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[Jarmel]

So this is a game that is well considered a classic. I finally got around to playing/finishing it in the past couple of weeks, mostly in prep for Xenoblade X, after stopping for a period of time. This is a game that I’ve wanted to play for the longest time not just because I’m a RPG fan but also I’m a big mecha fan. So in many ways this should have been straight up my alley. It’s a hard game to review or analyze for a number of reasons, the main one obviously being Disc 2. Yea. I also ruminated over it for a few days after reading Perfect Works, resulting in my initial impression post-game being a bit different than it is now.

Visuals-

The graphics are what one would expect out of a PS1 game. It is what it is. They held up better than I expected but it’s not that surprising as 32 bit stuff hasn’t aged as quickly as 64 bit. I did find the animated cutscene to be kinda cool in that I liked the alternative/detailed art presented. There weren’t that many but they were all pretty well storyboarded. I can see elements of here that Mashimo carried into .hack//SIGN. I’m sure Otaking would have been proud with all of that proper shading. The CGI was appropriate for the era, in that it was terrible, but at least no CGI mechs. Overall, Production IG did a good job. Too bad there aren’t any higher resolution copies of the cutscenes out there on BD or something. It should have been done on cel so it should upscale pretty well.

Some of the in-game character model cutscenes didn’t work as well, on an emotional front as I would have liked, for a couple of reasons. One reason being the lack of voices during certain scenes such as Krellian’s big emotional breakthrough. Good voice acting would have done wonders for a number of bits. The other being that you can’t see facial details or subtle body language. Yes, I know it’s the PS1 but it’s one of those things that I still can’t help but wish, especially in such a narrative heavy game.

Maria’s Seibzehn being a reference to Giant Robo was kinda cute.

The mech designs were fairly interesting and diverse. It’s pretty clear that the Gundam franchise had a big influence. For example, the mechs are articulated in a similar manner to G-Gundam despite the difference in cockpit designs. Funnels being renamed Aerods is another one. Evangelion also had a big part, although that’s more on the narrative front. Crescens looked like a combination of Allenby’s Nobel Gundam with RahXephon( this came out after Xeno though). It’s a bit of a hodgepodge of multiple franchises and I enjoyed that. The super sentai transformation sequence for the Elements was pretty cool, I hadn’t pieced together the purpose of the different animal shapes until that exact moment. The gattai sequence being so long was just the icing on the cake. Super Dimension Gear Yggdrasil IV was not only a blast to see but play. I always wanted to play the Fortress giving a smackdown. I got a big kick out of all of this.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if the Devil Gundam had an influence on Takahashi, in regards to Deus.

Sound/Translation-

It would have been nice if the in-game stuff was orchestral as it’s so damn good. Far Away Promise was the stand out piece for me, although it didn’t translate that well into a piano version (possibly because the tempo is off in the piano composition). I think the music box component really helped give it a sense of sadness and loss. Yasunori Mitsuda delivered the quality I would expect from him. Xenoblade Chronicle’s OST was outstanding so I had high expectations going in from an audio standpoint. The Celtic inspiration gave it a nice flair. After I finished the game, I found the orchestral performances of a number of key songs and while not all of them panned out, I’m still listening to a few. Small Two of Pieces was a fantastic credits song.

Dubbing is pretty bad for the anime cutscenes but that was expected. Translation stuff seemed kinda off at times. Supposedly they fucked around with some of the names making things even more confusing for the audience. Myyah to Miang being one of them, as the connection to Ellie is lost there. Seems like it was a nightmare to translate. Citan’s name being Shitan in Japanese is pretty funny though.

Minor quibble but the audio mixing in the final scene with Krellian was atrocious. Parts of the dialogue were not even understandable. Kinda weird as that was the only time it was an issue.

Story-

It feels like Takahasi crammed three novels worth of material into the game. In short it’s a mess. Now don’t get me wrong, it’s an interesting and intriguing mess at times but it’s definitely a mess. Parts of the story aren’t really explained that well in the game, some parts are too long and others too short, character work is neglected at needed points, and long sequences where on purpose the audience has no clue as to what is going on. Part of this can be attributed to Disc 2 which is like the bare framework of the story. The pacing is just so completely fucked in Disc 2 that elements of the story are negatively impacted as a result.

An example would be the Soylent System stuff in that it’s something that happens and the pacing ruins any sort of emotion involved in that, the nanomachines have mostly solved the problem less than half an hour later. It's treated as something like a roadbump instead of the world-changing event that it is. Obviously it’s supposed to be foreshadowing the Deus stuff at the end but due to the proximity of the actual twist with Deus, it would have made more sense to just merge the Soylent stuff with the later Deus material or just completely cut it as a separate plot component. There’s no emotional impact and all it does is ruin the twist later. The impact from Hammer’s ‘sudden betrayal’ is also impacted in that it’s not fleshed out at all. This is something that absolutely needed more detail as it results in a critical moment in Disk 1. You run into him again in Disk 2 and it’s like “Oh hey, boss fight time” and that’s really it. There's nowhere near enough there for any of that to feel earned. Rico’s stuff is also just completely left open and he pretty much serves no purpose in the 2nd disc, either gameplay-wise or narratively. There’s no sense of closure in regards to his relationship with his father. There’s also stuff like Bart regaining the throne and ultimately that feels like a waste because the entire country is wiped out in such a short while later anyway. Climaxes feel undercut because the pacing is just too condensed. Hell, Shevat crashed offscreen (they didn’t even have a cutscene for this one).

