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[GreenMonkey]

I played this on hard and forgot how to do the super hearing trick. Decided I didn't need it and played the whole game without it. Just the right difficulty. But then again I like games like DMC and Dark Souls and hate, hate easy modern games.

As far as the ending, fuck the doctors and the folks supporting them, the logic behind getting a cure out of Ellie was pretty fucking terrible considering the cost. Assurance of a cure wasn't even likely.

 

[DISSESHOWEDO]

JOEL SUDDENLY CARES ABOUT ELLIE BECAUSE SHE'S HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER FOR HIS REAL ONE WHO DIED AT THE FIRST TEN MINUTES OF THE GAME! SO WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU THE PLAYER TO PLAY HIS ASSAULT (even if you don't care about Ellie! lol!) BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO MULTIPLE ENDINGS BECAUSE THAT'S BAD!

Wow, such brilliant writing!

The bolded, have you actually played the game or did you watch it in youtube! Personally i think it's the second as you have must fast forwarded some chapters!

As for the topic. got all trophies for both PS4 and PS3! The hardest mode is where the gameplay shines! As for the story, loved every second if it.

 

[Weiss]

Certainly a unique perspective on his character. The cues for why he acts the way he does are telegraphed throughout the game, I'm assuming they were either too predictable or too poorly delivered for them to resonate with you.

My take was that years of survival and loss rendered him more "feral" and certainly racked him with PTSD. His behavior was less than "civilized" and the world around him demanded as much. At the end, he makes a human decision against losing another daughter yet in accordance with the character he has become and the one you have been playing. You're not supposed to like it, you're supposed to weigh the decision as whether human nature and love justify condemning the species and whether civilization deserves to be salvaged at any cost. It's a conscious decision to leave the player feeling betrayed and unsatisfied unless they attempt to see things from Joel's perspective. Whether it's successful at this is clearly debateable, but I felt the intent was delivered well enough. I think seeing it as essentially Mario stomping Goombas is a tad reductive.

See, why can't more folks be like you?

I liked the ending as much as I could without being really invested in Joel's character, but, yeah, I did fully believe that Joel would do do what he did, and I really disagree with the idea that a choice would have improved things.

In fact to give a piece of praise, I felt it was, thematically, completely appropriate that Joel would ultimately rob Ellie of her choice.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Honestly my biggest issue with the ending sequence, and really big parts of TLOU in general is while the game never condones his violence there is no sense of serious consequence to his actions because everything is so fucking gamey. The guy is literally going through groups of people with so much absurd stamina to do whatever it is he needs to do without demonstrating any real super human abilities. "Then he killed all the guys somehow" is horrible fucking writing. You'd have to cut out so much combat in a TLOU movie to make it work not just to trim down filler but to avoid critics pointing out that his actions are impossible to relate with in the first place because absolutely no one could make the choices he's making to begin with.

Joel is almost never once forced to deal with his limitations and it weakens the game's entire narrative imo.

Unless you want to count a scripted scene where he suffers what should absolutely be a fatal injury and survives anyway only to then go another killing rampage to save his surrogate daughter. Amazing writing.

 

[Russ T]

Killing sprees are easy in easy.

Killing sprees never happen in grounded.

Not saying you're wrong - lord knows lots of game stories could use less killing - but there is a way to play that doesn't involve killing everybody you see. Sometimes you're forced into a situation, though, which is kinda lame.

 

[letmetrythisname]

It has a blockbuster budget and a story with "emotional appeal." That's why it's acclaimed. The gameplay (when it's there) is some of the worst I've put up with in a stealth game.

 

[lukeskymac]

It has a blockbuster budget and a story with "emotional appeal." That's why it's acclaimed. The gameplay (when it's there) is some of the worst I've put up with in a stealth game.

Don't worry, [insert a game you like here] is some of the worst I've put up with in a [genre] game.

Boy, it sure is easy to make statements when you're not going to bother elaborating on them!

 

[Comfort Jones]

Killing sprees are easy in easy.

Killing sprees never happen in grounded.

