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MGSV: Ground Zeroes - Spoilers Thread - #TeamBowie

I

Ishida

Banned
The Cartographer said:
So Screaming Mantis was really possessed by Psycho Mantis in MGS4?

That's hilarious.
Click to expand...

Yes she was. Part of her insanity was due to her childhood trauma, drugs and nanomachines. But apparently her psychic powers came from Mantis.

Alienous said:
Actually, that's interesting.

Now I'm thinking that Ocelot really is working with Psycho Mantis to rescue Big Boss in TPP. Like, maybe Ocelot is his handler?
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but that would retcon Mantis' dying words on MGS, about that being the very first time he used his powers to truly help someone. I think young Mantis is being forced or probably hired to help instead of doing it of his own will.
 
A

Alienous

Member
Ishida said:
Perhaps, but that would retcon Mantis' dying words on MGS, about that being the very first time he used his powers to truly help someone. I think young Mantis is being forced or probably hired to help instead of doing it of his own will.
Click to expand...

Yeah. He knocks Snake on his ass with an explosion. And, seemingly, sends a fire soldier on a fire horse to chase Snake and Ocelot. He might be a directed loose cannon.

But it seems he saves Snake when the XOF soldier is about to execute him. He doesn't kill Snake when he leaves the upturned Ambulance, and let's him get to Ocelot. And he summons a whale to eat an XOF helicopter.

It's weird.
 
I

Ishida

Banned
Alienous said:
Yeah. He knocks Snake on his ass with an explosion. And, seemingly, sends a fire soldier on a fire horse to chase Snake and Ocelot.

But it seems he saves Snake when the XOF soldier is about to execute him. He doesn't kill Snake when he leaves the upturned Ambulance, and let's him get to Ocelot. And he summons a whale to eat an XOF helicopter.

It's weird.
Click to expand...

Regardless of the explanation, I'm eager to see more of Mantis on TPP. It seems that game will have several references to the FOXHOUND unit. We have a female sniper with lots of cleavage, a Native American man, Ocelot, Mantis, a young Liquid....
 
A

atr0cious

Member
Ishida said:
Regardless of the explanation, I'm eager to see more of Mantis on TPP. It seems that game will have several references to the FOXHOUND unit. We have a female sniper with lots of cleavage, a Native American man, Ocelot, Mantis, a young Liquid....
Click to expand...

I cannot wait for Quiet's secret to get out. The sheets that will burn because of it, will be the eventual tipping point for Global Warming.
 
A

Alienous

Member
Ishida said:
Regardless of the explanation, I'm eager to see more of Mantis on TPP. It seems that game will have several references to the FOXHOUND unit. We have a female sniper with lots of cleavage, a Native American man, Ocelot, Mantis, a young Liquid....
Click to expand...

Here's my prevailing theory:

The Diamond Dogs logo features a Rhodesian Ridgeback. This is the Rhodesian equivalent of the American Foxhound, which is a very similar dog.

Snake is recuperated in a Cipher hospital, with UK flags. Skull Face discovers that Snake is alive, and where he is. Snake is brought out of a (medically induced?) 9 year coma. Cipher sends Ocelot, a Cipher agent, and Mantis for the rescue. Bla bla.

Snake uses his FOXHOUND resources to set up an African division of the unit, Diamond Dogs. He discovers Miller's location, and goes to rescue him.

Over the course of the game you rescue several key child soldiers, who form MGS1's FOXHOUND (and, starting with Diamond Dogs, they become a hidden, secretive FOXHOUND unit). Diamond Dogs grows into Outer Heaven, bla bla.
 
D

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Alienous said:
The MGS2 Digital Comic, dubbed in 2013 (and featuring Hayter's last performance as Snake) points the blame finger at Ocelot's father. It kind of makes sense.
Click to expand...

I hadn't heard it before, but I just went to Youtube to check David Hayter's voice. It's so much better than in Peace Walker....
 
I

Ishida

Banned
Alienous said:
Here's my prevailing theory:

The Diamond Dogs logo features a Rhodesian Ridgeback. This is the Rhodesian equivalent of the American Foxhound, which is a very similar dog.

Snake is recuperated in a Cipher hospital, with UK flags. Skull Face discovers that Snake is alive, and where he is. Snake is brought out of a (medically induced?) 9 year coma. Cipher sends Ocelot, a Cipher agent, and Mantis for the rescue. Bla bla.

Snake uses his FOXHOUND resources to set up an African division of the unit, Diamond Dogs. He discovers Miller's location, and goes to rescue him.

Over the course of the game you rescue several key child soldiers, who form MGS1's FOXHOUND (and, starting with Diamond Dogs, they become a hidden, secretive FOXHOUND unit). Diamond Dogs grows into Outer Heaven, bla bla.
Click to expand...

That's actually a fantastic theory. Campbell even mentions that the main FOXHOUND members were "Big Boss' private guard", if I remember correctly.

Doctor_Thomas said:
I hadn't heard it before, but I just went to Youtube to check David Hayter's voice. It's so much better than in Peace Walker....
Click to expand...

Any 'issues' with Hayter's acting can be traced to the voice acting director. I firmly believe that it was Kris Zimmerman the one who kept pushing Hayter into a more rough, cartoony voice. "Hey David, can you please exaggerate this line a little bit more?". Something like that.
 
Z

ZombieFred

Unconfirmed Member
Woot, finally did my 100% obtain but I will admit to having to cheat with the Quiz on hard mode because fucking doing that several times when you get a question wrong! Very satisfied with the whole package overall. Feels good to see that fully done :)
 
R

Rojo

Member
Alienous said:
Here's my prevailing theory:

The Diamond Dogs logo features a Rhodesian Ridgeback. This is the Rhodesian equivalent of the American Foxhound, which is a very similar dog.

Snake is recuperated in a Cipher hospital, with UK flags. Skull Face discovers that Snake is alive, and where he is. Snake is brought out of a (medically induced?) 9 year coma. Cipher sends Ocelot, a Cipher agent, and Mantis for the rescue. Bla bla.

Snake uses his FOXHOUND resources to set up an African division of the unit, Diamond Dogs. He discovers Miller's location, and goes to rescue him.

Over the course of the game you rescue several key child soldiers, who form MGS1's FOXHOUND (and, starting with Diamond Dogs, they become a hidden, secretive FOXHOUND unit). Diamond Dogs grows into Outer Heaven, bla bla.
Click to expand...

I dont think skull face cares about Big Boss his target is zero. In the E3 trailer you have him getting out of a chopper and his group is aiming their guns at someone and he tells them to stand down. I think he meets up with big boss to team up efforts in order to take down zero.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
tokyostomp said:
So I'm newish to MGS, How do I get rid of the tranq pistol and get a real one instead?

Does no one carry a sidearm?
Click to expand...
They do. If you grab a guy, he drops his rifle. If you just let him go, he will grab his pistol and you can disarm him again. There's a handgun somewhere on the base as well to be found. No suppressors for them in this, though.
 
D

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Alienous said:
He's written better, too. Much more like MGS1 Snake.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he even has a few sarcastic lines thrown in.


Ishida said:
Any 'issues' with Hayter's acting can be traced to the voice acting director. I firmly believe that it was Kris Zimmerman the one who kept pushing Hayter into a more rough, cartoony voice. "Hey David, can you please exaggerate this line a little bit more?". Something like that.
Click to expand...

I have always blamed the voice director, any time I have heard Hayter doing the voice at conventions or this, he's always sounded fine.

atr0cious said:
Otacon however sounds terrible. Wow. He sounds like he doesn't even care in it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's like the laziest piece of voice acting in the entire series.
 
T

tokyostomp

Banned
Can someone explain this game to me?

I just don't get it. I'm doing the Renegade Side Ops mission and am finding it impossible.
I get spotted every which way.
I silent take out the first guy and scout the area with my binoculars. I get the enemy patrol lines down and take out a few guys with CQC. They tend to wake up fairly quickly though.

Is there a way to put them down for good once they are knocked out that does not involve putting a bullet in the back of their head as it wastes my precious suppressor.

Can I not just stop an enemy's neck while he is lying there unconscious?

Maybe I'm going about it the wrong way, I tend to try to eliminate every single soldier I come across.

I've tried using the tranquilizer pistol to put them to sleep and just leave them but for whatever reason a direct headshot does not instantly put them to sleep.

My average shot distance is from 5-7 feet away. I tranquilize them (headshot) and once they are hit they immediately go into alert mode.


I feel as if I am playing correctly but apparently not.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
You aren't hitting them in the head, then. It's instant ko if you do. If you want to make sure they don't get up without making noise, sneak up behind them and hold L2. Then tell then to lie down. They won't get back up. Sounds like you just need to take your time and get familiar with everything.
 
