donutzsick
Member
Ahh the classic "they called me a name first." Glad we cleared up why you are posting the way you are.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
LTTP: FFXV aka why am i jumping when all I want to do is talk to you
- Thread starter rocK`
- Start date
Ahh the classic "they called me a name first." Glad we cleared up why you are posting the way you are.
I'm furious at how this game wasted my time with all the grieving annoyances the OP described as well as presenting me with a dumbed down plot that instead of focusing on interesting narratives such as the Scourge of the Stars and the significance of death, turned it into a basic romp of 4 idiots and a poor maiden in distress that still loves her prince despite not having seen him for years.
The only chance at redemption this thing has is in a possible upcoming plot development DLC. But at this point in time we just need to move on to FFXVI or maybe away from FF altogether.
The only chance at redemption this thing has is in a possible upcoming plot development DLC. But at this point in time we just need to move on to FFXVI or maybe away from FF altogether.
Yep. Game's still shit though. What are you gonna do?
donutzsick
Member
Talk about it with more reasonable people than you! Looking forward to y2kev's potential post about it especially
Ganon Dragmire
Member
X/X-2 = XIII Trilogy > XII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XV
Mister Megative
Banned
So, it's "so-and-so said a bad thing first". That doesn't change the fact you're claiming to want critical discourse after pages of being brusque, dismissive, and rather unpleasant regarding people who genuinely enjoyed the game. You quite honestly don't come across as some who can have a calm discussion about the game's merits/flaws. That's real talk.
So, I'm out.
I will give an example moment in the game where I really felt like playing final Fantasy so Spoilers ahead.
You chase the crystal during the whole game and the moment you enter the floor, that leads to the crystal was so special to me. The music, the visuals. Everything was perfect. You enter the room and see the beautiful, powerfull and astonishing crystal in front of you, followed by the iconic final fantasy crystal theme. Simply perfect, finally the journey is over, you stand in front of this mystical object. Since the game didnt tell explicitly what it is, I tried to explain it to myself. Maybe it is the heart of the planet, or the universe?
who knows, it is the solution to your problem and the finish line. The moment you touch it to gain strength to heal the world, ardyn appears and explains his origins and everything.
It might be bare boned but this moment was great. While he explains the situation so calmly as he is, noctis gets sucked into the crystal, helplessly, with his friends standing there and being helpless aswell Ardyns leaves the room and leaves the player with the knowledge that he has a plan and that you have to play with his rules.
who knows, it is the solution to your problem and the finish line. The moment you touch it to gain strength to heal the world, ardyn appears and explains his origins and everything.
It might be bare boned but this moment was great. While he explains the situation so calmly as he is, noctis gets sucked into the crystal, helplessly, with his friends standing there and being helpless aswell Ardyns leaves the room and leaves the player with the knowledge that he has a plan and that you have to play with his rules.
You have the content of my posts and fixate on the tone. You have no argument.
The game sucks and you have no argument.
donutzsick
Member
It's especially funny because he thinks people aren't refuting him because "they can't refute what I'm saying" when it's actually just no one wants to talk to a dick.
You're so much better than me with the insults, yes.
I'm a lifelong FF fan. I've played every single one. XV is my second least-liked behind XIII. To each his own, I suppose.
*shrug*
Mister Megative
Banned
I won't give you an argument, then.
Ten years in the making, what began its troubled development as FF Versus XIII was rebranded as Final Fantasy XV and released this past November. Was it worth the wait? For me, absolutely. I dont have many close friends. I lost my oldest friend to what I think was suicide a few years ago. I only have two truly close buddies I hang out with in my personal life, and my podcast brothers. They constitute my best friends, my bros. So the story of Noctis, on the road with his bros, camping with his bros, fighting alongside his bros, really struck a chord with me. The game is rife with callouts to older Final Fantasy games, which I loved seeing. The combat is some of the best the series has to offer. And youre faced with one of the series best villains, Ardyn, who steals the spotlight whenever he shows up with scene-chewing intensity and an oily, almost snakelike charm. Hes compelling, and in the end you really get a sense for why is the way he is, and what motivates him. Hes totally evil for sure, but unlike Kefka, theres a tragic reason for that evil aside from pure insanity. The games final battle is also one of my favorites, and leaves aside the elaborate, multi-winged divine transformations of final bosses past for something far more personal, yet still grand in scale and scope. I loved it. Yes, there are frustrations to be had in the story. Id have liked more character development for Luna and some of the Imperial personalities (I remember the Emperor showing up literally once the entire game). Certain key story beats happen frustratingly off camera for some reason. But FFXV is greater than the sum of its parts, and stands tall as my second favorite in the series.
See how I did that? I discussed what I loved about the game, mentioned that it's not perfect, and was completely reasonable throughout. At this point, we know you're not capable of the same, so I won't expect anything substantial or meaningful from you. And I won't respond further. Have a good day.
zswordsman
Member
Just killed that sea monster and I have no clue what's going on anymore. This game has major story issues.
Also that boss fight was as bad as the camera problems.
one minute I wake up in a bed, the next freaking ignis is blind and then prompto falls off a train. This game has all sorts of pacing issues
Still not seeing why my specific complaints about the game are so unreasonable, but fine.
You guys complain about my posts being abrasive, but you still seem to be presenting the idea you can't dislike the game without some sort of softening caveat. The game really has no redeeming qualities for me.
You guys complain about my posts being abrasive, but you still seem to be presenting the idea you can't dislike the game without some sort of softening caveat. The game really has no redeeming qualities for me.
Thats what im doing, the waiting game, its not like i dont already have a ton of game to finish from this year.
donutzsick
Member
Oh no, not finding redeeming qualities with the game is fine with me. Actually I don't think anyone said you need to add a "imo" it's obvious it's your opinion and it can find the game to be garbage, no problem. The way you talk about PEOPLE who DID find redeeming qualities in the game is what you are being called out on.
But there is nothing here we can refute. Just subjective opinion and thats okay
no need to refute you. You can believe that but some stuff you mention there is not only subjective, its also weird perception. The soundtrack for instance is nowhere near a movie score. Compare the movie score to the one from the game and youll see the difference. Also saying its bland means that over 800.000 people who clicked on the ifrit song for instance like to listen to bland music.source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQ2fwUOxe0
Going by your avatar, I suspect that you like the soundtrack of FF12, which I think is fantastic too (not as good as FFXV ost though) but analysing the clicks on this 11 years old game on youtube brings me to the conclusion that its not as famous as FFXV OST
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ffXII+ost
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ffXV+ost
There was a previous post that was implying I was stating everything from some supposed place of objectivity, which was and is ridiculous. But fair enough. I see what you're saying. I'm not going to start hunting down posts and naming names, but it really is a little tiring when the usual suspects on the other side always come to threads whining about "haters" and often before they even post.
I always try to actually articulate what I thought about a game, good or bad, because I am (or see myself as) very analytical/critical, so I find that notion of just wanting to dislike something patently insulting. I like Final Fantasy and want it to be good. A lot. This one didn't do it for me, suffice it to say.
But I did come out swinging in this thread pre-emptively and broadly and for that I apologize.
This game is like any other in that you're either good at it or you're not. People complain about potions making it easy, but you don't have to use them. There's a flow to battle that absolutely requires you to be quick with decision making, and smart with your choices, and it really is rewarding when you complete tough battles legit by simply knowing the mechanics, and executing them.
Every FF game has it's quirks with the battle system, but they've all been solid, IMO. The problems with FFXV are vast, and mostly unforgivable, but the battle system is not one of them (camera not withstanding).
OP the story is where the game truly falters, and if you are around chapter 6, the gameplay soon starts to fall off in favor of story, so if that gives you any indication, you may not like what's coming (although I do hear they've patched in some improvements, which I haven't seen yet).
Every FF game has it's quirks with the battle system, but they've all been solid, IMO. The problems with FFXV are vast, and mostly unforgivable, but the battle system is not one of them (camera not withstanding).
OP the story is where the game truly falters, and if you are around chapter 6, the gameplay soon starts to fall off in favor of story, so if that gives you any indication, you may not like what's coming (although I do hear they've patched in some improvements, which I haven't seen yet).
This is really silly evidence considering you didn't seen to account for YouTube's growth or popularity differences then and now.
PhilipDoesMatter
Member
Terrible game. I finished it though for my respect to the series. It is lackluster in every single purpose.
Excuse my quick and dirty way to find out how popular soundtracks are, I didnt want to prove that FFXV ost is better than FFXII with this. Just wanted to show that its everything but not bland considering that so many people love it. The high like rates and the comments speak for itself.
This has been said before but FFXVs soundtrack is great, but its implementation poo. All the best tracks are barely heard, and instead we have to deal with harmonica trash all the time XD
I've said this before but you actually can put some objective criticism and merit into some aspects of a game. Things such as repetitive dungeon music that is on par with Tales of Graces dungeon music or the nonsensical game design decisions that don't mesh well with each other. The execution of the narrative. These all can be objectively measured. Not all portions are viewed through a subjective lens. That being said, it is possible to like a bad game. I like God Eater lol. It's not great. People clearly like FFXV but I think there's a disconnect where they think the game is well designed which it really isn't.