Not saying you're wrong - lord knows lots of game stories could use less killing - but there is a way to play that doesn't involve killing everybody you see. Sometimes you're forced into a situation, though, which is kinda lame.

I kill just as many people regardless of difficulty. That ending sequence in its entirety is just god awful fucking writing from whatever angle you'd like to approach it. There's absolutely nothing you can relate to in his actions because in that moment he ceases to be a person and becomes a videogame character killing generic enemies in a generic combat sequence.

I remember people claiming they'd do the same for their daughter and I say bullshit you would. You'd be hopelessly lost as you immediately realize there's nothing you can do but ofc that's something a bit too heavy for TLOU to tackle seeing how the story sorts literally every problem out with violence.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Honestly my biggest issue with the ending sequence, and really big parts of TLOU in general is while the game never condones his violence there is no sense of serious consequence to his actions because everything is so fucking gamey. The guy is literally going through groups of people with so much absurd stamina to do whatever it is he needs to do without demonstrating any real super human abilities. "Then he killed all the guys somehow" is horrible fucking writing. You'd have to cut out so much combat in a TLOU movie to make it work not just to trim down filler but to avoid critics pointing out that his actions are impossible to relate with in the first place because absolutely no one could make the choices he's making to begin with.

Joel is almost never once forced to deal with his limitations and it weakens the game's entire narrative imo.

Unless you want to count a scripted scene where he suffers what should absolutely be a fatal injury and survives anyway only to then go another killing rampage to save his surrogate daughter. Amazing writing.

Yea I really hope there isn't as much as a disconnect between the world that they try to set up and gameplay itself. ND always says during interviews that we're playing as "just normal people" but honestly Nathan Drake and Joel are straight up superhumans who just happen to be wearing tshirts outside of when the story says "except at this part where they get hurt." Even more so when you actually see the "normal" characters who're in games these days. Lee from the WD can barely survive a fist fight, and wouldn't last a day in the world of TLOU.

 

[Russ T]

I kill just as many people regardless of difficulty. That ending sequence in its entirety is just god awful fucking writing from whatever angle you'd like to approach it. There's absolutely nothing you can relate to in his actions because in that moment he ceases to be a person and becomes a videogame character killing generic enemies in a generic combat sequence.

I remember people claiming they'd do the same for their daughter and I say bullshit you would. You'd be hopelessly lost as you immediately realize there's nothing you can do but ofc that's something a bit too heavy for TLOU to tackle seeing how the story sorts literally every problem out with violence.

Actually...

I literally made it through the entire final chapter without killing anyone but the doctor he kills in the cutscene.

:3

They give you the tools (smoke bomb, bottles/bricks for noise, etc.) to get through without too much harm if you really need to.

EDIT: Also, I might be wrong, now that I think about it. I probably stealth killed a few dudes just to make my life easier.

 

[Memento]

It has a blockbuster budget and a story with "emotional appeal." That's why it's acclaimed. The gameplay (when it's there) is some of the worst I've put up with in a stealth game.

Look at me I am so edgy

 

[JayEH]

Look at me I am so edgy

Don't agree = edgy?

 

[Russ T]

Don't agree = edgy?

I believe it's more like...

unnecessarily harsh statements without bothering to explain = edgy and inflammatory

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Don't play games on Hard the first time unless you understand that it's meant to be a challenge - especially games that offer a decent challenge at Normal difficulty settings.

Secondly, The Last of Us' stealth is meant to be very stripped down for tension and relative believability. If you want great stealth experiences, play Metal Gear Solid V or one of the other highly rated stealth series.

Sorry you didn't enjoy the game.

 

[horkrux]

I can't really relate to this perspective regarding the ending. I don't remember the game too well, so I don't know how many people Joel kills during cutscenes or whether he was completely different to the rest of the cast, but the world in TLoU is violent already. It's littered with groups of armed looters shooting on sight, everyone's for themselves. That is already incredibly far apart from our world and worlds shape people.

I can understand that someone would find this distasteful, but it's not like the killing at the end was incoherent in tone compared to the rest of the game. He was capable of doing such things the entirety of the game after the prologue, so of course busting her out like that would be a viable solution.

