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[_Alkaline_]

That was kind of taken care of with "beam stacking" in Corruption.

Indeed, and it was something Corruption nailed.

I have a lot of time for that game but it's clearly not at the same level as its older brothers. It removed the convoluted moments that plagued the first two Primes but unfortunately at the expense of genuine complexity. It's essentially 'Metroid Prime Lite', making it an incredibly fun game but not quite as memorable and satisfying.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I love it when great concepts that'll I'll buy day one gets rejected.

 

[Nessus]

It did frustrate me how certain doors could only be opened with certain beams. Prime did the same thing and it was just as annoying then. Retro made a large oversight there, as they could have simply made it a one-time thing. Instead they basically gave a little more reason to switch beams at the cost of convenience.

It was one of the ways they masked loading times. Every second you spend changing beams to open a door is one you aren't standing in front of a door waiting for it to open.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Wow, amazing find! I love reading design docs and proposals.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usIQmSI7Kcw

As someone in here already said, bizarre but intriguing. Definitely a rough draft, but something good could have come out of this if it was pursued.

 

[EatChildren]

Really good idea in my opinion, especially the power-up system, which is a good example of the kind of new shit Metroid needs to do to keep itself fresh.

Ahh, Retro. Easily one of Nintendo's best assets.

 

[CamHostage]

I've love to see a game with everything in there except for the Humetroid and multiplayer aspects.

Really, you hate the Humetroids? I realize it's a generic technique to just take an enemy and cross-breed them with humans to create the "ultimate foe", but the medling of humans and metroids fits with that host/parasite storyline and the Aliens vibe of the series. I'm happy they didn't go that way because it feels like it's been done a billion times before (the Flood is enough) but I like their approach of having the host suffer when the parasite is away.

 

[mr_nothin]

Uh. That's... uh.

So I guess that's one of the "Retro pitched Samus as a bounty hunter catching criminals and Nintendo said no" proposals.


Suddenly I understand that it might not have just been Nintendo being obstinate.


EDIT: Don't get me wrong here, but this involves Retro doing multiplayer and doing human environments with people in them, and as cool as the art design would have been, the idea of Retro doing stealth nightclub sections in first person in Metroid sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Mass Effect 2

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Wrote something up for Kotaku Australia - but linked back to your post of course! Hope you don't mind.

Such an awesome find.

Thanks for the credit, I appreciate it.

 

[trinest]

Sounds cool- would of been more enjoyable then their other Metroid games they made by a long shot.

 

[Kandinsky]

I wish somebody else bought them, fuck you Nintendo.

 

[EatChildren]

I wish somebody else bought them, fuck you Nintendo.

It was Nintendo who stepped in and put them in line, pushing Metroid Prime towards the quality title we got.

Sometimes I think that Nintendo's supposedly strict attitude on creative freedom and intense hands-on approach with their studios does more harm than good (if true), but nobody can deny that the four wonderful games we've gotten out of Retro were, to some degree, influenced by the parent company.

Remove Nintendo from the equasion and you might not be getting games of the same quality and polish. People worried that Retro were done after a bunch of key personal left, and then we got DKCR.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I wish somebody else bought them, fuck you Nintendo.

What the hell? Nintendo handed Retro one of gaming's greatest franchises and let them take three cracks at it. Not every single concept becomes a full fledged game. If this had been the followup to Prime and people were just now learning of Echoes as some lost proposal would there be equal anger?

 

[Instro]

Something like this being revived for Nintendo's next console would be nice. Either that or give Retro a shot at developing a new IP.

 

[farnham]

looks great

too bad it did not get a go

but hey we got DKCR which is awesome

retro am gods!

I wish somebody else bought them, fuck you Nintendo.

they are wholly owned by nintendo

also someone else (say sony)

buying retro will not give you the 2.5d metroid game

 

[VerTiGo]

What the hell? Nintendo handed Retro one of gaming's greatest franchises and let them take three cracks at it.

Every bit of Nintendo's involvement with Retro points to reasons why their products are as great as they are, not as greater they would've been without them.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Damn, that powerup system sounds amazing!

I like the ideas proposed (aside from the stupid nightclub multiplayer idea) but there was no way that they could do that in a year, no way in hell.

 

[MYE]

I wish somebody else bought them, fuck you Nintendo.

lol?

