Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Maybe "their own fault is a poor choice of words". I just honestly feel if you can
avoid this entirely, why not just avoid it?
and yes, you can
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MIC: Overwatch players turn to Reddit to share their stories of Harrassment
- Thread starter EdibleKnife
- Start date
Iriscomeback
Member
Because then you let these assholes win.
CyanideFuse
Member
Poor choice of words? If I am understanding your sentence you mean words from the cess-pit riddled gobs of the idiots that spout said words?
I understand certain regions / countries have their own colloquialisms that may be taken the wrong way (rightly or wrongly so) if you are not familiar with them but the utter bollocks in the OP is not a poor choice of word(s). It goes beyond that in an exponentially large manner.
He meant that when he was victim blaming the people subjected this harassment he used a "poor choice of words".
CyanideFuse
Member
Ah, right. Okay.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I shouldn't be surprised there are victim blamers here.
This is not okay. Being horrible to anyone is not okay.
We shouldn't accept it as such.
This is not okay. Being horrible to anyone is not okay.
We shouldn't accept it as such.
Agreed.
harriet the spy
Member
I wonder if this happens more in the higher tiers or lower tiers of the game. I have to say that overall I'm pretty positively surprised by the community (and realize it doesn't seem to match what the game OT's experience is)- i must have played about 20 hours, in most games I hear people talking, not infrequently woman and i have only very rarely heard people being toxic (and never to woman players actually). In fact I remember being shocked when a woman started speaking on voice chat and one player was like 'wow you're a girl' and instead of piling on her, everyone started to make fun of him ('yeah like 50% of the population shocking right').
The most toxic behavior is usually someone that stops playing entirely because they don't like the team comp. A few incidents of people wishing that another players's parents would die or something like that (everyone reported them).
But I only play competitive at somewhat scrub tier.
The most toxic behavior is usually someone that stops playing entirely because they don't like the team comp. A few incidents of people wishing that another players's parents would die or something like that (everyone reported them).
But I only play competitive at somewhat scrub tier.
I wish the 'It' you're referring to is avoiding being a dick to people online for slights, imagined or otherwise, but then again, this is gaming so we gotta tell the people getting abused to avoid stuff.
It's simple: You call people bad things over a game in chat or otherwise: Temp chat/voice ban. You do it again? You now can't write or use voice again. Suck it up, buddy.
I can tolerate it quite easily during online games but I do find the communities to tend to be getting worse and Overwatch has a pretty bad one due to the short games, high competitive nature and the lack of community in game.
I would guess the percentage of players that are female is much higher in Overwatch compared to other FPS games like COD, BF1 etc so it is a more common occurrence.
You tend to see this less in MMOs as a, they tend to not have voice comms and b, they are more community driven in game so you are more likely to stumble into that user again or cause some harm to their reputation where as in FPS games you'll see them for 15 minutes and very unlikely see them again so the report function is the only action against them.
It is super gross how toxic the community can be at times and even more so when a lot of the gamers are adults in their early 20s making similar comments it isn't just a bunch of 13 year olds trying to look badass in front of their mates.
I hope Blizzard find a way to punish the foul mouthed gamers who enjoy ruining the experience for others but until then I have voice comms off and just use Discord.
I would guess the percentage of players that are female is much higher in Overwatch compared to other FPS games like COD, BF1 etc so it is a more common occurrence.
You tend to see this less in MMOs as a, they tend to not have voice comms and b, they are more community driven in game so you are more likely to stumble into that user again or cause some harm to their reputation where as in FPS games you'll see them for 15 minutes and very unlikely see them again so the report function is the only action against them.
It is super gross how toxic the community can be at times and even more so when a lot of the gamers are adults in their early 20s making similar comments it isn't just a bunch of 13 year olds trying to look badass in front of their mates.
I hope Blizzard find a way to punish the foul mouthed gamers who enjoy ruining the experience for others but until then I have voice comms off and just use Discord.
RipperGrim
Member
It's honestly time for the people making the games (Not just Blizzard) to take a lot more responsibility. It varies from company to company but for the most part they are all failing to make the the online social experiences something to be enjoyed, these days mostly everyone just mutes all lines of communication because it's so bad.
It's not easy at all to fix but it's come to the point where it NEEDS to be fixed, set up a system with actual people working full time dealing with harassment in their games, use their anti cheating systems to punish major offenders when valid proof is provided.