 

[Memento]

Don't agree = edgy?

Anyone that doesnt bother to even elaborate on their controversial "opinion" in regards to some highly praised game is basically someone seeking attention in my experience.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Actually...

I literally made it through the entire final chapter without killing anyone but the doctor he kills in the cutscene.

:3

They give you the tools (smoke bomb, bottles/bricks for noise, etc.) to get through without too much harm if you really need to.

EDIT: Also, I might be wrong, now that I think about it. I probably stealth killed a few dudes just to make my life easier.

I'm not saying you HAVE to kill people but you absolutely can and either way the narrative paints the situation like Joel can absolutely get through any obstacle to get to where he wants. The stealth is not any more believable than the combat.

 

[Insane Metal]

TLOU's story and characters are awful dogshit, but the gameplay is really involving and, to me at least, sets a new bench mark for survival horror the way RE4 did a decade prior.

Hard Mode without Listening is probably the best way to experience a first playthrough.

Jesus... no and no. Story and characters are awesome. Absolutely loved the fungi take and Joel's character.

 

[Russ T]

I'm not saying you HAVE to kill people but you absolutely can and either way the narrative paints the situation like Joel can absolutely get through any obstacle to get to where he wants. The stealth is not any more believable than the combat.

well now you're just complaining about video games

(also up until this post you have been exclusively talking about killing people, so forgive me if i counter that with not killing people!)

 

[Twelvy]

During my playthrough, I encountered so many bugs (bad object culling, crazy pathfinding etc.). For example I didn't have the last encounter with the infected ennemies in the tunnel (before the hospital). My friends told me it was hard, I'll never know about it.
As many have said, the gameplay is ok (I played in hard without the "sonar"), but the storytelling makes the game great.

I'm at the encounter where Ellie uses a gun for the first time to cover Joel while he goes around choking dudes. (...)

Surprisingly, I went through this area without getting noticed. Ellie didn't have to fire a single shot. The following cutscene made little sense.

Note: I play stealth to an extreme level (I almost never used the firearms in the game), so I won't be surprised I managed to dodge some trigger areas.

 

[Comfort Jones]

well now you're just complaining about video games

(also up until this post you have been exclusively talking about killing people, so forgive me if i counter that with not killing people!)

There's plenty of forced violence through out the game and either way you're presented with a million situations Joel should not actually be able to deal with. My complaint is the game's story pretends to be gritty and realistic but the actual execution has absolutely no substance to it. Joel's insane misanthropic will is imposed on every situation and at no point is he ever forced to back down. He constantly makes decisions that could easily get him killed every step of the way but he's the protagonist so he's gonna be totally a-ok.

I'm holding this game to the standard people seem to put it to as if it's up there with amazing movie level writing and I'm not seeing it at all. These are not people making rational and understandable decisions these are videogame protags dressed up as ordinary folk so marks can fall for the illusion that this story is somehow grounded.

 

[mnemonicj]

In my opinion, you hit the nail on the head with your gameplay description. It was probably just as tedious for me of an experience, but I did enjoy the story and the presentation. That is what basically kept me going. I have always felt a really obvious linear/sucky gameplay design with Naughty Dog games, same goes for the Uncharted series and even the Jak series.

The gameplay just seems off and clumsy for me.

 

[dragonbane]

Pittsburgh is pretty trash in my opinion. Worst stretch of the game by far outside of the forced walking sections right after the Prologue. Very tedious and drags along with bad pacing. The enemy encounters didn't annoy me much, but since the game is rather varied it can happen quickly. Especially when the designers didn't intend something e.g stealthing the Ellie with a sniper rifle section. The story (Ellie needs to protect Joel) clashes hard with the gameplay here if you decide to stealth. The scene never ends until Ellie has fired at least one shot and the game will keep respawning enemies right in your face to ensure it eventually happens. Very blatant and horribly designed, but I only read about it afterwards since I did what they wanted and blazed in.

 

[Jawbreaker]

The stealth and combat mechanics are fantastic. Start the game on "Hard" with "Listen Mode" off.