Now I’ve seen people praise Disc 2 and I understand why, in that Disc 1 was too slow and boring at times. Part of this is due to the dungeons in the game in that they’re fucking awful. Disc 1 being bloated while on the other hand. Disc 2 feels too truncated. It’s a very uneven experience but at least with Disc 1 I feel the slower pace worked better with the complicated narrative in that it allowed things to happen and there was more room to breathe. For example exploring Solaris at the end of Disc 1 was nice and I appreciated elements like that as it not only helps make the world the characters are living in seem more real but it also serves to deepen some of the later narrative elements through minor dialogue sequences. In Disk 2 however, the only time the audience has any time to breathe or take in the circumstances is at the very end. There aren’t any gameplay segments to break up the story and so instead you’re treated to a visual novel that just burns through its material. All I could do was press X to get through walls of text at agonizingly slow speeds and occasionally have a boss battle or dungeon if I'm lucky. Disc 1's faults don't make Disc 2 better.

I also have issues in how the story is told. There are numerous cutscenes in the game that don’t make a lick of sense unless you:

A) Finish the game
B) Read Perfect Works
C) Do Both

Part of this is due the fact that the characters use jargon that they haven’t explained to the audience. I mean the Gazelle Ministry stuff is just overloaded with it. Now before someone complains that I’m expected to replay a 80-90 hour game in order to better understand the story, like they did back in the day, I feel there had to have been a more effective approach than what was presented here. I find Nier to be a more recent example that does something similar but in a much better manner. Nier’s approach of cutting out cutscenes till later playthroughs helps with pacing initially as the audience doesn’t have to watch X amount of minutes that would be a complete waste to them at that point in time and it provides the user more incentive to replay the game as the user has a better grasp of the narrative and can actually make heads or tails out of it. I understand it’s unfair to compare a game released in 1998 with 2010 but I’m not happy with the execution presented here. I feel like Xenoblade Characters was infinitely better narratively than Xenogears, mainly in how the story and characters are presented. I will note though that Xenogears is a vastly more complicated work than Xenoblade.

There’s also tons of character development stuff in Perfect Works that really should have been in the game. Jessie’s notes in the book help contextualize Billy’s reaction, as opposed to Billy just appearing to be a rebellious teenager. Jessie literally don’t look like his old self as a result of plastic surgery so it was understandable for Billy to wonder if this was his dad. A bigger one would be Elly and her not knowing if Medena is her mother. I mean the narrative in the game presents it as a question of sorts but the book spells it out, as it’s important to note that she’s the Antitype. While it does hurt the idea of Medena possibly sacrificing herself for someone else’s child, it also answers why Elly looks different. This information could have been presented later in the story so as to not undercut Medena’s sacrifice at the time, while letting Elly contemplate her relationship with her mother. I mean Elly’s reaction to her parents sacrificing themselves isn’t that well delved into. Yes, the information isn’t critical so when it comes right down to it, I kinda understand why it got cut out but elements like that really flesh out characters. I shouldn’t be reading a book after the game having eureka moments.

Since I’m sure somebody is going to point out that I’m complaining about the lack of info provided in the cutscenes while also suggesting a number be excised at the same time, I should note that the problem isn’t inherently in the information itself but how and when it’s presented. Lacan and Krelian’s full background information is told a bit too late in the narrative and really should have been presented sooner. Well, that, and instead of the Ministry garbage, I would have taken more conversations involving the actual party members.

At least they're providing pictures with the words.

I'm fully cognizant that some people would disagree and would rather have the cliffnotes than for anything to be cut out. However you work with what you got. If you have a 5 minute short, you don’t write an hour worth of material for it and try to cram everything in. If you do go over then you should adjust the narrative. Once it became clear they were having serious budget issues, they should have trimmed the story down instead of giving the audience something anemic.

All of that said, it’s impressive what the story accomplishes on a thematic level. It combines Childhood’s End, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Nietzsche. I can see why there were issues getting this imported over due to the religious content. Some of the stuff is pretty directed in its criticism of organized religion. A minor example being Grahf doing this ritual, or communion, when reviving defeated enemies. Obviously the final boss citing bible quotes is a major one (Square RPGs really do love that). Lenin would have been proud of the Ethos stuff. On that note, the game is still very spiritual, mostly due to the Nisan Church. While I don’t necessarily agree with God being the concept of two individuals helping one another, it’s touching. The notion of lifting a fallen brother or sister up is an exemplary ideal. I think the Nisan Church is a good representation of what religion should be while the Ethos Church is closer to what it actually is.

Something I found peculiar was while the depiction of Solaris links with a negative viewpoint of capitalism; they don’t really present much of an alternative. Solaris is a mixture of The World State in Brave New World and Oceania from 1984. I know that’s a weird description because those two societies are vastly different, not only in how they function but the goals they claim to perpetrate for society. However those two came to mind because Solaris utilizes technology similar to TWS to keep the Lambs brainwashed and Solaris citizens happy. On the other hand, the government is using fear and force to keep the lower classes in Solaris itself oppressed, such as throwing that guy protesting down the hole when you start exploring the place. I thought Shevat would be the contrast but it’s pretty much nonexistent as a country when the party arrives, not to mention Shevat’s society still runs off of money (probably a limitation of it being in a game).