B

beastmode

Member
One thing that might be neat is if they explain the Mother Base you bring Kaz to as being one of a number of Big Shells around the world set up in the 9 years. 1 Big Shell per open world.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
tokyostomp said:
Can someone explain this game to me?

I just don't get it. I'm doing the Renegade Side Ops mission and am finding it impossible.
I get spotted every which way.
I silent take out the first guy and scout the area with my binoculars. I get the enemy patrol lines down and take out a few guys with CQC. They tend to wake up fairly quickly though.

Is there a way to put them down for good once they are knocked out that does not involve putting a bullet in the back of their head as it wastes my precious suppressor.

Can I not just stop an enemy's neck while he is lying there unconscious?

Maybe I'm going about it the wrong way, I tend to try to eliminate every single soldier I come across.

I've tried using the tranquilizer pistol to put them to sleep and just leave them but for whatever reason a direct headshot does not instantly put them to sleep.

My average shot distance is from 5-7 feet away. I tranquilize them (headshot) and once they are hit they immediately go into alert mode.


I feel as if I am playing correctly but apparently not.
Click to expand...


I am confused as to how you think you're headshotting them when you're not.

You don't have to take out all the guards and you can't just run up to them. Sneak behind them and either hold them up with your weapon or grab them. Either put them to sleep or tell them to get down.

Headshots are pretty obvious, you even hear a nice little sound effect letting you know you got one.
 
D

Dunk#7

Member
Could it be possible that TPP takes place over a longer span of time, and the latter portions overlap chronologically with events from the original MG (MSX/NES)?

What if you are playing Big Boss while Solid Snake kills your double? Is this scenario possible?
 
B

bishopcruz

Member
nbnt said:
Now this, this is interesting..
Click to expand...

My issue with this that Big Boss is played by the same actor as alwats in the Japanese Ground Zeroes. I'm getting kind of tired of people looking for more in a casting change and ignoring the Japanese side of the equation.

I mean, I suppose there could be an argument for playing as someone else in TPP, if you REALLY stretch, but in GZ? It would make no sense at all for you to be anyone BUT Big Boss. Unless of course the main character in Peace Walker wasn't him either. And that would just be silly.

CambriaRising said:
Oh snap, that line is a dead ringer for what Ocelot says to Solid Snake in MGS1.
Click to expand...

Now THAT could be something. Ocelot is working with Skull Face? That makes perfect sense.
 
M

MacNille

Banned
So which villian do you find to be the best one in the series then?
I'm having at tie between Volgin:
Volgin.jpg
Because of his assholeness and evilness.

and Gene:
Render-Gene.jpg


MG PO was the first Metal Gear that I played and I found Gene to be a really good villain. The VA of Steve Blum was excellent and made him a villain with a great vision.
 
S

SupaDupaDiva

Banned
Holy shit man, u know what struck me? Déjà Vu and Jamais vu missions! i've looked up definitions of that phenomenons, just listen to them.
Déjà vu is the phenomenon of having the strong sensation that an event or experience currently being experienced has been experienced in the past, whether it has actually happened or not.
Jamais vu is the phenomenon of experiencing a situation that one recognizes in some fashion, but that nonetheless seems very unfamiliar. Jamais vu is most commonly experienced when a person momentarily does not recognise a word, person, or place that he or she already knows. Like what we all are experiencing with the absence of David Hayter, daaaamn.

this all looks like pretty damn clue for Big Boss Double theories.
 
K

KittenMaster

Member
S

ShinoguTakeruKoeru

Member
SupaDupaDiva said:
Holy shit man, u know what struck me? Déjà Vu and Jamais vu missions! i've looked up definitions of that phenomenons, just listen to them. Déjà vu is the phenomenon of having the strong sensation that an event or experience currently being experienced has been experienced in the past, whether it has actually happened or not. Jamais vu is the phenomenon of experiencing a situation that one recognizes in some fashion, but that nonetheless seems very unfamiliar. Jamais vu is most commonly experienced when a person momentarily does not recognise a word, person, or place that he or she already knows. Like what we all are experiencing with the absence of David Hayter, daaaamn

this all looks like pretty damn clue for Big Boss Double theories.
Click to expand...

I think whoever wrote this at TVTropes got it right:

"Deja Vu" means something looks familiar even though you've never seen it before, and it's the title of the extra mission where the player must re-enact scenes from the original MGS in Camp Omega. There's no way Big Boss has ever been to Shadow Moses Island, so there's no way the stuff should look familiar to him, but it's familiar to us, the players.
"Jamais Vu," on the other hand, means something familiar seeming unfamiliar to you as if something was wrong with it. The mission is about detecting and eliminating body snatchers, who are close-but-not-perfect imitations of the real people they've snatched. "They look the same, but they're not!" is a common cry from people in body snatcher movies.
Click to expand...
 
Y

Yaser Tech

Member
SupaDupaDiva said:
PythonSelkan uploaded new video, and they noticed some really interesting stuff in GZ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZJmyu1rS9E&feature=player_detailpage#t=1605
i've really felt when i was rescuing that guy that i've heard that phrase somewhere before, u can say Déjà Vu :D
Click to expand...

Very interesting.

Not that I think about it, Ishmael in TPP trailer was also voiced by Keifer Sutherland. Does this add to the theory? Also, YongYea in his video that was posted a couple of days ago, provided some evidence that the medic (which he also concluded is Ashmael) is a pigment of Big Boss's imagination. So many stuff... oh Kojima.
 
I

Ishida

Banned
Even though I'm a huge fan of Hayter, and don't really like Kiefer in the role, I'm pretty sure and have accepted completely the fact that Hayter is not coming back. I don't think he will be in the game at all.

I believe the guy we are playing as during Ground Zeroes AND Phantom Pain is the REAL Big Boss. No doubles, no Hayter. In the end, I'm sure the explanation for this will be simpler than what fans believe.

That line of dialogue is very interesting, though....
 
B

bishopcruz

Member
Man, the Big Boss double would be the worst possible way for this story to go. I can see it now:

It wasn't ACTUALLY Big Boss in Metal Gear, it was his double, the real heroic guy was off doing... things.

It wasn't ACTUALLY Big Boss in Solid Snake, it was a Snatcher, and that was the one training war orphans and turning them into killing machines. Regular Big Boss was living it up in Tahiti. Or no wait, his other double was in Tahiti, Big Boss was actually in cryo-sleep the whole time.

It wasn't ACTUALLY Big Boss in MGS 3, that was a nanomachine VR mission that Raiden undertook just before Sons of Liberty.

and of course:

It wasn't ACTUALLY Big Boss in MGS4. That was a hologram, and that wasn't Zero in the Wheelchair either. The REAL Big Boss and Zero are retired and living together in an apartment on the upper east side.

Ishida said:
Even though I'm a huge fan of Hayter, and don't really like Kiefer in the role, I'm pretty sure and have accepted completely the fact that Hayter is not coming back. I don't think he will be in the game at all.

I believe the guy we are playing as during Ground Zeroes AND Phantom Pain is the REAL Big Boss. No doubles, no Hayter. In the end, I'm sure the explanation for this will be simpler than what fans believe.

That line of dialogue is very interesting, though....
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. The whole point of watching Big Boss' descent into darkness would pretty much be pointless without actually PLAYING as Big Boss. And again, in order for the double theory in Ground Zeroes to make any sense at all you would have to have been playing as that double since at least Peace Walker.

Though I would suppose that might explain why in PW Big Boss was an idiot who worshiped Che Guevara and believed in Santa Claus.
 
R

RangerBAD

Member
Ishida said:
Even though I'm a huge fan of Hayter, and don't really like Kiefer in the role, I'm pretty sure and have accepted completely the fact that Hayter is not coming back. I don't think he will be in the game at all.

I believe the guy we are playing as during Ground Zeroes AND Phantom Pain is the REAL Big Boss. No doubles, no Hayter. In the end, I'm sure the explanation for this will be simpler than what fans believe.

That line of dialogue is very interesting, though....
Click to expand...

Yeah, come on, guys. Although I think they'd have to use him if a 20-something Solid Snake make an appearance in this game or future game (MG1 remake).
 
I

Ishida

Banned
CambriaRising said:
Oh snap, that line is a dead ringer for what Ocelot says to Solid Snake in MGS1.
Click to expand...

Mmmhh.. I don't remember Ocelot mentioning such a thing to Solid Snake, but I may be wrong.

RangerBAD said:
Yeah, come on, guys. Although I think they'd have to use him if a 20-something Solid Snake make an appearance in this game or future game (MG1 remake).
Click to expand...

