidia SoC, or any cpu or gpy processing of any kind. I've said many times it sounds like a glorified breakout box or hdmi cable. At best there's active cooling and perhaps additional storage as well as the usual connections like usb etc.
 

Manoko

Member
Nop, you guys just want to hear whatever you want. Docked mode running faster isn't incompatible with the dock not having anything inside. Basically, it just means out of the dock, the console is DOWNclocked.

Unfortunately that's what I believe as well.

The tablet part of the Nintendo Switch already sounds like it will cost quite a bit.
I don't see Nintendo ramping up the cost of the whole package by putting additional computing power in the dock.

This hybrid feature comes at a cost in terms of performance and I think everyone needs to accept it, if you want to enjoy the Switch for what it is.

I think it's disappointing they went that route but it indeed makes the most sense for them.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Not really, they were very vague.

They were hardly vague

Nintendo continued: "The dock is not the main console unit of Nintendo Switch. The main unit of Nintendo Switch is the unit that has the LCD screen, which the two Joy-Con controllers can be attached to and detached from. The main function of the Nintendo Switch Dock is to provide an output to the TV, as well as charging and providing power to the system."

That is pretty clear to me. If fanboys want to continue with the wet dream that the docking unit contains an extra more powerful GPU then go ahead but it's not going to happen.
 
Fanboy wet dream rubbish.

Nintendo themselves said the dock is just for power and tv connection. Let it go.

That quote was still not very conclusive. Well, to some it is, i understand. But in reality, no it isn't. The dock might still Help in some way or another. Ofcourse its function is just to power / charge the handheld and connect to the tv. But with connecting to the tv it might help in some way. The quote said nothing about it not doing anything.
It's a bulky HDMI port otherwise. Why not put a HDMI out on the handheld, it allready has a stand.

We'll have to wait and see.

To just talk down to people and call them fanboys is a bit silly imo.
 

Oersted

Member
Oh, so we're only supposed to discuss absolute hard truths not to embarass you ?
You're one of the people who can't bring themselves to understand what "if" and "hypothesis" mean ?

Got it.



Why wouldn't they ?
It would show that the Switch is capable of doing what other tablets can as well.

Hey man, with no word I said you shouldn't embarass yourself. I said how you do it. Using a different device under nondisclosed conditions as sole reference point is.

If it would be any other device you would atleast wait for the consumer device, tested under clear conditions.

Btw, has she posted any further context yet?
 

diaspora

Member
The dock isn't going to do shit other than provide power, charge the device, and have TV-out/ USB ports. Like the original 3DS dock but with ports.
 
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