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[Betty]

Knowing about Cipher / working with Cipher... Sounds like two entirely different things to me.

But he says that thanks to them specifically MSF was able to grow as big as it did, that implies he and Cipher had dealings in some way.

It's not like you need to cut the arm of a comatose man to get some DNA. ^^;;
Also, the coma thing was a mistranslation in the English version of Metal Gear Solid.
Also also, that would mean Eli either 1) isn't Liquid after all, or 2) is 8.

True about not absolutely needing the left arm, I just thought it was a good explanation for why it was gone.

As for Eli, maybe due to the advanced aging he looks older for his age, or maybe it isn't Liquid.... or maybe I'm wrong and the LET project did take place in 1972 and this whole theory is bupkiss.

regarding the arm, i've got a theory. sorry if this has been brought up by someone else.

big boss does not lose the arm in the crash. it doesn't even get damaged.

hear me out. instead, it's amputated purposefully while big boss is in the coma by... maybe XOF (which might clash with XOF coming for him 9 years later... i'll explain in a moment). there's a strong theme of mutilation by XOF in GZ, with paz having organs removed, chico and the hole in his chest, the "eye" and the "finger" self mutilating in the side-ops mission. taking big boss' arm plays into that. it also acts as an insurance policy for if he ever wakes from the coma. we already see how much body weight he drops, missing an arm too would make him easy pickings (this is why XOF come for him 9 years later. what's the point in killing big boss while he's in a coma when they can play the waiting game and kill him when he's terrified, powerless, and mutilated).

Ehh, if they did that I don't see why they wouldn't take one of his legs too just to make sure he'd be useless, or his other eye for that matter, or just kill him straight up if they were worried about him coming after them should he awaken.

 

[Spaghetti]

Ehh, if they did that I don't see why they wouldn't take one of his legs too just to make sure he'd be useless, or his other eye for that matter, or just kill him straight up if they were worried about him coming after them should he awaken.

or maybe just to continue the theme of sexual violence skullface has, farewell his sausage

i dunno. it's just a theory and it's got holes because really we've got no idea or context about what happens after ground zeroes ends besides the basics of losing an arm and going into a coma. sounds suitably dark though.

 

[Erigu]

But he says that thanks to them specifically MSF was able to grow as big as it did, that implies he and Cipher had dealings in some way.

Not really? Galvez and Paz hired Big Boss for that Peace Walker thing, and that's how MSF grew like it did. This all could simply mean (as far as Big Boss is concerned) that Kaz knew that it was going to be a big job/opportunity from the very beginning.
(note that we're discussing something that may not even be true anymore anyway, as Kaz now talks about having been completely oblivious regarding Paz... Kojima...)

As for Eli, maybe due to the advanced aging he looks older for his age

That's not how it worked for Solid Snake, at the very least, or he would have known about this accelerated aging since his childhood instead of learning about it sometime after the events of Metal Gear Solid...

or maybe I'm wrong and the LET project did take place in 1972 and this whole theory is bupkiss.

Kaz talked about the clones already being born in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker, and I doubt Kojima would already retcon that, but then again, maybe I'm "underestimating" him....

 

[Betty]

Not really? Galvez and Paz hired Big Boss for that Peace Walker thing, and that's how MSF grew like it did. This all could simply mean (as far as Big Boss is concerned) that Kaz knew that it was going to be a big job/opportunity from the very beginning.

Sure, but Kaz was the one who brought them to Colombia in the first place, knowing full well who was financing both Galvez and Paz, meaning the Russians and Cipher, in the first place. So yes, you're right that he knew it was going to be a big opportunity, but it's also right that the funds and resources they received came from dealing with these groups.

That's not how it worked for Solid Snake, at the very least, or he would have known about this accelerated aging since his childhood instead of learning about it sometime after the events of Metal Gear Solid...

That's a good point and puts a damn big hole in my theory.

Kaz talked about the clones already being born in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker, and I doubt Kojima would already retcon that, but then again, maybe I'm "underestimating" him....

Sure, but maybe those clones end up being failures and die for whatever reason, and that's why LET is eventually abandoned, only to be restarted again when they gain greater access to Big Boss's DNA as he lays in his 9 year coma and succeed in creating Solid, Liquid & Solidus.

I'm just guessing

Spoiler

badly

here.

or maybe just to continue the theme of sexual violence skullface has, farewell his sausage

Now the revenge theme is starting to make sense!

From everything I read, BB and MSF just seem like explicit villains with the whole asshole mercenary "we don't give a shit if you are in the right if you give us money" routine. At best, he cares about the well-being of other soldiers in his group.

That's pretty much it at this point, he even states at one point that he and his army may all be headed straight for hell so he's not oblivious to how his actions are impacting the world. Big Boss and his army are what many PMC's are today basically.

It's also true however that he's helped avert catastrophe's many times over and does genuinely care for his soldiers and comrades in arms, and compared to the other less savory characters in the series, he's nowhere near evil... yet.

 

[Jhn]

As someone whose only foray into the series has been the original MGS about a thousand years ago, and that has been trying to catch up on the backstory to play GZ and TPP, can you guys tell me why I should empathize with BB during the events of these games?

From everything I read, BB and MSF just seem like explicit villains with the whole asshole mercenary "we don't give a shit if you are in the right if you give us money" routine. At best, he cares about the well-being of other soldiers in his group.

And before you tell me to just play the other games, I'm sorry, but I have neither the time nor the motivation to plow through something as massive as the entire MGS series purely as a primer for another game. With that in mind, I understand if you don't want to try to explain it to me, but it would certainly be helpful.

 

[Ishida]

As someone whose only foray into the series has been the original MGS about a thousand years ago, and that has been trying to catch up on the backstory to play GZ and TPP, can you guys tell me why I should empathize with BB during the events of these games?

From everything I read, BB and MSF just seem like explicit villains with the whole asshole mercenary "we don't give a shit if you are in the right if you give us money" routine. At best, he cares about the well-being of other soldiers in his group.

And before you tell me to just play the other games, I'm sorry, but I have neither the time nor the motivation to plow through something as massive as the entire MGS series purely as a primer for another game. With that in mind, I understand if you don't want to try to explain it to me, but it would certainly be helpful.

I don't think these new games are supposed to make us feel more empathic to Big Boss. I believe it's something like the Star Wars prequels, you get to see WHY he is doing much of his evil stuff, what caused him to cross the line, but at the end of the day he's still a morally corrupt jackass. At least that's how I see him.

His speech on Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake is just plain disturbing.

Big Boss says it clear in Metal Gear Solid 4. He knows he was wrong. He knows he was "already dead" as human being when he killed The Boss, and he praises Solid Snake as the "better man" that "may have not commited the same mistakes as he did".

 

[foxtrot3d]

As someone whose only foray into the series has been the original MGS about a thousand years ago, and that has been trying to catch up on the backstory to play GZ and TPP, can you guys tell me why I should empathize with BB during the events of these games?

From everything I read, BB and MSF just seem like explicit villains with the whole asshole mercenary "we don't give a shit if you are in the right if you give us money" routine. At best, he cares about the well-being of other soldiers in his group.

And before you tell me to just play the other games, I'm sorry, but I have neither the time nor the motivation to plow through something as massive as the entire MGS series purely as a primer for another game. With that in mind, I understand if you don't want to try to explain it to me, but it would certainly be helpful.

You don't need to play the entire catalog of MGS games you only need to play MGS3. If Kojima never made any other game about Big Boss besides MGS3 nobody would question why he turned evil or why we would be sympathetic. Just play MGS3 and you'll understand everything concerning BB. I mean all these other games starring him are just icing on the cake that further expand upon his journey but aren't exactly "necessary" to understand him.

 

[Dunk#7]

Can somebody PLEASE answer one question for me?

What exactly carries over to The Phantom Pain? Captured troops from full game, or iDroid Mother Base?

I have been trying to build up troops on the iDroid app, but it is repetitive and boring. Don't want to continue unless it helps TPP.

 

[Betty]

Can somebody PLEASE answer one question for me?

What exactly carries over to The Phantom Pain? Captured troops from full game, or iDroid Mother Base?

I have been trying to build up troops on the iDroid app, but it is repetitive and boring. Don't want to continue unless it helps TPP.

For Ground Zeroes, aside from the DLC, I heard it was just POW's and VIP's that can be carried over to Phantom Pain.

I haven't heard anything about the Mother Base App stats or whatever carrying over to Phantom Pain in any way, maybe someone else knows.

 

[Ghost King]

As someone whose only foray into the series has been the original MGS about a thousand years ago, and that has been trying to catch up on the backstory to play GZ and TPP, can you guys tell me why I should empathize with BB during the events of these games?

From everything I read, BB and MSF just seem like explicit villains with the whole asshole mercenary "we don't give a shit if you are in the right if you give us money" routine. At best, he cares about the well-being of other soldiers in his group.

And before you tell me to just play the other games, I'm sorry, but I have neither the time nor the motivation to plow through something as massive as the entire MGS series purely as a primer for another game. With that in mind, I understand if you don't want to try to explain it to me, but it would certainly be helpful.

Well if you have the time you should see the youtube videos of the saga as a "movie" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zndcY57Tijo to understand GZ and TPP you need to see at least MGS 3 and Peace Walker (Portable Ops too, but not everything that happens is cannon acording to Kojima). Trying to explain how to emphatize is not going to make you do it, so try and see those videos so yourself know if you should emphatize or not. Im sorry for not explaining more, hope that the video is helpful to you.

 

[Jhn]

...

...

...

...

Ok, thanks guys.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Ok, thanks guys.

No problem, like I said just play MGS3 and if you do then you get to witness what is probably the greatest ending to any video game.

 

[immortal-joe]

We'll know if Eli is Liquid from dem anger issues.

 

[~~Hasan~~]

was it me or was this game hard even on easy ?

i am not used to Metal Gear being this hard. i died many times around the time while i was saving the girl. is the tank even expoldable ? i tried to put C4 but it didn't explode which i found very lame.

over all. i kinda like the old Metal Gear 1 /2 games

 

[Betty]

was it me or was this game hard even on easy ?

i am not used to Metal Gear being this hard. i died many times around the time while i was saving the girl. is the tank even expoldable ? i tried to put C4 but it didn't explode which i found very lame.

over all. i kinda like the old Metal Gear 1 /2 games

The tank is very explodable, enough C4 should do it but there's also a rocket launcher in one of the ammo huts too.

It's interesting that you think it's too hard, a fair number of folk in here say it's too easy even on hard! They're already finding ways to handicap themselves to make it even more challenging.

 

[dc89]

Cypher no Cyph-ing.

 

[The Cartographer]

I just hope that TPP will have Normal Liquid, Big Boss Extreme, European Extreme etc.

 

[beastmode]

Cipher = Ocelot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_and_Mitchell_defection

Ocelot uses the alias Zero as an homage to Big Boss' old commander.

 

[strobogo]

Cipher = Ocelot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_and_Mitchell_defection

Ocelot uses the alias Zero as an homage to Big Boss' old commander.

All I really got from the second link was that "god damn queers stealin' our secrets!" was a valid response to anything in the 50s.

 

[beastmode]

All I really got from the second link was that "god damn queers stealin' our secrets!" was a valid response to anything in the 50s.

That second link is about the real ADAM and EVA defectors. Male EVA is

Spoiler

Kaz.

 

[Dunk#7]

For Ground Zeroes, aside from the DLC, I heard it was just POW's and VIP's that can be carried over to Phantom Pain.

I haven't heard anything about the Mother Base App stats or whatever carrying over to Phantom Pain in any way, maybe someone else knows.

Thank you for the information. I just wish we could get this officially cleared up so that I know how to build for TPP.

I want to hit the ground running when it comes out.

 

[Alienous]

wow, much Satan

very devil

wow

 

[Easy_D]

What's up with Fire Volgin anyway? Lost twin?

 

[Ishida]

What's up with Fire Volgin anyway? Lost twin?

Mantis' illusions.

 

[Easy_D]

Mantis' illusions.

Man Psycho Mantis really let himself go, all he could do in MGS was make the portraits laugh at you and rumble your controller.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

So this just occurred to me...

What are the odds of there being two Big Boss's in TPP because somebody else is wearing

Spoiler

his arm

?

 

[Alienous]

Man Psycho Mantis really let himself go, all he could do in MGS was make the portraits laugh at you and rumble your controller.

Lol.

Yeah, wow. He certainly moved a long way away from "helicopter swallowing whale summoner".

"YOU LIKE GIRLS". No shit.

 

[Koyuga]

What's up with Fire Volgin anyway? Lost twin?

The things poking out of his head makes me think of Python more than Volign, but there is no way Kojima would reference a character from PO.

 

[The Cartographer]

So this just occurred to me...

What are the odds of there being two Big Boss's in TPP because somebody else his wearing

Spoiler

is arm

?

But how?

You need nanomachines and psychotherapy for that.

 

[Ishida]

But how?

You need nanomachines and psychotherapy for that.

Wrong. Ocelot was possesed in MGS2 and he didn't need nanomachines or psychotherapy.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

We'll know if Eli is Liquid from dem anger issues.

Oh man, this is Lets Kill Metal Gear, right?

Do you have a link for this?

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

But how?

You need nanomachines and psychotherapy for that.

Kojima loves to make everything mimic everything else. It seems to perfect an opportunity to not do a "whooooo he reattached the arm like that other thing whooooo".

 

[Betty]

Lol.

Yeah, wow. He certainly moved a long way away from "helicopter swallowing whale summoner".

"YOU LIKE GIRLS". No shit.

Pretty sure the line is "you don't like girls?"

 

[MacNille]

The things poking out of his head makes me think of Python more than Volign, but there is no way Kojima would reference a character from PO.

I thought of Python as well. PO need more love .

 

[The Cartographer]

Wrong. Ocelot was possesed in MGS2 and he didn't need nanomachines or psychotherapy.

It's time for you to accept the existence of the Naked Sin.

 

[Alienous]

Pretty sure the line is "you don't like girls?"

I... I know. I edited it.

Snake does like girls right?

Right?

Come to think of it...

 

[Ishida]

It's time for you to accept the existence of the Naked Sin.

...What...?

 

[The Cartographer]

...What...?

Do you actually believe that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid?

 

[Alienous]

Canonically Ocelot is possesed during MGS2, but following those events he removes Liquid's arm and begins psychotherapy to maintain the persona (and fool the Patriots).

 

[Ishida]

Do you actually believe that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid?

Only during MGS2, I believe. After that he got rid of Liquid's arm and got a bionic arm.

Canonically Ocelot is possed during MGS2, but following those events he removes Liquid's arm and begins psychotherapy to maintain the persona (and fool the Patriots).

This. Supposedly the spiritual possesion was too unstable and would go beyond Ocelot's plan. Besides it would only appear when Solid Snake was around.

 

[MacNille]

Do you actually believe that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid?

He was... For a time. I think. It is really confusing if he was or not.

 

[KittenMaster]

Only during MGS2, I believe. After that he got rid of Liquid's arm and got a bionic arm.

Makes sense I suppose (could use a line of dialogue from the game to support it though, not as well versed in MGS4 as the others). Naked Sin Big Boss made it sound like that was what Ocelot was doing that the whole time.

 

[The Cartographer]

Canonically Ocelot is possed during MGS2, but following those events he removes Liquid's arm and begins psychotherapy to maintain the persona (and fool the Patriots).

Only during MGS2, I believe. After that he got rid of Liquid's arm and got a bionic arm.

He was... For a time. I think. It is really confusing if he was or not.

Oh...wait, for real?

That's some crazy supernatural bullshit here.

 

[AuthenticM]

Do you actually believe that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid?

He was, during MGS2.

 

[Ishida]

This was stated on the database, I believe.

 

[Betty]

I... I know. I edited it.

Snake does like girls right?

Right?

Come to think of it...

Thankfully Metal Gear Awesome already answered this

 

[Alienous]

Do you actually believe that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid?

The MGS2 Digital Comic, dubbed in 2013 (and featuring Hayter's last performance as Snake) points the blame finger at Ocelot's father. It kind of makes sense.

 

[Ishida]

The MGS2 Digital Comic, dubbed in 2013 (and featuring Hayter's last performance as Snake) points the blame finger at Ocelot's father. It kind of makes sense.

I always felt that the whole point of making The Sorrow a medium, and Ocelot's father, was just to justify the craziness behind the possesion.

 

[The Cartographer]

So Screaming Mantis was really possessed by Psycho Mantis in MGS4?

That's hilarious.

 

[Alienous]

I always felt that the whole point of making The Sorrow a medium, and Ocelot's father, was just to justify the craziness behind the possesion.

Actually, that's interesting.

Now I'm thinking that Ocelot really is working with Psycho Mantis to rescue Big Boss in TPP. Like, maybe Ocelot is his handler?