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Media Create Sales: 11/10 - 11/16
- Thread starter Jonnyram
- Start date
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
MS internally developed:
Perfect Dark Zero
Kameo
Viva Pinata
Forza 2
Halo 3 (* company is no longer first party)
Shadowrun (* company no longer exists)
Viva Pinata 2
Fable 2
Banjo-Kazooie Nuts and Bolts
... upcoming from MGS:
Halo Wars (* company no longer exists)
Halo Chronicles (?--it's unclear if this counts, since it's a partnership between MS and Peter Jackson, and that's getting into the same territory as 1st party published 3rd party developed)
Both lists are exhaustive.
Of course it was.
... it just wasn't internally developed and Spiegel for some reason thought the distinction was relevant enough to raise.
Perfect Dark Zero
Kameo
Viva Pinata
Forza 2
Halo 3 (* company is no longer first party)
Shadowrun (* company no longer exists)
Viva Pinata 2
Fable 2
Banjo-Kazooie Nuts and Bolts
... upcoming from MGS:
Halo Wars (* company no longer exists)
Halo Chronicles (?--it's unclear if this counts, since it's a partnership between MS and Peter Jackson, and that's getting into the same territory as 1st party published 3rd party developed)
Both lists are exhaustive.
[Nintex] said:
Of course it was.
... it just wasn't internally developed and Spiegel for some reason thought the distinction was relevant enough to raise.
Cygnus X-1
Member
schuelma said:
Actually, I didn't expect any better in the middle of a recession.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
MotorStorm was not internally done by Sony, BTW. Evolution were bought after MotorStorm 1 but before MotorStorm 2. Can't give Sony any credit for it. It was externally developed! *gasp*
Except that who gives a damn about whether it was internally developed or outsourced? If it's shit, it's shit. If it's good, it's good. Mass Effect is still a triumph for Microsoft, Endless Ocean is still a solid experience on the Wii, and Afrika is by all accounts plenty good on the PS3.
... so, again, why do we care whether it was developed internally, commissioned, or pitched, if it's still got Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony on the box?
Spiegel said:I have my own reasons
Nintendo is a large company and the *best* first party studio so I'm expecting a bit more from them.
Being honest, I'm pretty disappointed with their Wii output so far (in number).
Except that who gives a damn about whether it was internally developed or outsourced? If it's shit, it's shit. If it's good, it's good. Mass Effect is still a triumph for Microsoft, Endless Ocean is still a solid experience on the Wii, and Afrika is by all accounts plenty good on the PS3.
... so, again, why do we care whether it was developed internally, commissioned, or pitched, if it's still got Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony on the box?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Link said:
or people just stop calling you on friday nights because they want to have a good time
Minsc said:
I'm not sure we can assume that simply from shipped-to-retailer numbers. I seriously doubt, for instance, that retailers thought they would sell the majority of their AC shipment the first week, esp. given the series' historically long legs.
Look, I'm not trying to say 300k+ is an amazing first-week number for this game, but I'd hardly call it bad or disappointing either. I'd call them "pretty good"
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Link said:
stiff upper lip, stout fellow.
Cygnus X-1 said:
The recession might be part of it, but it is not the main reason why the Wii numbers are low.
It is clearly the lack of new titles, together with the lack of bundles, colors, etc. It is time in Japan for a black Wii to show around, or to start making some bundles. A TvC Wii bundle would be great for the Wii, but of course, Nintendo won't do that.
Stumpokapow said:
I do. Because I'm wondering what the fuck is Nintendo doing internally and the new announcements only make it worse.
2008 and upcoming releases:
- Wii Music (okay I suppose, not for me)
- Super Smash Bros. Brawl (good)
- Animal Crossing (this has been in development for years? is this a joke?)
- Wii Sports Resort (okay, not for me)
- Pikmin (wiimakes? yeah nintendo)
- Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (the same)
- Mario Kart Wii (good)
- General Knowledge Training TV (...)
- Captain Rainbow (i don't know)
- Disaster: Day of Crisis (good, low budget)
The thing is that I don't like what I'm seeing. With all the money and the ease of development of the Wii I'd expect more from Nintendo
-Kh- said:
Of course.
So, with it being so obvious that the Wii would sell better with one of these:
then if Nintendo were worried about their sales they could do one, no? I'm sure Capcom would oblige.
So your certainty that it would help can only mean one thing: Wii is meeting expectations. PHEW! <slippy>I was worried for a moment</slippy>
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Super Smash Bros Brawl was not really internally developed and I'm not sure why it was on that list.
Okay but Nintendo tomorrow said "we are no longer developing anything internal" and outsourced everything and the quality did not change, why would it matter? What matters is the games Nintendo is publishing, not the games Nintendo is making. I can get why someone would be worried if Nintendo announced a certain franchise was being outsourced--but that's in the pre-release period. If the delivered product is quality and the company is paying for it and publishing it, what's the issue?
Again, why does it matter if Wario Land, Endless Ocean, or any other outsourced title is outsourced? Do you claim Sony sucks because the majority of their published games are done by outside devs?
... and I don't have a problem with that, but what I don't get is why it matters if Nintendo developed it internally or outsourced it, provided the quality is the same? I mean, no one would say "I expect more of Sony, why aren't they making quality titles like White Knight Chronicles, Little Big Planet, or Ratchet and Clank!?" because by definition they are getting those titles from Sony
Imagine if I did this:
NBA 07 (don't care about basketball)
NBA 08 (don't care about basketball)
NBA '09: The Inside (don't care about basketball)
MLB 07: The Show (don't care about baseball)
MLB 08: The Show (don't care about baseball)
Hot Shots Golf 5 (okay i guess, not for me)
Gran Turismo HD Concept (Japan Only) (lol demo)
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (lol demo)
MotorStorm 2 (same thing as motorstorm)
Formula One Championship Edition (don't care about f1)
Warhawk (good)
SingStar (singing game for girls)
SingStar Vol 2 (singing game for girls)
SingStar Vol 3 Party Edition (singing game for girls)
The Eye of Judgment (... magic cards lololololol)
My Summer Vacation 3? (hahaahhaha girl games? yeah sony!)
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (good)
hahaha out of all of sony's internally developed games only two of them are games i like!!!
Why isn't Sony making awesome games like LittleBigPlanet? How pathetic! Making gimmicky crap like SingStar and MLB! Pshaw! Shouldn't they learn from other devs and make cool stuff like Folklore or Ratchet and Clank? Just a truly awful company! Where's the hits like Resistance!? Gee, I wish Sony could get a franchise like SOCOM. I wish Sony was able to come up with stuff like MAG or inFamous. Pity Sony isn't good enough to make any of those games!
And Microsoft? Well, they're awesome. Good thing they didn't make duds like Fuzion Frenzy, Every Party, Vampire Rain, Tenchu Z, Too Human, or Ninety-Nine Nights! I really wish they'd make something like Alan Wake or Mass Effect, though
That's be stupid, because Sony DOES "make" LBP, Ratchet and Clank, Folklore, Resistance, SOCOM, MAG, and inFamous. They just do it through external companies. It's okay if you don't like Nintendo's games or direction, but what does it matter if they make the games internally or just publish them?
Spiegel said:
Okay but Nintendo tomorrow said "we are no longer developing anything internal" and outsourced everything and the quality did not change, why would it matter? What matters is the games Nintendo is publishing, not the games Nintendo is making. I can get why someone would be worried if Nintendo announced a certain franchise was being outsourced--but that's in the pre-release period. If the delivered product is quality and the company is paying for it and publishing it, what's the issue?
Again, why does it matter if Wario Land, Endless Ocean, or any other outsourced title is outsourced? Do you claim Sony sucks because the majority of their published games are done by outside devs?
... and I don't have a problem with that, but what I don't get is why it matters if Nintendo developed it internally or outsourced it, provided the quality is the same? I mean, no one would say "I expect more of Sony, why aren't they making quality titles like White Knight Chronicles, Little Big Planet, or Ratchet and Clank!?" because by definition they are getting those titles from Sony
Imagine if I did this:
NBA 07 (don't care about basketball)
NBA 08 (don't care about basketball)
NBA '09: The Inside (don't care about basketball)
MLB 07: The Show (don't care about baseball)
MLB 08: The Show (don't care about baseball)
Hot Shots Golf 5 (okay i guess, not for me)
Gran Turismo HD Concept (Japan Only) (lol demo)
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (lol demo)
MotorStorm 2 (same thing as motorstorm)
Formula One Championship Edition (don't care about f1)
Warhawk (good)
SingStar (singing game for girls)
SingStar Vol 2 (singing game for girls)
SingStar Vol 3 Party Edition (singing game for girls)
The Eye of Judgment (... magic cards lololololol)
My Summer Vacation 3? (hahaahhaha girl games? yeah sony!)
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (good)
hahaha out of all of sony's internally developed games only two of them are games i like!!!
Why isn't Sony making awesome games like LittleBigPlanet? How pathetic! Making gimmicky crap like SingStar and MLB! Pshaw! Shouldn't they learn from other devs and make cool stuff like Folklore or Ratchet and Clank? Just a truly awful company! Where's the hits like Resistance!? Gee, I wish Sony could get a franchise like SOCOM. I wish Sony was able to come up with stuff like MAG or inFamous. Pity Sony isn't good enough to make any of those games!
And Microsoft? Well, they're awesome. Good thing they didn't make duds like Fuzion Frenzy, Every Party, Vampire Rain, Tenchu Z, Too Human, or Ninety-Nine Nights! I really wish they'd make something like Alan Wake or Mass Effect, though
That's be stupid, because Sony DOES "make" LBP, Ratchet and Clank, Folklore, Resistance, SOCOM, MAG, and inFamous. They just do it through external companies. It's okay if you don't like Nintendo's games or direction, but what does it matter if they make the games internally or just publish them?
Liabe Brave
Member
The Sony list is wrong either way. If we include externally-developed titles it should actually read something like this:Stumpokapow said:
Afrika
The Eye of Judgment
Folklore
Formula One Championship Edition
Genji: Days of the Blade
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue
Heavenly Sword
Hot Shots Golf 5
MLB 07: The Show
MLB 08: The Show
MotorStorm
MotorStorm 2
My Summer Vacation 3
NBA 07
NBA 08
NBA 09: The Inside
SingStar
SingStar Vol 2
SingStar Vol 3 Party Edition
Siren: New Translation/Blood Curse
SOCOM: Confrontation
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom
Warhawk
That list doesn't at all seem to be just driving and yearly sports games as Weisheit claimed.
Liabe Brave
Member
I did read it. Rather than being a smartass, why don't you explain what point you want to make?Weisheit said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Liabe Brave said:
did you miss the entire point of this conversation?
did you miss the entire point of his post?
Spiegel raised a distinction between "internally developed" and "externally developed" when it comes to Nintendo. Everyone except Spiegel says this is ridiculous, and that you would never apply those standards to Sony or Microsoft.
The whole point is that just listing the internally developed games is not representative of the company's output.
Did you even read my post?
Stumpokapow said:
It was just a thought, I wasn't talking about Sony or Microsoft. It's only that seems like Nintendo is developing less games internally and I don't like that. It's obvious that the "expanded" audience is affecting their internal output and they are filling the holes publishing more games
And it does matter, outsourced games are usually worse than the games internally developed by Nintendo. Maybe they are good but they could be great. (imo)
Spiegel said:
For the last year or so they've simply released less stuff all-around. They only have one team dedicated to the casual stuff on the Wii, and they only have one game scheduled for release. On the DS, they have no casual games coming out. Hell, it's been what, 3 years since they did a Brain Age game?
Either the big teams are all working on new stuff (likely), or they're slowly transitioning to the next generation (slightly less likely). But I don't think there's some sort of mass-siphoning to casual games happening.
Liabe Brave
Member
Your civility knows no bounds.Stumpokapow said:
I understand exactly what you, Weisheit, and Captain Smoker are saying. My post responding to Weisheit wasn't saying that sphinx and Spiegel are correct. It was that, using the very logical inclusion of externally-developed games, the Sony list really does look more diverse than the Nintendo one. Hence Weisheit's (sarcastic) summation doesn't ring true.
sphinx is wrong, but that argument isn't why. The fact that external development under a platform holder's auspices is part and parcel of the first party's market positioning is why.
Kagari said:
Hasn't it just been two weeks at the current number? Remember what people were saying about "PS3 has a new baseline" back in January based on a couple of weeks' data? Sales will go up for New Year's period and probably for the PES 2009 release, but it's too early to say its number is "stable."
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Kagari said:
In Japan the PS3 is the same MSRP that the PS2 was when it launched. Also, out of the three big territories, the PS3 has been the cheapest in Japan then anywhere else. They even kept the 20 gig on store shelves for about a year. I really don't think a Japanese price cut is the same as a Europe or US price cut.
I think the interesting thing to consider among all of these "OMG! The Wii is dying!" comments is that the folks at Nintendo don't seem worried in the least. They have yet to drop the price, offer new colors or even offer a bundle - wouldn't they do one of these things, if not more, if they were worried that their position in the marketplace was slipping?
I'm sure their continued thrashing of the competition in Europe and NA makes things somewhat complicated but, really, if they wanted to stir demand they'd at the very least throw a bundle out there.
I'm sure their continued thrashing of the competition in Europe and NA makes things somewhat complicated but, really, if they wanted to stir demand they'd at the very least throw a bundle out there.
Liabe Brave
Member
It implicitly was. Yes, I know the main point was that you can't arbitrarily limit Nintendo's development/marketing/branding strategy to only internally-developed titles, and I agree with that. But you seemed to be pointing to that conclusion by mocking the idea that Nintendo's output is homogenous, where I think even with external titles included it is more homogenous than Sony's. That doesn't make you wrong, I just don't think that argument is very strong.Weisheit said:
Like I said, the real reason you're right is that it simply makes sense. If Nintendo foots the bill for a game, it doesn't matter who made it: Nintendo obviously view it as an important contribution to their image and product line.
d+pad said:
I fully expect them to announce new colors or even a redesign (maybe more flash mem, even smaller). Like you said, I think that US and European sales complicate things. They already have trouble producing enough single color Wii's. Still I'm pretty sure Nintendo is setting up their factories to produce additional colors or redesigned Wii's. Nintendo makes all their decisions based on Japan (atleast thats how it always has been).
Liabe Brave
Member
While the prices are all different in Japan, the comparatives are much the same. The base 360 is half the price of a PS3, just like in America; for less than the price of a PS3 alone you can buy a Wii, Wii Sports, and Wii Fit, just like in America.OldJadedGamer said:
Given that the gap in U.S. monthly sales for PS3/Wii (about 1:4) matches pretty well with Japan, and 360 is less of a competitor there, I actually think a price cut could do them some real good. Nothing they ever do will get them to first place week-in week-out, though, much less in lifetime sales.
Liabe Brave
Member
No, you equated them, but my point was even that's incorrect. Whatever you intended, the logic of your argument requires the comparison. Here's a quick recapitulation of what was said:Weisheit said:
sphinx: "Nintendo's internal games are all alike. Their output sucks!"
Weisheit: "But by this standard Sony's internal games are also all alike. Your conclusion sucks!"
Liabe Brave: "Yeah, his conclusion is bad, but not because Sony's games are also all alike (because they aren't)."
It's a pretty minor logical point. Sorry to derail the conversation.
Eh, it's not a problem really. But as long as we're making minor logical points, what was really said was more like:Liabe Brave said:
sphinx: "Nintendo's games are all alike. Their output sucks!"
GAF regulars #1 and #2: "You argument sucks because it's not true." *post list*
Spiegel: "Bububut only internally developed games should count."
Weisheit: "But by this standard Sony's internal games are also all alike. Your conclusion sucks!"
Liabe Brave: "Weisheit, why are you being a sarcastic smart ass?"
j/kI didn't make the comparison to prove sphinx wrong (GAF regulars #1 and #2 did that), I made it to show Spiegel that using his criteria the same (baseless) things can be said about Sony.
swerve said:Of course.
So, with it being so obvious that the Wii would sell better with one of these:
then if Nintendo were worried about their sales they could do one, no? I'm sure Capcom would oblige.
So your certainty that it would help can only mean one thing: Wii is meeting expectations. PHEW! <slippy>I was worried for a moment</slippy>
But, does it need to sell better right now? Whatever slim supply margin nintendo has right now, will be crushed during hollydays.
After that and after they stock pile a large inventory (they cant do sales without inventory, do that and sold out with a marginal sales increase is just pointless), they can start to think about reducing the wii price (at least disguised price reduction, ie: bunddle).
ksamedi said:
I really can't see Nintendo offering up a redesign before they offer bundles, new colors or a price cut. It just wouldn't make sense. All of those things - bundles, colors and price cuts - would spur sales enough for them to 'hold out' for another year or so before any redesign is needed.
I think some here are just jumping the gun. Numbers are lower, but only because one of third-party offerings continue to be thin and one of NOJ's big holiday titles turned out to be a bit of a bomb. I think the combo of AC, Mario Kart Wii and Wii Fit will carry the system through the holidays and then in the early spring they'll drop Wii Sports Resort to keep things going.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Mark my words: until its successor is released, Nintendo aren't ever going to cut the price of the Wii. Price cuts simply do not factor into their new business model.d+pad said:
d+pad said:
Well they already put out a number of expanded audiance games like Wiifit, Wiisports, Wiiplay and Wiimusic. Add to that a couple a massive franchises like Animal Crossing and Mario and you should have the level of succes the DS had in year 2. But that didn't happen. So Wiisports resort isn't going to cut it by itself. A redesign or new colors will certainly be the key to regain momentum. Price cut will not happen as seen with the DS (although a price raise is not out of the question with a redesign) so that eliminates bundles as well.