There is also a really good introspection of the Hedgehog's Dilemma. A key part of the story is oriented around the difficulty of two humans simply communicating with one another. Even inside Fei himself he can't communicate. The three personas were all incapable of saying what was needed to be said till near the end. There's also a great conversation between Elly and Fei about the notion of fitting in. It was a splendid insight into Fei's need for a social identity due to the lack of his personal one. It was fanfuckintastic that Fei's personal issues of identity were tied so well with Deus, it makes the work feel cohesive thematically (even if I'm not happy that the writers used Elly to get there).

lol

The ending was totally Gundam though, complete with Newtype nudity, and dialogue straight from Eva.

 

[Jarmel]

Gameplay-

You already know what I’m going to talk about. The Tower of Babel. Holy fuck. It didn’t even take me that long to get through the damn place but good lord was it annoying. Despite my characters being dead on with that stupid rope, it never seemed to catch. Adding on to how the random battles worked, this was uh ‘trying’. If you’re gonna have required platforming in your battle RPG (I have no clue why you would), at least have the courtesy to have a good camera. The sad part was that wasn’t the worst part of the dungeon, it was the damn fuel limitation. The fuel system for the mechs is something I loved initially in that it worked as a way to sort of limit grinding, add some realism to the mechs, and add complexity to mech strategy. However in some dungeons even with proper gear equipment, the fuel system becomes a nightmare. Like near the end of Babel I had to run away from battles as I was running out of fuel. I wasn’t doing anything special other than trying to get out of the dungeon and it seemed like I was running on fumes.

Expanding on this, many of these dungeons are just bad, especially on the first disc. The layouts can be disorienting even with the compass. Many times parts of the dungeon look similar making it even easier to get lost. Often times the dungeons are too long, I mean the sewers were way too long for what it was. The final dungeon just had me grin and bearing it as I tried to figure out what the hell the map even looked like. A few of them just felt like they were purposefully designed to waste as much of my time as humanely possible. I wonder how much of that was due to the budget trimming at the end of Disc 1.

In addition to the above, the encounter trigger is fucked. It leads to more frustration than it should and for the encounter trigger being such a minor thing, it leads to a lot of frustration. It’s such a glaring oversight that I have to imagine they ran out of time/money to fix it. There were too many times when you’re doing something and you’re wondering “Why isn’t the game doing Y” and it’s because the game had already decided that you’re in a battle. I should also mention the encounter rate is insane, I don’t remember other JRPGs being this annoying in regards to random battles. I looked it up later and it turned out that Xenogears didn’t have the encounter rate changed from the Japanese release unlike many other games. Yea so what I learned from that is I’m never playing some of these old JRPGs on my Vita. At least with an emulator I could have skip through the junk fights. Parts of the game just felt too long because I kept running into a fight. Not to mention I was way over-leveled in certain parts without doing any sort of notable grinding but rather as a result of just trying to progress.

Never forget

The Deathblows finishers are something I liked initially but again as the game went on I was getting tired of the animations necessary to kill a random enemy. I feel the Deathblows lose their uniqueness with how much you have to use them. It’s cool that you have to press a combo of sorts, reinforcing the kung-fu theme, but it gets annoying with how often you gotta do it. When you have to do it for almost every random enemy, you want it to be as fast as possible.

The weapon system is rudimentary at best. It feels incomplete in how many characters fight with their barehands even late game. Of course the one character who doesn’t need a weapon gets one. Citan was already better on foot than any other party member and the game decides to give him a sword? Just complete EZ mode. I suppose it ties into the kung-fu element but it still feels as if there is a gap somewhere. Then there is Billy's stuff which I gave up trying to figure out as it seemed a waste of time. On the other side, I wish the accessory system, for both people and Gears, was more complex than what it is. A number of the accessories are just completely useless, and I’m not talking about AR+2 going to AR+3. I liked and disliked only being able to improve your Gear through buying parts. By having your Gear forced to a certain level, it makes some of the boss fights more challenging. However at other points it feels useless getting in fights with enemies as there was very little to be gained. It’s also pretty easy to ‘break’ the game but that was the case for most JRPGs back in the day.

There’s some stuff that was outright bugged such as weight. Despite tertiary side-characters harping on about it, it seems like weight doesn’t affect anything stats-wise. Fei’s Yin Power also seemed bugged but that’s relatively minor I guess. A bigger one however would be that first rock puzzle in the 2nd Anima dungeon. Ugh.

Characters-

I suppose the painting being unfinished is appropriate.

This was the strongest aspect of the game, hands-down. I’m starting to play my way through Xenosaga Episode 1 and it’s made me fully appreciate how much of this game was in 2D. I don’t think Tanaka’s work translates that well into 3D. In Xenogears though the character designs are great. Fei has a really distinguishable design and so does Id. Id’s red and wild hair reflect the passion/insanity inside of him. Many of the designs are simple and don’t feel ostentatious. Krelian for example has a somewhat plain look to him but it works as a reflection of his prior work in the Nisan Church. Fei’s dad with the kung-fu grandmaster mustache was hilarious. The only design that totally did not work for me was:

I keep looking at his face and I see this open mouth smiling. I know where his head starts but I just see that mouth every time. Dude looks like he’s having the time of his life. I can’t unsee it.

