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[Opiate]

This is Nintendo's first mistep in quite some time.

 

[-Kh-]

This is Nintendo's first mistep in quite some time.

Um.. really? Top 3 worst selling published Nintendo games on Wii:


Captain Rainbow (2008-08-28) - 6,361
Disaster: Day of Crisis (2008-09-25) - 21,464
Eyeshield 21 (2007-03-08) - 26,013

In the other hand..

Wii Music (2008-10-16) - 163,848


Unless you mean "Miyamoto" mistep.

 

[Orin GA]

Good Gawd people. Stop bringing up LBP. We all knew it would tank.

 

[schuelma]

Um.. really? Top 3 worst selling published Nintendo games on Wii:


Captain Rainbow (2008-08-28) - 6,361
Disaster: Day of Crisis (2008-09-25) - 21,464
Eyeshield 21 (2007-03-08) - 26,013

In the other hand..

Wii Music (2008-10-16) - 163,848


Unless you mean "Miyamoto" mistep.

Mis-step in terms of missing Nintendo's expectations, I would have to agree. Nintendo clearly had high expectations for Wii Music- the other games you listed, not so much.

 

[thuway]

LBP?

LBP had a bundle. My suspicion is, people who are buying a PS3 for that game, are buying that bundle.

Edit: Don't worry too much about it anyhow, it will be bundled eventually. Its the right thing to do Sony.

 

[-Kh-]

Nintendo clearly had high expectations for Wii Music- the other games you listed, not so much.

Ah ok. I still don't think after all the public and press reactions since the E3, that they wouldn't be expecting really too much, but probably indeed more than this.

LBP had a bundle. My suspicion is, people who are buying a PS3 for that game, are buying that bundle

There's white and black systems too.


Edit: This is the bundle for 11/27 I believe.

 

[Kilrogg]

I like how some would have you think that sales != quality when a game they don't like is selling, yet if it tanks, if only relatively, it somehow has to do with its being inherently and objectively bad.

[EDIT] That said, I kinda wonder what Nintendo needs to do to start a DS-like craze for the Wii in Japan. The Wii is nowhere near selling poorly, as it's still by far the best-selling home console of the generation over there, but still, you'd think that Nintendo, of all publishers, would be able to have their systems sell roughly as well in every territory. Actually, I didn't even expect the Wii to be so huge in America and Europe, yet doing comparatively "so-so" in Japan.

 

[schuelma]

Ah ok. I still don't think after all the public and press reactions since the E3, that they wouldn't be expecting really too much, but probably indeed more than this.

Well, the initial shipment was over 300K, so clearly Nintendo expected a lot more.

 

[Dai Kaiju]

Their new ad campaign is quite nice for Japan.

But they've also been releasing new bundles and games consistently lately. A new bundle is out next week (PES).

It's no do-do-do, but it's alright.

 

[Syntek]

Hmmm , the real reason behind hw sales is this ? :]
...

I want those posters so bad...

 

[-Kh-]

I want those posters so bad...

There are similar posters like the sackboy one at work, but they have many different styles of sackboys, the reception looks so cool with them, I asked if there were any extra ones because I wanted one, but management said there weren't

 

[H_Prestige]

Wow, that silver ps3 looks NICE. Why doesn't Sony release the extra colors over here?

 

[Stumpokapow]

This is Nintendo's first mistep in quite some time.

Nintendo misteps related to software since the beginning of this gen...

Bringing over Brain Age too late resulting in very little time between BA and BA2 and stunging the growth of both. Impact: None, really. They're still selling millions of units.

Killing the GBA too quickly in Japan and too slowly in the US. Impact: Mixed; lost potential income in terms of longer GBA sales in Japan and the micro wasn't as big as it could have been, lost in terms of DS software adoption in the US, but probably gained by transitioning into the DS as fast as possible.

The DS camera / Facening software could have been substantially bigger if they had actually put more thought into it, separated the camera from Facening, which is an awful Japanese fad, and actually gave it some software support. Impact: Lost potential income.

Wii storage issues. Impact: Instead of buying ten games a month, heavy buyers buy two or three and grumble. Medium sized loss of income.

I'd say localizing Magical Starsign and putting a fairly large advertising campaign behind it was a grave error. Impact: A game that was supposed to be high mid tier was low low tier. Oops!

Wii Music tanking critically. Impact: A game that was supposed to be lynchpin / high top tier looks to be destined to a fairly middle tier existence. Slightly topping Mario Baseball in the Japan and being exactly equal to it in first months sales in the US. This probably is the first large misstep in a few years, yeah.

 

[d+pad]

How much of a factor is price in Wii Music's, er, lack of success? Part of me thinks it would fair much better at $30 than it has at $50, but a larger part of me thinks price is just one issue of many for Japanese (and American) consumers.

I mean, it seems like many people would snap up Wii Sports and Wii Fit at nearly any cost, so if NOJ had hit the mark with Wii Music like they did with Wii Sports/Fit, more than 160,000 people would be willing to pick up Wii Music for $50, right?

Sorry to keep asking and talking about Wii Music. I bought the game and have enjoyed it a bit (much less than I thought I would), but I'm hardly an ardent fan/supporter of it. I just find it fascinating that this product has 'failed' in the way that is has given Nintendo's recent successes.

 

[schuelma]

How much of a factor is price in Wii Music's, er, lack of success? Part of me thinks it would fair much better at $30 than it has at $50, but a larger part of me thinks price is just one issue of many for Japanese (and American) consumers.

I mean, it seems like many people would snap up Wii Sports and Wii Fit at nearly any cost, so if NOJ had hit the mark with Wii Music like they did with Wii Sports/Fit, more than 160,000 people would be willing to pick up Wii Music for $50, right?

Sorry to keep asking and talking about Wii Music. I bought the game and have enjoyed it a bit (much less than I thought I would), but I'm hardly an ardent fan/supporter of it. I just find it fascinating that this product has 'failed' in the way that is has given Nintendo's recent successes.

I think it is a significant factor.

 

[Opiate]

Nintendo misteps related to software since the beginning of this gen...

Bringing over Brain Age too late resulting in very little time between BA and BA2 and stunging the growth of both. Impact: None, really. They're still selling millions of units.

Killing the GBA too quickly in Japan and too slowly in the US. Impact: Mixed; lost potential income in terms of longer GBA sales in Japan and the micro wasn't as big as it could have been, lost in terms of DS software adoption in the US, but probably gained by transitioning into the DS as fast as possible.

The DS camera / Facening software could have been substantially bigger if they had actually put more thought into it, separated the camera from Facening, which is an awful Japanese fad, and actually gave it some software support. Impact: Lost potential income.

Wii storage issues. Impact: Instead of buying ten games a month, heavy buyers buy two or three and grumble. Medium sized loss of income.

I'd say localizing Magical Starsign and putting a fairly large advertising campaign behind it was a grave error. Impact: A game that was supposed to be high mid tier was low low tier. Oops!

Wii Music tanking critically. Impact: A game that was supposed to be lynchpin / high top tier looks to be destined to a fairly middle tier existence. Slightly topping Mario Baseball in the Japan and being exactly equal to it in first months sales in the US. This probably is the first large misstep in a few years, yeah.

Most of these aren't quantifiable issues, Stump. I'm not going to argue them simply because there is nothing substantial to lock on to.

Wii Music, on the other hand, got a large shipment (300k+) and may never sell that through without a price collapse. We can say that with confidence. That isn't counting America, where we can assume Wii Music was also a lynchpin of their holiday library and sold 81k in its first month.

Still, your point is taken. I didn't mean to imply that Nintendo is infallible, just that their major software releases have consistently scored direct hits with blockbuster level sales repeatedly for years on end.

 

[ksamedi]

I think it is a significant factor.

I don't think price has anything to do with it. I think Wiimusic is not as appealing as Wiifit/Wiisports/Wiiplay for many people. I do think that it will hang around in the charts for a long time.

 

[schuelma]

I don't think price has anything to do with it. I think Wiimusic is not as appealing as Wiifit/Wiisports/Wiiplay for many people. I do think that it will hang around in the charts for a long time.

I agree with that, but I also think that Wii Music is a harder sell because it is a full priced game without any kind of plastic add on that would add value to the casual consumer looking to pick it up.

Wii Sports- pack in, budget priced in Japan

Wii Play- pack in Wiimote

Wii Fit- Balance Board

Mario Kart- Wii Wheel

I agree with you that Wii Music probably does lack some of the appeal that other Wii games have had, but I also think initial sales would be better if it was lower priced.

 

[Link]

I kinda wonder what Nintendo needs to do to start a DS-like craze for the Wii in Japan. The Wii is nowhere near selling poorly, as it's still by far the best-selling home console of the generation over there, but still, you'd think that Nintendo, of all publishers, would be able to have their systems sell roughly as well in every territory. Actually, I didn't even expect the Wii to be so huge in America and Europe, yet doing comparatively "so-so" in Japan.

By now, third parties were full swing into DS development. We've seen no such migration with the Wii, and at this point, it's looking less likely we will. Most third parties' A-teams just aren't interested.

 

[Jirotrom]

Um.. really? Top 3 worst selling published Nintendo games on Wii:


Captain Rainbow (2008-08-28) - 6,361
Disaster: Day of Crisis (2008-09-25) - 21,464
Eyeshield 21 (2007-03-08) - 26,013

In the other hand..

Wii Music (2008-10-16) - 163,848


Unless you mean "Miyamoto" mistep.

woa... these games cameout? how are they?

 

[jett]

I don't think price has anything to do with it. I think Wiimusic is not as appealing as Wiifit/Wiisports/Wiiplay for many people. I do think that it will hang around in the charts for a long time.

Not on the japanese charts it won't.

 

[JardeL]

I want those posters so bad...

Especially MGS4 one ... Like to find hi-res version of it and print ...

 

[-Kh-]

woa... these games cameout? how are they?

Disaster is out in Euroland already too.

 

[John Harker]

Random thought but, is it safe to assume at this point that Fatal Frame 4 is the best selling in the series?

WHY have we not gotten word of a localized version??
Fine don't give us the other games that sold poorly, but Fatal Frame did good! I want it

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I'm rather surprised at Wii Music's poor sales both here and abroad. I knew that it wouldn't do as good as the other games but I don't think anyone saw the coming of an outright bomb.

I hope this means that Nintendo will stop leaning heavily on Miyamoto; it's kind of sapping their creativity and hurting their core games in my opinion. I think, and pray, that discovering what they should have known from the beginning -- that there is a limit to the profitability and possibilities of the Wii**** series-- can finally trigger this.

It was a good concept, but I think they need more people on the team who have the balls to suggest improvements to Miyamoto's visions.

I can see it bein hard to question them though - lots of people probably questioned his Zelda 64 move yet millions loved the game in the end. I'm hopin the team looks at these results and finds ways to improve the gameplay.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Random thought but, is it safe to assume at this point that Fatal Frame 4 is the best selling in the series?

WHY have we not gotten word of a localized version??
Fine don't give us the other games that sold poorly, but Fatal Frame did good! I want it

It should be now.

Fatal Frame III: 69.147
Fatal Frame II: 64.450
Fatal Frame IV: 63.489*
Fatal Frame I: 42.195

*till 09/07/2008


We are going to get updated numbers the in Famitsu Top100 or Top500.

 

[-Kh-]

Random thought but, is it safe to assume at this point that Fatal Frame 4 is the best selling in the series?

Fatal Frame 1 - 42,195
Fatal Frame 2 - 64,450
Fatal Frame 3 - 69,147
Fatal Frame 4 - 63,489

Not quite there yet.

Edit: beaten by Captain Smoker

 

[marc^o^]

By now, third parties were full swing into DS development. We've seen no such migration with the Wii, and at this point, it's looking less likely we will. Most third parties' A-teams just aren't interested.

Motion controls are entering a 2.0 era. Wiiboard and Motion+ will reshape the industry more than any previous innovation in videogames. Third parties who won't embrace it face the risk of becoming irrelevant in a decade. Here is why: there's a long learning curve to master motion controls, you need to develop on a specific middleware, write and reuse routines, train people, experience unforeseen gameplay concepts, create new ones through an incredible controller selection: wiimote/nunchuck, wiimote/wiimote, Motion+/nunchuck, wiiboard alone, wiiboard/wiimote+nunchuck, wiiboard/wiimote/wiimote, wiiboard/Motion+, peripheral/motion+, Wii/DS connectivity, etc.

This is the future of gaming.
Third parties may prefer to wait for Microsoft and Sony to make their move on motion controls. All the ones that are already working on it should be in the best position to benefit from it when this happens.

 

[ksamedi]

I agree with that, but I also think that Wii Music is a harder sell because it is a full priced game without any kind of plastic add on that would add value to the casual consumer looking to pick it up.

Wii Sports- pack in, budget priced in Japan

Wii Play- pack in Wiimote

Wii Fit- Balance Board

Mario Kart- Wii Wheel

I agree with you that Wii Music probably does lack some of the appeal that other Wii games have had, but I also think initial sales would be better if it was lower priced.

Agreed. It would probably sell more copies. But still would not have been as succesfull as Wiifit/Wiisports/Wiiplay. Whats also a factor is that the Wii has lost some serious momentum in Japan. The console market is pathetic. No software in the top 10 at all. I think its time for Nintendo to do something about this, like introducing new colors.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Hmmm , the real reason behind hw sales is this ? :]

Final Fantasy XIII Poster

...

OMG. Where can I get her?

 

[Liabe Brave]

A new bundle is out next week (PES).

So do we expect this to do as well, worse, or better than Winning Eleven 2008, in terms of the game itself and the hardware driven? Last year's version sold 145k first week and was last seen at 275k. The PS3 sold 58k that week (11/19/07), and about 40k or more for the remaining six weeks of the year.

Personally, given the slightly lower performance for PS3 recently, I suspect the hardware might not move quite as quickly this holiday season. I'd expect the game to do just as well or a little better, though.

 

[Sage00]

So do we expect this to do as well, worse, or better than Winning Eleven 2008, in terms of the game itself and the hardware driven? Last year's version sold 145k first week and was last seen at 275k. The PS3 sold 58k that week (11/19/07), and about 40k or more for the remaining six weeks of the year.

Personally, given the slightly lower performance for PS3 recently, I suspect the hardware might not move quite as quickly this holiday season. I'd expect the game to do just as well or a little better, though.

I believe this year there is no PS2 version (while there was last year), which should make a difference.

 

[Kagari]

So do we expect this to do as well, worse, or better than Winning Eleven 2008, in terms of the game itself and the hardware driven? Last year's version sold 145k first week and was last seen at 275k. The PS3 sold 58k that week (11/19/07), and about 40k or more for the remaining six weeks of the year.

Personally, given the slightly lower performance for PS3 recently, I suspect the hardware might not move quite as quickly this holiday season. I'd expect the game to do just as well or a little better, though.

Hard to say.

 

[-Kh-]

I believe this year there is no PS2 version (while there was last year), which should make a difference.

I was going to say that.

Everything is in place for this year's PS3 version to improve over last year's performance.

The game should move more untis software and hardware wise than last year. It won't be PS2 level of course, but it should have a significant increase from back then.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Woah! I didn't realise there was a new thread.

With all this talk of Wii music and why it bombed, I'll just quote myself from the "Will the failure of Wii Music cause Nintendo to change their strategy?" thread:

Didn't read the thread, but I did read the OP, so this may have already been stated.

I think Wii Music underperformed because of confused marketing. If you can't explain to your customers what a game is about and why it is fun in under thirty seconds, then you've mucked up the design.

Wii Music is a fantastic product - a triumph of programming and musical creation. You want proof of this, watch the JC Rodrigo video in the Wii Music thread. Improvisation, tempo changes, arrangements et al allow the user to create nice sounding music without actually knowing anything about hitting notes. The complexity of the programming required to achieve this is likely leagues beyond anything that has been released in the music game space so far.

Theoretically, it's about making "the joy of performing" accessable by people who know nothing about music and lack finger co ordination. Problem is, most people are completely ignorant of these things and those who don't already have a certain amount of musical training. The most basic musical training is still about reading music, arcane theory and hitting the right notes - you don't get to the fun stuff that Wii Music concentrates on until later.

So that leaves Wii Music a product without an audience. People will look at it and compare it to what they're already used to: other music games. Then, they'll complain when it doesn't meet their expectations.

Wii Music didn't fail because it's too casual, because of music game fatigue or because it's a poor quality product. It failed because it failed to find an audience. What audience it could have had were confused as to what the product is and judge it on terms they are familiar with.

As for its underperforming forcing Nintendo to change its tack, I say LOL. The people at Nintendo (especially Reggie) aren't stupid. They know marketing (and no, I don't just mean advertising) and they no doubt have come to some conclusions about Wii Music and why it failed. Have no doubt that their analysis is much more indepth than anything we're doing here.

The fact is that their current strategy works and demonstrably. Not just at Nintendo, to boot. Just because a single product in a line was a dead end won't mean that they won't release more. Were Jiff to switch to just making soap if one of their new disinfectant lines didn't sell, they'd be soon out of business.

GAF has selective perception about these things and seem think that these "expanded audience" games are all Nintendo does. They forget about the Marios, Metroids, Super Smash Bros and Zeldas that Nintendo are still making and feel resentment towards the new audience for getting "all the attention".

I think this is where so much of the hatred for Wii Music comes from. Not only is it not a product for you, but it is also the product that gets the bulk of promotion from Nintendo. That Nintendo aren't releasing more of their traditional offerings this year is more likely the cause of dev cycles than a shift in focus is never taken into account - Nintendo is a meanie for not giving GAF enough attention.

Which is odd, since neither Nintendo or the game industry are your mother, GAF.

Also, is Nintendo planning to phase out the DS Lite? That could be an interesting turn of events.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

PS3's been doing nicely lately.

DSi still on top. I assume it'll pick up a little this week.

Curious about how much of a boost TLR will give to the 360. Didn't seem all that hyped in comparison to other 360 JRPGs, but I don't really follow the hype of 360 JRPGs extensively in the first place.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Also, is Nintendo planning to phase out the DS Lite? That could be an interesting turn of events.

I believe they said they had no plan to do so, that the Lite and i would co-exist. But if consumers keep buying them in the ratio they are now, Nintendo may have no choice.

Curious about how much of a boost TLR will give. Didn't seem all that hyped in comparison to other 360 JRPGs, but I don't really follow the hype of 360 JRPGs extensively in the first place.

In absolute terms it probably won't be a barnburner, but in 360 terms it will probably give a huge boost to the hardware--doubling it easily, and tripling it isn't implausible.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I believe they said they had no plan to do so, that the Lite and i would co-exist. But if consumers keep buying them in the ratio they are now, Nintendo may have no choice.

The Japanese market tends to be like that, I've noticed - eschewing the old in favour of the new almost immediately.

 

[Private Hoffman]

Looks like I was right about Wii Music being the first Wii * title to not live up to expectations.

