• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Media Create Sales: 2009 Software Top 500

Status
Not open for further replies.

Firewire

Banned
cvxfreak said:
It's possible, but I don't think that one is set in stone. GT4 sold 1,066,749, and only a few PS3 franchises have met their PS2 predecessors' sales. I'll have to see the hype machine that SCE builds for the game closer to release.

Going by PD's info GT4 sold 1,270,000 in Japan with Gran Turismo 5 Prologue selling 740,000 as of December 2009.

World Wide
Gran Turismo 4 sold 10,980,000
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue sold 4,650,000

Pretty good for a SCEJ studio.

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Firewire said:
Going by PD's info GT4 sold 1,270,000 in Japan with Gran Turismo 5 Prologue selling 740,000 as of December 2009.

prologue is at about 250k in japan. the spec 3 re-release of prologue is at about 300k in japan. either those numbers are shipped, inflated, including non-japan asian territories, or including some sort of funky psn numbers that we'll never see on this chart or others.
 

Takao

Banned
296 [PS2] Dragon Ball Z: Infinite World (Bandai Namco Games) 35,874 / 172,315
309 [WII] Dragon Ball: Revenge of King Piccolo (Bandai Namco Games) 33,869

That's embarassing, and the reason why we'll be seeing fighting games forever with this franchise on consoles. NB finally attempts to not make a straight fighting game for the franchise, and it sells less than a poorly reviewed full price rehash release that was released the year before.

459 [PSP] Loco Roco 2 (SCE) 18,823 / 33,183

Wow Japan. Just wow.

255 [PSP] Patapon 2 (SCE) 43,624 / 106,823

I like Patapon and all, but how did it manage 100k? Are they counting bundle sales? (I know it was bundled with 3000 units in Japan).

420 [NDS] Blue Dragon: Awakened Shadow (Bandai Namco Games) 21,869

Mistwalker drying their tears.

AranhaHunter said:
IMO, SCEJ has gone downhill every generation since PS1 whereas SCEE and SCEA have gotten better. Talking purely about games development, SCEJ is the weaklink in SCEWWS, they're more than a couple of notches below the other 2 main branches.

I'd say their PSP output outweighs SCEA and SCEE's work combined (SCEA never even launched a new IP on PSP). Just that it seems Japan isn't buying their PSP games.
 

Firewire

Banned
Stumpokapow said:
prologue is at about 250k in japan. the spec 3 re-release of prologue is at about 300k in japan. either those numbers are shipped, inflated, including non-japan asian territories, or including some sort of funky psn numbers that we'll never see on this chart or others.

I seriously doubt those numbers. If you hit the link the numbers are listed under "Japan", Asia has it's own section. It is almost certain that PSN numbers are included, also I don't think PD has a reason to "inflate" or lie about their numbers.

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html
 

Jaruru

Member
4 Wii titles + 4 DS titles on top 10, with 1 PS3 + 1 PSP
Nintendo wow~

nice to see Monster Hunter 3 (Tri) on top 10 :D
love this game
 
Takao said:
I'd say their PSP output outweighs SCEA and SCEE's work combined (SCEA never even launched a new IP on PSP). Just that it seems Japan isn't buying their PSP games.

That's true but even then their PSP effort is not as big as it should be at this point if they were focusing on it. LocoRoco, Patapon and echochrome are the main games I can think off and as you said they didn't sell well. If they were really focusing on PSP and not PS3 I would have expected bigger games from them besides the aformentioned ones because while they're fun and casual portable games, they're not really big games. I would at least expect them to have a MH clone either released or announced by now. Honestly I don't know why they're so behind the other 2, but they just are.
 

