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[Krakn3Dfx]

Sony never commented on how much RAM was being used for the OS/games.

It was mentioned or rumoured that it was 512kb when the console had 4GB RAM and the bump to 8GB made people assume 1GB for the OS.

In any case, I'm a little concerned that both these consoles are due to launch in, if rumours hold, November, and they're still messing around with OS allocations, clockspeeds and whatever else. Nice they're trying to squeeze as much as they can out of final hardware but, hell, it's making me nervous.

Sony and MS were "messing around" with PS3/360 RAM allocation numbers for years past the console launches, streamlining functionality and decreasing the size of the OS footprints to make more room for games. There's nothing weird and worrisome about it, that's just how things work in an age of firmware and operating system updates on game consoles.

I'd be more concerned if they just took a "good enough" stance a year ahead of time and let everything ride.

 

[FranXico]

I actually feel somewhat differently about it. Don't get me wrong, it's extremely nice of him to take time out of his busy day to share a little information with us, but I feel like it's something that shouldn't need to be done. If their messaging were wide open and honest, there'd be no need to clarify this stuff on message boards.

Look at it this way: The podcast where this GPU speed increase was mentioned was the first time a Microsoft employee ever confirmed that the speed used to be 800Mhz. If Microsoft had been up front about these numbers from day one, nobody would be calling them out now. When they went out of their way to hide the numbers, it just made them look as though they were afraid to speak about console power because they knew they were behind Sony.

Transparency breeds trust. And Albert's explanations, though appreciated, wouldn't be necessary.

Regardless of what the PR team at MS does, insiders are welcome to GAF.

 

[statham]

But has Sorny Said how much ram was for os and how much for games? All I know I heard from Sony is 8gb in the box.

no, but they also never disputed the 3.5gb amount/leak when they responded.

 

[FranXico]

no, but they also never disputed the 3.5gb amount/leak when they responded.

They made "no comments". That also means that they never confirmed the 4GB amount rumor DF digged out from Beyond3D.

Just like they had made no comments on DRM before E3, which obviously resulted on the PS4 using the same style of DRM as that which was planned for the X1.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

no, but they also never disputed the 3.5gb amount/leak when they responded.

They don't comment on rumors, but several PS4 developers have come out and said those numbers are BS. That article has been debunked several times over at this point.

 

[Xbudz]

If Microsoft had been up front about these numbers from day one, nobody would be calling them out now. When they went out of their way to hide the numbers...

Final numbers were obviously not nailed down, one can imagine that might have something to do with them not announcing them until ready.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Albert, thanks for jumping in and giving us some more insight into what's happening at Xbox HQ.

I have a question for you and I ask this in the most respectful way:

You said

Unfortunately, I can't comment on any rumors. I try to come on and provide clarity and more detail around things we've already announced. But I cannot for obvious reasons start confirming or denying rumors.

and I understand that's a PR line, it's ok. But if not by you and not now, when will these rumors/questions be put to bed/confirmed/answered? Will you guys talk more about specs, architecture, live, etc at Gamescom? Will you have an X0 event sometime this year or rather, will you have a dedicated event for the Xbox One before launch? I mean U.S. launch, to be clear.

 

[Klocker]

They don't comment on rumors, but several PS4 developers have come out and said those numbers are BS. That article has been debunked several times over at this point.

nah. There are still people saying devs are telling them absolutely true that ps4 has 4.5-5 GB for games. A good source on b3d not to mention the article. Of course sony won't comment on it but its pretty much considered fact now

 

[BruiserBear]

Albert, it was a really good idea for you to come to GAF and interact. Thanks for doing it. I think you can get a lot of good will from the forum by talking straight to everyone without the PR noise.

Agreed.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

nah. There are still people saying devs are telling them absolutely true that ps4 has 4.5-5 GB for games. A good source on b3d not to mention the article. Of course sony won't comment on it but its pretty much considered fact now

What article, Brian Provinciano from Vblank, who is actually working on the hardware, said it was “absolutely false. Absolutely ridiculous" on his blog.

 

[demolitio]

nah. There are still people saying devs are telling them absolutely true that ps4 has 4.5-5 GB for games. A good source on b3d not to mention the article. Of course sony won't comment on it but its pretty much considered fact now

Only fact if you place B3D on a pedestal and think certain unknown developer sources are more reliable than other developers that come right out and say it without the anonymity...

Talk about jumping the gun. "It's pretty much true because SOURCES from B3D said so even though actual developers contested that point". A little early to call it fact but I guess that's what people here like to do for argumentative reasons...

 

[Klocker]

Oh forgot my disclaimer

*unless you are in denial*

 

[Coffee Dog]

Will coding to the metal beat a 680?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Will coding to the metal beat a 680?

expect Titan SLI performance

 

[kasane]

I think they did this so they can get a 1 up on marketing. We have higher clock speed than Sony! Not that i know what the upclock gives

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I think they did this so they can get a 1 up on marketing. We have higher clock speed than Sony! Not that i know what the upclock gives

But they already had 5 billion transistors and cloud power.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Only fact if you place B3D on a pedestal and think certain unknown developer sources are more reliable than other developers that come right out and say it without the anonymity...

Talk about jumping the gun. "It's pretty much true because SOURCES from B3D said so even though actual developers contested that point". A little early to call it fact but I guess that's what people here like to do for argumentative reasons...

B3D is actually infested with MS shills and so is a very bad source for anything. When Leadbetter and DF is sourcing B3D for his "exclusive" information in his awful articles, you know something has gone horribly wrong there.

As with AVS Forum during the days of the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war, B3D picked the MS shill side and they will lose all their credibility the way AVS did.

 

[Dictator93]

Will coding to the metal beat a 680?

At least 4 of them. Depends on how close to the metal we are talking. Like 2 meters?
Then just 1

 

[faulty_fork]

I actually feel somewhat differently about it. Don't get me wrong, it's extremely nice of him to take time out of his busy day to share a little information with us, but I feel like it's something that shouldn't need to be done. If their messaging were wide open and honest, there'd be no need to clarify this stuff on message boards.

Look at it this way: The podcast where this GPU speed increase was mentioned was the first time a Microsoft employee ever confirmed that the speed used to be 800Mhz. If Microsoft had been up front about these numbers from day one, nobody would be calling them out now. When they went out of their way to hide the numbers, it just made them look as though they were afraid to speak about console power because they knew they were behind Sony.

Transparency breeds trust. And Albert's explanations, though appreciated, wouldn't be necessary.

Doesn't it makes sense to wait until the numbers have been finalized before revealing exact clock speeds? Why communicate a number that they know will most likely change before release?

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Oh forgot my disclaimer

*unless you are in denial*

Meanwhile, at Beyond3D HQ

 

[cyberheater]

Meanwhile, at Beyond3D HQ

Genuinely funny

 

[onQ123]

53MHz no big deal.

as I sit here like so

Come on Sony you can do it all you need is a 70MHz overclock to reach the 2TFLOPS mark!

 

[Biker19]

B3D is actually infested with MS shills and so is a very bad source for anything. When Leadbetter and DF is sourcing B3D for his "exclusive" information in his awful articles, you know something has gone horribly wrong there.

As with AVS Forum during the days of the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war, B3D picked the MS shill side and they will lose all their credibility the way AVS did.

Yeah, Beyond 3D, AVS, & Richard Leadbetter are all a joke. I wouldn't take anything that they say seriously over actual Sony & Microsoft developers.

 

[jWILL253]

So... is it safe to expect a delay to 2014 for the Xbox ONE?

I mean... they are less than four months away from release, and they are still working on specs? Holy shit...

 

[phosphor112]

I think he is just generally confirming the performance bump, maybe even the 6%, but I doubt he would confirm to the level of detail that you are asking for.

If it is 53mhz increase, those are 99% the numbers.

So... is it safe to expect a delay to 2014 for the Xbox ONE?

I mean... they are less than four months away from release, and they are still working on specs? Holy shit...

Clock increase/decrease doesn't involve any "hard" changes.

It shouldn't affect their production.

 

[Majanew]

53MHz no big deal.

as I set here like so

Come on Sony you can do it all you need is a 70MHz overclock to reach the 2TFLOPS mark!

Pfft. Need to hit that 1GHz mark!

 

[backbreaker65]

53MHz no big deal.

as I set here like so

Come on Sony you can do it all you need is a 70MHz overclock to reach the 2TFLOPS mark!

This is funny, I like.

 

[statham]

So... is it safe to expect a delay to 2014 for the Xbox ONE?

I mean... they are less than four months away from release, and they are still working on specs? Holy shit...

read post #1421

 

[GodofWine]

Since Sony is not requiring an online check in to make their machine function, how can they go about an upclock at this point? They would surely have users who are not web connected and they would have a slower machine.

I guess they could do a mailed CD or PC thumb drive download, or take it to a friends house or gamestop maybe...but MS finally found a 'positive' for this day one check in to the Kinect HQ.

I dont put anything past Sony right now, for all we know they sandbagged the clock speed as well and are just staring at that bullet in their gun with a devilish grin, but I doubt it.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I think they did this so they can get a 1 up on marketing. We have higher clock speed than Sony! Not that i know what the upclock gives

Or they did it to help give the Xbox One a little bit more raw performance. Not everything they do has to be about one upping Sony on marketing.

I agree with one major part of what Albert said. 6% or so might seem like very little, but that could be the difference maker for a slightly improved framerate in any number of games. That little clock upgrade could mean instead of an average 27-28fps, they get an average or locked 30fps. Same for games targeting 60fps. Basically, every little bit can help improve games, if only so much. I'm most excited about the graphics driver improvement, and whether we can look forward to seeing the impact of that in any shape or form at Gamescom, or whether that might be too soon, who knows.

Either way, I would love to hear more about what was done in that graphics driver, and what kinds of improvements devs are seeing. I'll certainly be peppering a certain someone with questions first chance I get

 

[Valkyria]

Oh forgot my disclaimer

*unless you are in denial*

Being so sure about those "sources", would you do a ban bet?

 

[farisr]

Since Sony is not requiring an online check in to make their machine function, how can they go about an upclock at this point? They would surely have users who are not web connected and they would have a slower machine.

I guess they could do a mailed CD or PC thumb drive download, or take it to a friends house or gamestop maybe...but MS finally found a 'positive' for this day one check in to the Kinect HQ.

I dont put anything past Sony right now, for all we know they sandbagged the clock speed as well and are just staring at that bullet in their gun with a devilish grin, but I doubt it.

They can do exactly what Microsoft does with games on the 360 that require the new dashoard. Have all games (that are developed with the upclock in mind) ship with a firmware update on disc that requires installation before the game can be played.

 

[btkadams]

Since Sony is not requiring an online check in to make their machine function, how can they go about an upclock at this point? They would surely have users who are not web connected and they would have a slower machine.

I guess they could do a mailed CD or PC thumb drive download, or take it to a friends house or gamestop maybe...but MS finally found a 'positive' for this day one check in to the Kinect HQ.

I dont put anything past Sony right now, for all we know they sandbagged the clock speed as well and are just staring at that bullet in their gun with a devilish grin, but I doubt it.

the psp was upclocked via firmware update. i assume that ps4 games will include the required firmware update on the disc if a user doesn't ever connect online.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Since Sony is not requiring an online check in to make their machine function, how can they go about an upclock at this point? They would surely have users who are not web connected and they would have a slower machine.

I guess they could do a mailed CD or PC thumb drive download, or take it to a friends house or gamestop maybe...but MS finally found a 'positive' for this day one check in to the Kinect HQ.

I dont put anything past Sony right now, for all we know they sandbagged the clock speed as well and are just staring at that bullet in their gun with a devilish grin, but I doubt it.

I dunno why they would bother for now, but assuming they did, it could be run as a firmware update on a game disc I'm guessing. They already push out firmware updates on game discs from time to time on the PSP/Vita/PS3, so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to do it on the PS4 if it was required.

 

[DragonSworne]

Do we know of this boost is a boost to 800mhz or a boost from 800mhz.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Doesn't it makes sense to wait until the numbers have been finalized before revealing exact clock speeds? Why communicate a number that they know will most likely change before release?

Why communicate a clock speed upgrade that could possibly change before release?

I'd much prefer more information now and then more information if it changes

Transparency should benefit PR for a good product not hurt it

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Do we know of this boost is a boost to 800mhz or a boost from 800mhz.

From.

 

[Klocker]

Being so sure about those "sources", would you do a ban bet?

no thanks. I'm an adult.

 

[blastprocessor]

53MHz no big deal.

as I sit here like so

Come on Sony you can do it all you need is a 70MHz overclock to reach the 2TFLOPS mark!

No reason why Sony cannot bump the clock another 60Mhz assuming the power supply has enough juice with adequate cooling (it's got enough vents at the back). The AMD 7850 runs at 860Mhz and AMD 7870 at 1Ghz (the PS4 GPU spec wise is in between).

The clock speed is therefore conservative.

 

[Chobel]

no thanks. I'm a coward.

FTFY, I would bet if I were you, I mean you said it's a fact.

Do we know of this boost is a boost to 800mhz or a boost from 800mhz.

It's now 853 mhz, so boost from 800mhz

 

[Valkyria]

no thanks. I'm an adult.

Yeah, your last post showed it perfectly, people who doesn't trust some "sources" are clearly on denial.

*eyes rolling

 

[nib95]

53MHz no big deal.

as I sit here like so

Come on Sony you can do it all you need is a 70MHz overclock to reach the 2TFLOPS mark!

Considering I wanted both these consoles to be well beyond 2 Tflops, yes please. Sony bump this shit up and give us an even more future proof next gen console. I'll take any increase I can get, even if it is 0.8 Gflops or 1.6 Gflops.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

nah. There are still people saying devs are telling them absolutely true that ps4 has 4.5-5 GB for games. A good source on b3d not to mention the article. Of course sony won't comment on it but its pretty much considered fact now

Why do you feel the need to constantly post crap like this? First you posted that the only difference between PS4/X1 is the RAM type, now this, which was refuted by several insiders here...

 

[FunkyPajamas]

FTFY, I would bet if I were you, I mean you said it's a fact.

Ban bets are frowned upon.

 

[Klocker]

RE: stupid ban bet nonsense

:lol whatever helps you sleep at night

 

[mangochutney]

As I remind people sometimes. We have a console that is roughly 8x - 10x the performance of last gen, depending on how you define it. It's in a case that is only ~ 10% larger than the launch 360. And yet it's quieter than the 3rd major revision we did 7 years in.

And yet the PS4 manages to be more powerful than that, in a smaller case than the launch PS3 and is also quieter.

Your gloss does not stick on my face I'm afraid.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Considering I wanted both these consoles to be well beyond 2 Tflops, yes please. Sony bump this shit up and give us an even more future proof next gen console. I'll take any increase I can get, even if it is 0.8 Gflops or 1.6 Gflops.

Even if they bump up the clockspeed a bit on the gpu there is still the matter of the garbage cpu...

But yeah ,any gains would be nice

As I remind people sometimes. We have a console that is roughly 8x - 10x the performance of last gen, depending on how you define it. It's in a case that is only ~ 10% larger than the launch 360. And yet it's quieter than the 3rd major revision we did 7 years in.

See, this is the bad kind of PR, the foot in mouth stuff that makes MS PR look like they're trying to blow smoke up people's ass again.

performance/watt goes up exponentially over the years in hardware land, getting 8x -10x (what an optimistic number btw, unless you are talking about the ps4) the performance in a similar size case after 8 years is not an accomplishment , there have been more powerful laptops for over a year doing the same thing.
When you go from 90nm transistors to 28nm ones and numerous architecture changes it would be quite a feat to somehow make the thing not have much more performance/watt.

And your 3rd revision still being loud is more a testament of shitty cooling/engineering/build quality in the new xbox 360 sku, that thing should have easily been passively cooled by now in a wii sized box.

 

[mittelos]

If it is 53mhz increase, those are 99% the numbers.

Agreed, and it is a legit question. I probably shouldn't be speculating on what he may or may not answer anyway.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

nah. There are still people saying devs are telling them absolutely true that ps4 has 4.5-5 GB for games. A good source on b3d not to mention the article. Of course sony won't comment on it but its pretty much considered fact now

 

[udiie]

And yet the PS4 manages to be more powerful than that, in a smaller case than the launch PS3 and is also quieter.

Your gloss does not stick on my face I'm afraid.

Care to link me to where you found out it was quieter? I'm just curious, maybe I missed something.