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[MeshuggahMan]

I love the game and all but I have a bigger question. Has anyone who posted a "TLOU is awful and gameplay and Joel is a monster I can't relate to and etc.." had their mind changed after discussing with a few people? Maybe made them look at the game or characters differently than what they originally thought?

 

[Ricky_R]

The story of the Last of Us would have worked with two changes:
1. We don't fight the rebels at the end and we have no information similar to Ellie.
One of the worst of the story, was the forced decision to save Ellie against her wish. I feel like the developers and me have a clear misunderstanding. The journey makes it clear, that the world is shit show and I was all in with Eliie, taking this chance to save the world. I guess, the developers actually wanted to show, that people working together and loving each other can overcome even the harshest environments. But there were many points in the story, where this wasn't enough to save them. The game forced Joel's opinion on me, what wasn't elegant at all and I hated the long final fight because of it.

The game wasn't about choice. The game is about Joel, whether you like it or not. I actually loved the fact that Joel made the decision for her, and I definitely related to it. I would've done the same if it was my daughter, no questions asked.

It's completely fine to not enjoy the game for what it was, but wanting the game to be something that it's not or to give you choices that were never meant to exist, is a recipe for disappointment.

 

[DancingNalwood]

I'd never play a ND game for the first time on anything higher than hard. Partly because they're actually hard, partly because it would throw the pacing off completely.

Stick with the game though, even if you don't want to drop the difficulty. When I was playing it the first time I was enjoying it, and it has some amazing moments, but I wouldn't have said it was the greatest game of all time. Then I hit winter and it blew my mind.

 

[Metal B]

I love the game and all but I have a bigger question. Has anyone who posted a "TLOU is awful and gameplay and Joel is a monster I can't relate to and etc.." had their mind changed after discussing with a few people? Maybe made them look at the game or characters differently than what they originally thought?

First this is the internet, so no. Second it is really hard to change a first impression in general. Third The Last of Us isn't very deep (you don't need to be deep to be fantastic piece of art), so there is no hidden information, which can turn a point around and change the preception of somebody.

 

[goonergaz]

I feel sad for OP - it had some really sticky points on the hardest level, even for someone (like me) who had played it a couple times on PS3 and then again on PS4 on the hardest difficulty, as a result they are not enjoying one of last gens best games (and IMHO one of the best this gen).

As mentioned, lower the difficulty and just 'enjoy' the game. Not sure why the haters feel the need to come out and bash this game each time someone has an issue with it...each to their own, but let's face it - look at the reviews and player feedback, you are in a minority - I mean, I don't get the love for Halo but I'm not going to start bashing it...it's just 'not for me'.

 

[Strangelove77]

I love the game and all but I have a bigger question. Has anyone who posted a "TLOU is awful and gameplay and Joel is a monster I can't relate to and etc.." had their mind changed after discussing with a few people? Maybe made them look at the game or characters differently than what they originally thought?

That's really not the type of game TLOU is. I love it, but what you get is what you get. There isn't anything to decipher. I think that's why the game is as celebrated as it is. You don't have to tell people to read some in-game documents or read a complimentary comic or whatever. You can do that, but the game is the same.
If you don't like the story or the gameplay, then you don't.

 

[SomTervo]

But We cant just cherry pick, the stuff which is good and ignore the rest. There is a big difference be having a good idea or intentions and actually having good execution. The quality of a story can change very strongly depending on the director, which happens all the time in movies. We talk about The Last of Us in a whole and this is a big problem of the game (Naughty Dog always fucks up their endings, it's crazy).

Mate, I'm not the one cherry picking. You are. You came in with complaints about the character/story and then when I addressed those you turned it into a complaint about the level design/pacing, saying that "the part went on too long".

 

[Athreous]

I stopped reading when I read "bad gameplay"

 

[lukeskymac]

Survivor is the best difficulty. Git fucken good, OP.