GaussTek

Member
Stumpokapow said:
Million sellers this generation:

PS3: Final Fantasy XIII.
PSP: Monster Hunter 2g, Monster Hunter 2, Monster Hunter

Wii: NSMB Wii, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Wii Play, MK Wii, Smash Bros Brawl, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus, Mario Party 8, Animal Crossing, Monster Hunter 3, Mario Galaxy

DS: NSMB, Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Heart Gold, Soul Silver, Animal Crossing, Brain Age, Brain Age 2, Dragon Quest IV, Dragon Quest V, Dragon Quest VI, Dragon Quest IX, Dragon Quest Monsters Joker, Mario Kart, Tomodachi Collection, English Training, Nintendogs (combined, not individual), Mario Party, Rhythm Heaven, Big Brain Academy, Common Knowledge Training, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2 (combined, not individual), Tetris, Kirby Super Star Ultra, Kirby Squeak Squad, WarioWare Touched, SM64DS, Tomogotchi Connection 1, FF3, Love and Berry, Inazuma Eleven 2 (combined, not individual)

Within 25k-50k: Layton 1, Cooking Navi, Dissidia (including rerelease, not original).

Pretty interesting.

So, basically, Nintendo Franchises, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter.
 

Kinan

Member
Jokeropia said:
Third parties completely messed up, but that's old news by now.

Or, maybe, PS3 is just a better platform for third party games. :p

Lets look at what a third party game is selling at average according to this data:

105k NDS
85k PSP
134k PS3
88k WII
56k PS2
47k 360


Heh. Of course it all can be explained by "lack of effort" and "lazy devs" sentences.

But maybe it also has to do with the fact that WII is an awesome first party platform:

Thanks to the excellent Nintendo games this year, WII sold more per game than NDS, with much smaller install base:

338k NDS
372k WII
76k PS3
71k PSP
34k 360


How many games an average casual consumer is prepared to buy in a month? Could it be that the Wii market is just capped with first party output?
 

Fularu

Banned
Kinan said:
Or, maybe, PS3 is just a better platform for third party games. :p

You realise last year saw the releases of :

- FF XIII
- RE 5
- SF IV
- Yakuza III
- PES 2010 (way before the wii version)

Those games make up for more than 3.5 million units of software sold, or half the third party games sales.

You can try to compare it with : Tales of Grace, Monster Hunter Tri and....?

Third parties missed the boat, plain and simple. If Nintendo can sell almost 9 million units of software on the wii, then the third parties should be able to double or triple that.. if they actually tried.
 

Jokeropia

Member
Firewire said:
I seriously doubt those numbers.
Which numbers? The Media Create and Famitsu numbers for GT5P and GT5P: Spec III?
Kinan said:
Or, maybe, PS3 is just a better platform for third party games. :p
If that is the case (which is debatable), it's because third parties completely messed up on Wii. There are 6+ million Wii owners in Japan who never owned a Gamecube, there is no reason they would have any pre-existing biases towards Nintendo software.

Kinan said:
Lets look at what a third party game is selling at average according to this data:
Do you understand why "average sales per game" is a useless stat or should I explain it?
Kinan said:
How many games an average casual consumer is prepared to buy in a month? Could it be that the Wii market is just capped with first party output?
Wii tie-ratio: ~4.
PS3 tie-ratio: ~3.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Kinan said:
How many games an average casual consumer is prepared to buy in a month? Could it be that the Wii market is just capped with first party output?


This is a really tired debate now, especially since the answer from the 3rd parties perspective seems pretty clear, but I will always maintain that there was nothing inherent in the Wii as a platform that made it inhospitable for 3rd parties. 3rd parties and Nintendo caused this situation the platform is in today by not putting top 3rd party titles on the platform early and often, period. The argument about 1st party software taking up too much of the pie is at odds with the significant 3rd party success DS software has achieved in spite of very very impressive 1st party output as well. The difference is the DS got relatively early tentpole 3rd party support which led to more 3rd party support, etc.

The notion that Nintendo games couldn't or can't succeed because of competition with 1st party games strikes me as ridiculous when you look at the vast periods of time where nothing notable is even released, i.e the first half of this year.
 

duckroll

Member
donny2112 said:
No, it's that third-parties screwed up.