 

[dragonbane]

Surprisingly, I went through this area without getting noticed. Ellie didn't have to fire a single shot. The following cutscene made little sense.
.

You encountered another bug then or Ellie shot someone while you didn't notice. The game is literally scripted to infinitely respawn enemies until she shoots someone and a timer expired. There are several videos on it where the player chokes all enemies out and the game spawns new ones right in front of him infinitely until he alerts them, Ellie fires one shot, cue cutscene. Unless they "fixed" that on PS4 maybe, but broke the story instead lol

 

[joshcam19]

I'll preface this by saying I started playing on normal for PS3. But my second playthrough was Survivor and that is the way that game is meant to be played. 4 playthroughs between PS3 and PS4 on Survivor, with the tension that mode brings and solid gameplay, it's so good. Sorry you're having trouble.

 

[The Goat]

Played through the original PS3 version, and loved every second of it. I picked up PS4 version when it came out, was hyped to run through it again. Played up to where you meet up with

Spoiler

Tommy

Something with the PS4 version doesn't feel right compared to the PS3. Weapon handling feels off. Either way, lost interest in TLOU on PS4.

 

[Ricky_R]

ND always says during interviews that we're playing as "just normal people" but honestly Nathan Drake and Joel are straight up superhumans who just happen to be wearing tshirts outside of when the story says "except at this part where they get hurt."

Hahah you need to let that one go.

 

[Laughing Banana]

You encountered another bug then or Ellie shot someone while you didn't notice. The game is literally scripted to infinitely respawn enemies until she shoots someone and a timer expired. There are several videos on it where the player chokes all enemies out and the game spawns new ones right in front of him infinitely until he alerts them, Ellie fires one shot, cue cutscene. Unless they "fixed" that on PS4 maybe, but broke the story instead lol

Nah, you can definitely do it without Ellie having to shot a single bullet (though this makes the next "How do I do" cutscene somewhat jarring.) You are also incorrect in the infinitely respawning enemies, there are only two sets of enemy spawns in that encounter, although yes the second set of enemy spawn can literally appear out of nowhere.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

'Okay ...'

 

[gogosox82]

Don't play on Survivor. I played on normal and had a good time and thought it was decently challenging in a few areas but pretty easy so you may want to play on Hard for a good challenge. I get the idea that Survivor is for people that have playing the game before and want that kind of challenge so its probably not ideal for a first playthrough.

 

[Foxxsoxx]

The gameplay was excellent, barebones for sure but that is the charm for me. It's simple to get into, very tense, and it really makes you cringe every time you miss a bullet, especially in Survival or Grounded.


Jeez now I want to replay it... for the 5th time...

 

[Crossing Eden]

Hahah you need to let that one go.

I really can't, been playing TLOU and it's really sticking out. In both UC4 and TLOU it's really egregious. I hope they either drop that conceit entirely or make adjustments to the gameplay to make it more than just lip service. Especially in the current climate of gaming where there are characters who're just normal people.

 

[Comfort Jones]

'Okay ...'

Gee what a great retort.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I really can't, been playing TLOU and it's really sticking out. In both UC4 and TLOU it's really egregious. I hope they either drop that conceit entirely or make adjustments to the gameplay to make it more than just lip service. Especially in the current climate of gaming where there are characters who're just normal people.

TLOU is really not that unbelievable. I can conceive the possibility of someone extremely hardened like Joel making it out of the situation he's in alive, although like Marlene I would express amazement.

Uncharted is much more egregious in that regard. Especially during occasions where people like Elena tagged along with you and turned out the "normal" lady reporter is just as proficient in climbing and shooting as Drake is.

 

[supernormal]

TLOU is really not that unbelievable. I can conceive the possibility of someone extremely hardened like Joel making it out of the situation he's in alive, although like Marlene I would express amazement.

Uncharted is much more egregious in that regard. Especially during occasions where people like Elena tagged along with you and turned out the "normal" lady reporter is just as proficient in climbing and shooting as Drake is.

Yeah that was one of the most jarring things in that game. I wish they would have handled those parts differently. Like maybe have Drake clear the harder climbing parts and then throw the rope down or something.