As much as I would LOVE to see Hayter coming back for a remake/sequel, somehow I believe his leaving of the franchise was because of something very big. I firmly believe two things:

1) Kojima wanted a big name celebrity to star on a Metal Gear game, as it would attract more attention, and because of his obsession with Hollywood.

2) There was a problem with Hayter. Not because of his acting performance. Maybe Hayter demanded more money? Perhaps he became a diva? I don't know, but I believe something went wrong with him and Kojima, and this gave Kojima the perfect excuse to replace him with a big star.

For a while I tried to believe that Hayter would be back as a young Solid Snake at the end of TPP, but somehow I just lost all hope. I don't like Kiefer's performance, but I just dealt with it and accept it. Throwing a tantrum or crazy theories will not help bringing Hayter back.
 
T

Tookay

Member
The main problem with the double theory is that it leads to the question of what Big Boss was doing in the meantime.

It doesn't really fill any gaps, it just creates new ones.

I feel like Kojima's in the stage of his life and Metal Gear's mythology where he's probably more concerned with tying up loose ends than perpetually spinning this yarn.

He's not going to be making games forever. And considering how long each one seems to take, he's only got a couple of ones left in him before he has to start passing the torch/reboot.
 
R

Rojo

Member
bishopcruz said:
My issue with this that Big Boss is played by the same actor as alwats in the Japanese Ground Zeroes. I'm getting kind of tired of people looking for more in a casting change and ignoring the Japanese side of the equation.

I mean, I suppose there could be an argument for playing as someone else in TPP, if you REALLY stretch, but in GZ? It would make no sense at all for you to be anyone BUT Big Boss. Unless of course the main character in Peace Walker wasn't him either. And that would just be silly.



Now THAT could be something. Ocelot is working with Skull Face? That makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

I dont think hayter being back is the main point, but the fact that its different person.
 
S

Salaadin

Member
Ishida said:
Mmmhh.. I don't remember Ocelot mentioning such a thing to Solid Snake, but I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

I cant find it. The closest I could get is if you submit to the torture in MGS1, Ocelot says "Ill take the girl in return. Ill have my fun with her before I kill her. I hope you can still look at yourself in the mirror"
 
T

Tookay

Member
bishopcruz said:
You mean the hero of the series according to MGS4 right? God I hate what that game did to him.
Click to expand...

I don't know. Didn't make any less sense than any of his other turns.

Of course his final double/triple cross was to be working against the Patriots.

If you want to talk about a game that really damaged his character, let's talk about the arm possession in MGS2 that Kojima had to spend two games retconning/explaining away.
 
I

Ishida

Banned
Salaadin said:
I cant find it. The closest I could get is if you submit to the torture in MGS1, Ocelot says "Ill take the girl in return. Ill have my fun with her before I kill her. I hope you can still look at yourself in the mirror"
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's pretty much like that. It's interesting that the prisoner quotes, word by word, what Big Boss said to Chico, though...

I believe that the person who tortured the prisoner was Ocelot. Ocelot seems to like to steal Big Boss' phrases ("You are pretty good"?), and perhaps he heard the conversation between Big Boss and Chico through the radio or something.
 
N

NCell

Member
Ishida said:
Yeah, it's pretty much like that. It's interesting that the prisoner quotes, word by word, what Big Boss said to Chico, though...

I believe that the person who tortured the prisoner was Ocelot. Ocelot seems to like to steal Big Boss' phrases ("You are pretty good"?), and perhaps he heard the conversation between Big Boss and Chico through the radio or something.
Click to expand...

It could be Ocelot but how could Ocelot be there and Cipher not knowing what SkullFace was doing there?
 
S

Salaadin

Member
Rojo said:
I dont think hayter being back is the main point, but the fact that its different person.
Click to expand...

The problem is that in Ground Zeroes, theres so much there to tell you that you are playing as Big Boss. The old tapes from PW, the references made to PW, the fact that you even know who Chico and Paz are. Everything in Ground Zeroes ties Big Boss to Ground Zeroes.

So if a different voice means its a different person, then we are to believe that Peace Walker ended with real Big Boss going off to do something else. Paz gets kidnapped and fake Big Boss goes in to save her?

EDIT: And if this is the case, then that still doesnt explain who the prisoner in the video is talking about. Unless Real Big Boss captured Paz and sent fake Big Boss in to rescue her so he could blow up his own base.
 
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