Spoiler

This wouldn't be a TLoU thread without "gameplay isn't that good" posts right on the first page, would it?

 

[MeshuggahMan]

First this is the internet, so no. Second it is really hard to change a first impression in general. Third The Last of Us isn't very deep (you don't need to be deep to be fantastic piece of art), so there is no hidden information, which can turn a point around and change the preception of somebody.

Not trying to change anyone's mind or anything here at all. Purely curious question. I was asking because in these back and forth discussions I commonly find myself thinking "huh I never thought of it like that". I mean obvious example the ending had me kind of "what the hell that's it?!?" but after talking to people I sort of went to thinking about everything that was going on at the very end there. Perhaps I'm just not very smart when it comes to characters though =p

 

[DarkConfidant]

First time playing through Last of Us on PS4. I've been playing it on Survivor

Well, there it is.

 

[Camp Freddie]

Coincidentally, I finally completed the game a couple of days ago.

I think it's fantastic, especially the story. Unlike the GAF hardcore, I like it on normal mode.
It's a very hard game, especially with the instadeaths from clickers and the way it's quite easy to alert more people than you can handle.
Going survivor mode for a second playthough would be cool, but it's not like normal mode is carebear story mode.
Normal mode also lets you fuck up a bit, rather than demanding perfect stealth/100% headshots. The mixture of cautious stealth and panicky chaos works really well on normal. Not knowing what to expect on the 1st playthrough adds a lot of tension since it makes you really nervous if you get low on ammo.

Unlike some people, I found Joel to be a great character and I loved the ending. Joel's final lie to protect Ellie's innocence is a brilliant note to end on.

Even though the doctors weren't armed or an immediate threat, it's really no surprise that Joel would kill them.

I only killed one doctor. He was threatening me with a scalpel and refusing to back down.
I don't think that killing a girl for "the greater good" makes the doctors innocent victims of Joel's violence.

 

[QaaQer]

I did not enjoy playing the last of us, it was a slog for me. Some of the writing felt real, though. The giraffe bit made me feel like Anton Ego..

The DLC was what I wanted the main game to be. TBH, I'd recommend just playing that.

 

[TheSeks]

You're not wrong, OP. You're forgetting that you can Shiv the Zombies or whatever they call them from the front now and then due to the game glitching and making you think that's possible to do, but NOPE because Naughty Dog thinks not being able to rush one zombie and kill them with an insta-kill weapon is a good idea so gameplay mechanic-wise you shouldn't be able to do that despite the game glitching out and making you think so.

Reworded: Shivs from the back and sides only on zombies was stupid, especially when one grabs you and Joel auto-shivs from the front making you think that was possible. It's possible to do manually yourself now and then due to the game glitching out but the game makes it fucking impossible to tell if you'll connect or not due to the game design NOT wanting you to do that.

The story of the Last of Us would have worked with two changes:
1. We don't fight the rebels at the end and we have no information similar to Ellie.
One of the worst of the story, was the forced decision to save Ellie against her wish. I feel like the developers and me have a clear misunderstanding. The journey makes it clear, that the world is shit show and I was all in with Eliie, taking this chance to save the world. I guess, the developers actually wanted to show, that people working together and loving each other can overcome even the harshest environments. But there were many points in the story, where this wasn't enough to save them. The game forced Joel's opinion on me, what wasn't elegant at all and I hated the long final fight because of it.

2. Have Ellie leaving or fighting Joel at the end
Being such a selfish asshole like Joel needed to have consequences. He lied to her (which she clearly knows) and he became a mentally unstable person, which she can't trust and possible would drag her down. The game ends at the worst possible point and didn't felt concluded. If it's "open to interpretation", than it would be inconsistent. The story-telling up to this point was very straightforward with both characters. It just felt like sequel-bait.

And to be on topic, yes, the gameplay is very mediocre with some very bad examples of level-design.
I tried to shoot the guy with the MG, before Ellie and the two brothers would walk down the road, through the window, he was shooting. Turned out, there was nobody their and a ghost was shooting the MG. The guy was gone, so they could play the cut-scene, where he attacks you from behind. Very weird decision.
Also at the part, which is the main point of the OP, I could not continue the game, since I couldn't open the door at the end and enemies were spawning infinitely. Turned out, you HADE TO FAIL at stealth, so that Eliie can shoot somebody, so that the following cut-scene actually make sense. The gameplay truly was the bitch for the story...

Also I agree with this. The ending was ultra-shitty as you had no choice on if you wanted to Papa Bear Joel (save her) or let her die for the sake of the world (what I wanted to do, especially as the game BEATS YOU OVER THE HEAD at the start to allow that). Nope, you're auto-forced to do a few more battles just to save her for an emotional ending that had no impact on me because at that point I couldn't have gave a shit about Ellie. I completed my job, let her die.

 

[PeskyToaster]

You don't even mention the god-tier multiplayer.

 

[martino]

The gameplay, for me, is above average. There are better games out there in that aspect.

What TLOU shines for many people is the story, presentation and the characters.

this and this is true for whole ND stuff

 

[lukeskymac]

It's mid-2016 and there are still people who don't get TLoU's ending. How can we complain about low video game writing standards when people fail to grasp something as simple as TLoU?

 

[Russ T]

You're not wrong, OP. You're forgetting that you can Shiv the Zombies or whatever they call them from the front now and then due to the game glitching and making you think that's possible to do, but NOPE because Naughty Dog thinks not being able to rush one zombie and kill them with an insta-kill weapon is a good idea so gameplay mechanic-wise you shouldn't be able to do that despite the game glitching out and making you think so.

Reworded: Shivs from the back and sides only on zombies was stupid, especially when one grabs you and Joel auto-shivs from the front making you think that was possible. It's possible to do manually yourself now and then due to the game glitching out but the game makes it fucking impossible to tell if you'll connect or not due to the game design NOT wanting you to do that.

I was able to reliably - as in 100% of the time - able to shiv a zombie from the front, provided they weren't in the "alerted" state.

I was able to reliably - as in 100% of the time - able to shiv a CLICKER when ATTACKED from the front, because that is a mechanic of the game to prevent the otherwise instant death.

I was able to reliably - as in 100% of the time - one-hit kill any zombie, alerted or otherwise, from any angle, with a modified melee weapon.

There are literally mechanics in the game for all of these situations. If you weren't prepared for it, that's your fault.

 

[TheSeks]

It's mid-2016 and there are still people who don't get TLoU's ending. How can we complain about low video game writing standards when people fail to grasp something as simple as TLoU?

JOEL SUDDENLY CARES ABOUT ELLIE BECAUSE SHE'S HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER FOR HIS REAL ONE WHO DIED AT THE FIRST TEN MINUTES OF THE GAME! SO WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU THE PLAYER TO PLAY HIS ASSAULT (even if you don't care about Ellie! lol!) BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO MULTIPLE ENDINGS BECAUSE THAT'S BAD!

Wow, such brilliant writing!

I was able to reliably - as in 100% of the time - able to shiv a zombie from the front, provided they weren't in the "alerted" state.

I was able to reliably - as in 100% of the time - able to shiv a CLICKER when ATTACKED from the front, because that is a mechanic of the game to prevent the otherwise instant death.

I was able to reliably - as in 100% of the time - one-hit kill any zombie, alerted or otherwise, from any angle, with a modified melee weapon.

There are literally mechanics in the game for all of these situations. If you weren't prepared for it, that's your fault.

Then the game must put them into an alert state as I could bumrush them and go 50/50 on being able to shiv them. At that point it's like "well why should I bother with crafting these shivs if the fucking Zombies can't be killed instantly and cleanly?"