Fei was a pretty good lead all things considered. I’ve seen the amnesia scenario play out ungodly amounts of times in stories but I felt it was used in a rather unique way here. There are very few protagonists in any medium that have dissociative identity disorder. It was kinda obvious early on, which annoyed me that they dragged the reveal out, but it’s an interesting concept to explore. I think it’s handled in a more intriguing fashion than the Zack/Cloud stuff in FF VII because here it addresses notions of self-responsibility head-on. There isn’t any bullshit like with Jenova cells but rather the split is triggered out of abandonment by Fei’s parents. It also reminded me of Serial Experiments Lain (just not as trippy) in how the identities were broken up. A lot of the game is Fei coming to terms with the sorrow in his life, and past ones, and striving to overcome it. He also had a fairly good connection with the villain, not only on a personal level but thematic one as well.

Krelian was a nastier version than his namesake in Childhood’s End. Both were honed in on the notion of becoming one with their god, but Krelian went a bit further. Krelian’s reasoning was more personal in nature due to his loss and so as a result to that, is closer thematically to Gendo Ikari. I found it curious that you never directly fight him in the game. In fact, Krelian gets his wish at the end. Yet I suppose at the end, he’s still lonely. Despite being a monster, I think they did a good job humanizing him compared to say Ramsus. If I ever have to hear about trash again...

Elly got done dirty. Pumped and dumped. I found Fei’s reasoning as to why Elly couldn’t come along to be iffy at best. You’re seriously worried about her safety only at that point? Really? It was obviously done to reduce impact on the player, gameplay-wise so that they didn’t dump a ton money into her Gear only to lose it shortly after when she turns into nu-Miang. Felt like something Bioware would have done. Well the whole Miang brainwashing (gene activation whatever you want to call it) thing had me groaning anyway as I wasn’t wild about them turning her into a damsel in distress. There are only so many times you can see the ‘Hypnotize the Princess’ trope before you groan by default. I did think her relationship with Fei up to that point was good though in how the two depended on each for a place to belong.

Emeralda was too adorable.

I really enjoyed the bromance component between Fei and Bart, in that the two were like brothers from another mother. Their friendship is a real bright spot for the relationship inside the party. Unfortunately Bart’s stuff, along with everyone else’s, gets neglected near the end but there were still some good scenes with him such as explaining the assault with Excalibur and everybody thinking he's insane. Really though, the star party member was Citan for a number of reasons. Not only is he the best on-foot fighter, but he has a calm and controlled persona. He reminded me a lot of Dunban in that regards, while also having the spy component to his background. I thought him being a Solaris spy was a good way to flesh out not only his character but Cain’s as well. When Fei physically charged at Citan, after being released in that Solaris cell, was a pretty powerful moment. There’s also tons of other stuff with the party members that I loved such as Kim’s flashback with Emeralda or Primera calling Jessie, “Dad” for the first time. Margie ignoring everybody and tagging along anyway was hilarious.

I think you can finish the rest of that.

In conclusion, it was alright. It’s definitely a flawed game on multiple fronts but I think it was an experience worth having. The 2nd disk tested me in ways that make MGS4 seem brisk. I just wish that damn text scroll speed was at least ten times faster. I can stand watching a cutscene but forcing me to wait while the text loads up is too much. I think I lost hours clicking X through that all text. There is no fucking way I’m ever replaying this game because of all the text, I just can't. I appreciate it for the ambition it has (which is more than almost any other RPG I've ever played) but I have to damn it for the execution.

Finally Queenie can go straight to hell, that cheating bitch.

 

[keisuke999]

I remember finally playing through Xenogears near the end of high school. I remember my teenage self thinking the game was "like, soooo deep".

I do still think it's a great game overall. But, as OP stated, the 2nd disk just goes on and oooooonnnnn

 

[Soulflarz]

Well, you were actually pretty close to my internal thoughts (well, more fleshed out)

Yeah, I think the game is alright. I feel like it could have been something great, but to the average person, it really could have a "what the hell I dont even know" aspect. I shouldn't need to read a book for it to make sense, thats stupid.

And that text speed is hell. Same reason I wont replay.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I could never make sense of Grahf's portrait. I always thought he had a long nose with something hanging on the end (a booger?).

 

[Suzushiiro]

My teenage self fucking loved Xenogears and played through it like five goddamned times (note that it was one of only two PS1 games I owned back then.)

These days, while I still fucking love it, objectively speaking I think Tim Rogers put it best: "Xenogears is the best game of all-time and the worst game of all-time inserted into opposite ends of a nuclear supercollider."

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

That was an interesting read.

Are you planning on doing one for Xenoblade Chronicles?

 

[Jarmel]

That was an interesting read.

Are you planning on doing one for Xenoblade Chronicles?

Already did one, although it's not as detailed/long as this thread. It's actually interesting to go back and look at my opinion of Xenoblade as I can see elements of Takahashi's writing a bit better, things such as a loss of identity with Shulk and Fiora.

Ugh now I'm stuck listening to Xenoblade Chronicle's OST. So good.

 

[Arklite]

Nice impressions. In a perfect world I suppose they would have rethought their planning, trimmed the story, and fit it all with the gameplay in mind, but I feel that would've been tough. Perhaps not knowing whether they'd ever get a chance at telling this story again, they decided to cram it all in any way they could, and it really is a mess, but personally I'm glad they did it. The best part of the narrative for me is the hints of how grand the scope of the story is and Xenogears throws a kitchen sink of timelines and generations in its second disc. Getting to play it all would've have been amazing, but at least seeing it is something I'd preferred to an edited version.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I have some good memories of the game though story scope was way too ambitious for the content needed to completely flesh it out.

Shame, we'll never get what the full Xenogears would have been like if they had the time and budget to complete it properly, the 2nd disc if it was like the first disc might have been another 40-50 hours of Xenogears.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Already did one, although it's not as detailed/long as this thread. It's actually interesting to go back and look at my opinion of Xenoblade as I can see elements of Takahashi's writing a bit better, things such as a loss of identity with Shulk and Fiora.

Ugh now I'm stuck listening to Xenoblade Chronicle's OST. So good.

So good, thansk for the writeup, I didnt know that second disk was that bad.

 

[Ralemont]

The story peaked for me with the Id revelations and Fei being locked up. I was in full "story shit is going down mang" mode.

The second disc is trash, but I'll still always love Xenogears for Disc 1, for which I thought the pacing was fine personally.

 

[sfedai0]

I never did finish it ever since I got it when it was released. I was so excited to play a mech RPG, and one that somewhat mirrored Evangelion, no less. But damn, that story made my head spin, and those dungeons....oh boy. I went on to satiate my mech hunger with Front Mission series.

 

[Taruranto]

Holy moly, that's a lot to read!

I actually like Xenogears' dungeons, I think I'm one of the few. <_< Except the waterway in the tournament arc, because tournament arcs suck anyway and Xenogears had two too many.

Never had fuel problems either. Since level doesn't matter on gear, as long you use your attacks (i.e. Do not spam the strong one, use Elly's magic) things should go smoothly.

 

[Corpekata]

I replayed it a few years ago and I was surprised at how...hodge podge it feels honestly. Particularly early on it feels like you're hopping into different games. Lot of recruiting party members that barely feel like they have a presence once you've completed their initial story. Probably could've totally cut characters (and sections related to them) like Rico and Billy completely and had a stronger game for it, especially with the resources it would have allowed them for Disc 2.

The main story stuff is pretty great but man is the game bloated.

Translation was a lot worse than I remember too. I remember being more amused at how big of a dick Citan was being to Fei and Elly during the Solyent Green story rather than horrified at the story.

 

[JeffZero]

Favorite game right here. Fell in love when I was 11 years old, and six further replays over the past 16 years haven't steered me off-course. Brilliant, brilliant, terribly flawed game.

Thanks for the write-up. I haven't been treated to so fleshed-out a response in a very long time. It's always a treat.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I completely agree that they should have trimmed the story, a lot, for the sake of a better cohesive end product, maybe it could have saved them the issue of disc 2.

What they ended up as a result is a odd mix of a game that can feel stretched too thin at times to completely crammed all at once. The pacing is all over the place; trying to do too much. It would have been much more cohesive and complete package if they had had the balance of editing their story and scope efficiently.

I replayed it a few years ago and I was surprised at how...hodge podge it feels honestly. Particularly early on it feels like you're hopping into different games. Lot of recruiting party members that barely feel like they have a presence once you've completed their initial story. Probably could've totally cut characters (and sections related to them) like Rico and Billy completely and had a stronger game for it, especially with the resources it would have allowed them for Disc 2.

The main story stuff is pretty great but man is the game bloated.

Translation was a lot worse than I remember too. I remember being more amused at how big of a dick Citan was being to Fei and Elly during the Solyent Green story rather than horrified at the story.

Getting to that part of the story as a teenager in the 90's my brain went "Citan, you're such a douche. Now you tell them what they ate? WTH?!" On that note I seriously have forgotten most of the game's story, but I seriously feel even with how much I loved it back then, it's best left in my teenager gaming memories.

 

[wmlk]

I feel like a whole paragraph was needed for Hammer's heel turn and him killing Medena. Soon leading to Id being shown off for the first time.

For all the story's flaws, and how it fell flat on its face with giving backstory to past incarnations of Abel and Elly, there were some parts in the second disc that were just great. Solaris was very barebones but the character development and plot twists there were something else.

 

[DrForester]

I enjoyed the second disk. I can forgive it for lacking gameplay because the narrative just kept me so engaged with what was going on.

 

[Dead]

Playing Xenogears when it was released was one of the highlights of the PS1 era. Its also one of those things that I think was best experienced then (and at a certain age, much like Eva in a way), but I've replayed it since, and while its flaws became more apparant, it's still an overall incredible experience that I don't think has had any other game achieve the same scope and ambition it did.

 

[EVA UNIT 01]

Fucking love this game.
Will always love it.
Its always going to be the best xeno.
Blade X isnt gonna come close, itll be good but gears is untouchable.
Need to play through this again.

It truly is the EVA of gaming.

 

[wmlk]

I sometimes feel like Takahashi being such a big fan Gundam and EVA is a bit too much and on the nose with how apparent it is in his games, especially in Gears.

Also, you say that Xenoblade is infinitely better mainly with its characters, but then go on to praise the characters in this game as if it's actually really good. Seems like there's a disconnect.

I replayed it a few years ago and I was surprised at how...hodge podge it feels honestly. Particularly early on it feels like you're hopping into different games. Lot of recruiting party members that barely feel like they have a presence once you've completed their initial story. Probably could've totally cut characters (and sections related to them) like Rico and Billy completely and had a stronger game for it, especially with the resources it would have allowed them for Disc 2.

