Keith Stack
Banned
I wouldn't be too keen if that had happened to me. In fact, I'd probably be quaking with rage.
This company is most certainly doomed.
This company is most certainly doomed.
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Layoffs hit ID Software Today
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Space Runaway
Member
This isn't too surprising considering Rage's dev time vs sales performance. Nevertheless, I feel bad for those who got laid off.
Still, while it had obvious faults(And that sour final mission/ending...arg), I enjoyed Rage. I do fall into the crowd who thinks the game would have been better if it was designed as a straight shooter and not some quasi-Zelda fps with car combat. A cheap ass tacked on dm mode would have also been infinitely better than their racing MP too.
Hopefully id doesn't lallygag quite as much with Doom 4's release.
Still, while it had obvious faults(And that sour final mission/ending...arg), I enjoyed Rage. I do fall into the crowd who thinks the game would have been better if it was designed as a straight shooter and not some quasi-Zelda fps with car combat. A cheap ass tacked on dm mode would have also been infinitely better than their racing MP too.
Hopefully id doesn't lallygag quite as much with Doom 4's release.
well, yes.
Interfectum
Member
facepalm.jpg
CharmingCharlie
Member
Never nice to hear about job losses especially at a time when everything is down the crapper. I have to confess though it will be curious to see how iD spin this to make it the fault of PC gamers (I just know it is coming).
Genesis Knight
Member
This is sort of funny, since (until Rage) id was THE graphics powerhouse to beat.
It started early stages of development four years ago now and has had a dedicated team for most of that time, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the project management issues that plagued RAGE are busy biting DOOM in the ass too.
Houston3000
Member
RAGE was a good game, it's not bland or boring, it's not too long or too short. It has genuinely fantastic shooting mechanics, in the way your guns behave (the oomph, the sound, the recoil, the enemy reaction, the damage, etc), and it has a awesome graphics and character animations with very competent voice acting. The driving mechanics are well done, albeit the systems surrounding the driving mechanics are pretty lack-luster... There are definitely flaws in the game - I would say, in general, level design/layout is simply mediocre at best; as I said the driving systems are lackluster with pretty boring races and an "open-world" that doesn't really matter or that's not particularly engaging at all to drive around. Then on top of that there was the technical "controversy"... the whole texture pop-in thing that made its rounds on youtube.
The problem is I think people hear the positives and the negatives and in their head they apply it to some formula where the end product is simply "mediocre". Then when people associate the fact that id's next big franchise, their new debut, turned out "mediocre" shit hits the fan. Really though, RAGE is not mediocre, it's a great game. Look at what you're comparing it to in it's genre this year... Duke Nukem, Brink, Fear 3, Bulletstorm, the single player campaigns of Battlefield 3, and Modern Warfare 3. It's disappointing that not enough people bought it, would of liked to have seen a sequel.
The problem is I think people hear the positives and the negatives and in their head they apply it to some formula where the end product is simply "mediocre". Then when people associate the fact that id's next big franchise, their new debut, turned out "mediocre" shit hits the fan. Really though, RAGE is not mediocre, it's a great game. Look at what you're comparing it to in it's genre this year... Duke Nukem, Brink, Fear 3, Bulletstorm, the single player campaigns of Battlefield 3, and Modern Warfare 3. It's disappointing that not enough people bought it, would of liked to have seen a sequel.
You know, now that I think about it, and after that quote I'm thinking maybe those that let Doom slip could be the ones that are being talked about here as they weren't 'senior' people (on the Doom project).
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The ton of money you elude to is why they were able to churn on a title for seven years and continue to hire people during that time. If Rage been a success and allowed them to refill their cash safety cushion, they may not have had layoffs. But since the game didn't do well and the money was spent . . . there may not be much for them to fall back on at this point. Their 3rd party titles (Quake 4, Wolfenstein, Quake Wars) didn't set the world on fire, and they probably lost money as well (at least the latter two). When you have a few titles that failed to meet financial expectations, a high burn rate, and no savior in site, there's not much you can do. You either continue down the path that hasn't worked and probably go out of business, or you tighten your belt. There has to be a balance between the money going out and the money coming in. I think id's balance sheet has been lopsided for a while.
I'm wondering if Zenimax still views buying the studio as a good decision.
paperboywriter
Member
the tech or idea behind the tech in rage was impressive. rage as a game was just average at best and so were rage's sales.
triple-A-title selling under expectations -> layoffs. sad, but often the case.
triple-A-title selling under expectations -> layoffs. sad, but often the case.
The Mana Legend
Banned
The quake from this will doom id, and probably put a few employees in a rage.
You are too keen on making bad puns.
If the Rage would've been a PC exclusive it would've sold a lot better imo. They have a much larger fan base on PC.
Doom 3 sold like what? 3,5 million copies?
ID games used to get hyped up just as much as Blizzard or Valve. But as much as I like ID. Rage was like a huge crap on their PC fans. It didn't push PC graphics, it didn't have deathmatch AND it was a bad console port. Sure the gunplay was some of the best I've had in years. But that doesn't make up for the rest of it.
Doom 3 made A LOT of people upgrade thier PC's.
It was 2004's Crysis, only bigger.
Doom 3 sold like what? 3,5 million copies?
ID games used to get hyped up just as much as Blizzard or Valve. But as much as I like ID. Rage was like a huge crap on their PC fans. It didn't push PC graphics, it didn't have deathmatch AND it was a bad console port. Sure the gunplay was some of the best I've had in years. But that doesn't make up for the rest of it.
Doom 3 made A LOT of people upgrade thier PC's.
It was 2004's Crysis, only bigger.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Wolfenstein.
This is a real shame, but probably because steps are being taken not the end of the studio that really got me into gaming in a serious way.
I really wish they'd do a Quake/Quake3-ish title. I loved online fragging. I'd buy a PC for a decent fragger, and I haven't been a PC gamer for ten years.
I really wish they'd do a Quake/Quake3-ish title. I loved online fragging. I'd buy a PC for a decent fragger, and I haven't been a PC gamer for ten years.
paperboywriter
Member
you are right. used to. but not because rage wasn't exclusive to the PC. it simply wasn't that good. on many fronts.
Hype and quality are completely unrelated topics.
I'm very sure that if it were pushing PC hardware to it's limits with not before seen graphics and production values like Doom 3 that it would have been hyped up beyond belief by the community. And Nvidea and AMD would be rubbing their hands at the boost in sales they would have gotten from people upgrading their videocards.
element
Member
ummmm. The Design Director on Doom left in December. He is now at Gearbox.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Well, this is what we need, another weak game with nice graphics getting tons of hype and selling tons of copies. That's exactly what pushes the industry forward.
I liked id in the 1990's - when they were releasing great games. Rage is not a great game, so I don't really care if it flops - in fact, I rather it would.
Difference between left and being laid off. I'm saying the people that let is get to where it was after RAGE was finished could be the ones being laid off. I don't know the specifics as to whom.
I feel "standard business practice" isn't always the most helpful term though.
I mean, "standard business practice" for when you run out of money is to go bankrupt, so that can really contain a huge domain of things.
To me it kind of implies they're only working on one project though, since they didn't really have enough to do two at once if Doom is going to take several more years, and thus cut anyone they didn't need.
maniac-kun
Member
Now they are motivated to make Doom 4 kickass or its lights out for id ._.
It was a $20 game released at $60 (bought it at $50 and I feel ripped off - at a lower price point I would have been satisfied with the game). I hope everyone lands on their feet.
Are you happy the pressures you put on the industry graphics whores?
Hope they're all alright. I can imagine how depressing it must be.
Extremely happy.
element
Member
People in those positions mostly move on because they know something is up.
Oh I don't doubt that they're attempting to make themselves look good and not raise any alarms. Saying that this the laying off of people is "standard" because we fired them for not performing
. I'm postulating that those laid off are people that we were working on Doom while RAGE was being done. When RAGE was finished, Doom was in an unacceptable state in development given the time and resources dedicated to it. Thus, those responsible were let go. edit: and as you mentioned, they weren't needed.
Agreed. So he knew something was up and left before he was fired. Again, speculating on who all was let go (I don't know the specifics, do you?) and that possibly those let get weren't as crucial to the development and/or could be replaced.
When I made the 'senior' part of my post, it was to what I know specifically in that some senior development people left others in charge of Doom while they worked on RAGE. When RAGE was done and they got back to Doom, they were VERY disappointed and some things had to be scrapped entirely and started from scratch. Now, were those responsible for that wasted time/effort/money the ones laid off? I don't know, but sounds plausible.
From the LinkedIn:
Ouch.
Oh I don't doubt that they're attempting to make themselves look good and not raise any alarms. Saying that this the laying off of people is "standard" because we fired them for not performing
I'm postulating that those laid off are people that we were working on Doom while RAGE was being done. When RAGE was finished, Doom was in an unacceptable state in development given the time and resources dedicated to it. Thus, those responsible were let go.
Hmm, that is quite possible.
Unfortunately I don't think we have enough resume records to trace.
Doom 4 - a next-gen title comfirmed.
AgentOtaku
Member
oh no T__T
Still loved RAGE
Still loved RAGE
astroturfing
Member
not a surprise, yeah.. sucks a lot though. i truly hoped Rage would be a big success for them.
AgentOtaku
Member
But... their source is Adam Bromell's tweet, via this thread.
Sadly unsurprising, RAGE didn't sell well and the release date wasn't the best spot.
That's their source for the original rumor.
The text notes that they contacted Bethesda directly.
JasonUresti
Member
Costs more money to develop for consoles, id had to hire on more people in that area, retail console FPS games is a bloodbath of a market, and with the small amount that the pubs earn off each retail sale, you have to sell several million to justify the budget and dev time of a game like Rage.
Basically, unless you are a huge company with lots of money, going at the console space and failing is a crippling blow, and often fatal.
id is only still alive because they are owned by Zenimax. Had they been able to stay independent until the publishing of Rage, we would now be hearing about id shutting down, or being forced to sell the studio for a bargain to keep it open.
Malio
Member
I like you.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Sucks. ID actually gave a crap about the PS3 and even managed to achieve a higher frame than the 360 version. For that I'll continue to support them.
NullPointer
Member
A dog, crossing a bridge over a stream with a piece of flesh in his mouth, saw his own shadow in the water and took it for that of another dog, with a piece of meat double his own in size. He immediately let go of his own, and fiercely attacked the other dog to get his larger piece from him. He thus lost both: that which he grasped at in the water, because it was a shadow; and his own, because the stream swept it away.
specialguy
Banned
Kind of weird the juxtaposition of Skyrim's success and Rage's failure for Zenimax/Id/Bethesda. Id must look at Skyrim and wonder what went wrong with Rage.
Well, hopefully ID will realize 60 FPS is the wrong decision, better graphics and 30 FPS is the right one. Though, I'm not sure if it would have saved Rage (that probably had more to do with setting, lack of relevant multiplayer), it couldn't have hurt.
Well, hopefully ID will realize 60 FPS is the wrong decision, better graphics and 30 FPS is the right one. Though, I'm not sure if it would have saved Rage (that probably had more to do with setting, lack of relevant multiplayer), it couldn't have hurt.