 

[Sadist]

Thing sounds fantastc, I love the whole different AI concept. The whole "Child" thing sounds a bit like a early Dead Space.

 

[Mdk7]

sounds great...
(and sooo much better than Other M)

I wanna see the pics though!

 

[Maxrunner]

IS this guy still at Retro?

 

[[Nintex]]

I've seen people mention Mass Effect in this thread a few times and that was actually the original idea for Metroid Prime 3. Samus would fly to different planets to solve different problems(destroy space pirates, kill viruses etc.) but Nintendo rejected it. Along with the idea of a more haunting Metroid game with darker visuals.

Damn, that powerup system sounds amazing!

I like the ideas proposed (aside from the stupid nightclub multiplayer idea) but there was no way that they could do that in a year, no way in hell.

If they used the same engine, team and even re-used some assets I'm sure it would've been possible.

 

[Maxrunner]

cant see any pics...

 

[[Nintex]]

Is that where Valhalla came from? God, that had some amazing, creepy atmosphere. I'd love to see Metroid take that and run with it.

Nintendo doesn't show much of games in production so the only source of information on that sort of thing are interviews and comments from the staff or early artwork. The concept art is usually different from the final product but in the case of Metroid Prime 3 some art is just out of place and clearly from a different pitch of the game.

oh and this guy apparently worked on Epic Mickey as well

Junction Point Studios/Disney Interactive (June 09 to Oct 10)

Senior Designer: Epic Mickey (Wii)


Responsibilities included GDD authoring, Building maps, creating and tuning game mechanics, collaborating with the Lead Designer, Lead Programmer, Lead Artist, and Producers on a daily basis to ensure that the project was moving along and being developed in the right direction. In addition, I provided guidance and review to the Jr. and Mid Designers on the team. Levels that I was directly involved in creating were Dark Beauty Castle Visits 1 and 2, World Of Gremlins, Space Voyage Visit 2 and Tomorrow City square Visit 2.

Some of the levels he listed are easily the best in the game especially compared to some of the trash also found in Epic Mickey.

 

[spanks]

I want to know more about their Zelda game. At least tell us the genre, please Retro?

 

[Starwolf_UK]

What were the design docs for other Retro projects like. You know, the online racing game with guns, Raven Blade, The American football with only the cheerleaders complete etc...

I'd say if they were similarly ambitious but missed the mark in execution I can understand why Nintendo would be like "no, thats impossible, remember the other stuff we canced, just make something with the Metroid Prime structure".

 

[Keio]

Did anyone mirror the doc? I'd love to have it...

edit: found it here http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Metroid_1.5

 

[Rafaelcsa]

I know I'm not helping in saying this, but just like how every Smash Bros. thread turns into "Brawl sucks, Melee rules", now every Metroid thread will turn into "Other M sucks, Super/Prime rule". Damn guys, in respect for this thread and for the people who actually like the game, could you at least leave the Other M discussion for its own thread?

I'd love if Retro revisited this game's ideas for a new Metroid. Maybe the time would be even better, since the Prime series is (supposedly) done, so it wouldn't be confusing to have a non-related game now. I don't really need multiplayer in Metroid, but the single-player ideas are nice and could be expanded upon.

Still, I'm glad we got Echoes. It's a great game and I wouldn't like for that one to be the cancelled game.

 

[Azure J]

I've seen people mention Mass Effect in this thread a few times and that was actually the original idea for Metroid Prime 3. Samus would fly to different planets to solve different problems(destroy space pirates, kill viruses etc.) but Nintendo rejected it. Along with the idea of a more haunting Metroid game with darker visuals.

This + Echoes/Aether level complexities on each planet is EXACTLY what I thought MP3 was going to be and got incredibly hyped for. While Corruption was a really really good game in the end though, it never really hit the high points of Prime 1, let alone Echoes. If the original concept had been pushed through however...

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Was this a sidescrolling concept or FPA?

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I knew before entering the thread some people would start crying about the Other M when it has little to do with this game.