 

[Subtervotion]

Echoing what a lot of others have said, ya goofed on playing survivor first. Hard is a totally reasonable mode to play on first but anything beyond that (in any game really) is most likely a bad idea. Those modes are meant to be an extra challenge for people who enjoyed the first playthrough and want to have another slice but with an extra mixed in.

On the subject of gameplay, I love it. The way it synergies with the narrative is great. I love that you have little ammo, every bullet feels precious. I love how stealth play can work but can easily escalate to a gunfight.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

JOEL SUDDENLY CARES ABOUT ELLIE BECAUSE SHE'S HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER WHO DIED AT THE FIRST TEN MINUTES OF THE GAME! SO WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU THE PLAYER TO PLAY HIS ASSAULT (even if you don't care about Ellie! lol!) BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO MULTIPLE ENDINGS BECAUSE THAT'S BAD!

Wow, such brilliant writing!

The game is designed from the ground up to be a linear, cinematic experience. This is not the game to be playing if you want choice.

 

[Russ T]

JOEL SUDDENLY CARES ABOUT ELLIE BECAUSE SHE'S HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER FOR HIS REAL ONE WHO DIED AT THE FIRST TEN MINUTES OF THE GAME! SO WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU THE PLAYER TO PLAY HIS ASSAULT (even if you don't care about Ellie! lol!) BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO MULTIPLE ENDINGS BECAUSE THAT'S BAD!

Wow, such brilliant writing!

"suddenly"?

they literally get to know each other over the course of like half a year, and you can see the relationship developing as you play

or maybe you skipped the cutscenes and played with the volume down and subtitles off??

Then the game must put them into an alert state as I could bumrush them and go 50/50 on being able to shiv them. At that point it's like "well why should I bother with crafting these shivs if the fucking Zombies can't be killed instantly and cleanly?"

yes if you goddamn charge at a zombie it puts them in the alert state because they hear you

this is taught to you in literally the first encounter you have with them

if you wanted to reliably kill zombies from the front, you should've had a modified weapon - something the game TELLS you




it's kinda fun being able to use the word "literally" in a legitimate fashion so many times!

 

[TheSeks]

The game is designed from the ground up to be a linear, cinematic experience. This is not the game to be playing if you want choice.

I'm not asking for choice in anything but the ending.

Joel suddenly caring about Ellie (despite being an asshole to her for about 70% of the game, until she runs away from him and his brother) was stupid. It came out of left-field because all of a sudden Ellie throws his daughter into his face and that somehow makes him care about Ellie.

Also the fact that Ellie was willing to die to save the world and the fact that hey she could save the world (possibly, we don't know if we don't try!) should've allowed the player to either let her die/sacrifice herself for the sake of the world (thereby getting an ending that doesn't do a Last of Us 2: Electric Shivaloo) or let you care (if you're one that actually cared about her) and gave you the ending we got.

if you wanted to reliably kill zombies from the front, you should've had a modified weapon - something the game TELLS you

Shiv + Shiv metal bat or whatever it is (nailbat?) 100% of the time thanks for the PS3 shiv pick-up glitch. The game never gave me a 100% reliable way to rush them and kill them. Instead you had to sneak around and hope they would back turn instead of just clearing them easily like every other enemy (read: the humans). It was a stupid "challenge" mechanic to try to force stealth on you when the zombie was the literal last thing alive after you shivved every other humanoid in the room.

 

[Russ T]

what the fuck are you talking about

 

[Subtervotion]

To everyone complaining about the ending:

You are not Joel, you play from his perspective. You don't get to choose for him.

One of the best moments was having to kill the doctor. I didn't want to personally, but Joel wasn't leaving that room without confrontation.

 

[17 Seconds]

the game is a pandering snoozefest for elitist types who think video games are a sacred art.

 

[Subtervotion]

Seks, it sounds like you got a real chip on your shoulder with this game. We get it, you didn't like it. But everything you're saying are just your opinions, and not ones held by the majority either.