Won't be having huge legs in Japan apparently.

I think Nintendo may have exhausted all of their 'expanded market' ideas. Wii Fit was a grand slam for them. Can anyone think of another title like that where there's no competition and fits their new demographic?

Best they can hope for now is to continue packing in pieces of plastic that don't necessarily add anything to the core nintendo experience but allows consumers to feel like they're getting a better value, similar to Mario Kart. Perhaps they could pack in boxing gloves with Punch Out.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Looks like I was right about Wii Music being the first Wii * title to not live up to expectations.

Won't be having huge legs in Japan apparently.

I think Nintendo may have exhausted all of their 'expanded market' ideas. Wii Fit was a grand slam for them. Can anyone think of another title like that where there's no competition and fits their new demographic?

Best they can hope for now is to continue packing in pieces of plastic that don't necessarily add anything to the core nintendo experience but allows consumers to feel like they're getting a better value, similar to Mario Kart. Perhaps they could pack in boxing gloves with Punch Out.

Subtle. I'll admit it did make me smirk a little. Bravo.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Looks like I was right about Wii Music being the first Wii * title to not live up to expectations.

Won't be having huge legs in Japan apparently.

I think Nintendo may have exhausted all of their 'expanded market' ideas. Wii Fit was a grand slam for them. Can anyone think of another title like that where there's no competition and fits their new demographic?

Best they can hope for now is to continue packing in pieces of plastic that don't necessarily add anything to the core nintendo experience but allows consumers to feel like they're getting a better value, similar to Mario Kart. Perhaps they could pack in boxing gloves with Punch Out.

And for a second I thought you were going to make it through a post without trolling.

Anyway, Miyamoto says they aren't going to be doing much periphrial stuff anymore.

 

[Link]

Can anyone think of another title like that where there's no competition and fits their new demographic?

If it were that easy, we'd all be rich by now.

 

[Parl]

I'm mainly asking out of sheer curiousity, but why do some people who troll get banned, and some who troll don't? Jokers aside.

 

[Private Hoffman]

And for a second I thought you were going to make it through a post without trolling.

Anyway, Miyamoto says they aren't going to be doing much periphrial stuff anymore.

I wasn't. I'm being completely honest. The casuals love the peripheral toys that come packaged with their titles, regardless of how vital they are to the function of the game itself. This is a core element of Nintendo's newfound success. I'm not sure why they would want to shy away from that approach.

I think it's one of the reasons Wii Music failed to deliver like Wii Fit and others.

 

[bafflewaffle]

Hmmm , the real reason behind hw sales is this ? :]

Nixon pose?

 

[-Kh-]

And for a second I thought you were going to make it through a post without trolling.

Anyway, Miyamoto says they aren't going to be doing much periphrial stuff anymore.

It would be on the best of their interests to instead of making more pripherals, to make more games that use the existing ones, so it is a good thing.

 

[Link]

I'm mainly asking out of sheer curiousity, but why do some people who troll get banned, and some who troll don't? Jokers aside.

Theorizing on this is a bannable offense, so I doubt you're gonna get any answers.

 

[d+pad]

I think Nintendo may have exhausted all of their 'expanded market' ideas.

I doubt they're even close to exhaustion. Wishful thinking much?

 

[d+pad]

The casuals love the peripheral toys that come packaged with their titles, regardless of how vital they are to the function of the game itself. This is a core element of Nintendo's newfound success. I'm not sure why they would want to shy away from that approach.

Man, you have a narrow view of the world - esp. the gaming world - if you think a few peripherals are chiefly responsible for Nintendo's recent success.

 

[Weisheit]

I think it's one of the reasons Wii Music failed to deliver like Wii Fit and others.

Jesus, could you be any dumber? This argument is akin to the old Wii only sells because it's in short supply stupidity. If creating massive sellers was a simple matter of packing in a piece of plastic then everybody would be doing it, don't you think?