The main story stuff is pretty great but man is the game bloated.

Translation was a lot worse than I remember too. I remember being more amused at how big of a dick Citan was being to Fei and Elly during the Solyent Green story rather than horrified at the story.

I think this is a problem with trying to pull off too many "shocking" moments. This just came off as comical to me after how many other big problems the world in Xenogears has.

 

[JeffZero]

Yeah, playing this at a certain age is a ridiculously spiritual experience. Like, call me crazy for saying that. Go ahead. Do it. But dammit it's the truth. Or perhaps I should say, the -Truth-. Bah, you -Lambs- wouldn't understand!

But yeah, seriously, when people ask me, "when you were a child, what were your major influences?" The Star Trek and Star Wars franchises were two of them. FFVII was another one of them. Asimov and Herbert and Tolkien were up there.

And then there was Xenogears. And there was just no going back. This game, man. I could gush for pages and pages and pages.

It's such a flawed gem, but yeah, to this day I haven't ran into a game that has ever attempted anywhere near its scope. It'll never happen, because lessons were learned, and because narrative-driven games just aren't as lengthy anymore, and because there's really only one Tetsuya Takahashi, and he's kind of stopped trying, to be honest.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

This is the greatest let's play of any game ever, made even moreso after you've beaten the game and become aware of all of its inconsistencies.

I wish this game was finished. I agree with the poster who said Rico and Billy should have been cut, especially because they don't even finish Rico's storyline. The game dedicated so much time to Kislev and D-block that half of disc 2 could have taken its place.

 

[EVA UNIT 01]

Yeah, playing this at a certain age is a ridiculously spiritual experience. Like, call me crazy for saying that. Go ahead. Do it. But dammit it's the truth. Or perhaps I should say, the -Truth-. Bah, you -Lambs- wouldn't understand!

But yeah, seriously, when people ask me, "when you were a child, what were your major influences?" The Star Trek and Star Wars franchises were two of them. FFVII was another one of them. Asimov and Herbert and Tolkien were up there.

And then there was Xenogears. And there was just no going back. This game, man. J could gush for pages and pages and pages.

It's such a flawed gem, but yeah, to this day I haven't ran into a game that has ever attempted anywhere near its scope. It'll never happen, because lessons were learned, and because narrative-driven games just aren't as lengthy anymore, and because there's really only one Tetsuya Takahashi, and he's kind of stopped trying, to be honest.

There will never be another with that ambition.
So much was attempted in gears it just fills my mind with fuck.
And even though i love saga and blade, yeah i kinda agree that that same effort hasnt gone in again.
And Im not laughing about that spiritual comment, I get it.
Playing gears and watching EVA at a certain time in my life put me through weird shit.

 

[JeffZero]

I definitely would not have cut Billy, yikes. Sure, his plot goes nowhere after the Aquvy arc, but that's some vital stuff in there while it lasts. Lots of faith introspective, fleshing out the Ethos, hinting at things to come.

Plus his own father ends up eclipsing him in terms of amount of relevance and badassery thereafter, which is a bit odd since Jessie isn't playable but never would have been given the chance to happen in such a heartfelt manner if Billy weren't in the game. Their connection is a great one.

Jesiah is such a cool character. Cut Billy and you cut his build-up.

 

[Jarmel]

Also, you say that Xenoblade is infinitely better mainly with its characters, but then go on to praise the characters in this game as if it's actually really good. Seems like there's a disconnect.

That should say how much I liked Xenoblade's characters. Despite party members in Xenoblade getting neglected near end-game, they felt like a group of friends. For a RPG party I think that's critical. Xenogears never got to that level, mostly because there aren't many party dialogue sequences in disk 2. Sigurd, Citan, and Jessie naturally had that camaraderie in disk 1 but it never fully extended out to say Maria or Rico.

I would also note that for Xenogears, Fei and Elly do have more depth than any of the characters in Xenoblade. However Shulk, Fiora, and Dunban execute better with what they have. Shulk's story is a bit more personal and so I think works better as a driving force for him however it doesn't have say the thematic depth that Fei's story does.

Holy moly, that's a lot to read!

I actually like Xenogears dungeons, I think I'm one of the fews. <_< Expect the waterway in the tournament arc, because tournament arcs suck anyway and Xenogears had two too many.

Never had fuel problems either. Since level doesn't matter on gear, as long you you use your attacks (.e. Do not spam the strong one, use Elly's magic) things should go smoothly.

The fuel problem was really only an issue in three maybe four dungeons. The two that stick in my mind would be obviously be Babel and the final one. Both of which are mostly due to length without a repair bot. Even spamming triangle attacks will drain you if you're not oneshotting enemies. I had almost zero fuel when fighting Seibzehn because I burned all the fuel just getting up those elevators. The last dungeon has more repair bots but due to the damn complexity of that maze, it makes it a pain to find them and backtrack to them. Due to the way the game sometimes springs bosses on you, it's annoying when you finally get up to a boss and you can't refuel. I think the Goliath factory was a case where you hack your way through a dungeon only for them not to refuel your Gear before a boss fight.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I definitely would not have cut Billy, yikes. Sure, his plot goes nowhere after the Aquvy arc, but that's some vital stuff in there while it lasts. Lots of faith introspective, fleshing out the Ethos, hinting at things to come.

