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"Metroid 1.5" - Retro Studios rejected Metroid game
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
- Start date
Hot Coldman
Banned
apana said:
Exactly! That's all they'll be allowed to do. My point is, from a company that really only produces a huge AAA game experience every, what, 2 years at least?, Retro is a golden opportunity to bring some variety more in line with what is lighting up the marketplace nowadays. Instead, homages and updates. A 3D Donkey Kong is a good chance for Retro to breathe life into a kinda creaky franchise again, but really, they have both the tech and design expertise to create something new and brilliant.
You all know what Nintendo's western relations are like- basically, an industry low. Even Sega manage their Western studios better. Prime showed the world who Retro were, what they could do, and Prime garnered more accolades and long-term praise than any Nintendo developed title until Mario Galaxy. Retro WERE the jewel in Nintendo's crown. Having them develop 2 sequels in the space of 4 years, drive out Pacini and then hand them the DKC revival under extremely strict development conditions shows that Nintendo doesn't give anything resembling a shit about one of its most talented assets.
A new IP from Retro could be amazing. God knows we'll never know.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
apana said:
The above poster didn't necessarily say Uncharted. Hell, if Retro Studios was developing an Uncharted it would be called Star Tropics. But truthfully, there isn't a current market on a Nintendo platform for that type of game at the moment. Perhaps the next console will be able to change that.
There really isn't a need for a 3D Donkey Kong or a Retro developed town down Zelda? That latter one is out of left field sonny. But there are tons of cool dormant Famicom / Super Famicom / N64 properties that Retro Studios / NOA could recreate in the future.
Anyone falsely accusing Nintendo of handicapping Retro Studios is just not understanding what Retro Studios even is. The company from paper inception was funded by Nintendo as an affiliate. Originally Jeff Spangenberg, of Iguana Studios fame, built a lot of contacts at Nintendo of America and Nintendo Company Limited during the dream team days. Had a receptive audience when he pitched the idea of a strong US based developer working under the Nintendo umbrella. Nintendo grants some huge funds, and even courts some of the big name talent themselves (Mark Heigh-Hutchinson RIP). Spangenberg perhaps let the money and hype go to his head, Nintendo had to buy him out and completely take over from their initial partnership stake to full-ownership and control.
While internet postulates that "Retro is being held on a leash because Nintendo won't let them develop mega-original-blockbuster ip", the studio gets to work on great classic Nintendo franchises and enjoy some very hefty bonus checks for delivering polished software that sells well. In an age where publishers are liquidating great innovative development companies left and right, it is quite the privilege to work at a a place with actual job security.l
AceBandage
Banned
Personally, I'm happy with whatever Retro makes. Revivals or new games.
They are batting a thousand and I'll buy their next game regardless of what it turns out to be.
However, I will say that I would love a new IP more, in theory. It does bring the risk of them being less focused, though. With older franchises, they already have a formula and a style and expectations.
I would buy 20 copies.
They are batting a thousand and I'll buy their next game regardless of what it turns out to be.
However, I will say that I would love a new IP more, in theory. It does bring the risk of them being less focused, though. With older franchises, they already have a formula and a style and expectations.
Shikamaru Ninja said:
I would buy 20 copies.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Shikamaru Ninja said:
Well, that's an obvious benefit. Am I being a completely selfish dick? Of course! I love the Prime games enough to let myself become that person
I still think Nintendo's attitude towards Western game development is super goddamn dodgy. Pacini left for a reason, right? (Disclaimer: I am unaware of any reasons given as to why he left)
Shikamaru Ninja said:
Well was there a need for another 3D Mario? It could be a nice balance for Wii 2. One 3D Mario and one 3D Donkey Kong per console. Just like there is bound to be one 2D Mario and one 2D Donkey Kong game. Also DS Zelda games just aren't cutting it. Considering how Retro revived Metroid and Donkey Kong, they could do the same for traditional Zelda. I agree with everything else you said. These guys have great jobs, the people who wanted to work on their own frachises formed their own studios anyways. I am interested to see what Armature does in the future and if Nintendo will work with them.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah, people are letting the pitch get in the way of rational thinking. They were going to pump this out in a year? They put out Metroid Prime 2, which played very similarly to Prime 1 but with a rudimentary ammo system for the beams and a "walking around hurts you" mechanic, as well as a tacked on barebones multiplayer mode, in two years.
Imagine if you read the pitch for Prime 2 in a world where we got the game in the OP instead. An epic war between two worlds? Galactic Federation troops being slaughtered and brought back to life as mindless monsters? A race of psychic moth beings that built machines powered by nature? Robot fortresses overlooking mechanical cities? Space Pirate commandos? Evil Samus? It would have sounded like the most amazing thing ever... and while Prime 2 was a great game, obviously the execution was less grand than the concept. Few concepts are executed to their full potential.
Finally, do we know if this was "rejected" or not? I never saw that in the OP or the document. Retro probably just scaled down and changed their design on their own after they realized it wasn't feasible.
Imagine if you read the pitch for Prime 2 in a world where we got the game in the OP instead. An epic war between two worlds? Galactic Federation troops being slaughtered and brought back to life as mindless monsters? A race of psychic moth beings that built machines powered by nature? Robot fortresses overlooking mechanical cities? Space Pirate commandos? Evil Samus? It would have sounded like the most amazing thing ever... and while Prime 2 was a great game, obviously the execution was less grand than the concept. Few concepts are executed to their full potential.
Finally, do we know if this was "rejected" or not? I never saw that in the OP or the document. Retro probably just scaled down and changed their design on their own after they realized it wasn't feasible.
To be fair, just because you say you're going to release a game in a year doesn't mean you're actually going to release a game in a year.
You're right though, that the concept is always going to sound cooler than the finished product, because the concept isn't burdened with all the problems that come with actually being developed.
You're right though, that the concept is always going to sound cooler than the finished product, because the concept isn't burdened with all the problems that come with actually being developed.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Co-op multi? Awww.
Cosmonaut X
Member
sfried said:
It was also - relatively speaking - a budget title compared to something on the scale of an Uncharted. Nintendo don't seem to be particularly averse to new IP, but their typical approach seems to be to use familiar mascots/series to try out new mechanics and gameplay ideas, and only occasionally letting teams off the leash with new IP on a controlled budget.
Green Scar said:
Prime had to be salvaged by sending EAD members over to Austin.
DK Returns is essentially a US developed project helmed by Kensuke Tanabe.
Retro is a great studio, very competent with a lot of great ideas. But I can imagine that Iwata thinks they are a bit unstable at the moment to let them do a project sight unseen ala the RARE days.
And I think had Nintendo held on to RARE, that company would have spun out of control and needed to be rescued and there would have been this sad epilogue of liquidation or outright take over.
The problem AFAIK isn't with Nintendo, it's just that development in an industry where talent is hyper mobile is a challenge for them.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
EmCeeGramr said:
That really doesnt sound like Metroid Prime 2 :lol
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Let me preface my post by asking: Did Nintendo have a reason to actively pursue Sin and Punishment 2? And if you tell me it's because virtual console sales were decent for the first one I'm here to tell you that there's a dozen more compelling reasons to let Retro develop their own IP at this point. It's pretty obvious that third parties follow Nintendo's lead as far as the type of content they produce (albeit on the most superficial and short sighted level most of the time), so it would make sense for Nintendo to back a highly polished original IP from a western dev team to set the stage. Iwata has already begun to openly address the need to change the perception of their console and the sort of software it can support next generation. That's to say nothing of the benefit of having a new viable IP in their stable, one which broadens their software portfolio and lays the groundwork for future entries. Another reason would be to help ensure that the top talent that remains at the studio are fully invested, particularly since they've been working on existing franchises for a decade straight.apana said:
I find it a bit bizarre that you think there's no rationale for such a product.
GrotesqueBeauty said:
I think on paper there are good reasons to create a new IP, but there are also a lot of risks involved. Nintendo probably looks at it from the risk side. To set an example for third parties is not a good reason. Third party support for Wii 2 will depend entirely on whether they can port their games onto it and what kind of relationships Nintendo develops with these companies.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Not that I am disagreeing with you but I think it would be more Nintendo-like to -instead of creating a new IP- using one of their IP characters into a different genre to fill a void in their lineup. i.e StarFox adventures.GrotesqueBeauty said:
Having said that, I wouldn't mind Retro trying to do something like what's described in the document for the next generation Nintendo console (with a new IP). Single player only, of course. The multiplayer stuff didn't sound very appealing to me.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Shikamaru Ninja said:
I would kill for a new Star Tropics made by Retro that was Uncharted like. That would be an absolutely amazing experience/game.
Now I'm sad cause it won't happen.
Chittagong
Gold Member
ITT: dude is about to discover that yes the NDA you signed covers also stuff not released
Mama Robotnik
Member
Bump because I might have found something. Looking through the archives of Andrew Jones' work on conceptart.org, I found this concept image he produced in the same year as the Metroid 1.5 proposal.
The faces remind me of the the multi-faceted AI images he drew for the 1.5 document.
As Andrew was working for Retro at the time he drew this, and nothing like it appears in Metroid Prime 2, I think its as good a guess as any that it may possibly have been from the rejected game.
The faces remind me of the the multi-faceted AI images he drew for the 1.5 document.
As Andrew was working for Retro at the time he drew this, and nothing like it appears in Metroid Prime 2, I think its as good a guess as any that it may possibly have been from the rejected game.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Must suck being the head stuck on the groin-plate.
(Seriously though, this is all pretty awesome concept art you keep finding Mama Robotnik).
(Seriously though, this is all pretty awesome concept art you keep finding Mama Robotnik).
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Retro could turn shit into gold.
While it's interesting to see unreleased ideas. People need to understand that game studios write pitches all the time. A typical studio writes maybe 10:1 pitches to actual games produced. Maybe more?