Joel didn't hate Ellie for 70% of the game. In fact he started kind of liking her by time they got to Bill's. The game also has time skips.

 

[PeskyToaster]

What kind of adult would let a dumb kid decide such a thing for themselves?

 

[Neoleo2143]

I would have believed that the fire flies could save the world if they weren't portrayed as utterly incompetent throughout the game. The whole premise of the game exists because this organization was incompetent and couldn't transport one little girl and had to resort to what they should see as utter randos.

Joel's decision did not screw over humanity, the fire flies were already going to do that by cutting open a girl who is the only hope of saving humanity from the infection. What makes the ending ambiguous is Ellie's reaction to Joel not telling her the truth, beyond that Joel is squarely in the gray area instead of the black area that the ending would have you believe.

 

[fabricated backlash]

As much as I liked the game and especially the ending (probably one of the most honest endings in a game ever), the AI and encounter design is hot garbage.

 

[Nuu]

Beat the game a few weeks ago.

Probably the most over-rated game I've ever played. Merely "above-average" in both gameplay and story.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I would have believed that the fire flies could save the world if they weren't portrayed as utterly incompetent throughout the game. The whole premise of the game exists because this organization was incompetent and couldn't transport one little girl and had to resort to what they should see as utter randos.

Joel's decision did not screw over humanity, the fire flies were already going to do that by cutting open a girl who is the only hope of saving humanity from the infection. What makes the ending ambiguous is Ellie's reaction to Joel not telling her the truth, beyond that Joel is squarely in the gray area instead of the black area that the ending would have you believe.

The fireflies were full of shit. With Marlene spewing the most BS per second. Saving humanity... lol... Given that they barely manage to hold a single hospital, how would they even start to begin distributing a vaccine, when it was openly stated, that it's not even sure they could develop one, even after killing Ellie.

And what then? Would the roaming bandits suddenly stop killing and ambushing people or allow an arbitrary organization to take over control? Would the fireflies rise to power by monopolizing the vaccine to force the newly formed tribes and gangs to surrender?

Joel was selfish, but he also knew that Marlene was full of shit and simply wouldn't stand losing Ellie to the delirious aspirations of an idiotic idealist that didn't think farther than she could spit.

For me this ending finally did away the ridiculous moralist BS that game stories always peddle and actually delivered a human portrayal, instead of some embarassing wish fullfillment.

 

[Weiss]

Much as I've been ripping on the story and Joel especially, we really should not have gotten a choice. It's not our story, it's Joel's, even though Joel sucks.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I played the same way and simply had a combination of different experiences along with a different perspective of the same experiences. Everyone has a different threshhold of annoyance with difficulties.

Play however you can best enjoy the game, then try a higher difficulty after. Not that you necessesarily are, but don't feel obligated to play things the way other people do.

the game is a pandering snoozefest for elitist types who think video games are a sacred art.

Or you know, just a competent enough survival game even for people who don't think games should be film. There's a certain irony in looking down your nose at people who just happen to not think game appreciation should be binary.

 

[SomTervo]

Also I agree with this. The ending was ultra-shitty as you had no choice on if you wanted to Papa Bear Joel (save her) or let her die for the sake of the world (what I wanted to do, especially as the game BEATS YOU OVER THE HEAD at the start to allow that). Nope, you're auto-forced to do a few more battles just to save her for an emotional ending that had no impact on me because at that point I couldn't have gave a shit about Ellie. I completed my job, let her die.

The game isn't about your story. It's about Joel. Joel did what Joel did. You have to live with it.

Much as I've been ripping on the story and Joel especially, we really should not have gotten a choice. It's not our story, it's Joel's

Glad we agree on that at least.

PS did you enjoy ignoring the long response to you that I put a lot of effort into on the last page?