Plus his own father ends up eclipsing him in terms of amount of relevance and badassery thereafter, which is a bit odd since Jessie isn't playable but never would have been given the chance to happen in such a heartfelt manner if Billy weren't in the game. Their connection is a great one.

Jesiah is such a cool character. Cut Billy and you cut his build-up.

Billy didn't have to be playable, is what I'm saying. In fact, replacing him with Jesiah would have worked infinitely better for the story, as he is more relevant to the plot than Billy is by a longshot. Alternatively, replace Billy with Jesiah after Aquvy.

Say what you will about his importance during that arc, but he's definitely tacked on to the rest of the game.

I also just hate the D-block arc (which is largely pointless) and the Aquvy arc (which is poorly written, especially in regards to giving backstory on Jesiah and making

Spoiler

Bishop Stone (OR SHOULD I SAY STEIN)

a believable, interesting villain) in general. The sewers, the arena, the random zombie hunting, the ridiculous orphanage with a built in launch pad for Billy's gear, everything.

 

[JeffZero]

Billy didn't have to be playable, is what I'm saying. In fact, replacing him with Jesiah would have worked infinitely better for the story, as he is more relevant to the plot than Billy is by a longshot. Alternatively, replace Billy with Jesiah after Aquvy.

Say what you will about his importance during that arc, but he's definitely tacked on to the rest of the game.

I also just hate the D-block arc (which is largely pointless) and the Aquvy arc (which is poorly written, especially in regards to giving backstory on Jesiah and making

Spoiler

Bishop Stone (OR SHOULD I SAY STEIN)

a believable, interesting villain) in general.

I dig the Aquvy arc, but I can see the complaints. It isn't the best-written portion of the game or anything, but it helps make the world seem all the bigger, reminds us there are heroes and demons in every corner, and... of course, obviously the Zeboim Ruins section is a big main-arc portion, too.

I like your Jesiah idea, though, actually. He totally should have been the playable party member out of that pair.

 

[Psxphile]

The fuel problem was really only an issue in three maybe four dungeons. The two that stick in my mind would be obviously be Babel and the final one. Both of which are mostly due to length without a repair bot. Even spamming triangle attacks will drain you if you're not oneshotting enemies. I had almost zero fuel when fighting Seibzehn because I burned all the fuel just getting up those elevators. The last dungeon has more repair bots but due to the damn complexity of that maze, it makes it a pain to find them and backtrack to them. Due to the way the game sometimes springs bosses on you, it's annoying when you finally get up to a boss and you can't refuel. I think the Goliath factory was a case where you hack your way through a dungeon only for them not to refuel your Gear before a boss fight.

I remember having fuel problems the first time I played Xenogears. In a later playthrough I realized you can get bonus Fuel units during Charge by raising a gear's Attack Level (Lv.0=30, Lv.1=50, Lv.2=70, Lv.3=90). Fuel was never a problem after that. Then there's those Charger accessories that increase the base amount of fuel recovery, but I don't think I ever needed to use those. I prefer to beef up Ether Amp and go to town with Elly/Esmeralda's magic.

 

[Shin Kojima]

I was always insanely annoyed by the misspelling of Siebzehn.

 

[Poetic]

My favorite game of all time even with the bad second disc. I probably wouldn't enjoy playing it today though.

 

[Taruranto]

By the way, you should probably check A Rope of Robots. Hilarious stuff.

http://www.whatdoesgodneedwithastarship.com/

 

[Jarmel]

By the way, you should probably check A Rope of Robots. Hilarious stuff.

http://www.whatdoesgodneedwithastarship.com/

This may be explained sixty hours from now, but it will never actually make sense without or even with the three hundred page supplementary texts. Welcome to Xenogears.

hahahaha

Yea this should be fun to read.

Even after reading Perfect Works I still don't have a clear understanding of how the Wave Existence, the initial Miang, and initial Ellie all interconnect.

 

[Meneses]

One of my top 3 games for sure.

Btw, I loved Billy's story and having him as a playable character.

 

[Lulubop]

This is the greatest let's play of any game ever, made even moreso after you've beaten the game and become aware of all of its inconsistencies.

I wish this game was finished. I agree with the poster who said Rico and Billy should have been cut, especially because they don't even finish Rico's storyline. The game dedicated so much time to Kislev and D-block that half of disc 2 could have taken its place.

Dblock is the best part of the game.

 

[Muffdraul]

Were you aware Krellian's original name was Karellen, before the localization staff got ahold of it? Lots of name-as-references got butchered.

 

[legacyzero]

ALL a great game.

I know Disc 2 was weak, but it's still great.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Dblock is the best part of the game.

Are you, by chance, a fan of masochism?

 

[Jazzy Network]

Fucking hate how incomplete this game was. It wasn't even like oh they left a few things out. Fucking left like 30% if not more out.

 

[Jarmel]

Were you aware Krellian's original name was Karellen, before the localization staff got ahold of it? Lots of name-as-references got butchered.

No I wasn't. I figured he was a reference though. Seems like the translation was a hackjob.

BTW does anyone know if the Soylent stuff had the same name in Japanese? It's so on the nose that I figured out the twist the moment they mentioned the name.

 

[BocoDragon]

Such a fantastic mess this was. Half a great game indeed. It's so clearly unfinished and broken, but what was there was the most ambitious thing ever.

