It's an arbitrary notation that we only think of as standard because it's what it's how it's been done for like 30 years. It's going to make zero difference at high level, and if it brings casuals in, then that's great for everybody.
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Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite's more accessible controls & gameplay features explained
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
It's an arbitrary notation that we only think of as standard because it's what it's how it's been done for like 30 years. It's going to make zero difference at high level, and if it brings casuals in, then that's great for everybody.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I hope that's the case, cause let's say I got into a aircombo and to LP LP LK HP does the fact I pressed LP twice goes into the auto air combo? Maybe I'm confused
SkylineRKR
Member
I do hope the SRK thing is optional, down, down feels slower than the Z motion. I never had many issues with the Z motion on decent fight pads.
LordKasual
Banned
1) This better just be a "BURST" mechanic and not a full-on ability to damage someone who's already hitting you.
2) I'm all for accessibility, but there should be a limit to how much you coddle players. I mean there is so much shit that's harder than a shoryuken input in 2D fighting games.
It looks like Marvel Infinite is adopting Tekken's moveset control scheme, which is fine, it just removes the ability to balance moves by input difficulty, which is losing favor anyway these days.
But i'm really hoping that Infinite doesn't become the "Tekken Revolution" of marvel...
Akatsuki in UNIEL actually has a 22 motion for DP, and his DP hurts like hell. I'm pretty sure they did this because he's a disadvantaged melee character in a game where literally everyone had fullscreen normals.
It's easy to do and extremely easy to buffer, and you dont have to press forward to do it while blocking. It's just going to mean newbies are going to be DPing alot more than usual.
That all sounds great, I just hope mission mode and collectibles are very robust.
I don't have 100s of hours to practice FGs against friends anymore, so I'd much rather have ton of solo content & easy inputs.
FTFY kiddo
I don't have 100s of hours to practice FGs against friends anymore, so I'd much rather have ton of solo content & easy inputs.
FTFY kiddo
mrmickfran
Member
You should've seen the reaction to Nioh getting a pause button.
Simple mode (autocombo by mashing L) and two buttons hyper already exist in Marvel 3. Most of these things aren't going to bridge the gap, if anything they are going to be a crutch that will make players worse overall in the long run.
It helped for Persona? Yeah all those casuals playing Persona 4 really blew that game up... oh wait no it didn't.
These new accessibility changes are being overestimated.
People are still going to deal with BS mix ups, crazy pressure and absurd combos combined with mobility and stone shenanigans. It's still a Marvel game and that means new players are still going to get worked hard.
Magnet_Man
Member
It's possible to expand the special moves if the attack requires a specific button rather than different strengths of the same attack. BlazBlue and Guilty Gear do this, iirc. So you could theoretically have 12 special moves, more if you make some in-air only.
On the subject of the DP motion, I think what makes it intimidating to new players is the Z-motion icon is a little confusing. I think it would go a long way to have in parenthesis next to it on the command list list shortcuts or alternative ways to do the motion like "forward + QCF". Don't like charge moves being taken out even though I didn't use them. They encourage a creative playstyle while still being pretty easy to perform.
BronsonLee
Member
This reads like it's built in 100% though, not a separate mode
And P4A had a pretty decent life for an anime fighter, it was relatively accessible for even new people
Edit: Fuck
This is still totally accurate of course, people are going to get fucking worked hard, but this will help even things up a bit
I think this will be like SFxT for example, where it has some simple auto-combos wich were more limited and less damaging than the "manual tags" and other more advanced techniques that the players learned with time.
I mean, they are aiming for a game that it's easier for newcomers, but in the end it's Capcom, they know how to make 2D fighters, and they know a lot about the competitive scene, so probably the game will have a much richier gameplay than what this people that have tried it could discover.
I mean, they are aiming for a game that it's easier for newcomers, but in the end it's Capcom, they know how to make 2D fighters, and they know a lot about the competitive scene, so probably the game will have a much richier gameplay than what this people that have tried it could discover.
NoctisVsStar
Member
They'll drop it after a few L's online anyways.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
Its like that because that was the input for it in Akatsuki Blitzkampf
Stop acting like the goal is to get new players to be competitive players and start acting like the goal is TO GET PEOPLE TO BUY THE GAME AT ALL, have fun with friends fucking around in SP modes so that people that do care about being competitive can continue to get updates and characters.
Getting more people to play the game can potentially lead to more people wanting to be competitive, but they're never going to dip their toes in the water if they can't have fun being new to the game.
Newbs are still going to get crushed and this doesn't actually do anything to the competitive scene? Good. That's exactly the type of accessibility we want.
The majority of the FGC are actually bad players. The only reason they even beat lower level players/Newbies is because they spend hours in training mode practicing hard combos or setups.
When it comes to actually outplaying your opponent most of them are terrible at it. So now when the new game comes out they gotta shit on it to maintain their cool OG (2011) status.
As long as the game has depth and other mechanics to explore , easy controls dont really matter. Like whats so smart about pulling off a fkin half circle back motion anyway. If it makes the game more enjoyable for someone else so be it.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
This stuff is fine, inputs are only a part of the puzzle and this stuff goes a long way to keep new players determined to advance. Simplifying the inputs helps give the game an "easy to learn, hard to master" dynamic that makes any competitive game engaging to learn. I loved P4A's combat so more like that are welcome.
they are pretty terrible, but i think you see it in all "esports" types
i wish marvel fgs would stop catering to them and open up to the wider mainstream market with a focus on solo content
LordKasual
Banned
『Inaba Resident』;235043071 said:
oh
well, he still needed it, because in Late:EXE he was quite trash
Stuff that actually helps new players:
*Alternate dash or run that gives good mobility without need to wave dash. Otherwise there is going to be a huge variance in mobility between new and experienced players.
*Input buffer. I don't know if Marvel Infinite has it but if the game still has some link like combos then it's still going to be difficult to pull off combos for your average player.
*An actual Tutorial mode. There has to be a mode that teaches all these VS game mechanics. Super jump, advancing guard, tag mechanics, DHCs, bursts, stones, aerial rave, magic series, OTGs, air dashes, throws etc. The tag mechanic itself requires a massive tutorial by itself.
*Matchmaking that actually works and different online modes that aren't just Ranked/Casual with Lobbies.
*Single player mode that feeds players mechanics/moves/options piece meal so that players aren't overwhelmed with having to learn to play two characters from scratch.
There is probably a ton more things but we know from history that stuff like auto combo doesn't really make it easier for newcomers.
Most FGs have crap single player modes and don't teach mechanics/moves piecemeal. A FG single player mode has you playing against the AI with a full character. That's so bad for a new player.
Imagine if Capcom made a DMC game but gave you all the moves from the start and then put you against final boss tier enemies from the start. Veterans would love that shit but new players would get overwhelmed. That's exactly how it feels to play a fighter for new players. How do you expect people to have fun when they need to be able to play two characters and be switching between them on the fly?
Stuff that sells FGs are visuals (which Marvel is lacking right now hard), roster (which is probably going to be good long term), good online, great tutorials and great single player modes. What doesn't sell FGs is auto combo stuff.. we have that stuff around for years.
*Alternate dash or run that gives good mobility without need to wave dash. Otherwise there is going to be a huge variance in mobility between new and experienced players.
*Input buffer. I don't know if Marvel Infinite has it but if the game still has some link like combos then it's still going to be difficult to pull off combos for your average player.
*An actual Tutorial mode. There has to be a mode that teaches all these VS game mechanics. Super jump, advancing guard, tag mechanics, DHCs, bursts, stones, aerial rave, magic series, OTGs, air dashes, throws etc. The tag mechanic itself requires a massive tutorial by itself.
*Matchmaking that actually works and different online modes that aren't just Ranked/Casual with Lobbies.