That's the problem with these games when they're so invested in being real and grounded in their story. Those otherwise "insignificant" gameplay inconsistencies stick out like a sore thumb.

I did like how TLOU incorporated the large body count into the writing when David explains your journey from his point of view. It's a little touch that sort of acknowledges how crazy everything you've done was instead of just brushing it off as "gameplay."

 

[Crossing Eden]

TLOU is really not that unbelievable. I can conceive the possibility of someone extremely hardened like Joel making it out of the situation he's in alive, although like Marlene I would express amazement.

Uncharted is much more egregious in that regard. Especially during occasions where people like Elena tagged along with you and turned out the "normal" lady reporter is just as proficient in climbing and shooting as Drake is.

Dude takes one shot of penicillin and he's strong enough to kill a lot of people and even capture and torture two dudes and then proceed further into a town and fight his way there. He's not very believable. Ellie on the other hand is really believable during gameplay, there's way less of a disconnect between the story and the gameplay in the combat segments of left behind. She's takes way less hits than Joel does, she's not superhuman so "stealth takedowns" are actually quite loud and take awhile, (not to mention she has a brain and keeps a knife handy instead of constantly crafting breakable knives), she uses her brain more often instead of just straight fighting everything seemingly unharmed. She's a really believable character in the world ND set out to make compared to Joel and Drake. All of these things are subtle changes that actually make the gameplay feel much more grounded, instead of just the aesthetic and character design. You actually feel like you're trying to survive. More of that, less superhuman gruff white older male.

 

[Artdayne]

Also I agree with this. The ending was ultra-shitty as you had no choice on if you wanted to Papa Bear Joel (save her) or let her die for the sake of the world (what I wanted to do, especially as the game BEATS YOU OVER THE HEAD at the start to allow that). Nope, you're auto-forced to do a few more battles just to save her for an emotional ending that had no impact on me because at that point I couldn't have gave a shit about Ellie. I completed my job, let her die.

Most games "auto force" you to do things to beat the game. This isn't an RPG and was never advertised as one. The fact that you didn't care about Ellie is weird though as they couldn't have done much more to make you emphasize with her. Your last line reads like a psychopath.

 

[EatinOlives]

I've been playing on Normal with Listen Mode off (considered keeping hard but I felt sick enough of the game mechanics I just wanted to go through with Normal) since I posted the OP and I have to say the experience is 100% better.

At the end of the day I still think the engine and especially the PS4 version (which apparently has bugged AI compared to the PS3 one) doesn't hold up to significant challenge due to the dumb shit I was describing. Under that mode the game seems to be constantly at odds with itself. In some instances you get fucked if you go stealth, other times you're fucked if you go guns blazing. Sometimes the game forces you to kill everyone in the room, sometimes you can just sneak past (the game never communicates which of the two is applicable). The game is at its best when it plays fast and loose with the mechanics and you can freely switch in and out of stealth, but sadly you can't really do that with higher difficulties unless you know everything inside out.

I'm at the

Spoiler

sewers and I'm alone with Sam

, if anyone's curious.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Dude takes one shot of penicillin and he's strong enough to kill a lot of people and even capture and torture two dudes and then proceed further into a town and fight his way there. He's not very believable. Ellie on the other hand is really believable during gameplay, there's way less of a disconnect between the story and the gameplay in the combat segments of left behind. She's takes way less hits than Joel does, she's not superhuman so "stealth takedowns" are actually quite loud and take awhile, (not to mention she has a brain and keeps a knife handy instead of constantly crafting breakable knives), she uses her brain more often instead of just straight fighting everything seemingly unharmed. She's a really believable character in the world ND set out to make compared to Joel and Drake. All of these things are subtle changes that actually make the gameplay feel much more grounded, instead of just the aesthetic and character design. You actually feel like you're trying to survive. More of that, less superhuman gruff white older male.

Well, in trying to merge gameplay sensibilities and story elements, I thought generally speaking TLOU managed to do it rather proficiently (NPCs running around near clickers notwithstanding, hahah.) I don't recall any scenario where I felt a jarring sensation when playing it, unlike Uncharted. Yes, even the Joel is wounded but managed to go on a rampage to save Ellie thing; I felt that section, though exaggerated perhaps, was believable enough that I can believe it can happen in the "real world" in the same circumstances.