 

[staticneuron]

Yeah, playing this at a certain age is a ridiculously spiritual experience. Like, call me crazy for saying that. Go ahead. Do it. But dammit it's the truth. Or perhaps I should say, the -Truth-. Bah, you -Lambs- wouldn't understand!

For me it touched so many subjects that it actually left me thinking about how our world works as well and what the accepted truth is.

For example, this game shows you history that spans thousands of years and several civilizations. The game actually shows you how time, power and influence can not only alter peoples perceptions of the truth but also how it is possible for on civilization to control another through power of information.

Because it is Xenogears of course, that also translates over to the religious aspect and the effect of time and belief.

There is alot more the game touches but what always set my mind to philosophical concepts was the wave existence. It is a very simple concept to understand in theory but not simple to actually picture a mental image of what it would be like to be the existence or to come across it.

hahahaha

Yea this should be fun to read.

Even after reading Perfect Works I still don't have a clear understanding of how the Wave Existence, the initial Miang, and initial Ellie all interconnect.

It doesn't exactly. This is the plainest explanation I can give for what I understand of the story. It starts with Deus which is basically an organic weapon used for interplanetary invasions. The people that created Deus used an ancient artifact made by a previous civilization on earth to to power the device. That artifact is called Zohar. When the Deus weapon was activated for the first time it somehow trapped the wave existence in the Zohar. The wave existence is a being from another dimension entirely.

Initial Miang was created by Deus for the sole purpose of rebuilding and reviving the damaged weapon so it can repair itself (probably like a prime directive) Every female is on the planet is a decedent from initial miang and possess the genes for the Miang (deus survival programing) to activate. So Miang is less of a person but more of a Bot created by Deus that has a singular purpose to her actions.

Elly was actually created by the Wave Existence (the being trapped inside the Zohar) as a companion to Abel ( the first human to make contact with the wave existence). The Wave Existence wants out of the current universe so you can say Elly and Abel are its counter agents that it uses to destroy Deus so it can return to its original dimension.


.......... That is alot of text for a simple explanation isn't it?

 

[Overside]

Nice impressions. In a perfect world I suppose they would have rethought their planning, trimmed the story, and fit it all with the gameplay in mind, but I feel that would've been tough. Perhaps not knowing whether they'd ever get a chance at telling this story again, they decided to cram it all in any way they could, and it really is a mess, but personally I'm glad they did it. The best part of the narrative for me is the hints of how grand the scope of the story is and Xenogears throws a kitchen sink of timelines and generations in its second disc. Getting to play it all would've have been amazing, but at least seeing it is something I'd preferred to an edited version.

In a perfect world, square wouldnt have pulled funding for the game half way through production, forcing them to cobble together a frankensteinian concotion of absolute greatness and sheer bollocks with what they had available.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Looking back on it now, it's easy to pick at the game for all it's faults, but at the time it was the most ambitious story in a game I had ever came across.


For that, it's a classic in my book.



...and it had mechs and kung-fu!

 

[Jarmel]

It doesn't exactly. This is the plainest explanation I can give for what I understand of the story. It starts with Deus which is basically an organic weapon used for interplanetary invasions. The people that created Deus used an ancient artifact made by a previous civilization on earth to to power the device. That artifact is called Zohar. When the Deus weapon was activated for the first time it somehow trapped the wave existence in the Zohar. The wave existence is a being from another dimension entirely.

Initial Miang was created by Deus for the sole purpose of rebuilding and reviving the damaged weapon so it can repair itself (probably like a prime directive) Every female is on the planet is a decedent from initial miang and possess the genes for the Miang (deus survival programing) to activate. So Miang is less of a person but more of a Bot created by Deus that has a singular purpose to her actions.

Elly was actually created by the Wave Existence (the being trapped inside the Zohar) as a companion to Abel ( the first human to make contact with the wave existence). The Wave Existence wants out of the current universe so you can say Elly and Abel are its counter agents that it uses to destroy Deus so it can return to its original dimension.

.......... That is alot of text for a simple explanation isn't it?

Well in Perfect Works there is some stuff about how Ellie came from initial Ming(not just the gene component) in that the original Ming got split up into the Ming system and Ellie. It then seems like the Wave Existence jacked Ellie into being Abel's mother.

The information about the Persona system is kinda confusing.

 

[Macapala]

I will forever go on record saying that I loved the second disc, the story and music is phenomenal. On top of that, it's a well deserved break from the terrible dungeons of the first disc.

 

[Ranma]

in a perfect world square would do a remake of this game and actually complete/polish/correct it.
great, great stuff.

 

[Taruranto]

The original Miang is the chick in the Zohar (as INSIDE the Zohar's eye) you see briefly in one of the end-game CS. Abel gave her the "mother" factor when he first contacted with her. When Miang is ON Elly is OFF and vice-versa. I think. My memory is always a bit fuzzy about the whole thing. There are some contractory infos about the whole thing as you can expect, given the clusterfuck of developemnt that Xenogears was. The game's script sometimes contradicts the PW (and vice-versa) on small details... I wouldn't dwell on it too much.

Spoiler

You know, videogame plots.

AC's Xeno-Site has a lot interesting analysis and whatnot on the Xenoverse, too bad the site went down a year ago or two. The archive version still exists.

http://web.archive.org/web/20121122111655/http://xenoverse.xenotensei.com/xenogears.htm