 

[lukeskymac]

JOEL SUDDENLY CARES ABOUT ELLIE BECAUSE SHE'S HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER FOR HIS REAL ONE WHO DIED AT THE FIRST TEN MINUTES OF THE GAME! SO WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU THE PLAYER TO PLAY HIS ASSAULT (even if you don't care about Ellie! lol!) BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO MULTIPLE ENDINGS BECAUSE THAT'S BAD!

Wow, such brilliant writing!

See, it's really embarrassing.

 

[LTWood12]

i imagine most games suck if you play them on the highest difficulty the first playthrough.

 

[Weiss]

The game isn't about your story. It's about Joel. Joel did what Joel did. You have to live with it.



Glad we agree on that at least.

PS did you enjoy ignoring the long response to you that I put a lot of effort into on the last page?

Since this seems to be of such monumental importance to you:

You seem to think "humanity" means that we need Joel to be nice or something, and like what usually happens when I talk about how Joel is a garbage protagonist, you missed the point. Joel never acts in any way that suggests he even registers that the people around him are anything but vending machines he can bark at for favours or alternatively murder if the itch comes up.

It's not a matter of being an asshole, it's that he is such an asshole that I'm incapable of believing he's actually human. He's just another gunhappy video game lead who rescues the princess from the castle in end.

 

[Russ T]

You seem to think "humanity" means that we need Joel to be nice or something, and like what usually happens when I talk about how Joel is a garbage protagonist, you missed the point. Joel never acts in any way that suggests he even registers that the people around him are anything but vending machines he can bark at for favours or alternatively murder if the itch comes up.

I mean that's just not true at all. It's provably false. He does show signs of actually being happy to see his brother. He later insists that his brother take Ellie, one could (and I did) insinuate because he has grown fond of Ellie but still hasn't accepted that he actually cares for someone to that degree again. There are plenty of signs leading up to this point of the game that he does care about her, and this is the tipping point when he decides to fully commit. He also clearly cared about Tess, etc.

 

[RustyNails]

People that want choices, open world, options, etc are approaching the game from wrong frame of mind. This is not your story. It's Ellie/Joel's. We have no input on Ellie/Joel's agency, and that's perfectly fine. If you still want input over the protag's choices, well Witcher 3 is pretty good when it comes to that. But dont blame TLoU for wanting to tell a story about Joel and his relationship with Ellie.

 

[SDR-UK]

Has anybody put any stock into the fact that the Fireflies are totally incompetent? The first time we see them, Marlene is near death and thus needs to leave the job to Joel and Tess. We're supposed to meet them at the Capitol Building and find that they have been overrun and killed. The University? Overrun again. Not only that but one of the Fireflies was so incompetent that he got bitten by a monkey they were testing on. Incompetence runs high amongst the Fireflies... And we're supposed to believe that they could save humanity?

 

[supernormal]

For me this ending finally did away the ridiculous moralist BS that game stories always peddle and actually delivered a human portrayal, instead of some embarassing wish fullfillment.

I was thinking about what to comment in response to some not satisfied with the ending but this pretty much hits the nail on the head. Of course their is also the fact that it's an ending that is absolutely true to the characters they created. Having Joel sacrifice Ellie at the end, or maybe not even that, just actually telling the truth would have been very out of character for him and even for the actual world they were trying to build.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Has anybody put any stock into the fact that the Fireflies are totally incompetent? The first time we see them, Marlene is near death and thus needs to leave the job to Joel and Tess. We're supposed to meet them at the Capitol Building and find that they have been overrun and killed. The University? Overrun again. Not only that but one of the Fireflies was so incompetent that he got bitten by a monkey they were testing on. Incompetence runs high amongst the Fireflies... And we're supposed to believe that they could save humanity?

Also what is saving humanity even supposed to mean? Would a cure for the corticeps funghi even matter? Let alone the impossible logistics of inoculating enough people to create an immune shield for society to rebuild... where would they rebuild? With what people?

And why on fucking earth would any of the now self governed Gangs agree to giving up autonomy?

For all the crap the game pulls in some of it's hammy dialogue that sometimes comes closer to Oscar Bait kitsch, the ending is undoubtedly it's strongest and most honest parts.
And I applaud ND for delivering such an honest ending that actually depicts both Joel and Ellie as persons, rather than some boring pawns that serve some unrealistic wish fullfillment.

 

[daripad]

I'm doing my first playthrough on Grounded. I'm at

Spoiler

the Bloater at the high school fight

and I think I'm doing ok so far. The gameplay is great, it feels like a great horror game, reminds me a bit of Dead Space, actually.

 

[joecanada]

JOEL SUDDENLY CARES ABOUT ELLIE BECAUSE SHE'S HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER FOR HIS REAL ONE WHO DIED AT THE FIRST TEN MINUTES OF THE GAME! SO WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU THE PLAYER TO PLAY HIS ASSAULT (even if you don't care about Ellie! lol!) BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO MULTIPLE ENDINGS BECAUSE THAT'S BAD!

Wow, such brilliant writing!

Do you yell this in movie theatres too? Not every game has to give you all the choices you want, the whole point of the entire game was that you have to do things you may not like or agree with, and that yes Joel is an asshole who you play. Also he didn't suddenly care about her, he used her to replace his own daughter in his life... greed, selfishness, etc. what the hell does the player caring about Ellie have to do with anything? Like at all? are you proposing that a choice would be just to let her die at the beginning and carry on with an entirely different game?

also he probably legit cared about her as well but mostly for himself. and the story developed over hours of gameplay.

in other words, you missed the entire point of the game and the plot.

The game was really ahead of it's time. Look at Rick in walking dead, his character was the gallant sheriff who has now quickly degraded into the heartless survivalist, that scene where he drives right by the hitchhiker on a trip and on the way back he's being eaten is so telling in the spiral down ....

 

[Memento]

Oh. My. Lord.

Some people here (especially one specific guy) talking shit about the ending because he didnt have a CHOICE to make.

JESUS. FUCKING. CHRIST.

You lost the entire point of the game if you think you should have been able to make a choice in the ending.

 

[Moon Presence]

Pittsburgh is the worst section of the game by a large distance.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Since this seems to be of such monumental importance to you:

You seem to think "humanity" means that we need Joel to be nice or something, and like what usually happens when I talk about how Joel is a garbage protagonist, you missed the point. Joel never acts in any way that suggests he even registers that the people around him are anything but vending machines he can bark at for favours or alternatively murder if the itch comes up.

It's not a matter of being an asshole, it's that he is such an asshole that I'm incapable of believing he's actually human. He's just another gunhappy video game lead who rescues the princess from the castle in end.

Certainly a unique perspective on his character. The cues for why he acts the way he does are telegraphed throughout the game, I'm assuming they were either too predictable or too poorly delivered for them to resonate with you.

My take was that years of survival and loss rendered him more "feral" and certainly racked him with PTSD. His behavior was less than "civilized" and the world around him demanded as much. At the end, he makes a human decision against losing another daughter yet in accordance with the character he has become and the one you have been playing. You're not supposed to like it, you're supposed to weigh the decision as whether human nature and love justify condemning the species and whether civilization deserves to be salvaged at any cost. It's a conscious decision to leave the player feeling betrayed and unsatisfied unless they attempt to see things from Joel's perspective. Whether it's successful at this is clearly debateable, but I felt the intent was delivered well enough. I think seeing it as essentially Mario stomping Goombas is a tad reductive.

 

[Sande]

The AI is wonky at times but still among the best in gaming. There are a couple of encounters that kind of break when you don't complete them precisely the way they intended you to, but that's about it. Mostly it's just phenomenal and crazy fun to play.

The "TLOU (and Uncharted...) have bad gameplay" narrative is hilarious. It might not be your cup of tea but it's pretty much unrivaled in what it's going for.

 

[Nappuccino]

Bioware and Telltale have ruined story focused games, apparently.