That's a tired and lame excuse. Unless you also feel that Nintendo screwed up too, since their non-Nintendo brand core titles fail to sell as well. So in that case, I guess everyone screwed up. Maybe the Wii is just screwed up. Easier answer?
 

donny2112

Member
duckroll said:
Unless you also feel that Nintendo screwed up too,

Which I do. Third-parties carry the lionshare of fault there, though, for third-party sales.

duckroll said:
Maybe the Wii is just screwed up. Easier answer?

As far as third-parties attitudes toward the system, definitely.

Edit:
Maybe Kinan was saying that PS3 was better for third-party games now, which I would agree with, but it's mainly because of third-parties screwing up on the Wii for the years before that the third-parties struggle on the system now. It didn't magically become that way. It took work. :lol
 

Celine

Member
duckroll said:
That's a tired and lame excuse. Unless you also feel that Nintendo screwed up too, since their non-Nintendo brand core titles fail to sell as well. So in that case, I guess everyone screwed up. Maybe the Wii is just screwed up. Easier answer?
Nintendo screw up too while making heaps of money.
In the end Wii was a trap for third-party.
They weren't ready for it.

EDIT:
Thanks bttb for the translation.
 

Kinan

Member
donny2112 said:
Which I do. Third-parties carry the lionshare of fault there, though, for third-party sales.



As far as third-parties attitudes toward the system, definitely.

Edit:
Maybe Kinan was saying that PS3 was better for third-party games now, which I would agree with, but it's mainly because of third-parties screwing up on the Wii for the years before that the third-parties struggle on the system now. It didn't magically become that way. It took work. :lol

Well, yea, I'm talking this year outcome. PS3 sold 7.76M software on <5M userbase this year (1.55), when Wii sold 13M units on <10M base (1.3). This is first and third party combined...


Its really amazing, its a 4th year already and I see only one third party game worldwide that really "dig" into that illusive Wii customer in a Nintendo way - Ubi's "Just Dance".


Jokeropia said:
Do you understand why "average sales per game" is a useless stat or should I explain it?

Its a way to present the results, no more, no less. With a large enough database its not as stupid as it seems at first. It removes number of releases on a platform from analysis, so one is not snowed by big differences in absolute numbers.
 

donny2112

Member
Kinan said:
Its really amazing, its a 4th year already and I see only one third party game worldwide that really "dig" into that illusive Wii customer in a Nintendo way - Ubi's "Just Dance".

Ignoring the question of what an elusive Wii customer actually is, Guitar Hero would be another quick example. Depending on your criteria, RE4:Wii could (it shipped ~ what Lost Planet did worldwide), as well.
 

Vinci

Danish
The Wii is not a bogeyman. It's a console. Like every other. What is put on the thing, or not put on it, will help to determine how its audience responds to future product. This is not rocket science. 3rd parties treated it like shit and its users like retards; Nintendo failed to leverage its influence over Japanese 3rd parties to garner meaningful exclusives.

The Wii is what it is because 3rd parties made bad choices and Nintendo didn't dramatically shift things in their favor in the 3rd party arena, particularly in Japan where they had potentially enough influence over them to do so.

In short, this generation is fucked as the vast majority of 3rd parties are now spending untold millions of dollars supporting the losing consoles rather than the winning one.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Firewire said:
I seriously doubt those numbers. If you hit the link the numbers are listed under "Japan", Asia has it's own section. It is almost certain that PSN numbers are included, also I don't think PD has a reason to "inflate" or lie about their numbers.

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

you seriously doubt what numbers?

you're the one who clicked on a media create thread, either you believe they're a credible tracker or you don't.

media create top 500, 2007:
96. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, 165,034

media create top 500, 2008:
60. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue: Spec III 212,611
198. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue 68,196 / 233,230

media create top 500, 2009:
86. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec III 153,759 / 366,370
#500 is 16k, so let's be crazy and assume GT5P vanilla is at 16k for 2009

sum total sales of GT5P / GT5PSIII including magic numbers for 2009 for GT5p: 615,600

so, again, either PD's numbers are wrong, shipped-to-stores, over-inflated, include non-japanese asian territories, or include some sort of hypothetical psn numbers that will never be tracked by an independent sales tracker and thus are totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand--which, again, was the point i made in my last post.
 

