Tribes of Trusty
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This theory was debunked by the president of the united states himself.
This theory was debunked by the president of the united states himself.
Most important female character in the story.
I think I'm on to something. Zero isn't Cipher.
I'm thinking more along the lines that Zero is to Cipher what Kaz is to Big Boss. By MGS3 they already had a falling over Cipher attempting to sacrifice The Boss to The Sorrow. The Boss went missing because she had to take up The Sorrow's role for Cipher.Maybe by this time, Zero became one, and Cipher became zero. The characters think Cipher is Zero, and only Skullface knows because Paz told him that Zero became one.
It's Major Zero from MGS 3.
I thought it was an organization led by Zero.
Well yeah Cipher is the name of the organization but Cipher also means Zero and sometimes they refer to Zero as Cipher and it's not Cipher the organization but Cipher the person they talk about.
This too. Likely a deliberate reference because the Patriots were using that Cypher to eventually screw Snake's reputation that night.. "Cipher watches all", and to that day they still did. Also makes me wonder if Cipher are basically The Patriots' intelligence organization (use of spies like Paz to gather intel) just like the mechanical Cyphers were for the modern age.
I interpret "Cipher" to be an organization headed by Zero (but also Zero, because he loves himself), and that they weren't around for Operation Snake Eater (an attempt by the CIA to recover the Legacy only for Zero to end up with it after the San Heironymo incident.)
This too. Likely a deliberate reference because the Patriots were using that Cypher to eventually screw Snake's reputation that night.. "Cipher watches all", and to that day they still did. Also makes me wonder if Cipher are basically The Patriots' intelligence organization (use of spies like Paz to gather intel) just like the mechanical Cyphers were for the modern age.
I would delay the game to make it true.
Who they really work for even if they don't know it.What are the <'s supposed to represent?
Who they really work for even if they don't know it.
You kind of need to look at it in the context of the geopolitical situation of the 80s. The Soviet Union starting getting aggressive and then feuds destroyed it. I think "Cipher" is a code name used by Ocelot to impersonate whoever he pretended to work for in GRU during Operation Snake Eater. The KGB probably weren't happy when Ocelot stole back their half of The Legacy and gave it to Zero. "XOF" is Kojima's super villain version of the Red Army Faction. Ocelot'll abandon GRU and cut off serious ties with Russia after he realizes his own bid for power created room for Skull Face to grow. Eventually even his upcoming "Hey, I'm working with your old Major Zero, but don't tell anyone. What? He's definitely not in a coma or an AI I made Strangelove build. He even said he stopped that cloning thing you were so upset about!" benevolent lie will backfire in 1995.That... is a very loose definition of "work for".
I'm not even sure I want to debate the theory on the basis that I'm confused about how it is even supposed to work.
Other way around. Zero approached him with a "business" offer (ArmsTech?) on behalf of "Cipher" if he fed him info on Snake and Paz.Zero works for Kaz??
1974:
PW:
CIA Peace Sentinel < Hot Coldman
vs.
FSLN < MSF < Big Boss < Paz < Kaz < Zero < "Cipher" < Zadornov< KGB Alpha Group
1975:
GZ:
CIA Camp Omega < "Cipher" < XOF < Skull Face< KGB Vympel
1976-1984:
TPP:
Diamond Dogs < Big Bossvs.< Kaz < CIA FOXHOUND < Campbell < "Zero" < Ocelot + EVA
"Cipher"
XOF < Skull Face+ GRU< KGB Vympel< Sergei < "Cipher"
Have you seen the second ending of Peace Walker? She basically says "Hahaha, I've been using you all!" but Kaz then tells Snake that he knew about all about her identity, what she was doing, and was in on it.
Isn't this overthinking it? Unit was called FOX. The unit set up to hunt fox was FOXHOUND.I cannot believe that I never made the connection that
FOX + Diamond Dogs
Fox + Dogs
Another way to say dog is hound.
Foxhound
I cannot believe that I never made the connection that
FOX + Diamond Dogs
Fox + Dogs
Another way to say dog is hound.
Foxhound
Kaz got in bed with them because he wanted to expand MSF by any means necessary, he fucked up by severely underestimating Cipher.Guys just to clear something up, Kaz is a traitor right?
