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[Gahiggidy]

I just checked, and... The Gamecube Hut has no policy against selling AO games. (You'll just have to go around back to the employee entrance and ring the doorbell. Bring cash.)

 

[davepoobond]

dunno if its been said already but:

going off the list on wikipedia, Manhunt 2 would be the first "originally" rated AO game to appear on a major console, as opposed to GTA: SA which was re-rated.

also, can anyone see if Sony and MS have rules against licensing/selling any AO games? I know Nintendo does it because of that link earlier...

 

[Dalthien]

also, can anyone see if Sony and MS have rules against licensing/selling any AO games? I know Nintendo does it because of that link earlier...

I'm not sure if either MS or Sony has an official policy regarding AO titles, but even if they do, it wouldn't mean much, because if I recall correctly, both companies allowed retailers to continue selling GTA: San Andreas after it was reclassified as AO. Retailers simply put an AO sticker on their existing stock, and neither Sony nor MS forced retailers to stop selling the product. So both companies have already shown willingness to allow AO rated games to be sold for their consoles.

 

[miyamotofreak]

I could have sworn someone on EGM Live or 1up yours said this one was less grisly.

 

[JDSN]

I just checked, and... The Gamecube Hut has no policy against selling AO games. (You'll just have to go around back to the employee entrance and ring the doorbell. Bring cash.)

I predict 500k of copies sold in the first day.

 

[FitzOfRage]

This is pretty interesting:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000874859

So the interactivity is likely to be what pushed it over the edge. But how did Mortal Kombat on the Wii get away with interactive fatalities? And what could this mean for future Wii titles?

Well someone might take that quote out of context (it's a couple of years old, and talking about he Punisher on PS2/Xbox/PC). It's not referring to the control scheme, but the fact that players have control at all.

The point is that by virtue of being a video game, they feel the standard is different (so a scene that would be acceptable in an R rated movie might not automatically be acceptable in an M rated game because you have control over the game).

So it doesn't have implications specifically for Wii games.

I mean peopel have to remember, the ESRB raters don't actually play the games, they review videos.

dunno if its been said already but:

going off the list on wikipedia, Manhunt 2 would be the first "originally" rated AO game to appear on a major console, as opposed to GTA: SA which was re-rated.

also, can anyone see if Sony and MS have rules against licensing/selling any AO games? I know Nintendo does it because of that link earlier...

I'm pretty sure they all do. At the very least, Sony's response to BMX XXX a few years back (which was actually rated M in its original form) implies that they would have a problem with an AO game.

 

[speculawyer]

I predict 500k of copies sold in the first day.

Won't matter since NPD does not track them.

 

[davepoobond]

I'm not sure if either MS or Sony has an official policy regarding AO titles, but even if they do, it wouldn't mean much, because if I recall correctly, both companies allowed retailers to continue selling GTA: San Andreas after it was reclassified as AO. Retailers simply put an AO sticker on their existing stock, and neither Sony nor MS forced retailers to stop selling the product. So both companies have already shown willingness to allow AO rated games to be sold for their consoles.

that's what i was thinking, but most of the big retailers took that shit down from the shelves altogether. for a while the only big place you can get the game was on ebay.

also, it was a game that was already produced. manhunt 2 would be the first game that has the opportunity of not being licensed before it goes into production.

I'm pretty sure they all do. At the very least, Sony's response to BMX XXX a few years back (which was actually rated M in its original form) implies that they would have a problem with an AO game.

BMX XXX had a LOT of press behind it though. Manhunt 2 isn't at that point yet.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

and what about the 12yo kid who's parents were vigilint and didn't buy it, but then he goes over to the other 12yo kid's house who's parents are lazy and plays it there?

Is this situation greatly changed if it's an M game instead of an AO game?

Yeah, if I remember correctly, BMX XXX was uncensored on GCN, as was Killer 7 (moaning during the off screen sex scene was edited from the PS2 release).

Both M, though.

Thank you - I knew I wasn't imagining this. So as I said, Nintendo will either break it's "family-friendly" policy which has been a staple (which they will not do for this game, sorry Take-Two)

Ehh, staples change. They used to be so family-friendly that nothing we'd now consider M was kosher; most famously remembered from Mortal Kombat's blood being replaced by sweat.

think what you want... the control method has likely influenced their decision. what's so different about manhunt 1's content that allowed it an "M" rating?

Standards change, even when the content seems very similar. Super Smash Bros., Ocarina of Time: E. Super Smash Bros. Melee, Twilight Princess: T.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Did a quick search with keywords: Xbox.com, Policy, AO. First link was this:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/personality/xboxdad/20061031-whatsappropriate.htm

There's a section on AO rated games.

It is company policy that there are no AO games for Xbox® or Xbox 360.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

I don't think you can blame the ESRB or the BBFC....they're just adhering to their usual guidelines with regards to common decency. If everything I've heard about this game is true, then Rockstar have simply gone out to make the most malign, vicious game of all-time - Not something like Silent Hill which is disgusting yet beautifully crafted and with a strong, tragic story but something that is simply malign.

Something that is the "murder simulator" Jack Thompson ludicrously believes GTA to be, simply to spite him. Well, it's backfired.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Maybey one of us can get a hold of a review copy of ths game andwe can all "netflix" it around to each other.

 

[StranGER]

is it really necessary to have two different ratings for a 1 year age difference?

it's like M is 17+ (winkwinknotreallylol) and AO is the exact same thing except okwe'reseriousthistime... i mean wtf is the point >.>

i'm right there with ya, just make M 18 and up and get rid of AO alltogether.

 

[TigersFan]

I don't think you can blame the ESRB or the BBFC....they're just adhering to their usual guidelines with regards to common decency. If everything I've heard about this game is true, then Rockstar have simply gone out to make the most malign, vicious game of all-time - Not something like Silent Hill which is disgusting yet beautifully crafted and with a strong, tragic story but something that is simply malign.

Something that is the "murder simulator" Jack Thompson ludicrously believes GTA to be, simply to spite him. Well, it's backfired.

Uhmm.. the ESRB say nothing about the intent or meaning of the violence. Just that its there. Writing it off as a "murder simulator" simply because of the rating puts you at about the same level as Jack.

 

[{Mike}]

Did a quick search with keywords: Xbox.com, Policy, AO. First link was this:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/personality/xboxdad/20061031-whatsappropriate.htm

There's a section on AO rated games.

Who cares? Manhunt is not scheduled for these consoles

 

[FitzOfRage]

Writing it off as a "murder simulator" simply because of the rating puts you at about the same level as Jack.

Yeah, take away the rating, and I can't see any reason why somone might see it as a murder simulator (well that and the simulated murders ).

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Uhmm.. the ESRB say nothing about the intent or meaning of the violence. Just that its there. Writing it off as a "murder simulator" simply because of the rating puts you at about the same level as Jack.

I'm going by what I've been told about the game. It's unrelentingly bleak and the objective, quite literally, is to kill people in the most twisted and disgusting ways. It actually seems to be a pretty good game in terms of the mechanics, etc but there's no questioning where Rockstar were looking with this effort.

 

[TigersFan]

Yeah, take away the rating, and I can't see any reason why somone might see it as a murder simulator (well that and the simulated murders).

Pretty much. I mean, if you're into taking things only at face value then... well, that's pretty much what Jack Thompson does isn't it? Game A has violence in it -> Violence is bad -> Game A is bad. To hell with context.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Pretty much. I mean, if you're into taking things only at face value then... well, that's pretty much what Jack Thompson does isn't it? Game A has violence in it -> Violence is bad -> Game A is bad. To hell with context.

But killing people in extremely twisted ways *is* the context of this game. It was obviously made simply to make a game out of Thompson's comments.

GTA is chock full of pretty cutting humour and some nice satire. Unless I've been lied to, Manhunt 2 has nothing of the sort.

 

[TigersFan]

I'm going by what I've been told about the game. It's unrelentingly bleak and the objective, quite literally, is to kill people in the most twisted and disgusting ways. It actually seems to be a pretty good game in terms of the mechanics, etc but there's no questioning where Rockstar were looking with this effort.

Really? Most of the previews I've read have focused on the murdering and how you do it, but they all talk about the game having a fairly in depth plot about digging into the mind of a psychopath. I have no idea if the game goes in depth into that, but it sounds like an interesting premise to me at least.

I'll wait and see what comes out I guess. Maybe Rockstar was just poking fingers at Jack Thompson. If it is, I'll be really disappointed.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

I've heard that the plot is there but rather than be something with true gravitas like the SH series (or even a silly b-movie like RE) is more a pretty transparent device. It's weighted very much around the killing and the manner in which you do it with any psychological aspect an afterthought.

I could've been badly informed yesterday, who knows. I think I would be interested to play the game regardless but if true, I just think it's very silly and irresponsible of Rockstar to try this.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Who cares? Manhunt is not scheduled for these consoles

Some people asked if MS, or Sony had similar policies against AO rated games.

 

[bumpkin]

I don't know why the market is so against AO-rated games, the age difference between that and an M-rated game is just one year. Sell it as-is, **** censorship and **** parents who are stupid enough to buy it for their 12-year-olds.

And **** socially retarded kids who are idiotic enough to not know the difference between reality and fantasy, and try to mimic what they see in games.

 

[Spayro]

probably because of the part where you chop off a girl's tit with a lightsaber and wear it around a hospital as a hat. tough shit.

 

[Galactic Fork]

You know, the only thing that pisses me off about this is that it effectively prevents the game from being available to the mass market. If only stores would actually be reliable to NOT sell AO games to minors, they could actually carry it. Look at alochol and cigarettes. Both require you be a certain age to purchase, and you can buy them at friggen grocery stores. Why? Cause the store gets hit with a massive fine if they sell to children.


And the constantly brought up 12 year old kid who might go to a friend's house to play manhunt 2 can also drink and smoke, but stores continue to sell alcohol and cigarettes.

I don't even want Manhunt 2, but things like this really bug me.

 

[Saoh]

btw, i just checked amazon...

why are the PS2 and PSP versions $40 and the Wii version $50??

extra 10 for waggle?

 

[Galactic Fork]

btw, i just checked amazon...

why are the PS2 and PSP versions $40 and the Wii version $50??

extra 10 for waggle?

And the progressive gore on the main character, the blood sticking to the camera, and the feeling of actually slitting someone's neck instead of just pressing the triangle.

 

[Gio_CoD]

Ok, so I admit it, this kind of makes me want the game more now.

 

[Deleted member 20415]

I think the gaming community in general is supportive of the AO rating.

This game was sorta on my radar, but I wasn't fully interested - just checked it out here and there... now? I'll buy it on principle alone if it's AO.

I say, dear soldiers, if this isn't rated AO, the terrorists have won.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I think the gaming community in general is supportive of the AO rating.

This game was sorta on my radar, but I wasn't fully interested - just checked it out here and there... now? I'll buy it on principle alone if it's AO.

I say, dear soldiers, if this isn't rated AO, the terrorists have won.

In most countries AO is not a problem. It is just called 18+ and can be bought in the shops just as well.

 

[Razoric]

Maybe Rockstar will release a downloadable AO version for the PC. If they announce that before the gimped M rated versions are released, **** the consoles.

 

[LOCK]

I can't wait for the R* and Nintendo comments about the AO ratings.

Hopefully it will be like this:

Nintendo: "We will support R* and their AO game"

R*: "**** all the haters."

 

[Joe211]

I can't wait for the R* and Nintendo comments about the AO ratings.

Hopefully it will be like this:

Nintendo: "We will support R* and their AO game"

R*: "**** all the haters."

no way Nintendo won't support this game

 

[Threi]

no way Nintendo won't support this game

Well that's good to hear.

 

[Mason]

Didn't this same thing happen for The Punisher? It got slapped with an AO so they changed some camera angles and made the kills black and white and released it as M.

But yeah, the rating system really needs changed. M should be 18+ and it should be strictly enforced. Problem solved.

I really wish they'd release this with an AO rating. Not because I'm some sick bastard who wants to see extreme violence, but because I hate seeing games/movies neutered from their original state to please ratings boards. I want to play the game how they intended it to be played.

 

[Armitage]

This is probably a stupid question.

Can a game be released with no ESRB rating? Couldn't they just go Manhunt 2: UNRATED like a whole bunch of movies do?

 

[Mason]

This is probably a stupid question.

Can a game be released with no ESRB rating? Couldn't they just go Manhunt 2: UNRATED like a whole bunch of movies do?

I was wondering the same thing myself. I'm guessing they could, but similar to an AO title, most places won't carry it.

 

[Gio_CoD]

I was wondering the same thing myself. I'm guessing they could, but similar to an AO title, most places won't carry it.

I wonder if Sony/Nintendo/MS might require them to get their games rated in order to get release approval though.

 

[Matt]

This is probably a stupid question.

Can a game be released with no ESRB rating? Couldn't they just go Manhunt 2: UNRATED like a whole bunch of movies do?

Of course they COULD, but like Mason said, I doubt any retailers would sell the damn thing.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Well that's good to hear.

Why would that be good to hear?

 

[GC|Simon]

I need this game uncut. An AO-Rating rocks

 

[Father_Brain]

No AO version; neither Sony nor Nintendo will approve AO-rated content. If you're at all surprised by this, you really, really shouldn't be.

 

[Quazar]

Who cares? Manhunt is not scheduled for these consoles

Me. It's a valid concern.

 

[ManaByte]

No AO version; neither Sony nor Nintendo will approve AO-rated content. If you're at all surprised by this, you really, really shouldn't be.

This needed to be quoted if only for the people who ignored it the first time.

So either it's canned or not. I know someone testing it at Rockstar, and as of last week he still had a job. I wonder if he does today?

 

[Quazar]

No AO version; neither Sony nor Nintendo will approve AO-rated content. If you're at all surprised by this, you really, really shouldn't be.

Why not? I think this sucks. Unless I'm not understanding something here, but Sony/Nintendo are basically telling me what I cant play. So does this decision come down to them having to water down the game to please, exactly who? Politicians?

 

[ManaByte]

Unless I'm not understanding something here, but Sony/Nintendo are basically telling me what I cant play.

NO SHIT?

What part of first party concept approval is so hard to understand? All game makers have complete control over what games come out on their system. If they don't want the game on their system, it won't be on their system. End of story.

 

[Gowans]

BBC News discussion on this, seems to be a little more general public, its a good read.

 

[Father_Brain]

This needed to be quoted if only for the people who ignored it the first time.

So either it's canned or not. I know someone testing it at Rockstar, and as of last week he still had a job. I wonder if he does today?

No chance it's canned; they've put far too much money into it to do that. I assume that they'll appeal the rating; if that doesn't work, Rockstar will delay the game a few months, tone down certain parts of the game, resubmit it, and ship it with an M rating.

 

[soundwave05]

I'm pretty laid back when it comes to violent content, but I have to say if you're a parent -- you would be absolutely irresponsible to let your kid play this game, especailly the Wii build.

That said, I think for people over the age of 21 or whatever who want to be able to play this sort of thing ... fine, Nintendo and Sony should allow it.

Why do I also get the feeling that this is getting an AO-rating because of certain sex/nudity more than violence per se? Both the MPAA and ESRB are hypocritical in how much violence they'll allow in an M-rated or R-rated game/movie, but any type of sex and it's almost an automatic R-rating or a AO-rating in games.

You can chainsaw a zombies head off in Resident Evil 4, but I gauruntee if Leon had a sex scene with the president's daughter, that's AO right there.

BTW, Sony is even more uptight about this type of stuff than Nintendo is. Nintendo's policy is basically "anything the ESRB says is OK, is OK by us" and washed their hands of censorship after the Mortal Kombat fiasco. Sony still had issues with the topless strippers in BMX XXX and forced that out of the PS2 version.

Even with an M-rating make no mistake, this game will be a lightning rod for politicans this fall. Election season is ramping up, and this game has a big fat bulls eye on it.

 

[Mr_Furious]

Why not? I think this sucks. Unless I'm not understanding something here, but Sony/Nintendo are basically telling me what I cant play. So does this decision come down to them having to water down the game to please, exactly who? Politicians?

1. Nintendo/Sony has always maintained control of ALL content released on their platforms and it's not necessarily related to the ESRB ratings

2. The game will get "watered down" for the sake of getting an M rating by ESRB. It has nothing to do with any politicians.