Jokeropia

Member
apujanata said:
Nintendo vs the rest in 2009 :
38.15% of Top 5 Publisher
28.75% of Top 10 Publisher
25.64% of All Publisher
You're not counting Pokemon as Nintendo here.
Kinan said:
Its a way to present the results, no more, no less. With a large enough database its not as stupid as it seems at first. It removes number of releases on a platform from analysis, so one is not snowed by big differences in absolute numbers.
No, it's pretty much useless and says nothing about a systems ability to move software (first or third) or how much success publishers are finding on it. The stat would only have meaning if all games had equal (or even comparable) budgets and expectations.
Kinan said:
Its really amazing, its a 4th year already and I see only one third party game worldwide that really "dig" into that illusive Wii customer in a Nintendo way - Ubi's "Just Dance".
So then you're either blind or have a specious way of defining "digging into that illusive Wii customer in a Nintendo way" that is not based on actual sales.
 

kswiston

Member
Stumpokapow said:
you seriously doubt what numbers?

you're the one who clicked on a media create thread, either you believe they're a credible tracker or you don't.

media create top 500, 2007:
96. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, 165,034

media create top 500, 2008:
60. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue: Spec III 212,611
198. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue 68,196 / 233,230

media create top 500, 2009:
86. PS3 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Spec III 153,759 / 366,370
#500 is 16k, so let's be crazy and assume GT5P vanilla is at 16k for 2009

sum total sales of GT5P / GT5PSIII including magic numbers for 2009 for GT5p: 615,600

so, again, either PD's numbers are wrong, shipped-to-stores, over-inflated, include non-japanese asian territories, or include some sort of hypothetical psn numbers that will never be tracked by an independent sales tracker and thus are totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand--which, again, was the point i made in my last post.

Like almost every sales number we get from just about any company (lacking a citation to media-create, NPD, etc), I would imagine that the numbers on the PD site are "shipped to stores" numbers. Maybe even shipped + PSN. This is the case with Capcom's Platinum sellers list, and the quarterly/annual report sales numbers we get for companies like Nintendo and Square-Enix. They get paid for every copy shipped, so that is their sales as far as potential investors are concerned.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
I have 100 games more to check but so far I found 2 major errors from geimin (and some other minor - mainly wrong release dates).

470 [PS3] Need for Speed: Shift (Electronic Arts) - 18.310 / 18.310

It is for PS3 not DS

The other one is a little tricky

225 [PSP] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball Portable 3 (Konami) - 50.791 / 382.122
with a first week of 104.935 / sellthrough 70,95%.
This gives 331.331 for 2008

From 2008 top 500
30 [PSP] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball Portable 3 (Konami) - 362.828 / 362.828
with a first week of 116.595 (agrees with weekly report) / sellthrough 70,95%.

Difference at first week sales and 2008 YTD. Is anyone having any idea? I tend to believe that 2009 data for YTD and first week are the ones that are wrong.
 

MWCShay

Member
Forget the Wii third party sales numbers. The real story is the Sony first party sales numbers.

The difference in the numbers there are larger than the Wii first to third party ratio. 12 games couldn't even break 1 million in sales. That's pathetic.
 

ksamedi

Member
MWCShay said:
Forget the Wii third party sales numbers. The real story is the Sony first party sales numbers.

The difference in the numbers there are larger than the Wii first to third party ratio. 12 games couldn't even break 1 million in sales. That's pathetic.

Yeah this is what struck me as odd as well. That is really pathetic for first party efforts. It shows how much Sony is dependent on third party support to be successful.
 

donny2112

Member
Chris1964 said:
470 [PS3] Need for Speed: Shift (Electronic Arts) - 18.310 / 18.310

It is for PS3 not DS

Thanks!

Chris1964 said:
with a first week of 104.935

No game in 2008 sold this amount in a week.

Chris1964 said:
I tend to believe that 2009 data for YTD and first week are the ones that are wrong.

That or MC went back and adjusted this game, which is actually pretty possible. Famitsu had this game ~75K lower than MC at the end of 2008. The adjusted number is ~44K different. Also, curiously, the Famitsu first week was 109,436. MC's adjusted is 104,935. Switch the 9-4 and ... :lol
 

Kinan

Member
donny2112 said:
Ignoring the question of what an elusive Wii customer actually is, Guitar Hero would be another quick example. Depending on your criteria, RE4:Wii could (it shipped ~ what Lost Planet did worldwide), as well.

Not sure if I can put what I meant clearly, but these franchises came to Wii, not were developed for Wii leveraging knowledge of its demographic and possibilities. I'm talking about selling to masses that bought Wii Play/Sport/Fit, and not just mimicking Nintendo or porting something from other platforms, but with a fresh approach. And, as I said, unless I miss something, only game that did it in 4 years is "Just Dance".

Which is also may have to do with Nintendo covering this customer fully with first party output.
 

Cipherr

Member
Kinan said:
Not sure if I can put what I meant clearly, but these franchises came to Wii, not were developed for Wii leveraging knowledge of its demographic and possibilities. I'm talking about selling to masses that bought Wii Play/Sport/Fit, and not just mimicking Nintendo or porting something from other platforms, but with a fresh approach. And, as I said, unless I miss something, only game that did it in 4 years is "Just Dance".

Which is also may have to do with Nintendo covering this customer fully with first party output.


Like Mario & Sonic, EA sports Active, Game Party, Deca Sports, My Fitness Coach, Big Beach sports, Game Party 2, and the carnival games sequel?

Those would all be new IP's this gen that came close to or crossed 1m worldwide that were strictly aimed at the casual audiences this gen (that is some SERIOUSLY narrow restrictions right there btw, your basically excluding alot of games by looking at such a narrow area.)

There have been some successes. Even some major successes in the casual space from third parties on the Wii, the thing is even most of those were fluke occurrences that I think succeeded because, with a console that sells that much, when you toss enough shit at the wall something has to stick. Just Dance is just this years version of the most of those games listed above. Not exceptionally well made or original, but hey, shit happens.


The sequel will arrive no doubt, and the original will be outselling it leaving Ubi scratching their heads wondering why the sequel bombed. The bitch about flukes are that its hard to repeat them.
 

donny2112

Member
Road said:
501-1000 is up on GEIMIN.

These are going to be much harder to translate (for me), since a lot of them possibly never made a Top 50 in the weekly threads and thus don't have an existing ready-made translation. The more BEST games, the better from that sense, though. :lol Should be fun to see the final result.

bttb,
If you can get it all into three posts, I'll edit my post to include the last part of the Top 1000. Just Private Message me what you want me to post and/or post it in the thread.

Once it gets up, maybe a mod can change the title, too. :)
 
Gemini said:
...

678 - PS Final Fantasy VII International 10903
927 - PS Final Fantasy 9 6494

It's 2010 and a PS1 game is still in the top 700.

In terms of release date(aka the same package you buy now is the one you would have brought at release date, not a best verision) oldest game on the list to be released is

Pokemon Firered at 503 released 2004/01/29

Followed By Mario 64 DS released 2004/12/02
 

Road

Member
^ On the same subject, the oldest titles are:

DS - Mario 64, WarioWare: Touched! (launch titles)
Wii - Wii Sports, Wii Play, Twilight Princess (launch titles)

PSP - Tales of Eternia - PSP the best (2005/12 - 12 months after launch)
PS3 - Devil May Cry 4 - (2008/01 - 14 months after launch)
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
FINALFANTASYDOG said:
It's 2010 and a PS1 game is still in the top 700.

You they would include PSN Sales it would probably be in the Top 100 at least :D
 
Some statistics for those who care.

