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[Arkage]

Dave Chappelle received perhaps the biggest criticism (or crying as you pose it) for his joke about transgender people. Did his set change? Did he come out and vow to change his ways? Is he still a big deal? No, no, and yes.

Dave Chappelle wasn't doing a college tour, either. Had he been with that joke there likely would be large protests per usual. Which is fine for students to do if they want, but it's the reason why many big name comedians now avoid colleges like the plague. It's directly correlated to the level of political correctness that exists in college bubbles.

 

[Gnome Scat]

I think any subject is ok depending on the context that the joke is told in. If you use comedy to attack, insult, bully, or discriminate against a people, race, gender, or sexuality, then that totally crosses a line, as well as blatant disrespect or disregard for a tragedy, and that's not acceptable in my mind. However, I think humor can be found nearly anywhere if you approach it in the right way. Of course, some people have different preferences and will be offended even if you slightly touch on a sensitive topic, but that's always going to happen if you don't practice clean comedy.

 

[Two Words]

Comedians don't get to choose what their audience finds to be acceptable for humor.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I'm kind of conflicted on the topic.

On the one hand comedy should be something that can push limits, but on the flip side really poor taste humor that offends people is something I'm not okay with.

This reminds me of how mortally offended some persons are by the very idea of directionality in comedy ("Punching up vs punching down.")

Comedy can be transgressive and free and even offensive while being used for a better purpose than a worse one.

 

[JCX]

99% of the time when I hear a comic on stage decrying political correctness, it's right after trying a bit that isn't funny.

So to highlight this, the comic things their joke is so undeniably funny that if an audience doesn't laugh, you assume the only possible reason for the lack of laughter is "rampant political correctness"

It's incredibly egotistical.

Whenever I try out a new bit, the first thing I try to determine is "is this more funny than it is offensive/preachy/referential" because comedy is the most important part (duh).

The "oh no PC!" crowd have jokes that are more offensive than they are funny. Instead of fixing their joke they blame the audience.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Comedians don't get to choose what their audience finds to be acceptable for humor.

Right, furthermore, if a comedian tells a "politically incorrect" joke and no one ever laughs at it they are going to drop it from their act pretty quickly.

99% of the time when I hear a comic on stage decrying political correctness, it's right after trying a bit that isn't funny.

So to highlight this, the comic things their joke is so undeniably funny that if an audience doesn't laugh, you assume the only possible reason for the lack of laughter is "rampant political correctness"

It's incredibly egotistical.

There is a difference between not laughing at jokes and starting internet campaigns to shame the comedians.

 

[Addi]

What are some examples of pc killing comedy?

Charlie Hebdo

Spoiler

sorry

 

[Trurl]

Mel Brooks is 91

Don't be ageist.

 

[Arkage]

This reminds me of how mortally offended some persons are by the very idea of directionality in comedy ("Punching up vs punching down.")

Comedy can be transgressive and free and even offensive while being used for a better purpose than a worse one.

Punching up basically means you'd only be allowed to make jokes about cis straight white males per social justice theories/trends, no? Makes for a pretty bland variety.

 

[Vermillion]

I mean, humor always changes with what people find acceptable.

None of these comedians would tell certain jokes that would fly in the 1800s, for example.

 

[prag16]

Old white guy misunderstands political correctness, news at 11.

It's about not being a dick by smugly adding to other people's piles of misery when they already tower over your own.

It's about asking yourself "am I punching up or punching down?" before you open your mouth.

It sounds like your attitude is exactly what he is criticizing. The idea of things being off limits due to this punching up/down concept (or other reasons). So not sure if he is misunderstanding anything at all.

Punching up basically means you'd only be allowed to make jokes about cis straight white males per social justice theories/trends, no? Makes for a pretty bland variety.

Basically.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

The bolded is exactly why all of the worry about political correctness killing comedy is overblown. This is as true now as it ever was. The only difference nowadays is that, because of technological progress, a) everyone has a camera, so a fuckup (in any regard) never just disappears and b) everyone has a voice, so people who take offense can more easily be heard (and often, ridiculed). That's a different phenomenon from "everybody's too sensitive nowadays."

In some ways you're completely right. But it's not just being heard that is more accessible. There is a mob mentality that has developed in the last 5-6 years, and things that people got offended over half a decade ago has changed as well over time.

 

[JCX]

Right, furthermore, if a comedian tells a "politically incorrect" joke and no one ever laughs at it they are going to drop it from their act pretty quickly.

Lol I only wish this were true. I've seen people carrying around bad jokes for years. Comedians generally are delusional, but those guys can be delusional even in the context of comedians.

 

[legacyzero]

Comedians don't get to choose what their audience finds to be acceptable for humor.

But.... they do. That's why they have an audience. And yes, Comedians SHOULD try to dictate what's funny. Not by yelling "WHY DONT YOU FIND ME FUNNY?!" But by taking those risks, being bold, and being unique.

 

[prag16]

Lol I only wish this were true. I've seen people carrying around bad jokes for years. Comedians generally are delusional, but those guys can be delusional even in the context of comedians.

Just because you're not laughing doesn't mean nobody's laughing. They wouldn't "carry around bad jokes for years" if everybody thought they were bad. EDIT: Either that or, as the post below says, they may just be terrible comedians.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Lol I only wish this were true. I've seen people carrying around bad jokes for years. Comedians generally are delusional, but those guys can be delusional even in the context of comedians.

Should I clarify that with "good comedians"? If they are keeping a bad joke that flubs every single time then they don't have the material to fill their set.

 

[rezn0r]

Dave Chappelle wasn't doing a college tour, either. Had he been with that joke there likely would be large protests per usual. Which is fine for students to do if they want, but it's the reason why many big name comedians now avoid colleges like the plague. It's directly correlated to the level of political correctness that exists in college bubbles.

I've heard at least a half dozen famous comics say exactly this over the past couple of years.

 

[Aeana]

I'll link specifically to the most relevant portion of Lindsay Ellis's video which is about the very quotes being discussed in this thread.

https://youtu.be/62cPPSyoQkE?t=2025

But I strongly recommend watching the entire thing. The section prior to this one is also fairly relevant.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Maybe if you keep saying PCness is killing comedy over and and over again it'll come true. Like Bloody Mary in front of a mirror. Or Beetlejuice.

 

[Limit]

A reading of his point I agree with is that nothing should be off limits but the actual human tragedy of the victims of oppression. The problem is that the term "political correctness" means fuck all at this point. When a term spans a band of "wild cotton shouldn't be sold as decor" to I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction by saying "let's lynch that n****" and how dare you to correct me, it truly has lost all meaning (even if you have a hard on for Schopenhauer).

A video that makes the point better than I ever will:

Mel Brooks, The Producers and the Ethics of Satire about Nazis

Enjoyed watching the whole thing. Thanks for the link.

 

[GTI Guy]

Why would anyone want to tell a holocaust joke?

Sometimes it's funny?
http://www.summiticeapparel.com

 

[Audioboxer]

Charlie Hebdo

Spoiler

sorry

Jimmy Carr actually incorporates that into this part of his act

Most Offensive Joke

The above has rape, holocaust, Hitler, handicapped children, religion, sex jokes and use of the word cunt all rolled into one.

I think the British have historically done "better" with responding to dark humour/satire and "getting it". Or at least being able to say I don't like this, and moving on without doing what I posted about earlier which is people taking offence on behalf of other people and/or trying to force others not to enjoy/laugh at things they do not like. Or not simply criticising the comedian(s), but trying to get them tarred as something serious in anger that they tell jokes/satirise something that a person deems off-limits (someone earlier in here referring to Mel Brooks as a milkshake duck... what? Evidence please).

I remember this comedians special olympics song going quite viral when I was young. Funnily enough, it's an American comedian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAovDtiLDPQ

 

[JCX]

Just because you're not laughing doesn't mean nobody's laughing. They wouldn't "carry around bad jokes for years" if everybody thought they were bad.

I know. Usually what happens is that it "kinda worked" a couple times but never consistently, so instead of iterating on the joke to make it hit harder, they tell the same version over and over again.

I still do a version of a joke i wrote when I started in 2009, but parts were just offensive and other parts not funny, so I iterated until it got to a reliably strong place, which didn't happen until last year.

Should I clarify that with "good comedians"? If they are keeping a bad joke that flubs every single time then they don't have the material to fill their set.

"Good comedians" usually are skilled enough to where they can tell jokes on controversial topics without being offensive in a way that isn't basic. I trust Louis and Dave because they're pros. That doesn't give license to average "my friends think I'm funny" Joe to make racist/homophobic jokes though, since they obviously don't have the skill of a pro. Of course they can try, but they shouldn't be surprised if they get called out.

What people often fail to realize is that there is a huge difference between telling a joke about an offensive topic, and telling a joke whose whole point is to be lazily offensive without any specific POV.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

By your logic, comedy in its entirety should be abandoned. Because you can find some person on this planet to be offended about any particular joke you could make.

An asian could be offended by a comedian making asian eyes. An obese person could be offended about someone making a joke about it. A short person could be offended by a joke about short people.

Literally, you cannot tell a joke that there is no person on this planet that could not find it offensive.

Which simply begs the question, is that a problem of comedy, or the individual that finds offense in the fact that comedy of this kind exists?

Even Mel Brooks has his line that he doesn't cross, admitting as such in the context that we each have our own 'line'', but contending that crossing those lines is an essential experience we all should endure for the benefit of the art of comedy. I contend that as civilization becomes more sophisticated, our sense of comedy evolves with us. Just like making 'Asian eyes' is something we have removed from our comedic vocabulary in most cultures.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Yep, agreed. One of my favorite examples is the tv show Married with Children. That show would get cancelled prior to airing if it was done the same way in today's politically correct world

 

[Occam]

He's right.

Note to self: Start building an ignore list and put anyone who called him a hypocrite on it.

PC-ism is essentially thought police.
Learn why some things are wrong AND THEN stop doing/saying them, instead of just pretending.
Be ethically correct, not politically correct.

PC-ism hasn't made intolerance and chauvinism disappear in its country of origin. An old misogynistic racist is president.

 

[Prodigal Son]

He's 91 you guys. Pete's sake

 

[Slayven]

People just don't like being challenge or cheapen comedy and satire to give some bigotry a pass

 

[DrForester]

I'll link specifically to the most relevant portion of Lindsay Ellis's video which is about the very quotes being discussed in this thread.

https://youtu.be/62cPPSyoQkE?t=2025

But I strongly recommend watching the entire thing. The section prior to this one is also fairly relevant.

This video needs to be in the op.

 

[Skellig Gra]

He's 91 you guys. Pete's sake

What a hollow argument. So people in their 20's with no experience in comedy know more about this than someone who has been actively doing it for 60 years?

 

[JCX]

I'll link specifically to the most relevant portion of Lindsay Ellis's video which is about the very quotes being discussed in this thread.

https://youtu.be/62cPPSyoQkE?t=2025

But I strongly recommend watching the entire thing. The section prior to this one is also fairly relevant.

Thanks for this. I agree with this portion of the video. I'll watch the rest later today.

 

[Beartruck]

I can kind of get what he's saying. Blazing Saddles has a lot of offensive material that gave them difficulty when they were shopping it around to studios, and there's no chance a big studio would make that movie today. It's an uplifting film though about a black man who through only his guile and wits overcomes a situation deliberately rigged against him. It never punches down.

Also:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rrect-society-death-comedy-warns-veteran/amp/
Well there you go, he won't touch concentration camp jokes but everything is ok. Apparently it's only pc gone mad if it doesn't affect you personally.

You know there's an entire segment of History of the world part 1 where Jews are beaten, drowned and shoved into iron maidens right? I think he only holds back on concentration camp jokes because he served in WW2 and saw that firsthand.

 

[Dehnus]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rrect-society-death-comedy-warns-veteran/amp/



Well there you go, he won’t touch concentration camp jokes but everything is ok. Apparently it’s only pc gone mad if it doesn’t affect you personally.

He says that is his personal limit. But others can go that far. He doesn't have to like it. Everybody has their limits. That you have to respect, doesn't mean you can't personally so it, it just means that person won't. We are all hypocrites. But people here will probably attack the left again...

 

[YaBish]

I love Brooks' movies, but this is bs. Political correctness hasn't and isn't about making topics taboo. It's about sensitivity on topics that can dig into deep wounds that society has created. Last I checked, none of these jokes were illegal. Hell, we have literal Nazis and KKK in the streets in 2017. I think that if their views are freaking allowed to fester as much as they have, then racist comedy and Holocaust jokes are probably safe for a long time.

I've never understood why people are so willing to defend racist/sexist humor when there's a billion other ways to make humans laugh.

Edit: As others have noted, it's important to distinguish between racist/sexist humor that serves to empower the subject of the joke by showing that the people that resort to that are racist/sexist/moronic. That is subversion, and I don't see anyone really having a problem with that unless they just don't get it.

 

[borghe]

agree with many others, and Brooks.

Comedy is precisely the place to DEFUSE the hate, bigotry, etc.

His use of slurs and stereotypes in Blazing Saddles provides context into how truly idiotic and dim witted the villains are. Clevon Little's famous response to "two negroes" is a prime example "my mother is half Dutch"

PC is one way of attacking the problem. My only problem with PC is that while it's intended to be education, "This is why you don't say so-and-so", it often comes off as whining "dude you can't say that!!" Those are two very different statements.. and very rarely is PC viewed as the former.

Comedy is another way of attacking the problem. Take away the power of the word and it loses power for the groups that use it. Set in the mainstream mind set that people who use said words are ignorant, uneducated, etc.. people stop using it publicly..

That being said.. .comedy is such a fine line. Where does satire and critique end and abuse or inappropriateness begin? I suppose it comes down to intent.. but deriving intent is so subjective..

 

[ratcliffja]

Jokes should not be racist, sexist, transphobic etc.
But there is a big difference between making fun of racism or making a racist joke. The former is obviously not wrong, the latter is and is not pc. Which is what confuses me because I never saw a racist joke from the comedians I mentioned but they all attacked political correctness.

I might give blazing saddles a watch though.

Blazing Saddles is my favorite comedy of all time. It's great at making fun of racists, though it's guilty of homophobia towards the end.

 

[valkyre]

Even Mel Brooks has his line that he doesn't cross, admitting as such in the context that we each have our own 'line'', but contending that crossing those lines is an essential experience we all should endure for the benefit of the art of comedy. I contend that as civilization becomes more sophisticated, our sense of comedy evolves with us. Just like making 'Asian eyes' is something we have removed from our comedic vocabulary in most cultures.

Mostly I agree. You and me could find specific jokes not funny. I get that. I surely dont like a lot of the jokes that I am "defending" here, mostly because of the way they are presented which is tasteless.

But there are good versions of these jokes out there, that imo dont have to be afraid of being censored. Our personal lines are there for us to make necessary judgement. I am not against someone criticizing something he thinks was distasteful and poor. I am though, against the extreme version of PC that makes creators tip toe carefully in everything they write, as if they are walking down a minefield.

If I can put it somehow in words: its not politically correct to be extremely politically correct.

 

[borghe]

Blazing Saddles is my favorite comedy of all time. It's great at making fun of racists, though it's guilty of homophobia towards the end.

on the contrary... the end was in fact how a LOT of gay men acted both individually and toward each other at the time. not only was it not homophobic IMHO, but it was pretty blatantly on the nose for the time.. probably even made more than a few homophobes uncomfortable when watching it. yeah it didn't age particularly well with the strides we've made since then... but yeah, definitely not homophobic for the time.. actually pretty damn progressive for a mainstream movie.

 

[Sanke__]

He is 100% correct

 

[nkarafo]

Comedy/satire should not have any restrains IMO. Each individual has the right to like it or hate it but comedians should not have to deal with bans, restricted topics, etc.

 

[Pyroclastic]

Any subject can be funny given the right context. I find this bit on the day today to do with 9/11 funny, and it's not because I take any pleasure that 3000 people lost their lives with many others being immeasurably altered.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SPWgodul_E

 

[Soapbox Killer]

He's not wrong. He's also not the only high level comic to say things like this.

 

[deli2000]

I love Brooks' movies, but this is bs. Political correctness hasn't and isn't about making topics taboo. It's about sensitivity on topics that can dig into deep wounds that society has created. Last I checked, none of these jokes were illegal. Hell, we have literal Nazis and KKK in the streets in 2017. I think that if their views are freaking allowed to fester as much as they have, then racist comedy and Holocaust jokes are probably safe for a long time.

I've never understood why people are so willing to defend racist/sexist humor when there's a billion other ways to make humans laugh.

Those ways don't really count because as everyone knows, the only way to be creative & risk taking in comedy is to throw slurs around like a 15 year old then add a bland milquetoast political point at the end.

 

[Beartruck]

Blazing Saddles is my favorite comedy of all time. It's great at making fun of racists, though it's guilty of homophobia towards the end.

He makes up for that a little in "To be or not to be", which has an entire subplot about saving the female lead's gay hairdresser from being sent to a concentration camp.

 

[squall23]

Did anyone watch Conan last night. Max Brooks was a guest and he claims that Mel Brooks is essentially teaching his brand of comedy to Max's son which worries him.

 

[borghe]

He makes up for that a little in "To be or not to be", which has an entire subplot about saving the female lead's gay hairdresser from being sent to a concentration camp.

see above. Most found it really progressive (Blazing Saddles). The big problem is it didn't age particularly well based on how the LGBT culture matured forward. For the time though, it was more celebrated by the community than offensive to it.

 

[Ekai]

So he's not okay with jokes about things that draw on his and his community's history... buuut every other group and their history is fair game?

Hypocritical...

Pretty much my take-away from this. Well, respect lost for Mel today.

 

[Drackhorn]

For a true comic, nothing is out, everything is made fun of.

George Carlin is the prime example.

This.

 

[brau]

Why do I get the feeling that some people didn't read the link in the OP?

 

[Skellig Gra]

Pretty much my take-away from this. Well, respect lost for Mel today.

Have you ever watched anything he's done? He's constantly making fun of Jews.