He was working for Cipher behind Big Boss's back and it's all for "business".
Guys just to clear something up, Kaz is a traitor right?
He was working for Cipher behind Big Boss's back and it's all for "business".
Isn't this overthinking it? Unit was called FOX. The unit set up to hunt fox was FOXHOUND.
That just makes it all more perfect, though. It's both a homage to Snake's other units and a metaphor for chasing down Zero.I think you're over analyzing it. FOXHOUND was created to go after FOX.
This. Kaz is essentially doing things behind big boss' back with good intentions. I found this quite funny in PW, because it remarked how much everyone considered snake senile. It practically was like kaz saying: let's do this deal with cypher but nobody tell granpa snake, or we'll never hear the end of it...To a degree, but he did eventually tell Big Boss about his dealings with Cipher at the end of Peace Walker, and broke the business relationship with them when he discovered Cipher's intention of launching a Nuke on the east coast and having MSF take the blame.
I'm really, really surprised that your username wasn't already taken, haha.Oh yea, this thread made me finally register for GAF.
Not quite what he said during that cutscene.To a degree, but he did eventually tell Big Boss about his dealings with Cipher at the end of Peace Walker
In other words, it was a typical Kojima twist.Yeah, Kaz's whole "business partnership" with Cipher never really made sense to me. From a narrative standpoint, I mean. Was it just added for extra shock value? Seemed really unnecessary.
After reading and watching videos on the MGS story, I gave this a shot. The gameplay felt really good, and I am enjoying playing through the side ops missions. I am assuming that when Kaz says "What about him" in the GDC trailer,he is referring to the medic, since he didn't call him by name? I am still slightly confused with the story so far, but I can't wait until the phantom pain!
Kojima said that was himself lol. He was getting meta asking if he as a game designer was ok.
Not quite what he said during that cutscene.
Didn't Kojima actually meant that the third guy was himself, as his in game avatar Hideo?, the guy that you recruit in PW and help in GZ?
Didn't Kojima actually meant that the third guy was himself, as his in game avatar Hideo?, the guy that you recruit in PW and help in GZ?
On Kaz being a traitor, while he did say to Big Boss he knew who Paz and Zadornov were the entire time, he didn't really say where he got the info from, right?
Another question, when did Snake learn about the existence of the group called Cipher? I feel like I've known it the entire time, but I haven't been able to put a finger on the exact moment they mentioned them. Was it Paz who said "Cipher wants this to be done!" or something?
On Kaz being a traitor, while he did say to Big Boss he knew who Paz and Zadornov were the entire time, he didn't really say where he got the info from, right?
Juan29.zapata said:Another question, when did Snake learn about the existence of the group called Cipher? I feel like I've known it the entire time, but I haven't been able to put a finger on the exact moment they mentioned them. Was it Paz who said "Cipher wants this to be done!" or something?
Aleph said:I too would like to know this. And also, what happened with Les Enfants Terribles... the project was carried out before GZ and PW, but I feel like it is never mentioned or given enough importance.
Knowing about Cipher / working with Cipher... Sounds like two entirely different things to me.He says that Paz was connected to both Cipher and, along with Zadornov, the Russians, he then goes on to say MSF would never have gotten as big if it weren't for 'them'. I think it's safe to say he's admitting doing business with Cipher at that point.
It's not like you need to cut the arm of a comatose man to get some DNA. ^^;;I'm guessing Kojima will retcon it by saying the 1972 experiment was a failure, hence why the project was ultimately abandoned, and after Big Boss goes into his coma in MGSV, that's when the successful cloning project takes place. It could explain why his arm is missing, as it would have been prime material to work with when trying to clone his genes.
i don't think we'll be seeing a retcon. i see the 'abandoned' part of that addition to the timeline as a more literal abandon, with cipher/the patriots moving in other directions rather than putting all their eggs in one basket with the snake siblings.Yet at the end of Ground Zeroes we discover that "the Les Enfants Terribles Project is abandoned"
I'm guessing Kojima will retcon it by saying the 1972 experiment was a failure, hence why the project was ultimately abandoned, and after Big Boss goes into his coma in MGSV, that's when the successful cloning project takes place. It could explain why his arm is missing, as it would have been prime material to work with when trying to clone his genes.