Most games "auto force" you to do things to beat the game. This isn't an RPG and was never advertised as one. The fact that you didn't care about Ellie is weird though as they couldn't have done much more to make you emphasize with her. Your last line reads like a psychopath.

Well maybe he found Ellie as annoying or the game just didn't do enough job for him to make him sympathize with her. Calling him a psychopath simply because he couldn't care less is weird to me.

I've been playing on Normal with Listen Mode off (considered keeping hard but I felt sick enough of the game mechanics I just wanted to go through with Normal) since I posted the OP and I have to say the experience is 100% better.

At the end of the day I still think the engine and especially the PS4 version (which apparently has bugged AI compared to the PS3 one) doesn't hold up to significant challenge due to the dumb shit I was describing. Under that mode the game seems to be constantly at odds with itself. In some instances you get fucked if you go stealth, other times you're fucked if you go guns blazing. Sometimes the game forces you to kill everyone in the room, sometimes you can just sneak past (the game never communicates which of the two is applicable). The game is at its best when it plays fast and loose with the mechanics and you can freely switch in and out of stealth, but sadly you can't really do that with higher difficulties unless you know everything inside out.

I'm at the

Spoiler

sewers and I'm alone with Sam

, if anyone's curious.

Well, Naughty Dog has gone on record that they found it really difficult to port TLOU to PS4 so maybe all the weirdness you've encountered has something to do with that.

 

[Mub!]

i thought the last of us characters were all one note cardboard cutouts of popular archetypes in post apocalyptic fiction

they literally have no depth beyond a one line summary of them

 

[Simbabbad]

For me this ending finally did away the ridiculous moralist BS that game stories always peddle and actually delivered a human portrayal, instead of some embarassing wish fullfillment.

Actually it's the exact opposite, the standard Hollywood cliché for years is: "The whole of humanity (but me and my friends) is trash, and if I have a choice between humanity and this person I care about, I choose this person I care about. Fuck others, egoism rules."

You have this literally in Hellboy 2, Matrix Reloaded, etc. You have to watch old movies to find someone praise sacrifice for the common good. "Fuck the common good, it's me and my relatives." is a modern trope tied to consumerism, and a depressing one.

 

[Laughing Banana]

i thought the last of us characters were all one note cardboard cutouts of popular archetypes in post apocalyptic fiction

they literally have no depth beyond a one line summary of them

Well the Last of Us' story is ridden with overdone cliches and tropes right from the very beginning to the very end.

It's just that they're done well, for many people.

 

[dragonbane]

Nah, you can definitely do it without Ellie having to shot a single bullet (though this makes the next "How do I do" cutscene somewhat jarring.) You are also incorrect in the infinitely respawning enemies, there are only two sets of enemy spawns in that encounter, although yes the second set of enemy spawn can literally appear out of nowhere.

I think the AI might have gotten a bug as well then. I choked a guy out and right next to him a new one spawned, but he didn't move at all (his back was facing away from me). I then proceeded to choke him out as well and a 3rd one spawned. I gave up at that point on my replay and alerted them again. But I guess it was probably the 3 waves combined with an AI brainfart bug where they don't do anything, so it just looked like mindless spawns to me.

 

[Ricky_R]

I really can't, been playing TLOU and it's really sticking out. In both UC4 and TLOU it's really egregious. I hope they either drop that conceit entirely or make adjustments to the gameplay to make it more than just lip service. Especially in the current climate of gaming where there are characters who're just normal people.

I don't really recall ND saying or treating Joel as a normal/ordinary guy in the same way they have for Drake. Anyway, it's been said countless times that ND and most people refer to Drake being that way due to his behavior, way he talks, etc. Is the actual gameplay disconnected from that personality? Sure, it's a TPS after all, but I'm pretty sure they don't mean Drake was a mailman and suddenly turned into this superhuman treasure hunter.

Just let it go. You basically point it out in every single ND thread.