I don't believe at all that any company so far has taken this issue as seriously as they actually should and I wouldn't be surprised if it's because they are worried about pushing customers away, they just do enough to look like they are trying.
It's not easy at all to fix but it's come to the point where it NEEDS to be fixed, set up a system with actual people working full time dealing with harassment in their games, use their anti cheating systems to punish major offenders when valid proof is provided.
I don't believe at all that any company so far has taken this issue as seriously as they actually should and I wouldn't be surprised if it's because they are worried about pushing customers away, they just do enough to look like they are trying.
Frozenprince
Banned
Right? Live as a minority in this world and your whole life is basically "growing thicker skin"
The one time I've seen this in overwatch, I chewed out the offender, he went straight into victim mode.
I was honestly more surprised at "fence sitters" and people who think its better to remain neutral to jackasses. I was the only one who went after him, then some neutral moron decided it was time to say something to both of us. Lol defend your freaking community so it can remain a great place, come on.
I was honestly more surprised at "fence sitters" and people who think its better to remain neutral to jackasses. I was the only one who went after him, then some neutral moron decided it was time to say something to both of us. Lol defend your freaking community so it can remain a great place, come on.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
These assholes have been winning. I've been playing online since Halo2 and voice chat is always gonna be the same. Theres always gonna be turds who sour the whole thing.
Im in no way saying it's okay or something shouldn't be done. But something hasn't been done imo for the last 13 years and I don't see it changing.
I myself prefer to stick to my friends or people from the looking for group feature to filter out dickheads. I feel everyone should do the same. I dont listen to this toxic shit anymore because I don't have to. Theres plenty of features and ways to avoid these people.
Solo queueing with your mic in is sadly just asking for dickheads.
Big online games have multiple 100k people, some games even millions concurrently playing games in multiple languages all over the globe. If you want a live team policing that you need a bit more than a few "full time employees".
It's about as realistic as policing youtube or facebook by hand. and overwatch is a 60$ game... many online games nowadays have a very low barrier of entry or are completely free. Banned players can just sign up again.
I really doubt companies like Blizzard, Riot ect. do "the absolute minimum", since they would clearly benefit a lot from a pleasent online experience.
This is not Halo 2, This is Overwatch. This game was made for everyone. It appeals to women, it appeals to people of different colour. Look at the cast of characters.
For once, I just wish we could not let the racists and misogynists win.
Just once.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
What? I've played countless games online that appealed to different people.
necroticart
Neo Member
It's a shame this goes on. We have had online gaming for how long. It's time people are held to a higher standard. Most people would not go up to a random women and say that kind of stuff.The real problem is they are anonymous and behind a mic. If the community had a way of unmasking them a bit it might help. My suggestion is to contact Blizzard at least they are a company that is open to user feed back.
Yeah you can tell when there is a girl playing they were very skeptical of using a mic at first.
Usually after a while of others chatting on the mic, they'll pipe up when they hear people aren't assholes. But that often prompts some lame chat messages from the ones off-mic.
A shame because OW is great with communication.
It's a little similar with young ones on the mic, afraid to talk because they'll get abused too. It's so fun playing with kids who know what they're doing.
"...yea...I have a mic...but I'm a squeaker"
Usually after a while of others chatting on the mic, they'll pipe up when they hear people aren't assholes. But that often prompts some lame chat messages from the ones off-mic.
A shame because OW is great with communication.
It's a little similar with young ones on the mic, afraid to talk because they'll get abused too. It's so fun playing with kids who know what they're doing.
"...yea...I have a mic...but I'm a squeaker"
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Be careful out there. Online gaming- especially with popular games like Overwatch- is loaded with people you do not want attention from, and they are not there to have fun with the game like you are. Their fun comes from abusing or trolling you.
RipperGrim
Member
Their games are cesspools of shit, they are failing their community and like I said the idea that it's not easy to fix means people shouldn't bother should no longer be accepted. These people are literally in charge of the infrastructure there is a lot more they can be doing and they are not and honestly it should no longer be accepted and I'm tired of people accepting it.
Neogaf is a perfect example of stringent moderating done to keep it together, and it has thousands of members with a fraction of them being moderators. If they took harassment as seriously as they take cheating then this wouldn't be an issue,
A friend of mine has a speech impediment that will cause him to stammer over his words quite loudly. Of course, in a public voice channel, sounding different is a excuse for abuse. Usually he'd have me and a couple of other guys fighting his corner with a dry sense of humor. But then we're abusing the abuser, and the cycle continues.
Without condoning the behavior of these people, my friend has developed quite a thick skin as a result of the abuse. There was a point in his life that he would refuse to socialize because he knew he'd be tormented. Today, he just doesn't care. He doesn't need acceptance from these dickheads. So when someone mentions his stammer now, the indifference in his response is a glorious sight to behold.
Again, people shouldn't have to go through this kind of stuff, and it'd be ignorant to suggest my friend is completely immune to abuse and that he isn't still occasionally hurt by it. But the character building, as a direct result, can't be ignored and his ability to handle the torment has given him a better quality of life.
Of course everyone's case is different, but I think it's interesting how so much hatred and negativity can be turned into a huge positive depending on the reaction of the person receiving it.
Without condoning the behavior of these people, my friend has developed quite a thick skin as a result of the abuse. There was a point in his life that he would refuse to socialize because he knew he'd be tormented. Today, he just doesn't care. He doesn't need acceptance from these dickheads. So when someone mentions his stammer now, the indifference in his response is a glorious sight to behold.
Again, people shouldn't have to go through this kind of stuff, and it'd be ignorant to suggest my friend is completely immune to abuse and that he isn't still occasionally hurt by it. But the character building, as a direct result, can't be ignored and his ability to handle the torment has given him a better quality of life.
Of course everyone's case is different, but I think it's interesting how so much hatred and negativity can be turned into a huge positive depending on the reaction of the person receiving it.
Not just Overwatch but I've found Blizzard games in general to have very toxic communities. This is probably just because their games are extremely popular and thus more people playing= more assholes. I have no idea how you could ever fix it. Over the years I've learned how to deal with it but I do feel bad for those who may not be able to handle it as well.
YuriLowell
Member
I have found that Overwatch is more toxic than Dota 2 lately, and that is saying something.
I remember my tenure as a guild leader in a wow guild being mostly an HR job. At our largest we had Afew hundred people running multiple ages. Luckily for us out officer core were all pretty old so we didn't have a really toxic environment but sometimes shit slipped through the cracks.
One little shit in our guild apparently was trying out the theory that anyone who didn't speak on vent was a girl hiding. A barrage of harassment went on for Afew weeks behind the scenes before he found someone who wasn't willing to just ignore him and then it was finally brought up to our guild leadership. It's fucking strange how far people will take trolling or just being awful people on the internet where there aren't real consequences. We kicked the guy out but he just server transfered and likely continued his bullshit. Even if he got a harassment ban from Blizzard it wouldn't have been that long or he could have just buy a new key.
I have a daughter and it blows to think about the potential for bullshit she's going to encounter if she opts to take part in this hobby.
One little shit in our guild apparently was trying out the theory that anyone who didn't speak on vent was a girl hiding. A barrage of harassment went on for Afew weeks behind the scenes before he found someone who wasn't willing to just ignore him and then it was finally brought up to our guild leadership. It's fucking strange how far people will take trolling or just being awful people on the internet where there aren't real consequences. We kicked the guy out but he just server transfered and likely continued his bullshit. Even if he got a harassment ban from Blizzard it wouldn't have been that long or he could have just buy a new key.
I have a daughter and it blows to think about the potential for bullshit she's going to encounter if she opts to take part in this hobby.
Don't be "it is what is is" dude. If you are unabashedly against a certain issue and think it is wrong, be proactive about seeking change. Ignoring the issue and letting it be allows the problem to persist and grow.
It's why in 2017 we are dealing with the same problems with being moderately respectful on the internet as we did since its inception.
If someone is being disrespectful, call them the fuck out on it, don't ignore it or just laugh it off (especially when you're not the victim and have the chance to help someone else out).
I agree with this. There needs to be real consequences in place.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
The more popular a game gets, the more abusers will switch over to that game. They go where the player count is, so it's even worse than more players = more assholes.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I was joking
the prevailing proposal for people dealing with harassment is "log off", which is obviously stupid and ineffectual.I was joking
ohh haha okay
♥YuriLowell
Member
I agree that there needs to be more enforcement action taken against these people. but they ban people on a second offense. They are potential sources of revenue.