Sadly true for many parts of the game. This perfect imperfection is what breaks this game for many. They do something awesome and break it down by doing something stupid. This goes through the whole concept of the game.
Great action based battlesystem with fancy moves - Bad enemy design that makes most oft the battle system irrelevant or not fitting because to chaotic
Friend Commands to utilize your teams strength during battle - Useless cutscene that removes control from the player and makes the battle less dynamic during these attacks
Friend Attacks that do much damage and look really good at times - randomly executed when attacked from behind instead of giving the player more control
Skilltree system to develop your character during your journey - Only minor differences and way to expensive skills for near to no value in the game
Big open world with some really nice scenery - Some paths are blocked by invisible walls
New Items and interesting HP system during battle - Item menu pauses game and breaks the flow of the battle, also exploitable
Game focusing on companions with unique bonds between them - Dumb as shit and die every 10 seconds (except gladdydaddy, he still runs into everything but has 10 billion HP on level 1)
Hunting system with many special creatures to hunt - No variation in battle except a nice monster model, also the hunting system is wasting time for no reason. Why only allow to accept one hunt at a time is beyond me
Great Photo Feature by prompto which also adds a bit to the actual story - causes your save file to go over 600mb of file size if you save many pictures.
Chocobo riding is fun as hell - Stupid senseless renting and change of controls for no reason during rides. Picking up items while on the chocobo is not possible.
Flying car is amazing - Only way to die in this game
The list goes on and on
You can objectively criticise specific mechanical things, but you can't objectively criticise any art. Final Fantasy XV can be criticised for its specific failings, but as soon as you talk about it as a whole combination of things, a piece of art...well you're kidding yourself if you think you're still able to remain objective.
Thing is people use subjective as a dirty word. Oh that's only your subjective opinion. Well the truth is that some people's subjective opinions are better than others. Its just extremely difficult to argue that. Which is why people try to reduce it down to specific mechanical issues that are measurable. Problem is those mechanical issues don't represent the artistic issues.
AyraSutoraifu
Member
I'm really wondering what SE will do with FFXVI. For me, it will be a defining moment for the series after years of decline. Something like Agni's Philosophy?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU
A FF without or very few side quests would be so awesome. Xenogears did this, it was all story.
A FF without or very few side quests would be so awesome. Xenogears did this, it was all story.
demosthenes
Member
Mirrors my thoughts. Only ff I stopped playing. Don't know if I'll go back.
RedlineRonin
Member
Interesting thoughts, OP.
I'm eager for a PC release.
I feel like I enjoyed it overall but much of that was driven by my nostalgia for the series. It was super cool to see HD Chocobos.
If the PC version is well optimized and there aren't performance issues, and having played through once already, I feel like I'll have a more objective opinion overall that will likely fall more in line with yours.
I'm eager for a PC release.
I feel like I enjoyed it overall but much of that was driven by my nostalgia for the series. It was super cool to see HD Chocobos.
If the PC version is well optimized and there aren't performance issues, and having played through once already, I feel like I'll have a more objective opinion overall that will likely fall more in line with yours.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I got hit a total of 2 times against ifrit in the 40 minutes or so it took to whittle the shitheels health down while being 5 levels under him.
Combat sucks
Your control over Noctis feels like it doesnt know if it wants to be a slow methodical game or a fast paced action game. Noctis has constant animation lock that makes it so you have to commit to an attack, however enemies have next to 0 tells and would require twitch reactions to dodge. This should make combat that is ungodly difficult due to being completely unfair, but instead the game is a joke. Not because you can spam potions, but because the AI is so fucking dumb. Jump a bit and use air attacks and the enemies will flail at the ground below you. Warp strike a gun enemy and all the other ranged enemies take two years to care about you again. Ignore healing teammates and instead "rescue" them when wounded to dodge large boss attacks. Animation lock 15 seconds of invulnerability by activating Gladio's horribly animated whirlwind attack.
There is no high skill satisfying maneuver here. There is no skillfully executing anything. The game is piss easy, in spite of its terribly designed combat.
But I've also played other games without anything approaching good combat and they were redeemed by story, or world, or exploration, but FFXV had nothing. The story was a disjointed uninteresting mess. The bro's interactions made 0 fucking sense half the time. Gladio's ridiculous freak out before Titan being the most egregious example I can think of. The side quests were atrocious. The car was a great excuse to get up and make a sandwich. Chocobos controls were bafflingly mapped. Ally AI was worthless.
My hopes were pretty low going into the game after the demos, but the finished product turned out worse than I could've imagined.
And to the title of this thread, goddamnit just open the fucking door, dont fucking jump. The prompt was fucking there.
This is not a good argument.
You can't be serious. This is like saying "if you feel like Dark Souls is too easy then dont use Estus Flasks." Like... lmao???
lucablight
Member
Personally I found the last guardian ending to be too Hollywood and lacking in subtlety especially for a Ueda game. The FFXV ending is perfect. The way the lines are delivered and the understated interactions between the characters are amazing. They managed to convey a powerful and emotional scene without being overly melodramatic or hammy. Yes, it would have been nice if the rest of the game had built up to that moment the way we would have liked but as a standalone scene....what can I say? It really is the best.
The Car is hilarious in this game.
The car was a huge part of marketing and is a huge part of the game,yet they couldnt design a car that drives freely and feels actually good to use.It was insanely tedious.
They actually had to address this a patch months after release. 😂
I mean..driving cars is a super standard technical expectation of open world games now adays. It was so strange when angry joe couldnt actually steer or properly accelerate the damn car.
The car was a huge part of marketing and is a huge part of the game,yet they couldnt design a car that drives freely and feels actually good to use.It was insanely tedious.
They actually had to address this a patch months after release. 😂
I mean..driving cars is a super standard technical expectation of open world games now adays. It was so strange when angry joe couldnt actually steer or properly accelerate the damn car.
Definitely would not call it the best, but it was a nice moment nonetheless.
So just finished FFXV today. In my opinion it's story has exactly the same problems as XIII. You understand generally what's going on but a lot of the lore (the stuff that explains what is going on) isn't explained, and sometimes the character motivations don't make much sense. To me the only difference is that XIII is more melodramatic whereas XV micro drama with lightheartedness.
Anyway it's interesting to me that the story telling issues are so similar. It suggests to me that it's not a Tabata issue, but someone maybe in event planning that's been there from the start? Or it could be a translation issue.
Anyway it's interesting to me that the story telling issues are so similar. It suggests to me that it's not a Tabata issue, but someone maybe in event planning that's been there from the start? Or it could be a translation issue.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I feel you. I adored that trailer and it was just the stylish cinematic drama that I wanted from FF, but it really was just another dumb product in their constellation of XV spinoff junk.
I also feel really angry about the 2013 re-reveal trailer. That's what sold me on XV, and it's not in the game. All of those really dramatic Uncharted-like action sequences = gone. I know games change in development, but that feels like a pitch for a fundamentally different game.
Don't know for sure, but there was a Dev leak that said the story had been radically changed less than a year before release. A twist in that story was going to be that
noctis killed luna before the game started, but didn't remember doing it or why
Anyway my theory is that omen was commissioned before the change in story, and then repurposed to represent a general sense of Dread, and maybe what would happen if he didn't step up to his duties.
Borboleta Amarela
Member
Just finished it yesterday. I have to say it was a disappointment for me also. I hadn't played a FF since FF X and went in with no hype whatsoever.
Well, let's say I didn't really understand anything about the story until the very end. The ending was cool but expected.
The combat system is terrible. It's just a giant mess.
Anyway, music is solid and the bros give it a special feeling. Maybe a few years from now people will like it more. I think it's possible that the hate comes from it being such a different game than the rest of the series.
For me, it's very difficult to call it "good".
Well, let's say I didn't really understand anything about the story until the very end. The ending was cool but expected.
The combat system is terrible. It's just a giant mess.
Anyway, music is solid and the bros give it a special feeling. Maybe a few years from now people will like it more. I think it's possible that the hate comes from it being such a different game than the rest of the series.
For me, it's very difficult to call it "good".
If this is true I... don't know what to think.
They knew the story had changed, but still went with this trailer ?
The more I hear about FFXV the more I hate it.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Maybe you don't know this since you haven't played one since X, but every FF is quite different from one another now. XII and XIII broke the mound just as much.
PshycoNinja
Member
Because of an unverified rumor and speculation?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I don't think you can take that scene as "standalone" when it the key part of the scene is how is built through the game.
I don't feel TLG has a too "hollywood" ending, I think is closer to a Hideo Miyazaki ending or something similar. Is powerful because is melodramatic, because considering how the game builts your relationship with Trico, it can't be another way, also gets extra points for being interactive.
The main problem I have with XV ending scene, is that It didn't convey to me that emotion, because it wasn't built as well as it was in TLG.
TLG ending works so well, because how the game builds it up to that point.
Also, I can put in front of XV many other game endings. Is simply no that good.