The top 3rd party title for Wii and PS3 compose almost a quarter of all third party sales for each platform.

The top 5 third party titles for PS3 compose 52% of all third party sales on the PS3. The top 5 are also mainline games in established franchises. Of the 52 third party titles released for the PS3, 5 games combined outsold the other 47 combined.

The sales of Wii third party titles are probably more spread out, but that's more a consequence of the lack of major franchises appearing. When DQ X comes out, it will no doubt account for 60+% of Wii third party sales for that year.
 

Road

Member
Inspired by Garaph (which uses Famitsu data, btw):

life-to-date/first week - release - system - title - first week - life-to-date

208.94 - 29/11/2007 - [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (Playstation 2 the Best) - 388 / 81,067
199.19 - 29/11/2007 - [PS2] Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (Playstation 2 the Best) - 189 / 37,647*
170.02 - 30/11/2006 - [PSP] Samurai Warriors: State of War (PSP the Best) - 335 / 56,956
146.01 - 20/09/2007 - [PSP] Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops (PSP the Best) - 583 / 85,125
106.13 - 25/09/2008 - [PS2] Sengoku Basara 2 (Best Price!) - 450 / 47,757
105.64 - 07/12/2006 - [PSP] Me & My Katamari (PSP the Best) - 779 / 82,297
102.51 - 24/07/2008 - [PSP] Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (Best Price!) - 1,126 / 115,430
_91.13 - 19/05/2005 - [NDS] Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day - 42,509 / 3,873,703

Sorted by how many times the game multiplied its first week sales.

*189 for MGS2 the Best is the second lowest first week in the top 1000. The lowest one is 178 units for Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army (Atlus Best Collection).
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
donny2112 said:
These are going to be much harder to translate (for me), since a lot of them possibly never made a Top 50 in the weekly threads and thus don't have an existing ready-made translation.
It's not that bad. We also had new releases outside famitsu top 30 from 2ch except for the last 4 weeks of 2009.
 
bttb said:
174 [PS2] Melty Blood: Actress Again (Ecole Software) 66,949
202 [PS3] BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger (Arc System Works) 57,796
At least those two are somewhere on the list. All is right with the world.
Nintendo dominates the top ten.
 
Good to see Monster Hunter Tri selling over a million (if you include international sales).

But Nintendo is dominating the top 10 even though I think Sony won the hardware sales this past year.
 

donny2112

Member
Chris1964 said:
It's not that bad. We also had new releases outside famitsu top 30 from 2ch except for the last 4 weeks of 2009.

Yeah, there's that and the fact that BEST releases begin the same way as the base game. Just thinking that with the Top 500, there were like < 10 games that had to be done from scratch. Probably not the case here. Still, much rather have the Top 1000 and have to do the work than not have the Top 1000. :D
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Takao said:
296 [PS2] Dragon Ball Z: Infinite World (Bandai Namco Games) 35,874 / 172,315
309 [WII] Dragon Ball: Revenge of King Piccolo (Bandai Namco Games) 33,869

That's embarassing, and the reason why we'll be seeing fighting games forever with this franchise on consoles. NB finally attempts to not make a straight fighting game for the franchise, and it sells less than a poorly reviewed full price rehash release that was released the year before.

Wasn't the game kinda trash? That's why I skipped it, iirc it reviewed with the usual "it's a five or six, maybe a low low 7 if you're really passionate about the franchise".
Just asking, I might be interested in trying it out if that's not the case.
Also, the "Origin" adventure games fared pretty well I think, as the GBA action rpg outing did, but of course the fighting games are more popular.

459 [PSP] Loco Roco 2 (SCE) 18,823 / 33,183

LR was never popular to begin with in JPN, and 30k+ for such a niche game on PSP is not that bad honestly, don't get why are you shocked at all.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Dash Kappei said:
LR was never popular to begin with in JPN, and 30k+ for such a niche game on PSP is not that bad honestly, don't get why are you shocked at all.

loco roco did 150k

loco roco 2 did 30k

that's not shocking to you?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom