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[The Faceless Master]

i hope they do get what they want... and then maybe after they get decent wages for the time they put in, the people who actually work on the game will get jealous, smarten up, band together and actually get fair compensation themselves.

 

[myca77]

Oops

Oops accidentally quoted myself. Please ignore and resume normal service.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Maybe if these negotiations pan out for those wanting more compensation, this will force game developers to stop with the "everything cinematic" nonsense and actually focus on gameplay first, instead of as an afterthought?

On the contrary, I think they'll keep investing tons of money into VAs and then try to recoup the cost with microtransactions and DLC...

It's easy to say that VAs should be paid more (and I don't disagree with that btw). But would people accept a price increase in their games, then? I doubt it.

 

[Nanashrew]

This is more to do with how the VO is implemented in the game, and the dialog system the game uses and less to do with the acting. There are only so many ways an actor can say they are throwing a grenade.

Generic barks in games can break a game if not done correctly. But it's in the writing and the way the game handles it. If the game has the same barks repeating over and over then it's badly designed.

And 90% of the voice acting, no, more like between 30% and 50%. But it feels like more because of how they can be repeated ad-nauseum in a badly designed game.

Edit.

Also I don't think you realise how much VO there is in most big titles, anywhere between 10,000 to 30,000 lines of dialog dependant on the type and scope of the game.

The lines of dialogue is important and can extend to so many different parts of the game. I don't even know how many lines of dialogue Xenoblade X has, only that the devs said that the battle dialogue alone has 11,000 lines of it that some of the VAs lost their voice for awhile which is almost unheard of.

 

[Frog-fu]

I wholehearted support this, but that is one terrible choice of words for a hashtag. Like, just awful.

 

[BlastProcessing]

They should be happy with having a job and being part of this unique art form. If they want to be greedy, the door is right next to them. They can take that so-called "talent" somewhere else. I play games to PLAY--not to listen to some B-tier wanna be who couldn't make it in Hollywood.

"[Video] games are more like cars or books or comics. The creators aren't the focus. The creation is." --Danny O'Dwyer

Yeah Videogames are like cars! And just like people in the Auto industry have never been able to unionize in an effort to protect themselves from predatory employers, neither should people who make games!

I am unclear who is allowed to be greedy in this equation and who is not. You are obviously allowed to greedily demand that games only be made that pertain to your interests. Publishers are definitely allowed to be greedy in their attempts to shield voice actors from residual profits. But woe be into a voice actor for asking for a piece of the industry's growing profits. Greedy bastards.

Sheesh.

 

[skyhaven]

If this turns into added price tag for games, I probably would not be happy about it.
And knowing how most corporate would prefer to throw the costs to customers, it's more likely than not. They have a valid reason. 'You want quality VA? Pay more'

 

[benicillin]

If this turns into added price tag for games, I probably would not be happy about it.
And knowing how most corporate would prefer to throw the costs to customers, it's more likely than not. They have a valid reason. 'You want quality VA? Pay more'

This is doom bringer nonsense. And it's not the voice actors fault at all, if any publisher (and I sincerely doubt they would) tried to pass off a meager and fair increase to VA pay to customers by increasing the cost of a game, then they should rightfully get roasted and burned the fuck out by the press and everyone else.

I don't feel bad for publishers at all - voice actors have a huge part in a medium that we all love and we should support them looking to get fair pay and treatment. If publishers want to throw a fit about it (which come on, they aren't going to), then we take it up with the publishers.

 

[myca77]

The lines of dialogue is important and can extend to so many different parts of the game. I don't even know how many lines of dialogue Xenoblade X has, only that the devs said that the battle dialogue alone has 11,000 lines of it that some of the VAs lost their voice for awhile which is almost unheard of.

That sounds about right in comparison to most "big" games I've worked on recently, between 5,000 and 10,000 narrative and 5,000 to 10,000 barks. If anything with the new Gen scripts are increasing in size.

One of the more popular titles I worked on a good few years ago (FIGS lead dialog editor woot) had over 30,000 (over 50,000 when you included the DLC too) lines of dialog per language. Ahh them were the days, many a late pizza night trying to maintain that schedule, but alas I'm going off point with all this reminiscing

 

[Quavillion]

Yeah no it doesn't work like that. And calling someone like Nolan North and Troy Baker (extremely likable and well respected by the way) "B-Tier" is one of the dumbest statements I've heard on an internet forum. And if people are investing time into something, they have to be compensated properly.

Nolan North and Troy Baker are not in the union... Should inform yourself a bit more.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Nolan North and Troy Baker are not in the union... Should inform yourself a bit more.

You know what I mean though. Most Voice actors aren't B-tier.

 

[AAK]

Something tells me publishers will take advantage of this by marking the MSRP of games up another $10 citing this as the reason.

 

[benicillin]

Something tells me publishers will take advantage of this by marking the MSRP of games up another $10 citing this as the reason.

This is so ridiculous! Stop with these arguments. Stop with them. It's crazy talk.

 

[skyhaven]

This is doom bringer nonsense. And it's not the voice actors fault at all, if any publisher (and I sincerely doubt they would) tried to pass off a meager and fair increase to VA pay to customers by increasing the cost of a game, then they should rightfully get roasted and burned the fuck out by the press and everyone else.

I don't feel bad for publishers at all - voice actors have a huge part in a medium that we all love and we should support them looking to get fair pay and treatment. If publishers want to throw a fit about it (which come on, they aren't going to), then we take it up with the publishers.

Ah yes, the same doombringer nonsense that continues to happen.
Ever seen box prices get up to $70?
Did you see any mid level game developer cheering their pay raise?
I don't. They only expanded the team. Increased the budget.
Roasted by the media.
HAHAHAHA ohwow. Please. You put too much stock on gamer's power of social responsibility. They want to play good games, not improve people's lives.

 

[myca77]

This is so ridiculous! Stop with these arguments. Stop with them. It's crazy talk.

These greedy actors are trying to jack up the price of our games, get the pitchforks out

 

[TheSlySoul]

I think Voice Actors for games should follow the TV show payrate.
A movie payrate makes little sense.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Ah yes, the same doombringer nonsense that continues to happen.
Ever seen box prices get up to $70?
Did you see any mid level game developer cheering their pay raise?
I don't. They only expanded the team. Increased the budget.
Roasted by the media.
HAHAHAHA ohwow. Please. You put too much stock on gamer's power of social responsibility. They want to play good games, not improve people's lives.

I guess most gamers are asshole's then. Makes sense. (I'm kidding btw but this thread is bringing out the worst posts in people)

 

[Skux]

This has been bubbling ever since that Rockstar lawsuit with the Niko voice actor for GTAIV. People have this perception that voice and performance capture is somehow 2nd tier when compared to live action and the industry has gotten away with underpaying their talent for years as a result.

 

[skyhaven]

I guess most gamers are asshole's then. Makes sense. (I'm kidding btw but this thread is bringing out the worst posts in people)

They're not.
They're the ones getting screwed in the end.
We've seen this happen with Digital Distribution promising convenience and cheaper costs to the publishers.

GTA5 is still at max retail price.
Even when sales came they gave you....some in-game currency DLC instead of a discount.
No effs were given. So please tell me how they'll resolve this VA deadlock without passing the cost to consumers?

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

They're not.
They're the ones getting screwed in the end.
We've seen this happen with Digital Distribution promising convenience and cheaper costs to the publishers.

GTA5 is still at max retail price.
Even when sales came they gave you....some in-game currency DLC instead of a discount.
No effs were given. So please tell me how they'll resolve this VA deadlock without passing the cost to consumers?

Look if the price of games raise because of this (it won't), blame the publishers not the voice actors. It's been said multiple times.

 

[cartman414]

It is a bit lesser on the priority ladder in terms of the quality of the final product.

If they deserve better pay rates, so do the developers/localizers/etc. It is they who provide the jobs for/help the VAs.

 

[the_batman]

so Nolan North, Troy Baker, David Hayter and Laura Bailey want more money?

nah, i'm joking. the voice actors put in a lot of work and some of these games like GTAV make huge amounts of money. i wonder how well Michael, Trevor and Franklin's voice actors are doing these days?

 

[benicillin]

It is a bit lesser on the priority ladder in terms of the quality of the final product.

If they deserve better pay rates, so do the developers/localizers/etc. It is they who provide the jobs for/help the VAs.

Okay and when developers and localizers and all those people try to better their situation we should all support them then, and I will, but until that point posts like this add literally nothing to the conversation.

 

[Regiruler]

Will this pave way for a return of shitty, yet hilariously charming bad voice acting?


Starting to feel nostalgic for the video game voice acting from the '90s.

Dogs of the SGA, time they made a move

 

[GillianSeed79]

Now the programmers need to be unionized, too.

I imagine the reason why they haven't is probably because there is probably an endless pool of 20-to-30-something programmers willing to subject themselves to terrible labor conditions, lack of job security, middling pay and long hours for a chance to work in the game industry whereas there is probably a smaller pool of talented voice actors in the business publishers and developers can rely on.

 

[cubicle47b]

It's the working conditions for developers, not the pay, that concerns me. It's the primary reason I never went into the industry.

 

[JC Sera]

They're not.
They're the ones getting screwed in the end.
We've seen this happen with Digital Distribution promising convenience and cheaper costs to the publishers.

GTA5 is still at max retail price.
Even when sales came they gave you....some in-game currency DLC instead of a discount.
No effs were given. So please tell me how they'll resolve this VA deadlock without passing the cost to consumers?

wow this line of thinking is so BS
"I don't want people to be paid a fair amount for their work, because their employers will pass the cost onto me, and unless you tell me why they wont do this I can't support this cause"
like jfc they have every right for this, don't rally against them, rally against shitty publishers
nobody is obligated to provide you a reason on why the cost wont be passed on to you

 

[Sinatar]

It's cool that they are doing this but the fact of the matter is that *most* gamers don't give a toss about who's voicing a game. If their name isn't going to move copies then publishers will just hire new talent willing to work for less.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

It's cool that they are doing this but the fact of the matter is that *most* gamers don't give a toss about who's voicing a game. If their name isn't going to move copies then publishers will just hire new talent willing to work for less.

Most strikes don't really effect consumers.

The union cares about making it easier and cheaper for management to get closer to their demands. Not what some dude playing call of duty thinks.

 

[Nanashrew]

It's cool that they are doing this but the fact of the matter is that *most* gamers don't give a toss about who's voicing a game. If their name isn't going to move copies then publishers will just hire new talent willing to work for less.

But voice actors can also become THE character to a person that it's impossible to separate the voice from that character. Charles Martinet will always be Mario, James Arnold Taylor will always be Ratchet, David Hayter will always be Snake.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Voice actors play a huge and important part in modern video games, so I can't think of any reason to disagree with their movement. If it leads to my favourite voice actors getting some better pay and working conditions, then good for them!

Gotta say, the hazard pay for strenuous voicework is a good idea, too. IIRC Mark Hamill's iconic Joker voice is bad for him, which is why Arkham Origins had the other dude voicing Joker. I'm sure other VA's face similar struggles, though you'd never hear about it.

#VOmatterthecost

(I am bad at hashtags.)

 

[Quavillion]

Ugh. This sort of attitude, that artists shouldn't expect to be compensated for their work, is the worst.

I never said that artists should not be compensated for their work. It is a job and as such you get paid for what you sign up for. No more no less. When someone commisions an art piece the artist signs an agreement to get X amount of money for its craft. Voice actors are offered an X amount of money depending on their talent. It is on them to take the gig or not. No one is forcing them to work. It is what it is as simple as that.

Game directors and designers (the real creative masterminds behind the games) should get better pay and/or incentives for their work. If this was a union of directors/designers instead of the voice actors I be all in favor.

 

[Ravidrath]

Voice actors play a huge and important part in modern video games, so I can't think of any reason to disagree with their movement. If it leads to my favourite voice actors getting some better pay and working conditions, then good for them!

While I agree with it in principle, I certainly don't think they should be entitled to residuals and royalties before the people that actually spent years of their lives making the game.

While they contribute, no one buys a game for its voice casting.

Additionally, some of these actors can get paid six figures for a few days of work, far more than anyone that actually developed the game.

For example, I think it was True Crime 2... they paid Lawrence Fishburn like $1M to record for a day, and it was never used. The team crunched for like two years and Activision pushed it out in a terrible state, so they got laid off for all their efforts.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Seems reasonable enough. I don't know if I'm niave, but in hoping the increased pay, insurance for stressful performance, and transparency would actually lead to better voice actors overall.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Good. If the industry is making more money and they aren't seeing better wages to go along with it, they should unionize.

 

[Quavillion]

While I agree with it in principle, I certainly don't think they should be entitled to residuals and royalties before the people that actually spent years of their lives making the game.

While they contribute, no one buys a game for its voice casting.

Additionally, some of these actors can get paid six figures for a few days of work, far more than anyone that actually developed the game.

Finally someone who understands my point.

Developers > Voice Actors

 

[Nirolak]

When the music association and the video game industry couldn't come to an agreement, video games didn't use union composers for around 3-5+ years despite having to get new composers for almost every major series, so I'm not sure how good their odds are.

 

[cartman414]

Okay and when developers and localizers and all those people try to better their situation we should all support them then, and I will, but until that point posts like this add literally nothing to the conversation.

Unfortunately they've been too busy AFAIK to actually unionize.

When the music association and the video game industry couldn't come to an agreement, video games didn't use union composers for around 3-5+ years despite having to get new composers for almost every major series, so I'm not sure how good their odds are.

Really, huh? I'll have to ask Keith Arem of PCB about this.

 

[myca77]

Finally someone who understands my point.

Developers > Voice Actors

Whynotboth.gif

Fact of the matter is the actors have a union that's been going for quite some time, and it's the unions role to get a better deal for its members if at all possible.

What the actors are asking for has nothing at all to do with how the rest of the industry is run, and how staff are treated (needless to say it should do better).

 

[Ravidrath]

Whynotboth.gif

Fact of the matter is the actors have a union that's been going for quite some time, and it's the unions role to get a better deal for its members if at all possible.

What the actors are asking for has nothing at all to do with how the rest of the industry is run, and how staff are treated (needless to say it should do better).

Well, if this were to pass, I could see it triggering the unionization of the rest of the industry.

Which probably needs to happen, but it's going to be... tumultuous.

It's also going to greatly reduce profits and likely lead to an increase in game prices, too.

 

[Mushroomer25]

When the music association and the video game industry couldn't come to an agreement, video games didn't use union composers for around 3-5+ years despite having to get new composers for almost every major series, so I'm not sure how good their odds are.

I'm unfamiliar with the subject, so how well-established is the union for composers? SAG is a pretty serious deal, and if they wanted to flex their muscle - this could snowball into games becoming a no-go zone for actors who also work on film & TV.

 

[myca77]

Well, if this were to pass, I could see it triggering the unionization of the rest of the industry.

Which probably needs to happen, but it's going to be... tumultuous.

It's also going to greatly reduce profits and likely lead to an increase in game prices, too.

How would it greatly reduce profits?

If you take what the union wants, that if a game has sold enough so that it should have made a hefty profit their actors see a little bit of this, then I don't see how profits would be that diminished. If this kind of scheme was run across everyone who worked on a game then all that would change is where the profits go to. The people who created the game or the publishers and shareholders of said publishers who see almost all of the profits. Personally I'd like to see the creators get a better piece of the pie as they work really hard.

Granted the publishers still need to see a good return on their investment so they can fund their next game.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I never said that artists should not be compensated for their work. It is a job and as such you get paid for what you sign up for. No more no less. When someone commisions an art piece the artist signs an agreement to get X amount of money for its craft. Voice actors are offered an X amount of money depending on their talent. It is on them to take the gig or not. No one is forcing them to work. It is what it is as simple as that.

Game directors and designers (the real creative masterminds behind the games) should get better pay and/or incentives for their work. If this was a union of directors/designers instead of the voice actors I be all in favor.

The entire point is that no one is forcing them to work. That's exactly why they are threatening to strike. Like you said it's on them to take the gig or not, right? They are just doing it en masse.

There is no cosmic line that people have to wait in to ask for better conditions. Voice actors aren't cutting ahead of anyone else.

 

[Miracle]

I support unions so good for them.

However, I would like to see unions who also make the magic happen like the programmers, artists, etc.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Game prices are increasing anyways so that threat is as empty as it can get. If they don't get you straight up, it will be through microtransactions, DLC, or whatever else they can cook up.

While I agree with it in principle, I certainly don't think they should be entitled to residuals and royalties before the people that actually spent years of their lives making the game.

While they contribute, no one buys a game for its voice casting.

Additionally, some of these actors can get paid six figures for a few days of work, far more than anyone that actually developed the game.

For example, I think it was True Crime 2... they paid Lawrence Fishburn like $1M to record for a day, and it was never used. The team crunched for like two years and Activision pushed it out in a terrible state, so they got laid off for all their efforts.

Alright, I'm not in the game industry at all, but to me it seems that the question isn't "why should they" but instead "why don't I?" The current developer-publisher climate didn't happen out of nowhere. But that's an entirely different battle, on an entirely different battlefield--and one that devs will have to fight on their own--because right now it's the VA's turn.

As to why people buy games... they don't buy it for any one piece of content, but the collective effort of everyone--voice actors included. Metal Gear Solid V, for example, lost David Hayter as Snake which is something everyone playing has noticed, but it was still the collective effort of Konami and thus a game that people bought; David's absence wasn't dealbreaking because people wanted to play the game, but it was nonetheless a mournful loss that impacted the game negatively. So VA's matter, but are not a deciding factor, just like every other role in a game's development.

If things are to change, everyone needs to stick together.

Edit: Also, I'm pretty sure big-name Hollywood actors are in their own league, far, far above average video game voice actors. Even the popular ones.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

At least Zelda won't be delayed further if this strike goes through.

 

[Illucio]

I'm not for this strike actually, voice acting for video games is considered by actors not only the most easiest job there is, but the most steady with the best pay.
You have a lot of lines to say, but at the end of the day you did a ton of hours and made a lot of money. Unless you we're paid by contract, but if you we're paid by contract you get even more money.


To be honest I believe a lot of the artists and coders should be getting pay raises, not the actors.

 

[benicillin]

I'm not for this strike actually, voice acting for video games is considered by actors not only the most easiest job there is, but the most steady with the best pay.
You have a lot of lines to say, but at the end of the day you did a ton of hours and made a lot of money. Unless you we're paid by contract, but if you we're paid by contract you get even more money.


To be honest I believe a lot of the artists and coders should be getting pay raises, not the actors.

Lol what? You're wrong.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I'm not for this strike actually, voice acting for video games is considered by actors not only the most easiest job there is, but the most steady with the best pay.
You have a lot of lines to say, but at the end of the day you did a ton of hours and made a lot of money. Unless you we're paid by contract, but if you we're paid by contract you get even more money.


To be honest I believe a lot of the artists and coders should be getting pay raises, not the actors.

You're missing the point here. Try again.

 

[myca77]

While I agree with it in principle, I certainly don't think they should be entitled to residuals and royalties before the people that actually spent years of their lives making the game.

While they contribute, no one buys a game for its voice casting.

Additionally, some of these actors can get paid six figures for a few days of work, far more than anyone that actually developed the game.

For example, I think it was True Crime 2... they paid Lawrence Fishburn like $1M to record for a day, and it was never used. The team crunched for like two years and Activision pushed it out in a terrible state, so they got laid off for all their efforts.

You are massively over estimating what nearly all voice actors get paid, massively.

Granted if you hire a big Hollywood actor to do a bit in a game they sure as hell will get paid a lot more than the regular pool of voice actors. Just the same if you bring hanz zimmer into score a game, he's going to get paid a lot more than any "game" composer (which I know pisses them off).