 

[comshoplesce]

Don't play on Survivor. I played on normal and had a good time and thought it was decently challenging in a few areas but pretty easy so you may want to play on Hard for a good challenge. I get the idea that Survivor is for people that have playing the game before and want that kind of challenge so its probably not ideal for a first playthrough.

what about highest one, grounded try that

 

[Zweisy1]

Just completely baffled why people hold Naughty Dog in such high regard. Having played TLOU and the Uncharted games there absolutely nothing there gameplay wise that makes them some kind of god tier developer. The games are just ridiculously shallow lacking any dynamics.. Especially Ucharted.

Infocom was already doing more interesting stuff with storytelling in the medium in the early 80's not to mention several others since then.

Yes they make polished games and have great skills when it comes to technology but it doesn't count for much when the actual content is so uninteresting.. TBH the only Naughty Dog game I consider truly great is Crash Team Racing.

 

[visiblemode]

This whole thing seems to start off with a presumption that this game should be a piece of cake.

Play on normal, first.

The game has awesome gameplay. I strongly dislike when people claim that everyone but them misses that it's terrible. Maybe you don't get it? Consider that.

It's like going skiing for the first time and falling down all day and as you drive away from the slopes looking at the other skiiers and saying "fools, they don't realize how terrible this sport is."

 

[EatinOlives]

Finished the game today (main story).

I was actually playing on Hard with Listen Mode off (not Normal like I said in a post above), and as the game wore on and as it kept throwing more and more BS encounters my way (like the dogshit sniper section, that final horde of zombies where you fight alongside David, the Ellie stealth section with the dozen or so dudes at the ski resort), I kept whittling down the difficulty until Normal with Listen On. By that point I just really didn't give a shit about the gameplay and was just there for the story. The gameplay was most enjoyable at that difficulty since it got out of the way which, all things considered, is really not a compliment.

I actually encountered a couple of more bugs. One was a hard crash to the PS4 menu, the other was a weird thing when after respawning I would be hit with severe input lag. I would push the stick to aim and the reticle would keep turning a half second after I let go. It would eventually sort itself out. The PS4 version is definitely rough around the edges technically-speaking because there's no way people would've been so kind to the game had these bugs been present in the PS3 version.

The story was easily the best part of the game. I had to stop reading this thread because there were people discussing the ending, but now that I read through it I have to agree with the folks who say the ending was well made precisely because it was meant to show Joel as a pretty fucked up individual who does ultimately mean well but his way to go about doing it is just disturbing. At that point it's clear that Joel above all else fights to survive and fights for his loved ones to survive. Literally anything else doesn't matter. He doesn't have an answer to "but what about the cure?" and doesn't give a shit. Not the most emotionally satisfying ending, but I think Naughty Dog knew that such an ending would be the more expected one and made a considerable effort to subvert it.

I started Left Behind, I've done about a half hour of it. Also with Normal and Listen On, since I still don't give a shit about the gameplay

 

[EatinOlives]

And I finished Left Behind! Much shorter than I was anticipating, but also much better since it was heavily focused on story and had very little gameplay.

I watched the 1.5hr documentary in the extras and it really helped me appreciate the amount of effort put into the writing and some of the design. This is probably confirmation bias happening but the part toward the end of the documentary where they were talking about the actual gameplay was relatively short. It kind of showed (to me at least) that gameplay was not the focus of the game from a development standpoint. IMHO it really showed in the game itself based on the countless shit-talking I've done about the gameplay in this thread.

Anyway, I really ended up liking the universe, the plot, and the characters. For much of the game I was playing it just to get to see what comes next story-wise. In a way it's kind of a weakness that I ended up thinking of the gameplay as the primary obstacle sandwiched between the elements that I was truly interested about, since in that case conceptually it sounds like it would be better as a book/TV show/movie than a video game. But I still have a generally pretty good experience with the game as a whole and I'm glad I played it and obviously glad it was made.

I haven't touched Uncharted 4 but here's to hoping they've learned from their mistakes gameplay-wise. I look forward to playing that at some point (not now, No Man's Sky is waiting for me!)