*Single player mode that feeds players mechanics/moves/options piece meal so that players aren't overwhelmed with having to learn to play two characters from scratch.
There is probably a ton more things but we know from history that stuff like auto combo doesn't really make it easier for newcomers.
Because we have had these mechanics in FGs before and they didn't lead to better sales.
Most FGs have crap single player modes and don't teach mechanics/moves piecemeal. A FG single player mode has you playing against the AI with a full character. That's so bad for a new player.
Imagine if Capcom made a DMC game but gave you all the moves from the start and then put you against final boss tier enemies from the start. Veterans would love that shit but new players would get overwhelmed. That's exactly how it feels to play a fighter for new players. How do you expect people to have fun when they need to be able to play two characters and be switching between them on the fly?
Stuff that sells FGs are visuals (which Marvel is lacking right now hard), roster (which is probably going to be good long term), good online, great tutorials and great single player modes. What doesn't sell FGs is auto combo stuff.. we have that stuff around for years.
Easier inputs is something MK has always had over Street Fighter.
They went the Killer Instinct route. Which is smart.
If even a few players stick with it, it's a bonus. Good luck giving a pad to a new player in UMVC3 and tell them to do their moves they need to learn charge timings and SRK motions.
Just because it's easier for new players doesn't mean there's any less depth.
DaytimeWhiskey
Banned
I wonder if they will do KI style D,U + button or B,F + button if charge moves are truly gone
Edit: probably not D,U considering super jump
Edit: probably not D,U considering super jump
I don't have an issue with easier inputs at all, it's good that stuff like RDPs and HCs are removed. For a game like Marvel it's excellent that charge moves are gone because they had no place in this type of game, it just got in the way.
But that's different from auto combos and input buffers/short cuts.
Auto combos are a crutch and a noob trap combined with poor and lazy game design. You should see me pop off about that shit in a DMC game (yes those games have an auto combo feature too).
Doctrine Dark
Member
Why do people always over-exaggerate stuff that doesn't matter?
When has auto combos ever been relevant in...any setting?
Sometimes I think people just want to find reasons to be frustrated for the sake of it.
When has auto combos ever been relevant in...any setting?
Sometimes I think people just want to find reasons to be frustrated for the sake of it.
Space Runaway
Member
I hope they don't do the shoryu motion change or at least make it optional. While I can't speak for other players, for me personally, I find the DP motion gives me better input control whereas I find d,d too simple for how I play on pad. =P
Quite open to the rest though but then I've always been a casual when it comes to Marvel since the release of 2.
Quite open to the rest though but then I've always been a casual when it comes to Marvel since the release of 2.
CrimsonSquall
Member
Muh auto combo. Lmao if someone complains about this they deserve an ideal PERFECT KO
trapped in the shame cube
I've never liked having autocombos, as I think it teaches the wrong things, but it won't matter at the end of the day. I'm slightly more concerned about simplified DP inputs for moves. One of the reasons I don't really care that much for Persona 4 Arena is the single input DP. Depending on move properties, and how much of a presence iframes have, it could be a problem.
I don't really like what I'm reading, but I also don't think it will make much of a difference at all. I'D be more concerned if they dial down movement options and overall movement freedom because it's too confusing for newcomers.
I don't really like what I'm reading, but I also don't think it will make much of a difference at all. I'D be more concerned if they dial down movement options and overall movement freedom because it's too confusing for newcomers.
Looks like it's just a tag. No interruption of the actual combo, the other player is just controlling their partner who just ran in now. And you do get a big yellow flash warning you that this is about to happen. If you get Hypered by the incoming character that's on you, you got warned bigtime that the opponent just spent 2 bars to force you to defend for a moment.
And of course auto combos won't make newbies awesome immediately. But it gives a starting point that's better than nothing. And who knows, maybe you start branching out, maybe that Hyper at the end should be this Hyper instead, so you input that manually, or maybe you play with the tag timing to continue the combo with the other character, or insert a special move somewhere in it.
In short, you give the new player a basic tool and encourage them to expand on that. If the story mode teaches some things, like they suggested it might, you might end up with basically competent players much faster than you otherwise would.
I think my thing is that people should manage their expectations with these changes.
This is not going to make it "Marvel for babies". This is not going to bridge gap between experienced and new players. This is not going to make people learn the game quicker. If you had problems with Marvel games before then you will still have problems now.
This is not going to make it "Marvel for babies". This is not going to bridge gap between experienced and new players. This is not going to make people learn the game quicker. If you had problems with Marvel games before then you will still have problems now.
shadowstar
Member
I agree with this. The buttons are really no different. It's still 6 buttons you're constantly pressing. The face buttons were already your magic series in UMVC3. In fact, having to input d+hp is more complex than just pressing S.
I like the change back though. I wonder if hitting LP and LK twice will do a unique normal ala MVC2.
It seems a lot of people who don't really play Marvel are the ones writing these impressions. It's hard to really take what they're saying seriously without overreacting. I wish they would've let people like Chris, Yipes, or other pro players/scene personalities at the press event.
I remember when scrubs thought they could do well in Divekick and Rising Thunder because the games were simpler. Dedicated players will always win because they spend 10x the time the casuals do playing the game. dd+p will never get them out of getting hit with pressure and mix ups. They're probably going to get baited more than ever (like in P4A).
Karsticles
Member
Persona 4 Arena had a LOT of casual content, and given that it had a lackluster competitive scene, it's fair to say many people bought it for that reason.
A 2-hour story mode is unimpressive. You need a consistent flow of single player content to keep people engaged. Overwatch likey has a TON of people enjoying the new Horde Mode because they can't handle the stress of PvP.
origamipirate
Member
I just hope it's optional, seems the best of both worlds to me. I literally grew up in an arcade (one of my parents worked there) so I've been playing SF2 and onward since I was like 9, idk that my muscle memory can handle changing DP's input, lol
How are these accesibility features bad for the game?
Have you seen the gameplay? Game is Marvel levels of crazy.
Just finished a new video detailing this exact topic. Had a lot of fun with this one!
I don't think any of these gameplay features will have a huge impact on the metagame. This is largely Marvel 3 we're looking at with some tweaks.
I don't think any of these gameplay features will have a huge impact on the metagame. This is largely Marvel 3 we're looking at with some tweaks.
PfantzyPantz
Member
I definitely want great singleplayer content because I don't enjoy online randoms, but I do like the more accessible controls/ auto combo as that'll let my friend enjoy it a lot more.
Yeah, expectations for single player content are way higher than what Capcom is used to. Capcom hasn't had a single fighter launched in the past 10 years where they weren't lambasted for being stingy on content, or having a broken launch, or both. Sadly, I don't expect MVCI to be much different.
BronsonLee
Member
I'm a filthy casual and that's why I got it.
Karsticles
Member
BronsonLee
Member
Earth Wind and Fire sucks
Prism Sentence
Banned
With 2 button hyper execution the input buffer leniency better be like, non-existant
captmcblack
Member
I love the return to 6 button control, even if it's not the real/full LMH series that's worked out for almost 30 years and dozens of games.
I'm not sure of no charge/no half-circle/no 360 moves, because I'm not convinced that those kinds of inputs are what keeps casual players from getting into these games or getting better.
I love the autocombo/magic series, though I'm hoping it'll be like every other fighting game where there's freedom to create and innovate your own combos. I hope they didn't get rid of the depth of the systems in the name of making things supposedly easier.
Looking forward to this game...
I'm not sure of no charge/no half-circle/no 360 moves, because I'm not convinced that those kinds of inputs are what keeps casual players from getting into these games or getting better.
I love the autocombo/magic series, though I'm hoping it'll be like every other fighting game where there's freedom to create and innovate your own combos. I hope they didn't get rid of the depth of the systems in the name of making things supposedly easier.
Looking forward to this game...