Messofanego
Banned
Neogaf already pre selects who can even sign up. That's not going to happen with games. With overwatch, you'd at least have to buy the game again after a ban, but with a huge amount of online games there are no barriers to signing up at all. Banning these people isn't a good enough solution and it won't solve the problem.
That's before the issue of banning people who are innocent. Ban too quickly and you'll ban a lot of the people you want to protect. That works fine on a free forum, but for a product you bought? Eh....
I don't want to give the impression that i'm against companies doing something or that nothing needs to be done, i'm just arguing against the idea that the only thing needed to fix this, is blizzard spending a couple of millions more on customer support.
With how big competitive/online gaming has gotten, I'm genuinely surprised by the lack of moderators on voice-chat servers. I'm admittedly ignorant to the structure, but would hiring teams of moderators/admins (similar to forums, I suppose) quell this issue? Or do punishments just need to be more severe in general for harassment?
While I get what you mean for this specific instance, he shouldn't have had to have hardened himself that way.
And as there are plenty of people out there who wouldn't have this "growth" for whatever reason and be defeated by the encounter I think discussing the "benefits" of being bullied online isn't a conversation to have right now.
There needs to be more more opposition and more pro-active solutions from devs, not resignation and a call of "make the most of it".
AtomskEater
Member
I never use in-game voice chats because I'm afraid of having to deal with shit like this. I played Overwatch during a free weekend, and my friends and I stuck to using another chat client to talk to each other during.
Not that it always puts an end to these things, people can and have said shit to me about my gender and race (or what they assumed it to be based off whatever character/avatar I was using) in chat.
I've seen some people (in other threads) talk about how shit talking is another layer to the game and it's pretty disgusting. If it must happen, keep it about skills, lack of teamwork, etc. Why does it have to get personal?
Not that it always puts an end to these things, people can and have said shit to me about my gender and race (or what they assumed it to be based off whatever character/avatar I was using) in chat.
I've seen some people (in other threads) talk about how shit talking is another layer to the game and it's pretty disgusting. If it must happen, keep it about skills, lack of teamwork, etc. Why does it have to get personal?
I've played online games casually since my Xbox 360 days, and I've heard some pretty immature things said. But I'll be honest, as a non-MMO/MOBA player the chatter I've heard on Overwatch is pretty much the worst.
Pretty big turn off for me, and honestly one of the main reasons I haven't played much in recent weeks.
Just for clarification: I don't think it's Blizzards fault, just a result of the mass popularity of the game. More players = more assholes.
Pretty big turn off for me, and honestly one of the main reasons I haven't played much in recent weeks.
Just for clarification: I don't think it's Blizzards fault, just a result of the mass popularity of the game. More players = more assholes.
BannedEpisode
Member
Crazy thing is ive put over 100 hours into the game in competitive, and always used a microphone. I can only think of maybe 5 times when someone was being toxic.
People need to not be shitty, but it's really as easy as hitting "p" on the keyboard and muting someone the second they get shitty.
I was legitimately shocked the last time I heard someone immediately start off trolling. Got into a match, said hi, and some guy just starts off with, "hey fag you like dicks?! Lol haha wow".
Drewscanlon.gif
Pressed P, muted him, that was the end of it. Everyone else was fine.
Can imagine that getting old for women though.
People need to not be shitty, but it's really as easy as hitting "p" on the keyboard and muting someone the second they get shitty.
I was legitimately shocked the last time I heard someone immediately start off trolling. Got into a match, said hi, and some guy just starts off with, "hey fag you like dicks?! Lol haha wow".
Drewscanlon.gif
Pressed P, muted him, that was the end of it. Everyone else was fine.
Can imagine that getting old for women though.
I 'retired' from online gaming a few years back - although still dabble in Destiny sometimes.
Feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with any abuse.
All I will add is that when I played multiplayer in the early 360 days / end of OG xbox (so 2004-2006 ish) playing games like Rainbow Six Black Arrow and Call of Duty 2 the communities were great. Almost everyone talked on voice chat - complete strangers bonding. Loved it.
Now whenever I play multiplayer games I hardly hear anyone ever talk - and whenever anyone does talk it tends to a trashy teenager with horrible music in the background.
It's a shame how it has changed so much. I guess my 'nerd' hobby when I was a kid has turned into a massive mainstream thing - and that has brought along the trolls / pathetic teenagers.
Feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with any abuse.
All I will add is that when I played multiplayer in the early 360 days / end of OG xbox (so 2004-2006 ish) playing games like Rainbow Six Black Arrow and Call of Duty 2 the communities were great. Almost everyone talked on voice chat - complete strangers bonding. Loved it.
Now whenever I play multiplayer games I hardly hear anyone ever talk - and whenever anyone does talk it tends to a trashy teenager with horrible music in the background.
It's a shame how it has changed so much. I guess my 'nerd' hobby when I was a kid has turned into a massive mainstream thing - and that has brought along the trolls / pathetic teenagers.
This is apparently super prevalent. It is fucking deprolable. In my 300h with OW I've been lucky enough to not have seen any of this yet even once though. I mean toxic fuckheads in general, yes but nothing directed at a gender. But that is solely my experience on OVERWATCH. Pretty much any other online game and I've seen that happen so many times to women in the match. It's such a shame too. It also feels like an impossible battle to win. The group I play with is pretty much 50/50 guys and girls and we never partake in team chat nor does anyone have a name that implies gender.
It's fucking crazy that this shit still isn't getting any better. So many cunty player of games still think that men have some kind of ownership of this hobby. I'm not sure regular bans would suffice anyway, people already make throwaway accounts for Overwatch. You'd think the decent diversity would put utter cunts off playing but nope.
YourMaster
Member
Well, no. For people like this shit talking has a higher priority than regular voice chat, so if they are banned a bit more often, they'll deal with that. At least they get the option to be rude to a lady sometimes.
And it's not like the solution is difficult. All voice messages can and should be recorded client side by all who hear it and stored for a limited period of time. When you as a player get any verbal assault of any kind you should be able to easily report that and be able to provide the recorded voice that is still linked to the perpetrator
The provider of the server should than evaluate the voice recording, and if true and serious ban the player from any further online interactions. There should be an industry wide organization to share bans which allows these persons to be banned from most/all games with is for all time.
This will quickly dry up the pool of sexual harassers. Also, don't forget that part of the people uttering this kind of talk learned this from voice chat in the first place. You'll always get some new people, but if everybody gets banned after the first time, that normal people only have to deal with this on average 2 or 3 times in their whole live, not every 3 games they play.
Furthermore, the personal details of the perpetrator along with the recording should be shared with the victim, to allow for easy legal action if desired/required.
This isn't rocket science, and the only reason why something like this isn't done is because Blizzard and similar companies appreciate the racists and misogynists as customers.
When you have the president of the USA throwing insults & lies on Twitter, does that really surprise you?
You'd think it would be easy and simple to report it in this day and age.
Consoles have built in record and upload feature:
-Someone says stupid shit.
-Record footage showing online handle pop up with the mic icon saying stupid shit.
-Upload video to developer.
-Developer bans online handle.
Most report systems are the equivalent of companies having a paper shredder in their complaints letter box.
Consoles have built in record and upload feature:
-Someone says stupid shit.
-Record footage showing online handle pop up with the mic icon saying stupid shit.
-Upload video to developer.
-Developer bans online handle.
Most report systems are the equivalent of companies having a paper shredder in their complaints letter box.
thechristoph
Sir!
Probably easy, but not cheap. You'd have to staff a team to handle this. It's all about gettin' that paper. If you buy Overwatch and then quit playing because the community sucks, Activision already got that paper.
Are you a white guy? Or a guy with a voice that doesn't stand out?
If so, then I'm not surprised you've not heard it that often.
You're not a target if the above is true, and those who are are very likely not bothering to engage with public chat enough for you to hear it for the precise reasons brought up in this thread.
Were you a girl, or someone with a voice that stood out as a target, and yo used the voice chat as often as you do now, you'd very likely have different experiences to relate.
SafeinSound
Member
Stuff like this has been going on for a long time. Just happy to see it's being brought to light more. The hatred and disgust of one another through a video game is disturbing. I've been online gaming for close to 20 years and it's always been there, but it seems like now more than ever.
People think that hiding behind a screen allows them to get away with whatever they want. When all it truly does it show them what kind of person they are deep down inside, everyday.
People think that hiding behind a screen allows them to get away with whatever they want. When all it truly does it show them what kind of person they are deep down inside, everyday.