Support NeoGAF

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Ohhhhhh here we go. I'm genuinely getting so tired of this. It's not enough to put me off buying from LRG, but I really don't like this sort of consumer-blaming wallowing that happens on Twitter from these guys.

I suppose you can file it under "at least they're communicating with their fanbase!" but when the communication is baiting "buy our shit or else!" tweets, it's not fun.

At least we've gotten



Fairly quickly I suppose.



It wasn't even out of their control. They forgot to ask for it. Innocent mistake and all that, but still.

edit: Another Tweet from Josh during his stream of consciousness:



Thoughts?

They do this all the time, it's a bit rediculous at some of the exaggeration they do. "Backlash" from two people mean they are now worried about other releases. Lol. I remember a while ago when Stealth Inc took longer than like two hours to sell out and you would have thought the world was ending

Like both Josh and Doug mentioned in the past, it's time to innovate and try to one-up your competition, not to blame your customers, directly or indirectly. I kinda get where Kresnik said, it's getting tiring the whole "Dariusburst took two days to sell out, now I'm worried about Atelier" or "would you buy Exile's End in order to get Senran Kagura", don't expect or even try to take your customers hostage to buy one product just to get another they might be interested. Most of the issues appearing aren't with the customers or how long or well these games are selling, at all. They mostly lie with how business are being handled by the company.

Pretty much this^^

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Per Twitter, the "backlash" is 2 people complaining about "price gouging" with DBCS Vita. There's basically no backlash.

You know they gauge feedback on more than just twitter responses, right? While you may have only seen 2 on twitter, I've seen multiple others in this thread, on cheapassgamer, their own forums and places like gamefaqs (not sure why they would put much stock into this cesspool), all of which they check. It may not have been some major thing where it had a large effect on this release, but there's enough of it that it may be something to keep in mind going forward.

 

[Occam]

I bought the LRG release of Dariusburst Vita despite already owning a Japanese limited edition copy but I can see why others didn't. Still, it sold out in a weekend, so what's the problem?

 

[Weevilone]

You know they gauge feedback on more than just twitter responses, right? While you may have only seen 2 on twitter, I've seen multiple others in this thread, on cheapassgamer, their own forums and places like gamefaqs (not sure why they would put much stock into this cesspool), all of which they check. It may not have been some major thing where it had a large effect on this release, but there's enough of it that it may be something to keep in mind going forward.

I'm not counting "feedback". I'm quoting Josh. He said 2 people had complained and he was worried, etc.

Obviously higher prices will slow sales, but as long as they easily sell out it doesn't matter.

 

[Curler]

I bought the LRG release of Dariusburst Vita despite already owning a Japanese limited edition copy but I can see why others didn't. Still, it sold out in a weekend, so what's the problem?

(Technically it's still sitting at 11%...) Still, it will sell, just like everything else does. Numerous factors on that specific game that we already brought up, Atelier would definitely be different, and would sell anyways, even at a high price.

I know people are mad at the "they price the games higher than normal" but I think one factor is forgotten: they are NOT the original publisher. Normally the same publisher will make a physical copy, and don't exactly need to give royalties to themselves. Considering pricing, profit margins on most goods are not as high as people think, with everything else considered.

 

[hawk2025]

They do this all the time, it's a bit rediculous at some of the exaggeration they do. "Backlash" from two people mean they are now worried about other releases. Lol. I remember a while ago when Stealth Inc took longer than like two hours to sell out and you would have thought the world was ending


Pretty much this^^

And now we don't have Stealth Inc 2, which is one of my favorites

 

[t26]

I bought the LRG release of Dariusburst Vita despite already owning a Japanese limited edition copy but I can see why others didn't. Still, it sold out in a weekend, so what's the problem?

I'm not counting "feedback". I'm quoting Josh. He said 2 people had complained and he was worried, etc.

Obviously higher prices will slow sales, but as long as they easily sell out it doesn't matter.

