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[The Artisan]

Yeah, but remember beliefs started with polytheism before it evolved to monotheism, and in your hypothetical situation, the likely belief a man on an island would have is the Sun is god like so many civilizations before him because it brings him light, and heat.

did all of polytheism predate monotheism? i think judaism is one of the oldest religions

 

[lightskintwin]

did all of polytheism predate monotheism? i think judaism is one of the oldest religions

YES. Yet monotheists never want to reconcile that part of history.

 

[The Artisan]

YES. Yet monotheists never want to reconcile that part of history.

i think if your mind worked this way you can just think of polytheism and monotheism as one in the same. god of thunder, god of wisdom, god of this personified,, that personified etc. could just all be traits of one deity. but that is just one way of looking at it

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

i think if your mind worked this way you can just think of polytheism and monotheism as one in the same. god of thunder, god of wisdom, god of this personified,, that personified etc. could just all be traits of one deity. but that is just one way of looking at it

That would be more of the transition from Polytheism to Monotheism. If I remember correctly the current theory is most Polytheistic religions actually started wih Animism which is at its very basic is a belief that everything around you has a spirit no matter if it's a dog,tree,rock or mountain now this doesn't mean that at that point their was worship of everything more a set of ritualized interactions with the world. Eventually in many cilvilizations certains spirits were worshipped due to an importance attributed to them and these became the gods of polytheistic religions and of course many polytheistic religion still retained some aspect of animism.

 

[The Artisan]

That would be more of the transition from Polytheism to Monotheism. If I remember correctly the current theory is most Polytheistic religions actually started wih Animism which is at its very basic is a belief that everything around you has a spirit no matter if it's a dog,tree,rock or mountain now this doesn't mean that at that point their was worship of everything more a set of ritualized interactions with the world. Eventually in many cilvilizations certains spirits were worshipped due to an importance attributed to them and these became the gods of polytheistic religions and of course many polytheistic religion still retained some aspect of animism.

does burial have a place in animism? the earliest form of spirituality in any species i think is that

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

does burial have a place in animism? the earliest form of spirituality in any species i think is that

Yes, As Humans would also have spirits and these would last after death as a sign of respect burials would be done. This can even lead to forms of ancestor worship that you find in places like China.

Edit: Another example would be some form of ritual done after killing an animal thanking it for it's meat and fur etc. This is done in many Native American tribes as a way to prevent the animal from seeking revenge in the after life as it was/is thought that was how sickness was caused.

 

[The Artisan]

Yes, As Humans would also have spirits and these would last after death as a sign of respect burials would be done. This can even lead to forms of ancestor worship that you find in places like China.

Edit: Another example would be some form of ritual done after killing an animal thanking it for it's meat and fur etc. This is done in many Native American tribes as a way to prevent the animal from seeking revenge in the after life as it was/is thought that was how sickness was caused.

i just know that the first people to bury their dead were Neanderthals and they weren't even the same species.

 

[bsp]

did all of polytheism predate monotheism? i think judaism is one of the oldest religions

Judaism was originally polytheistic. Yahweh was just one of many gods before he became the greatest god, and then the only god. This supposed omnimax being got retconned at least twice by his own people. Sad.

 

[The Artisan]

Judaism was originally polytheistic. Yahweh was just one of many gods before he became the greatest god, and then the only god. This supposed omnimax being got retconned at least twice by his own people. Sad.

If Judaism was originally polytheistic, does that mean the original Jews were polytheists?

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

i just know that the first people to bury their dead were Neanderthals and they weren't even the same species.

Of course Animism doesn't require a Human. If any animal would have the thought process to attribute a spirit to things around them than they are practicing a form of animism. I may not believe in any god or gods but I love the animist mindset .Polytheism happens (I hope I'm getting this right anybody who more knowledgeable in this field correct me) when a hierarchy starts to be established between the spirits and a pantheon is formed.Even in a monotheistic religion like Judaic ones they have an order with God and than a plethora of angelic beings often with some type of aspect attributed to them.

 

[dragonzdogma]

From IFLS



excommunicate me if old

Researchers from the UK and the Netherlands suggest that religion might be an instinct and rejection of instinct, being able to "rise above it", is linked to higher intelligence.

I've seen babies swim by instinct to survive

 

[The Artisan]

Of course Animism doesn't require a Human. If any animal would have the thought process to attribute a spirit to things around them than they are practicing a form of animism. I may not believe in any god or gods but I love the animist mindset .Polytheism happens (I hope I'm getting this right anybody who more knowledgeable in this field correct me) when a hierarchy starts to be established between the spirits and a pantheon is formed.Even in a monotheistic religion like Judaic ones they have an order with God and than a plethora of angelic beings often with some type of aspect attributed to them.

word yeah that makes actually but i think it must mean something that a prehistoric species besides ancient humans buried their dead.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

word yeah that makes actually but i think it must mean something that a prehistoric species besides ancient humans buried their dead.

I think you are missing some words but yeah when a species reaches a point of ritualizing which is what burial is that would be a massive developmental milestone. It means it has an attachment to others around it. The process of burial can cause a florising of culture based around the burial (Which I bet archaeologist are forever thankful for). It has also showed that species has a more developed understanding of the world it lives in. Among other things I'm probably wont be able to pull out of my head no matter how obvious.

 

[lightskintwin]

If Judaism was originally polytheistic, does that mean the original Jews were polytheists?

The Israelites were originally Canaanites that sectioned off and rebelled against other Canaanites, so yes they had a completely different belief system at one point in time.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Of course Animism doesn't require a Human. If any animal would have the thought process to attribute a spirit to things around them than they are practicing a form of animism. I may not believe in any god or gods but I love the animist mindset .Polytheism happens (I hope I'm getting this right anybody who more knowledgeable in this field correct me) when a hierarchy starts to be established between the spirits and a pantheon is formed.Even in a monotheistic religion like Judaic ones they have an order with God and than a plethora of angelic beings often with some type of aspect attributed to them.

