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MGSV: Ground Zeroes - Spoilers Thread - #TeamBowie

keep in mind I haven't played peace walker, but the impression I get is that soldiers are drawn to big boss on account of kaz's big talk, rather than BB's own natural magnetism. Big boss himself being kind of a quiet, reserved guy except with his own close circle of confidants
 

Tookay

Member
I think the larger problem is that Kojima seems to write ALL of his player characters the same way every single time: subject to the whims of a supporting cast, never proactive, and without much agency. Sometimes that can be used to great effect and underline a theme, as it did with the first three MGS games since they were different protagonists each time, but when those characters become the main playable character again, it strains credibility.

In their follow-up games, both Solid Snake (in MGS4) and Big Boss (in PW and MGS V so far) lacked agency, in spite of previous games games (like MGS2 for Solid Snake and the end of MGS3 for BB) suggesting that they had learned something and were capable of taking matters into their own hands. That's a little frustrating from a character development standpoint and it's beginning to feel like a writing crutch.
 

Gestault

Member
This is pretty bunk, dude. Not that you're wrong, but bunk in the sense that this is portrayed as a fault with the series, something it's failed to accomplish, rather than one of its fundamental themes

The tragedy of Big Boss isn't that he becomes a bad guy, it's that he strives for an ideal that doesn't exist. After learning the truth about the Boss' defection, what he wants is to prevent another soldier from ever being the victim of political machinations again.He establishes Outer Heaven so soldiers can simply be soldiers, without being bound by the wills of suits and desk jockeys. But what he fails to realize is that there's no such thing as a neutral act of violence. A soldier fighting for Big Boss is no different than a soldier fighting for the Soviet Union. He becomes the thing he hates the most.

Snake Eater is a story about, above all things, perception. Remember that this was the first in the series to introduce the little thing where you can press R1 during cutscenes to see events through Snake's eyes. In doing so, we're given some extra insight into his character, even if it's just a jokey little bit where he's staring at Eva's chest while the Ocelots surround them. While it seems kinda small and insignificant, it's actually important enough that his eyes become one of the defining aspects of his character. His entire arc is illustrated through the first person view. MGS3 is a game where we see the lives of soldiers as through the campy lens of action movies(specifically modeled on James Bond and Rambo) before the facade is ripped away and we witness the true depth of their suffering. It's a campy action romp that ends as a tragedy. Honestly I think the way it plays with different tones is pretty genius.

The most important series of events in 3 is Snake's capture, torture and escape culminating in the boss fight with The Sorrow. The torture (In a microcosm of the whole game, the torture is first concealed behind a veil before it's gruesome nature is revealed) is the most graphic in the series up to this point, and there's certainly no way to "win" it like before. In Snake's cell we meet Johnny, who is actually somewhat of a warm and comforting presence. Johnny provides a humanity to all the enemy soldiers you've been facing thus far. He shows kindness to Snake, something rarely shown happening between opposing soldiers. Then the fight with the Sorrow confronts you(not just Snake, you) with your actions thus far, trying to make you rethink how callously you dispatch your foes. Now press R1 after all this happens. With his eye missing, Snake begins to quite literally see things differently. Most of the hidden R1 segments from here on out involve The Sorrow, the specter of death is shown to be guiding his every move. Snake doesn't kill Volgin, he's fried by a random bolt of lightning(summoned by the sorrow, natch). He's still beholden to forces beyond his control or comprehension. The final image we see is a POV shot of Snake tearing up as he stands before The Boss' grave. His vision is clouded here, just as his judgement will be. Literally and figuratively, he cannot see past his own pain. He is more or a less a slave to the traumas of his youth. His later ideals aren't based on any pragmatic view of what war should or shouldn't be, but just a personal desire to not be hurt in the same way again.

The important distinction between Big Boss and Solid Snake is that they're inversions of each other. Solid's story in MGS1 was all about him defying his "programming" and moving on to forge his own path despite what his genetic code(nevermind that nothing anyone in this game says about genes makes no fuckin sense, it's all metaphor) and the manipulations surrounding him were supposed to predetermine for him. On the other hand, when we meet Naked Snake he's still young and naive, but we the players know that in the future he will become a villain. In essence, his future is predetermined. Solid took what he learned about the world and used it to form his own set of values. Naked let them possess him and drive his every move. Moreover, Solid's eyepatch in 4 is on the opposite eye.

Metal Gear Solid 2 is about the folly of idolizing Solid Snake, and the danger of wanting to emulate him. The Solid Snake in this game is not the in-universe, canonical legendary soldier of Shadow Moses, but instead the video game character Solid Snake of Metal Gear Solid. And this video game character tells you not to take pixels at face value, but instead question who put the pixels there and the meaning behind them.

What I'm saying is, for Big Boss in MGSV to suddenly take charge and be the sole master of his destiny would contradict his entire character up to this point as well one of the series' main thematic conceits. Because well, being an independent man of action is an honorable and noble virtue, which is incompatible with the series' notions on war and conflict. War is a violation predicated entirely on lies and deceit, and participating in it of your own volition isn't meant to be admired or glorified.

holy shit this is long. sorry if this all seems out of order, i could ramble about mgs for a while.

You word good.
 

beastmode

Member
The Boss was "Pacifica Ocean 1," her orders were given on behalf of her dead "father" Ramón Gálvez Mena. Delivered by her "boyfriend" a child soldier the Cobra's subdued and nicknamed "End," a joke that implied if they could all be as talented as him the war would already be over.

The boy's father, an old codebreaker seeking asylum in Cuba after Hot Coldman forced him to gather a new Cobra Unit for The Bay of Pigs, was mortally wounded after Coldman supplied them false data "from" his old East German comrade, the legendary Boss of the WWII Cobras, "Thunderbolt," whom threatened to kill the son he "saved" from their medic's dying body in WWII if he didn't bring him his "daughter" that was "taken" by the CIA after WWII. She was traded for a new "Cobra," who had all of Coldman's old gear on, in an attempt to impress him.
Ocelot later sent this "Cobra" to "ambush" Snake should he "fail" in subduing his favorite intruder. This was his way of delaying word from Thunderbolt's "Chinese" spy EVA after she reported that he failed to kill Snake for the second time.
Thankfully Ocelot managed to get Thunderbolt's real revolvers out of him with a little bit of bee therapy after being "tricked" into using the most fancy gun Skull Face ever made, the one he nicknamed "The Patriot," after the new Boss he adored.

280px-PainI2.png

Johnny_tejwin.jpg

hqdefault.jpg

MGSV-E3-Trailer-Torture-Quiet.jpg

MGSV-E3-Trailer-Package.jpg

BigBoss2.jpg


Vladimir Zadornov, head of the KGB, "revealed" to him that Paz was "his daughter," and brought him into his KGB unit so he could work with Paz to sabotage Strangelove's Metal Gear under the name Huey Emmerich. You will feel ashamed of the example you set for Johnny. He thought you were a Johnny, too, John.
 

JayEH

Junior Member
The Boss was "Pacifica Ocean 1," her orders were given on behalf of her dead "father" Ramón Gálvez Mena. Delivered by her "boyfriend" a child soldier the Cobra's subdued and nicknamed "End," a joke that implied if they could all be as talented as him the war would already be over.

The boy's father, an old codebreaker seeking asylum in Cuba after Hot Coldman forced him to gather a new Cobra Unit for The Bay of Pigs, was mortally wounded after Coldman supplied them false data "from" his old East German comrade, the legendary Boss of the WWII Cobras, "Thunderbolt," whom threatened to kill the son he "saved" from their medic's dying body in WWII if he didn't bring him his "daughter" that was "taken" by the CIA after WWII. She was traded for a new "Cobra," who had all of Coldman's old gear on, in an attempt to impress him.
Ocelot later sent this "Cobra" to "ambush" Snake should he "fail" in subduing his favorite intruder. This was his way of delaying word from Thunderbolt's "Chinese" spy EVA after she reported that he failed to kill Snake for the second time.
Thankfully Ocelot managed to get Thunderbolt's real revolvers out of him with a little bit of bee therapy after being "tricked" into using the most fancy gun Skull Face ever made, the one he nicknamed "The Patriot," after the new Boss he adored.

Vladimir Zadornov, head of the KGB, "revealed" to him that Paz was "his daughter," and brought him into his KGB unit so he could work with Paz to sabotage Strangelove's Metal Gear under the name Huey Emmerich. You will feel ashamed of the example you set for Johnny. He thought you were a Johnny, too, John.

You're trying too hard now. Should've stopped while you were hot.
 

beastmode

Member
http://youtu.be/INx-SVeld3k Words that kill.

"You played me like fiddle." says a note attached to a package marked "Peace" left behind by Strangelove. Johnny's lucky he brought the package to Ocelot right away. Unlucky that Johnny incorporated a certain word into his routine because Strangelove always said it to him. Skull Face = Ocelot, becoming the real villain he always was inside, just like his father.

"Welcome back to my web, Ahab. I'm the Cobra EVA edited out of all those photographs. I'm the one who orchestrated San Heironimo. I planned the invasion of Afghanistan, all to hide you and your partner's limbs. I killed the man who sent you on the mission that haunts you. I'm the Boss you can't kill. I'm the Anti-Snake. I'm Liquid Mercury Mantis!!!

http://youtu.be/fYn1vVjCefE
Skull_Face.png
 
I know I'm certainly not the first one to point this out but I was watching Escape from New York and noticed that one of Snake Plisken's guns is a silenced Uzi and realized that's an unlockable weapon in GZ. Down to the asthetics. Thought it was a nice nod since it's well known that it's one of Kojima's favorite movies.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Amazing analysis, rosa, makes me appreciate more the characters of the games. And considering Kojima, I wouldn't say this is just a character appreciation of a fan, but a very truthful observation of the Snakes.

"You played me like fiddle." says a note attached to a package marked "Peace" left behind by Strangelove.

Ah, dude, you fucked up. It's now obvious you're joking. Fun's over.
 

Alienous

Member
Yeah, it seems like Big Boss is becoming too much a victim of circumstance. He doesn't really do anything, things happen to him.

I guess that makes for a good player protagonist, who doesn't clash with weekday what a player might be thinking, but it just makes him weak.
 
That pic above why the mask doesn't hide shit.
It doesn't hide anything that his burnt visage doesn't already, it's a taunt. "Guess who I am?" They keep playing up his unknown identity, which is partly why I'm not convinced the backstory tape we receive and are ambushed when acquiring is legit even though I wish it was because I liked it and I want him to be an original character. But I think at the very least he's kind of torturing the player, and Snake, about who he is... he's proud to be this enigma. Kind of like the Joker's multiple choice backstory thing.
 
Skullface is Char Aznable, or at the very least one of his wannabes.

Also, rofl @ drk streaming Ground Zeroes
he muted the audio when Miller yelled his famous line just to prevent chat from hearing it
 
After collecting all the tapes in the game i never expected that they were important, played them just for the sake of having nothing else to do. Paz torture and rape was a complete shock to me, i guess i know now what kojima meant with "taboos". The other thing that caught my eyes is the that skull face said that they had a "scientist" on the inside in big boss's base. Does he mean huey? Because according TPP he survived the attack with him being tortured by miller later in the game. I guess he is the one who batrayed BB from what i understand, one other thing is how terrible chico handled the situation, not only did he betaryed BB, he lead him to his fall without chico ever warning BB that all of this is a trap. Makes me want punch that POS to death.
 
The grander story arc can still accomplish all the things that you are making note of, while allowing Big Boss to be a more decisive character, Again, he's supposed to have recruited all these soldiers and they supposedly look up to him, but for what reason? It's not because he is out there telling these soldiers to fight on their own terms and not to be a blunt instrument for someone else's cause. My problem is we are just supposed to assume that everyone respects Big Boss but we never really see any of his deeds or interactions outside of his actual field work and his interactions with characters like Kaz.

Like I said, my problem is with the presentation. Instead of Big Boss speaking and delivering the main story details, in Metal Gear Solid games, it's always the supporting cast who delivers the story details and Snake (Whichever one) who fills in blanks to point things out to the player. I just want to see a Big Boss that actually stands up for whatever it is he thinks he is standing up for instead of just taking orders from Kaz or whoever else and just going with the flow without any of his own input or opinions being put out there whatsoever.

Case in point in Ground Zeroes: While Kaz is explaining the mission to Boss in the opening cutscene, Big Boss says something along the lines of "So what do you want me to do, go in and silence the targets?" He never alludes to the fact that doing so would be just randomly killing "targets" that he happens to know and are still children. He's just like "O OK THNX KAZ, I GO KILL EVERYONE NOW." Part of this may be due to the constraints of being a very short one mission game. But in The Phantom Pain, I want to see Big Boss doing the things that Big Boss WANTS to do, whether they end up being for the right reasons, or end up benefiting someone else instead. I want to see him saying, Yes, I am going to go do this, because it's what I believe in.

In that same opening dialogue, one of the only things he really says is something about a slice of American pie on communist soil or something like that. A footnote comment, not dialogue defining the character. Most modern game protagonists are written in the opposite fashion. Supporting cast are used to point out things like that and the main character delivers the "important" stuff. The things surrounding the game's themes.

All I'm saying is, for being such a legend, Big Boss hasn't exactly showcased these ideals that he is fighting for on-screen so much yet. It's kind of assumed. Solid Snake WAS a blunt instrument. That was his story. But I want to see Big Boss break that mold forcefully on his own terms. Snake Eater was about Big Boss realizing that and rethinking his approach and loyalties. So let's see that come to fruition in the actual way the character behaves, not just by the events being written.

All in all, I absolutely love Metal Gear Solid and I think Ground Zeroes is absolutely awesome. I just want to see the Big Boss we see in The Phantom Pain who has gone through all we have seen him go through and now narrowly escapes death again step back and say...Hey, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut anymore. I'm going to spend the rest of my life pushing for X,Y and Z BECAUSE X,Y, and Z.

i get what you guys are saying, but i think you're kinda lookin at this all wrong. instead of going by what the game is saying, you're taking a preconceived notion of what its supposed to be saying. instead of kojima overlooking a major element of his character, maybe the explanation is right in front of your noses. big boss simply isn't the ultra charismatic leader of men, his legend has been embellished and stretched over the years. kaz is the salesman, and big boss is the product. isn't it likely that the series with tons of commentary about the ways people are coaxed into fighting someone else's battles might be suggesting that his legend serves a similar purpose? perhaps big boss is just more of a pathetic wretch than we've been led to believe.
 
i get what you guys are saying, but i think you're kinda lookin at this all wrong. instead of going by what the game is saying, you're taking a preconceived notion of what its supposed to be saying. instead of kojima overlooking a major element of his character, maybe the explanation is right in front of your noses. big boss simply isn't the ultra charismatic leader of men, his legend has been embellished and stretched over the years. kaz is the salesman, and big boss is the product. isn't it likely that the series with tons of commentary about the ways people are coaxed into fighting someone else's battles might be suggesting that his legend serves a similar purpose? perhaps big boss is just more of a pathetic wretch than we've been led to believe.

And it's not like they didn't consider the exaggeration and manipulation of history already (fitting considering MGS2's themes and how early on such tampering with history must have occurred). Take Eva's exposition from MGS4:

Big Mama
Zero elevated Big Boss - the hero who saved the world - to
the status of an idol. The truth behind Big Boss became
riddled with exaggeration, misrepresentation, and outright
lies. Zero disseminated these stories among the masses and
gathered the rich and powerful to his banner. Every era
needs its symbols to control the people... Whether it be the
Stars and Stripes... Or the Hammer and Sickle.​
 
lol, well damn. i completely forgot about that. there's a lot I've forgotten about 4, though.

also, solid snake says pretty much the same about himself whenever anyone calls him legendary.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
The grander story arc can still accomplish all the things that you are making note of, while allowing Big Boss to be a more decisive character, Again, he's supposed to have recruited all these soldiers and they supposedly look up to him, but for what reason? It's not because he is out there telling these soldiers to fight on their own terms and not to be a blunt instrument for someone else's cause. My problem is we are just supposed to assume that everyone respects Big Boss but we never really see any of his deeds or interactions outside of his actual field work and his interactions with characters like Kaz.

Like I said, my problem is with the presentation. Instead of Big Boss speaking and delivering the main story details, in Metal Gear Solid games, it's always the supporting cast who delivers the story details and Snake (Whichever one) who fills in blanks to point things out to the player. I just want to see a Big Boss that actually stands up for whatever it is he thinks he is standing up for instead of just taking orders from Kaz or whoever else and just going with the flow without any of his own input or opinions being put out there whatsoever.

Case in point in Ground Zeroes: While Kaz is explaining the mission to Boss in the opening cutscene, Big Boss says something along the lines of "So what do you want me to do, go in and silence the targets?" He never alludes to the fact that doing so would be just randomly killing "targets" that he happens to know and are still children. He's just like "O OK THNX KAZ, I GO KILL EVERYONE NOW." Part of this may be due to the constraints of being a very short one mission game. But in The Phantom Pain, I want to see Big Boss doing the things that Big Boss WANTS to do, whether they end up being for the right reasons, or end up benefiting someone else instead. I want to see him saying, Yes, I am going to go do this, because it's what I believe in.

In that same opening dialogue, one of the only things he really says is something about a slice of American pie on communist soil or something like that. A footnote comment, not dialogue defining the character. Most modern game protagonists are written in the opposite fashion. Supporting cast are used to point out things like that and the main character delivers the "important" stuff. The things surrounding the game's themes.

All I'm saying is, for being such a legend, Big Boss hasn't exactly showcased these ideals that he is fighting for on-screen so much yet. It's kind of assumed. Solid Snake WAS a blunt instrument. That was his story. But I want to see Big Boss break that mold forcefully on his own terms. Snake Eater was about Big Boss realizing that and rethinking his approach and loyalties. So let's see that come to fruition in the actual way the character behaves, not just by the events being written.

All in all, I absolutely love Metal Gear Solid and I think Ground Zeroes is absolutely awesome. I just want to see the Big Boss we see in The Phantom Pain who has gone through all we have seen him go through and now narrowly escapes death again step back and say...Hey, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut anymore. I'm going to spend the rest of my life pushing for X,Y and Z BECAUSE X,Y, and Z.

Once again I agree.

i get what you guys are saying, but i think you're kinda lookin at this all wrong. instead of going by what the game is saying, you're taking a preconceived notion of what its supposed to be saying. instead of kojima overlooking a major element of his character, maybe the explanation is right in front of your noses. big boss simply isn't the ultra charismatic leader of men, his legend has been embellished and stretched over the years. kaz is the salesman, and big boss is the product. isn't it likely that the series with tons of commentary about the ways people are coaxed into fighting someone else's battles might be suggesting that his legend serves a similar purpose? perhaps big boss is just more of a pathetic wretch than we've been led to believe.

However, Kojima has shown Big Boss to be a charismatic figure that people would join up with, like I said the problem is once they join up there is no explanation as to why they would stay with him. Big Boss just never seems like the guy in charge, he just does what Kaz tells him is a good idea, he never seems to have a plan of his own or really seem like a leader. Yet, all time time we hear about his leadership qualities off screen even in PW the cassette tapes detail how Big Boss runs MSF but we never see this in-person only referenced in third person from Paz's tapes. For once I just want him to say "We are going to do X" at which point everyone else supports him to achieve this goal.

I mean fuck, even in PW he didn't come up with the idea to build Metal Gear that was all Huey. Afterwards, BB is like "yeah, that's not a bad idea, carry on building your bi-pedal nuclear equipped tank." This is in fact a serious design flaw, it's not like Kojima is purposefully deflating BB's mythos by showing he was never this guy who had all the answers, it is an actual design flaw. Again, I point to the inconsistencies within PW where in-game he simply follows orders, and yet outside of the game behind the scenes he is supposedly leading and in charge. It's time for Kojima to show BB as a man of action, it doesn't matter if his actions are wrong or he doesn't really have any answers but he needs to show he has conviction, that believes in something and is willing to see it through.
 
i get what you guys are saying, but i think you're kinda lookin at this all wrong. instead of going by what the game is saying, you're taking a preconceived notion of what its supposed to be saying. instead of kojima overlooking a major element of his character, maybe the explanation is right in front of your noses. big boss simply isn't the ultra charismatic leader of men, his legend has been embellished and stretched over the years. kaz is the salesman, and big boss is the product. isn't it likely that the series with tons of commentary about the ways people are coaxed into fighting someone else's battles might be suggesting that his legend serves a similar purpose? perhaps big boss is just more of a pathetic wretch than we've been led to believe.

That was Solid Snake's arc. Solid Snake was legend, but in the end was kind of an empty pawn with very little choice in his life. I just want to see a different story arc for Big Boss.
 

Holykael1

Banned
That, and video games sure are fond of poor taste twists like these.

...

It would actually be a psychologically consistent twist with the Chico character we have come to know(the fact that he was forced to rape his loved one and the fact that he spilled the beans twice during torture). I don't actually believe it's true but if it were true I don't think it would be a "poor taste twist" at all.
 

Jonnax

Member
...

It would actually be a psychologically consistent twist with the Chico character we have come to know(the fact that he was forced to rape his loved one and the fact that he spilled the beans twice during torture). I don't actually believe it's true but if it were true I don't think it would be a "poor taste twist" at all.

Chico was forced to rape Paz? Was this in one of the extra cassettes?
 

Spaghetti

Member
little bit overstating that chico raping paz happened as a fact when the tape cuts before anything occurs.

you can interpret the blank space how you like. i believe chico talked because he couldn't bring himself to do it.
 

SMZC

Member
Chico was forced to rape Paz?

We actually don't know. He definitely was threatened to do it, at least, but no one knows if he actually did it. He gave in to the torture and decided to tell Skull Face what he wanted to know in the tape right after that one, so it's actually quite possible that the threat of being forced to rape Paz was what made Chico give in to the torture. In other words, he possibly never went through with the act.

Edit: Beaten.
 

Reave

Member
We actually don't know. He definitely was threatened to do it, at least, but no one knows if he actually did it. He gave in to the torture and decided to tell Skull Face what he wanted to know in the tape right after that one, so it's actually quite possible that the threat of being forced to rape Paz was what made Chico give in to the torture. In other words, he possibly never went through with the act.

Not sure whether he did or didn't, but from the sound of it, he was definitely brought in for a close view of Paz and her... well, you know. Still pretty damaging for a kid either way.
 

SMZC

Member
Not sure whether he did or didn't, but from the sound of it, he was definitely brought in for a close view of Paz and her... well, you know. Still pretty damaging for a kid either way.

Oh yes, definitely. Especially given that he had feelings for her, as the tapes imply. That's also probably why the threat of raping her was what made him give in, despite of enduring the torture up until that moment.
 

atr0cious

Member
little bit overstating that chico raping paz happened as a fact when the tape cuts before anything occurs.

you can interpret the blank space how you like. i believe chico talked because he couldn't bring himself to do it.

People are complaining over what was suggested in the game, so I don't think having recorded rape in a video game would in anyway add to the game anymore than what was already suggested in the tapes. And doesn't the tape cutting off pretty much confirm it, when in another scene with "sex" it records it which would mean chico was just observing that time?
 

cackhyena

Member
I had only listened to tape 7 yesterday for the first time. Could have done without the sound made when the second bomb was inserted.
 
Am I just desensitized? Speaking on the ending (not the tapes) there was a lot of press on how it was over the top, too dark, gory for the sake of being gory, etc. But I didn't see any of that. Sure it was bloody, there were screams but nothing that made me cringe or that seemed like Kojima was taking it too far.

This video is an example of what I'm talking about. Have I been desensitized or these people just have weak stomachs?

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/03/19/metal-gear-solid-v-ground-zeroes-ending-spoiler-chat
 

Holykael1

Banned
Am I just desensitized? Speaking on the ending (not the tapes) there was a lot of press on how it was over the top, too dark, gory for the sake of being gory, etc. But I didn't see any of that. Sure it was bloody, there were screams but nothing that made me cringe or that seemed like Kojima was taking it too far.

This video is an example of what I'm talking about. Have I been desensitized or these people just have weak stomachs?

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/03/19/metal-gear-solid-v-ground-zeroes-ending-spoiler-chat

I'm on your side. I didn't think it was shock for shock's sake and it felt very appropriate in context. We are talking about a parallel to Guantanamo Bay here afterall..
 

Spaghetti

Member
People are complaining over what was suggested in the game, so I don't think having recorded rape in a video game would in anyway add to the game anymore than what was already suggested in the tapes. And doesn't the tape cutting off pretty much confirm it, when in another scene with "sex" it records it which would mean chico was just observing that time?
i never actually said anything about people complaining about it.

what i'm saying is that, by referring to the rape as a fact, ground zeroes becomes "that game with a rape scene" and just disseminates disinformation and draws undue flak to the game.

as for the tape cutting, i don't believe it confirms anything. the fact it skips right to chico giving in and how defeated he sounds lends evidence to the idea that he refused to do it and sold big boss out instead. it's not in his character to violate paz like that
 

strobogo

Banned
I thought the tape was implying that Skullface made Chico go down on Paz, based on talking about the taste and how to tell the difference between a good fruit and sour or whatever.
 

Timeaisis

Member
Am I just desensitized? Speaking on the ending (not the tapes) there was a lot of press on how it was over the top, too dark, gory for the sake of being gory, etc. But I didn't see any of that. Sure it was bloody, there were screams but nothing that made me cringe or that seemed like Kojima was taking it too far.

This video is an example of what I'm talking about. Have I been desensitized or these people just have weak stomachs?

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/03/19/metal-gear-solid-v-ground-zeroes-ending-spoiler-chat

It was gory, but, I mean, I wasn't offended or anything. Most horror movies are way, way worse. This was surprising, surely, and disturbing, but didn't really seem put there for shock value sake. It seemed to be put there to make you realize that shit is going down.
 

atr0cious

Member
i never actually said anything about people complaining about it.

what i'm saying is that, by referring to the rape as a fact, ground zeroes becomes "that game with a rape scene" and just disseminates disinformation and draws undue flak to the game.

as for the tape cutting, i don't believe it confirms anything. the fact it skips right to chico giving in and how defeated he sounds lends evidence to the idea that he refused to do it and sold big boss out instead. it's not in his character to violate paz like that

I'm not saying you are, I'm making the observation that some would view what is already in the game not okay, and just because a game has a touchy subject, if the game offers an actual conversation, we should be accepting of it.

That's kind of the point. He loves her so much, he cuts his own dick off afterwards. Like I said, the fact that the tape cuts back suggests Chico is the one recording it and is too embarrassed of himself to let the record show. Why would he record the other encounter where you can actually hear it, if it was all just about Paz? It's guilt, he can be talking about "proving he's a man" as much as squealing.
At the end of Tape 4, is it implied that Paz is trying to have consensual sex with Chico. I know it ends with something like "Do you want to do it here?". That part was weird.
Maybe she's trying to make it "right?"
 

JayEH

Junior Member
At the end of Tape 4, is it implied that Paz is trying to have consensual sex with Chico? I know it ends with something like "Do you want to do it here?" and Chico keeps saying stop it. That part was weird.
 
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