Read the entire tweet here

https://twitter.com/LimitedRunJosh/status/878807264156684288

Basically Atelier or other high profile Vita games would need at least 5,000 copies. At $50 they will have a hard time moving the last 1000 copies.

 

[test_account]

Like both Josh and Doug mentioned in the past, it's time to innovate and try to one-up your competition, not to blame your customers, directly or indirectly. I kinda get where Kresnik said, it's getting tiring the whole "Dariusburst took two days to sell out, now I'm worried about Atelier" or "would you buy Exile's End in order to get Senran Kagura", don't expect or even try to take your customers hostage to buy one product just to get another they might be interested. Most of the issues appearing aren't with the customers or how long or well these games are selling, at all. They mostly lie with how business are being handled by the company.

Whats the relation in the question about Exile's End and Senran Kagura?

 

[Curler]

Whats the relation in the question about Exile's End and Senran Kagura?

Same publisher kinda/sorta. It's a thing a lot of publishers will do is "hold hostage" a title everyone wants, with something else that they also want to push and sell. I'm really not sure the reason behind it, but it does happen quite a bit, even if the title is completely unrelated.

 

[Olengie]

Whats the relation in the question about Exile's End and Senran Kagura?

Buying Exiles End will open the door to Senran Kagura I think? Or just to XSEED in general

 

[Kresnik258]

Basically Atelier or other high profile Vita games would need at least 5,000 copies. At $50 they will have a hard time moving the last 1000 copies.

Based on... Dariusburst?

Like, if the data point for whether Atelier will shift 5k copies at $50 is based on a late release of Dariusburst selling out 4k copies over the course of a weekend; alongside a few people moaning, then I just don't get it.

I understand it's a gamble. I get that, truly. But I just don't think much of a conclusion can be drawn from this.

 

[Ephidel]

Read the entire tweet here

https://twitter.com/LimitedRunJosh/status/878807264156684288

Basically Atelier or other high profile Vita games would need at least 5,000 copies. At $50 they will have a hard time moving the last 1000 copies.

This reasoning is bullshit.

It's not all "well the Vita folks moan more about price and it took more than a day to sell!"

They're different types of game. Yes, some people like multiple genres, and yes, some people buy full sets of games, but some people have a narrower focus and the audience for rpgs and shooters are different.
(However yes, if they're fully relying on full set-ers then they might be a bit screwed because some people are starting to burn out on that front).

It's also a multiformat release whereas Atelier wouldn't be so interest was split across formats for those who wouldn't want to buy both, and one of those formats was released first. Not even just first, it was released at a point when the other version was still unconfirmed. People with both consoles might have opted for only buying one of those, and opted for the former because it was the one that was available. Had they been available at the same time they might have made a different choice, but they didn't have that option.
(But if we are comparing print runs, Dariusburst sold 2800 standard PS4 copies, 2000 limited editions, and is on the way to selling 4000 vita copies. That's a total run of 8800 copies. All at a higher price point. I wouldn't exactly use that as a metric to prove that 5000 sales of Atelier is unworkable).

They also need to consider that a decent portion of their fanbase is international, and while you can switch accounts relatively easily on PS4 it isn't as easy on Vita.
For people who don't want to deal with the hassle of account switching or don't have extra memory cards (or who can't account switch because they'll lose access to their PSM titles... yeah, that one might be me) the release becomes substantially less desirable because they can't use the extensive DLC.
If you're planning on playing the games, not just collecting them, then the LRG version of the game is less desirable because it actively has access to less content for those buyers.

Maybe I'm a little defensive because I'm part of the problem.
I opted out on Dariusburst. The fact it cost more did have an impact on my decision, as did the DLC scenario, but mainly it was due to the fact I'm just not that fond of shooters and there are other things I'd rather spend my money on.
(... and one of those things is Atelier games. I'd buy those, even though I already have them digitally. They're just games I like more. Also, I want them to start with Ayesha please, so I can finish my Dusk Trilogy set!)
Alternatively, maybe I'm a little miffed because I feel like they're trying to bullshit their way out of releasing something I want, instead of just being honest and going "Look, we've discussed it with TK. The Japanese branch aren't as amenable as the US side and/or they want a higher print run than we feel would be workable. As we can't negotiate a plan that will work for both of us, we're going to have to write this one off for now to focus on other ventures. We'll have news about some of those soon!"
Yeah, I'd find that disappointing, but I'd get over it.

 

[mollipen]

Thoughts?

I don't own a Switch yet, and I would have no plans to "abandon" the Vita—because that to me is something you do for a primary platform, not one you have for specific and/or niche reasons—but having used our work unit quite a bit lately, I can now understand that happening.

I still prefer the Vita as a portable machine, because man, the Switch is just so big and bulky to me. However, you know, Nintendo has kinda nailed a number of things with it, things that make me glad that we do have a machine that can become the Vita replacement once that time needs to come (yes, I know some will argue that time already came). As much as I loved the DS and 3DS, they were never able to step into that role of the "killer" handheld, and Nintendo's recent consoles haven't given me much faith in the company. They've kind of knocked it out of the park with the Switch, though.

I don't want to think "I wish this was on Switch instead of Vita" at this point, but next year? Yeah, maybe. My big fear, though, is if those games will make the journey. I don't have faith yet in the companies that found refuge (handheld or just in general) on Sony's portable doing the same for Nintendo's. There are some companies that simple don't want to work with Nintendo. There are some that don't trust the market will be there. (Will we see otome games on the Switch to any measure? Girls' Love games?)

The good part is that there seem to be more positives than negatives at this point. The DS showed that a Nintendo platform could get that depth of genres and game types if consumer numbers were there, and the likelihood of no next Sony portable plus the great sales of the Switch so far seem to equal a machine that will be the only choice in handhelds if you don't want to go the smartphone route, yet a good choice, which is a huge deal.

Then again, smartphones aren't going anywhere in Japan, and I'd hate to see some of the games/franchises/devs that found a home on the Vita decide to simply go over there.

 

[t26]

Based on... Dariusburst?

Like, if the data point for whether Atelier will shift 5k copies at $50 is based on a late release of Dariusburst selling out 4k copies over the course of a weekend; alongside a few people moaning, then I just don't get it.

I understand it's a gamble. I get that, truly. But I just don't think much of a conclusion can be drawn from this.

Broken age also took a little long to sell out. If you understand it is a gamble, why would LRG put their money on the line?. They money can easily be use for several PS4 game that will sell out at 3000 copies. This is even before accounting Vita game cost 1-3 times to produce

 

[test_account]

Same publisher kinda/sorta. It's a thing a lot of publishers will do is "hold hostage" a title everyone wants, with something else that they also want to push and sell. I'm really not sure the reason behind it, but it does happen quite a bit, even if the title is completely unrelated.

Buying Exiles End will open the door to Senran Kagura I think? Or just to XSEED in general

I see, that sounds more like a publisher deal, doesnt it? That Marvelous or Xseed (or who the publisher is) is trying to make a package deal, which makes business sense. Doesnt sound like LRG is trying to hold any game hostage.

 

[Kresnik258]

Broken age also took a little long to sell out. If you understand it is a gamble, why would LRG put their money on the line?. They money can easily be use for several PS4 game that will sell out at 3000 copies. This is even before accounting Vita game cost 1-3 times to produce

Why bother with Vita games at all, eh?

But anyway, they took a gamble by starting this venture in the first place, so that's why I would suspect they'd want to put their money on the line - they'd done it before and it paid off. They know better than anyone that Vita market can be lucrative.

If it's too much of a risk, that's fine. I'd be very disappointed, but such is life (we weren't getting the games anyway). Just don't consumer-blame, especially on Twitter which is where the most dedicated fans will be; the kind of people who are buying x game in the hopes of getting y game later.

And especially if they're not willing to take the gamble based on what I think is a very flawed reference point (it took a while to sell 4k copies of late Dariusburst so why should we bother with 5k of Atelier?)

 

[Shinriji]

Is not a matter of vita buyers aren't there anymore, but if the vita Scalpers are biting. My theory is that they are jumping ship earlier.

And we know how important they are for LRG bottom line.

 

[Kresnik258]

Sorry to double post, just wanted to write some final thoughts on the subject before I go to bed.

The way I see the situation with DBCS/Atelier is basically what can we learn from Dariusburst that might affect Atelier?

- We've learnt that 4000 people are willing to buy a $50 Vita game from LRG.
- It may take longer than a few minutes to sell through 4k copies

Which is good news, right? But as they say, they're going to need more for Atelier, so 4k won't cut it. So that's where you get into weighing up where Atelier and DBCS differ, and the first place is the things that DBCS had going against it vs. what Atelier has going for it, which is all the stuff everyone else has already listed:

- DB had already been available physically since January 2016 in Japanese. Admittedly it sat in my Play-Asia wishlist for the past 18 months and I very nearly bought it on a couple of occasions. Atelier also exists in Japanese, but is a massively difficult import vs. DB which is very easy to play in Japanese.

- DB is also available on PS4 & PC. Comparatively, Atelier is also available on PS3, a last-gen console.

- DB has the same content across all versions and a lot of region-specific DLC; Atelier has more content on Vita and all DLC included.

- DB had already been available physically, in English, for PS4 a few weeks before release. The Atelier games have already been available, in English, for PS3 for ages. So I'm not quite sure what to make of that point really.

- DB is a SHMUP, which typically have a small but vocal fanbase in the west; Atelier is an RPG which have been the bread-and-butter franchise for Vita fanbase for at least 3 years.

I'm seeing enough differences between the two that I don't really see how many conclusions can be drawn, other than the two aforementioned points:

- We've learnt that 4000 people are willing to buy a $50 Vita game from LRG.
- It may take longer than a few minutes to sell through 4k copies

It's gonna be interesting to see how things play out, really. I feel like there's a few good 'test' games coming up soon to really see how Vita fans are doing.

Salt & Sanctuary should be a good game to see how quickly it sells out on PS4 vs. Vita. Good port on both platforms; acclaimed on both platforms and there seems to be demand for it on both. I'm expecting Vita to go slower, but not substantially so.

Oceanhorn is another interesting one, in the sense that even though there's a Vita physical; a superior handheld version exists on Switch, just without physical. So again, a comparison to PS4 will be interesting to see just how much of Vita's lunch Switch really is eating.

Finally I think VA-11 HALL-A should be an interesting case, just because it's a fairly major Vita 'exclusive' title that'd be interesting to gauge interest from fanbase in. I'm expecting it to do well too, but it depends on run size.

 

[calc84maniac]

Checked again and was surprised to only see 7 copies left. (Now 6, thanks impulse purchases...) I don't know why people keep worrying about things not selling out over the entire weekend.

 

[noquarter]

I ended up buying a copy of Dariusburst, but have considerably slowed down on LRG. Once I missed a couple of releases, was really easy to not feel the need to try to complete the set and I do see my Switch as taking up the spot of the Vita for portable gaming.

If they would have had a monthly buy plan, like loot crate or whatever, I would have singed up to make sure I got all the Vita games, but both release times are pretty bad for me and I've pretty much resigned myself to just getting the odd title I have interest in if I can.

 

[Olengie]

Checked again and was surprised to only see 7 copies left. (Now 6, thanks impulse purchases...) I don't know why people keep worrying about things not selling out over the entire weekend.

Yah. This happened two to three times already. People should worry when it hits the 1 Week mark, not the "ZOMG, it took 3 days. It's the end guys!"

 

[DrFunk]

I bought the last Darius

:3

 

[Curler]

I bought the last Darius

:3

We have a winner right here! Sold out for good now!

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Does LRG still sell replacement PS4 cases? Don't see it on their website.

 

[sechsterangriff]

From Josh's Twitter:

There're nothing that I appreciate more than using a game success' to judge the viability of a completely different and unrelated game... /s

 

[test_account]

http://i.imgur.com/IRqYprW.png

There're nothing that I appreciate more than using a game success' to judge the viability of a completely different and unrelated game... /s

The games are indeed different, but both are games from Marvelous, most likely a connection there.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

There're nothing that I appreciate more than using a game success' to judge the viability of a completely different and unrelated game... /s

Yep this is what I meant.

"Buy Pang Adventures so we can maybe possibly hopefully get more DotEmu games!"

Erm no thanks

 

[Shadowman16]

Eh, I'd buy a physical release of Exiles End as I really enjoyed the game, SK Bon Appetite however I already have physically so I've no interest personally in that getting released...

 

[sechsterangriff]

The games are indeed different, but both are games from Marvelous, most likely a connection there.

I wasn't aware of that. Then they're not completely unrelated.
I cans see how the first game selling well surely won't hurt. But still, I don't know if using a completely different game as a metric is the best idea.

 

[mthodmn101]

There're nothing that I appreciate more than using a game success' to judge the viability of a completely different and unrelated game... /s

Exile's End looks like shit... How about start with SK instead and then release the shit?

 

[Shizuka]

I wasn't aware of that. Then they're not completely unrelated.
I cans see how the first game selling well surely won't hurt. But still, I don't know if using a completely different game as a metric is the best idea.

They're not using it as a metric, they're using it to show the publisher that they can sell games.

 

[hawk2025]

Deemo arrived!

The ESRB sticker is actually kinda cute

 

[Olengie]

Any announcements for this week?

 

[Shizuka]

Oh wow, 132 comments on r/Vita for Josh's tweet last night.

 

[Ventara]

Any announcements for this week?

I'm wondering to what happened to 2/3 announcements that were supposed to happen last week. Delayed?

 

[foobarry81]

Oh wow, 132 comments on r/Vita for Josh's tweet last night.

So basically more backlash about Josh's tweets than about DBCS's price.

Hrm....

 

[Olengie]

I'm wondering to what happened to 2/3 announcements that were supposed to happen last week. Delayed?

Yep. Cuz next week should be a new run

 

[Kresnik258]

So uhm, I pestered Image & Form about the SteamWorld Collection Vita physical release they've been teasing since about October last year and got this response:

https://twitter.com/ImageForm/status/879433055932481537

Actually, yes! Our friends at Limited @LimitedRunGames have pushed it through the approval process now, so we're just waiting.

I know they've hinted at it a lot in the past, but I don't think I've seen them flat-out confirm it until now? Wondering how far it is from release. Surprised it wasn't included in the E3 video.

I wonder how it'll sell, given it was readily available on PS4 & WiiU. I know I'm down for a copy at least.

 

[Ventara]

So uhm, I pestered Image & Form about the SteamWorld Collection Vita physical release they've been teasing since about October last year and got this response:

https://twitter.com/ImageForm/status/879433055932481537



I know they've hinted at it a lot in the past, but I don't think I've seen them flat-out confirm it until now? Wondering how far it is from release. Surprised it wasn't included in the E3 video.

I wonder how it'll sell, given it was readily available on PS4 & WiiU. I know I'm down for a copy at least.

Oh nice! Yeah, don't think it really has been confirmed like this yet. was worried it wouldn't come to fruition. Definitely down for a copy!

 

[ExitPlanetDust]

I looked the game up when Shinriji mentioned it for the vote list.

It’s a digital-only PS4/PSV remake of a 2006 PC indie (Doujin) game that was released last October and got an English language patch a month later. The only physical version is the self-published Doujin release on PC, expensive and it does not contain the English language option.

PS4 Version, PS4 Demo

Vita Version, Vita Demo

Steam

PC Version (ebay)

Thanks for posting the links. I had no idea it was fully translated when your console is set to English. I played the Steam demo awhile ago and it never clicked, but this version is fantastic!

C'mon LRG, grab this one!

 

[oldmario]

So uhm, I pestered Image & Form about the SteamWorld Collection Vita physical release they've been teasing since about October last year and got this response:

https://twitter.com/ImageForm/status/879433055932481537



I know they've hinted at it a lot in the past, but I don't think I've seen them flat-out confirm it until now? Wondering how far it is from release. Surprised it wasn't included in the E3 video.

I wonder how it'll sell, given it was readily available on PS4 & WiiU. I know I'm down for a copy at least.

around the time the PS4 version came out they said they'd look into it, surprised they didn't get RSG to publish it again.

 

[dallow_bg]

So that Amazon UK message about "not available to ship to United States" means nothing?

After ordering an SNES Classic that had the same message, I tried an order with Drive Girls and Velocity 2X. They went through just fine.

Wish I had tried back when SAO: Hollow Realization was available via Amazon.

 

[Shizuka]

So uhm, I pestered Image & Form about the SteamWorld Collection Vita physical release they've been teasing since about October last year and got this response:

https://twitter.com/ImageForm/status/879433055932481537

I know they've hinted at it a lot in the past, but I don't think I've seen them flat-out confirm it until now? Wondering how far it is from release. Surprised it wasn't included in the E3 video.

I wonder how it'll sell, given it was readily available on PS4 & WiiU. I know I'm down for a copy at least.

Hope it's not another Mutand Mudds mess where they're selling the games separately.

 

[Olengie]

Hope it's not another Mutand Mudds mess where they're selling the games separately.

Pls no

 

[Shizuka]

Pls no

Guess what?

 

[Olengie]

Guess what?

So like 50 bucks plus shipping. Well, i just hope they dont half ass the box art.

But likely this will stop my LRG Vita streak. But well see

 

[Clive]

Hope it's not another Mutand Mudds mess where they're selling the games separately.

As much as I would prefer these games on a portable it would be at least $70 CAD to get it shipped to Canada if sold separately whereas the PS4 collection is $22 CAD on Amazon.ca with free shipping. I'm not even sure I want to pay more than $30 USD at this point.

Super cool that these fantastic games are coming to the Vita either way but I might not be big enough of a Vita fan anymore to stomach paying $50 extra to get them on Vita personally.

 

[Shizuka]

So like 50 bucks plus shipping. Well, i just hope they dont half ass the box art.

But likely this will stop my LRG Vita streak. But well see

Josh mentioned on Twitter that the whole DBCS situation was just that he was worried the higher price for releases would only alienate their audience. I think pulling another stunt as what they did with Mutant Mudds, with this situation being even worse considering there are complete collections on other platforms, would seal the deal as the biggest alienating move to their core audience yet. And yet, I hope if this release does take an extra day or a few to sell, they don't blame it on Vita fans switching to the Switch or not willing to buy physical releases anymore.

 

[Ventara]

Guess what?

I can't help but feel their reasoning is BS. There have been other games that do compilations on Vita. Even if they have to do a new submission through Sony, is it really not worth the effort for us Vita peeps?

But again, LRG can get away with it, but I'm certainly not happy about it. I've stopped treating LRG as a company I like to support and mentioning it to others. I'm glad competitors have popped up.

So like 50 bucks plus shipping. Well, i just hope they dont half ass the box art.

But likely this will stop my LRG Vita streak. But well see

If you bought Mutant Mudds, you'll buy this. ;P

 

[Olengie]

Josh mentioned on Twitter that the whole DBCS situation was just that he was worried the higher price for releases would only alienate their audience. I think pulling another stunt as what they did with Mutant Mudds, with this situation being even worse considering there are complete collections on other platforms, would seal the deal as the biggest alienating move to their core audience yet. And yet, I hope if this release does take an extra day or a few to sell, they don't blame it on Vita fans switching to the Switch or not willing to buy physical releases anymore.

For cheaper. Like less than 20 bucks