We used to do that at 5TH Cell, but it's a lot of effort to focus your creative talent on a pitch that is more than likely not going to get picked up. Now-a-days we don't pitch anything anymore, we just make what we want. But back in the day this was a very difficult, time consuming and expensive process (especially if an actual demo was involved).
We used to do that at 5TH Cell, but it's a lot of effort to focus your creative talent on a pitch that is more than likely not going to get picked up. Now-a-days we don't pitch anything anymore, we just make what we want. But back in the day this was a very difficult, time consuming and expensive process (especially if an actual demo was involved).
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
To be honest it sounds overly convoluted.
Alternate universe, time travel, power-up system, fractured AI with personalities and trying to trick a human player will keeping in mind a radical notion of upgrade systems...
That really would not have been easy to balance, let alone recognisable as a metroid game.
And it sure as hell would have taken more than a year to make.
Alternate universe, time travel, power-up system, fractured AI with personalities and trying to trick a human player will keeping in mind a radical notion of upgrade systems...
That really would not have been easy to balance, let alone recognisable as a metroid game.
And it sure as hell would have taken more than a year to make.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Perhaps another find. This image was buried in Andrew Jones extensive portfolio, very much in his Metroid style but not depicting anything in the released games.
Given that they all seem to be robotic or cybernetic constructs, this again may-or-may-not be related to the Metroid 1.5 scenario. The red glow seems to hint at a shared origin.
Given that they all seem to be robotic or cybernetic constructs, this again may-or-may-not be related to the Metroid 1.5 scenario. The red glow seems to hint at a shared origin.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Zeitgeister said:
I like to think Retro could have pulled it off, since even the weakest game of theirs that I have played (MP3) is still an amazing game in itself.
As for distorting the Metroid formula - I'd have no objection to this. Majora's Mask was a heavy distortion of the Zelda formula and quite a departure in some ways from an established and successful plan. With the correct supervision it was amazing.
God I wish this franchise was in Retro's hands again. God knows where its current direction of lunacy will take us.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Oblivion said:
super mario galaxy 2 was underwhelming????
this joke is so layered i'm drowning in it.
_Alkaline_
Member
Mama Robotnik said:Perhaps another find. This image was buried in Andrew Jones extensive portfolio, very much in his Metroid style but not depicting anything in the released games.
Given that they all seem to be robotic or cybernetic constructs, this again may-or-may-not be related to the Metroid 1.5 scenario. The red glow seems to hint at a shared origin.
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr135/mappster84/final_image_andrew_jones.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
The red glow seems reminiscent the Ing to me.
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081030002353/metroid/images/thumb/9/98/Ing_concept2.png/185px-Ing_concept2.png
One of those looks a bit like a Pirate Commando as well.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I really like the gameplay mechanics and overall idea behind this game, but it seems like it'd be a better fit for a new "hardcore" FPS IP that Nintendo surely needs for next-gen.
With the Wii U tablet, they could add the proposed CO-OP mechanic and perhaps use this game as a showcase of the new controller's strength while at the same time drawing in the "mature" crowd with a "mature" shooter.
Edit: Sorry guys, didn't realize this thread was 2011 rather than 2012 :x
With the Wii U tablet, they could add the proposed CO-OP mechanic and perhaps use this game as a showcase of the new controller's strength while at the same time drawing in the "mature" crowd with a "mature" shooter.
Edit: Sorry guys, didn't realize this thread was 2011 rather than 2012 :x
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
What? Nintendo ran with it. The Killer? That's The Deleter.
RumblingRosco
Member
I expected a bump from Izayoi proclaiming his prophecy has come true... I go to bed sorely disappointed.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Necro thread, junior.
IrishNinja
Member
well, glad it got bumped, i somehow missed it around this time last year, heh.
Mama Robotnik - how do you come across this stuff? it's been said, but you've a knack for finding amazing lost games (or sections of released ones).
Mama Robotnik - how do you come across this stuff? it's been said, but you've a knack for finding amazing lost games (or sections of released ones).
Oni Link 666
Member
Explain how you were accidentally reading 500 or so pages back in GAF history to us, I've always wondered how that happens.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I was gonna say I'd seen this before
Search, get really into a thread ... Replies are all in the same current month, different year, make a mistake.
The primary reason old/dormant threads are bumped is that somebody searches for a topic that interests them and replies without having taken due notice of the date attributed to the most recent posts. The secondary reason - not mutually exclusive to the primary - is that old threads are bumped by Juniors in particular as there doesn't exist a more recent thread on the topic and they're unable to create their own.
SoulUnison
Banned
Oh, so the place I've seen this before was...here.
That makes sense, actually.
That makes sense, actually.
It was linked in the Wii U thread I think, I guess he clicked on it there and didn't realize how old it was.
No need to feel sorry it's the first time I've even heard of the project!
And lol at people complaining that it would change the MEtroid feel of the series, like the makers even care about the feeling anyway.
Wut?
mysteriousmage09
Member
It is funny looking back at this and seeing it was canceled but then Other M gets made. Nintendo needs to never doubt Retro.
Also, dat necro!
Also, dat necro!