Now, talk about the prime saga and how the game would have worked within it and
I will have preferred this than Metroid Prime 2.
Look, I dont like Metroid Prime 2 (but Im not as idiot to be calling it the most atrocious metroid in the planet just for not liking it), and this seems the more inovative of the two ideas.
I hated Aether, i hated the plot, I hated dark samus and I hated the dark/light piece of shit system. Is nothing but an aglomeration of things that were done in other games and ,and much better than in MP2. The puzzles and difficulty were the good things about the game, but the rest is forgetable in my opinion.
In exchange the Metroid Prime 1.5 idea, even if its also some copies of other games, seems more inovative if it were presented in a good way inside a Metroid Prime game.
Yep, even the multiplayer aspect. The villians idea seems better, the different envirmoments in the ship depending of the IA seems better, the unlocking stuff seems better.
Having the good things of Metroid Prime 2 into the Metroid Prime 1.5 idea would have maybe done an incredible Metroid Prime game.

If I would had been in the position of having to scrap one game to make the other, I would have scrapped all of Aether, MP2 storyline and would have tied the IA infection of the spaceship in 1.5 to the phazon Prime story.

oh and this guy apparently worked on Epic Mickey as well

Junction Point Studios/Disney Interactive (June 09 to Oct 10)

Senior Designer: Epic Mickey (Wii)


Responsibilities included GDD authoring, Building maps, creating and tuning game mechanics, collaborating with the Lead Designer, Lead Programmer, Lead Artist, and Producers on a daily basis to ensure that the project was moving along and being developed in the right direction. In addition, I provided guidance and review to the Jr. and Mid Designers on the team. Levels that I was directly involved in creating were Dark Beauty Castle Visits 1 and 2, World Of Gremlins, Space Voyage Visit 2 and Tomorrow City square Visit 2.

Some of the levels he listed are easily the best in the game especially compared to some of the trash also found in Epic Mickey.

No.
The only good level he did from there was Dark Beauty Castle I and II, the rest were the worst levels in all the game. Gremlin Village, mediocre part from its a small world. Tomorrow City Square, worst piece of shit of the game, AKA how to get something that is not forgotten as Tron, and copypasted all around a world that could have been awesome.

 

[syoaran]

Some of the ideas in the OP were fantastic, the stat-bot and limited functions being released are great twists on the existing metriod platform.

Story is something that I would have probably enjoyed, but on paper it sounds a bit like a fanfic.

 

[radcliff]

The description of the aliens reminds me of the Borg- assimilate aspects of other’s beings to achieve their own perfection while adapting to the offensive abilities of their enemies. Sounds like this would have been a really cool game. I agree Retro should try to repackage this as a new IP and re-pitch to Nintendo for their next console.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

I've fixed all the images in the OP - sorry about that.

And, Mr Giovanni's taken down his entire website. I'm a bit confused as to why, as this document seems to have been freely available for quite a while (if never noticed until now).

 

[Chet Rippo]

I've fixed all the images in the OP - sorry about that.

And, Mr Giovanni's taken down his entire website. I'm a bit confused as to why, as this document seems to have been freely available for quite a while (if never noticed until now).

Nintendo probably caught wind of it and told him to remove it.

 

[Dragmire]

Some of the ideas there sound nice but the backlash from this game would have been as bad as Other M (which for the record I liked). There would be no Metroid-y isolation. Some of the ideas would be too far removed from Metroid to the point that a new IP would be better for this concept.

 

[Kandinsky]

lol?

I know it doesnt make much (any?) sense, but seeing them stuck with Nintendo's bs kills me, oh well at least we know what they will be doing for the next 10 years amirite? D:

 

[Wazzim]

Nintendo hates us.
The monster designs look soooo good, reminds me of ME2.

 

[Green Mamba]

I really like the idea of the AI with a split personality.

And I think that Humetroid concept is in the unlockable art gallery in Metroid Prime 2.

EDIT: And it is kind of funny that the Metroid Prime 2 Space Pirate design began as something only tangentially related to Space Pirates considering it is by far the most accurate to their 2D looks out of all of the Space Pirates in the Prime titles.

 

[nli10]

Sounds great. makes me hope for the Marathon Trilogy HD reboot even more.

 

[Plinko]

This concept sounded amazing--I would have loved to see Metroid go in this direction.

 

[Scythesurge]

To me it sounds like a very cool scenario that would make for a very poor Metroid game in terms of gameplay. But then again I can be sort of a purist when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[MNC]

Wow holy shit that's a really interesting find.

It sounds like they were going for a psychological horror/thriller in a huuuuuge space ship vessel which immediately struck me as arkham asylum/single huge location exploration/older metroid games (just the one planet)

The single player sounds immensely off from regular Metroid but a very original and positive approach. They say they'd 'lessen single player in favour of multiplayer' but to me they had the best of both worlds. "Less isolation"? You're on an abandoned space vessel with a mad AI! That's isolation total!

I hope Retro uses this for future new IPs or something; I love Retro Studios and they've done great things.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Really interesting concept. I would have loved to see it become a game.

 

[Neon_Icarus]

A Metroid thread with people complaining about Other M? How surprising...

This Metroid 1.5 sounds like it had some nice ideas, but many of them don't really fit into a Metroid game. I guess you can't blame Retro though, since there is no way Nintendo would allow them to work on an original, high-budget IP...

 

[apana]

I know it doesnt make much (any?) sense, but seeing them stuck with Nintendo's bs kills me, oh well at least we know what they will be doing for the next 10 years amirite? D:

Stop your nonsense, Retro gets a lot of guidance from EAD designers and that's part of the reason why they make so many great games. Don't forget that Nintendo had to step in and take control of Retro after the head of the studio was caught making love to a bunch of strippers or something. Besides Nintendo is always hesitant to get into new IP unless they know it can be big, not just something they do exclusively to Retro. Also remember that Retro had the choice to accept the Donkey Kong series, Miyamoto originally thought they would reject it. Much of the original Metroid Prime team isn't even around anyways. A lot went to EA, a few to Sony Santa Monica, and the three leads started Armature (which has yet to produce a game). My guess is most who left got better salary offers and the three who wanted creative control are gone now.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Retro could be like Nintendo's Naughty Dog if Kyoto HQ could just get over its ego.

 

[MNC]

Can someone mirror the document or create a pdf. metroid wikia + original site are down and I'd love to have it in some format on my hard drive, I *love* this kind of stuff and information.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Retro could be like Nintendo's Naughty Dog if Kyoto HQ could just get over its ego.

Ehhh... I think a lot of people in this thread are reading the somewhat vague proposal and filling in the gaps with their imagination, picturing some orgasmic gaming experience that is likely nothing like whatever the final product might have been. Retro already had plenty of leeway with Echoes and Corruption (where they even incorporated some similar concepts and themes), but of course people are always going to salivate over that elusive thing they never got. It's laughable to blame Nintendo for holding Retro back. Do you really think the studio would have had the same output if it wasn't for Nintendo's acquisition and subsequent supervision? Do you honestly believe they lost more than they gained from the input and heavy involvement of a company that has consistently churned out GotY quality games for more than two decades running? If you've read anything about the history of Retro it's more likely they would have quickly crumbled due to bad management without Nintendo's direct involvement, and all the talent you so highly laud would have been scattered to the four winds to work on other projects.

Now, would I like to see Retro have a freer hand in creating their own IP like Naughty Dog. Of course, at this point at least. But I think that Nintendo's involvement up to this point has been a boon. The ego comment is silly.

 

[apana]

Ehhh... I think a lot of people in this thread are reading the somewhat vague proposal and filling in the gaps with their imagination, picturing some orgasmic gaming experience that is likely nothing like whatever the final product might have been. Retro already had plenty of leeway with Echoes and Corruption (where they even incorporated some similar concepts and themes), but of course people are always going to salivate over that elusive thing they never got. It's laughable to blame Nintendo for holding Retro back. Do you really think the studio would have had the same output if it wasn't for Nintendo's acquisition and subsequent supervision? Do you honestly believe they lost more than they gained from the input and heavy involvement of a company that has consistently churned out GotY quality games for more than two decades running? If you've read anything about the history of Retro it's more likely they would have quickly crumbled due to bad management without Nintendo's direct involvement, and all the talent you so highly laud would have been scattered to the four winds to work on other projects.

Now, would I like to see Retro have a freer hand in creating their own IP like Naughty Dog. Of course, at this point at least. But I think that Nintendo's involvement up to this point has been a boon. The ego comment is silly.

Does Nintendo have any reason to do this? An IP like Uncharted does nothing for them, its expensive to develop and they will have to put big marketing dollars behind it. At most I can see them letting Retro expand to develop a 3D Donkey Kong game in addition to the inevitable 2D sequel. Maybe a top down Zelda is a possiblity.