I'm anthropologist, not a historian, but I think concepts of belief systems 'transitioning' from one thing to another is a little out of date and out of favour, and ultimately must be based on a good deal of speculation, as much of it occurs in unwritten portions of history. Any claims in this regard are up for debate, and probably differ on a case by case basis. For instance there are other ways in which pantheons of gods could conceivably arise from local guardian spirits, and tribes or villages joining together etc.

As far as animism vs theism goes (of anybody's interested), one of my favourite ethnographies is Hugh Brody's Other Side of Eden. He compares the creation stories of arctic hunter-gatherer tribes with that of Genesis, and makes a strong case for the Judeo-Christian belief system being one of agriculturalists - of dominating nature, rather than forming relationships with it. Indeed, when you read much of it back it makes a lot of sense
; e.g. all that going forth and multiplying is a good strategy for agricultural societies, but a bad one for those living in a hunter-gatherer system.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

I'm anthropologist, not a historian, but I think concepts of belief systems 'transitioning' from one thing to another is a little out of date and out of favour, and ultimately must be based on a good deal of speculation, as much of it occurs in unwritten portions of history. Any claims in this regard are up for debate, and probably differ on a case by case basis. For instance there are other ways in which pantheons of gods could conceivably arise from local guardian spirits, and tribes or villages joining together etc.

As far as animism vs theism goes (of anybody's interested), one of my favourite ethnographies is Hugh Brody's Other Side of Eden. He compares the creation stories of arctic hunter-gatherer tribes with that of Genesis, and makes a strong case for the Judeo-Christian belief system being one of agriculturalists - of dominating nature, rather than forming relationships with it. Indeed, when you read much of it back it makes a lot of sense
; e.g. all that going forth and multiplying is a good strategy for agricultural societies, but a bad one for those living in a hunter-gatherer system.

Yeah sorry if I gave that impression I was trying to avoid it. I was using Animism as a base structure not as a beginning tier of an evolution of belief system which is definitely out of date as that tries to establish that those with polytheistic structures are more advance than animist and those of mono is more advance than poly which is not the case at all.

 

[grumble]

I'm an atheist, and I just don't think this is true. Many of history's noteworthy intellects were religious. Isaac Newton was way smarter than me. Charles Darwin was studying to be a pastor when he came up with the theory of evolution. A Catholic Priest came up with the Big Bang Theory.

Not disagreeing with you, but two counterpoints. First, back then almost everyone was religious. Not being religious was unacceptable. Atheism was not OK. It follows that most old-time discoverers would be religious.

Second, it's likely seen as a broad trend, and not 'every religious person is mentally deficient'. It's just that, on average, with high dispersion, atheists tend to be a bit sharper. According to this study.

My experience has been that a lot of highly educated people are not religious at all and identify as atheists, but it isn't clear that they are atheists because they are smart. It because they were raised in an environment that valued reason and structured thinking, and their studies forced them to adapt to that mindset to be successful. It might also breed a need for evidence-based belief in their spiritual lives as well.

 

[grumble]

did all of polytheism predate monotheism? i think judaism is one of the oldest religions

Judaism is actually thought of as evolving out of a polytheistic belief. it's really interesting, I recommend a dive into Wikipedia.

 

[Zeuanimals]

i think if your mind worked this way you can just think of polytheism and monotheism as one in the same. god of thunder, god of wisdom, god of this personified,, that personified etc. could just all be traits of one deity. but that is just one way of looking at it

Some people even think of Catholicism as a polytheistic religion since some people pray to different entities in the Catholic pantheon and some consider them to do different things.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Some people even think of Catholicism as a polytheistic religion since some people pray to different entities in the Catholic pantheon and some consider them to do different things.

Yeah, with all the saints etc., you end up with something that can be viewed polytheistically emerging from an ostensibly monotheistic religion.

Researchers from the UK and the Netherlands suggest that religion might be an instinct and rejection of instinct, being able to "rise above it", is linked to higher intelligence.

I've seen babies swim by instinct to survive

I think the problem with the idea of religious 'instinct' is that you have to pin down what religion really is. I mean ultimately it's just a label, and you can't have an instinct for a label.

As a construct it only makes sense when viewed from the perspective of multiple belief systems. If (as has happened) you find a fairly isolated community or tribe, and ask them about their 'religion' they won't know what you're talking about. There's no 'religion' as they see it, just their axiomatic belief of the way the world works, and they couldn't imagine anyone thinking anything different. It's just common-sense. So ulimately you simply have an 'instinct' for believing you know how the world works. The difference isn't between religiosity and non-religiosity, but, in a complex world with many possible options, which one you chose to formulate your own world view.

 

[Air]

Judaism is actually thought of as evolving out of a polytheistic belief. it's really interesting, I recommend a dive into Wikipedia.

From what I remember in school, Judaism was henotheistic at the beginning, or acknowledging that there may be other gods but the God of israel was the greatest.

Edit:

Henotheism is essentially proto-monotheism

Various scholars prefer the term monolatry to henotheism, to discuss religions where a single god is central, but the existence or the position of other gods is not denied.[1][6] According to Christoph Elsas, henotheism in modern usage connotes a syncretic stage in the development of religions in late antiquity. A henotheist may worship a single god from a pantheon of deities at a given time, depending on his or her choice, while accepting other deities and concepts of god.[5][2] Henotheism and inclusive monotheism are terms that refer to a middle position between unlimited polytheism and exclusive monotheism.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism