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[RavenFox]

Yeah!!! F them!!! They should have learned from the PS2 last gen that people will not stand to pay for over priced memory cards!!!!!!!! Oh wait.............



Posted from a Windows computer?

I see your Microsoft bend over badge collectors edition is polished and glistening.
Also do some research before you make a fool of yourself.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I see your Microsoft bend over badge collectors edition is polished and glistening.

Considering I'm posting this from a Macintosh.... don't think so. I'm pointing out that people are no more bending over for this no more than they were bending over for Sony last gen.

Or Nintendo, Sega, or anyone other first party that has overcharged for memory.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Wow, those money-hating cockblocking motherfuckers better not crack down on the soon-to-be-hacked 250GB HDD I want to upgrade to. :/

But theyz needz teh munies to sUrVives! Also, didn't you know that you must be a pirate to store that many games on a HDD...:lol :lol

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yeah!!! F them!!! They should have learned from the PS2 last gen that people will not stand to pay for over priced memory cards!!!!!!!! Oh wait.............

Joking?

There were many third party PS2 memory cards (ironically by Datel) that only idiots were buying offical Sony cards.

Key difference between PS2 and 360 (and where your argument unequivocally fails...)

THERE ARE NO 3RD PARTY 360 MEMORY CARDS!

 

[H_Prestige]

Hhahaha, how many times has this been quoted?
I want to see this guy come back and defend that amazing statement. :lol

No need to. Someone else has just arrived to do it for him.

 

[RavenFox]

Considering I'm posting this from a Macintosh.... don't think so. I'm pointing out that people are no more bending over for this no more than they were bending over for Sony last gen.

Or Nintendo, Sega, or anyone other first party that has overcharged for memory.

That's your reply? Your posting from a mac? Uhmm yeah I know you so I'll just leave it as that.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

yeah, now they DONT MAKE THEM ANYMORE, obviously it will not drop in price

Sony still produces these cards as of today.

Joking?

There were many third party PS2 memory cards (ironically by Datel) that only idiots were buying offical Sony cards.

Key difference between PS2 and 360 (and where your argument unequivocally fails...)

THERE ARE NO 3RD PARTY 360 MEMORY CARDS!

In manual for every PS2 it states that if you use a third party memory card, you void your warranty on the system. Do you really think that if Sony could have prevented the use of these cards they wouldn't have? MS is the only company that came up with the chip technology to block third party stuff. The tech wasn't there with the PS2 but obviously from the text in the manual Sony was not happy about it.

That's your reply? Your posting from a mac? Uhmm yeah I know you so I'll just leave it as that.

Settle down there junior

 

[pestul]

Oh please only impact memory cards. I'll be royally pissed.

 

[RavenFox]

Your getting owned so bad you went to the manual lol

 

[Curufinwe]

Joking?

There were many third party PS2 memory cards (ironically by Datel) that only idiots were buying offical Sony cards.

Key difference between PS2 and 360 (and where your argument unequivocally fails...)

THERE ARE NO 3RD PARTY 360 MEMORY CARDS!

Yup, I have all my PS2 saves backed up on my PC thanks to Datel's MaxDrive for PS2.

The only actual memory cards I bought for my PS2 were the blue and red cards in the Official Sony combo pack for $40 back in 2003.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yup, I have all my PS2 saves backed up on my PC thanks to Datel's MaxDrive for PS2.

The only actual memory cards I bought for my PS2 were the blue and red cards in the Official Sony combo pack for $40 back in 2003.

Same, I have my PSX and PS2 saves backed up on my PC and PS3

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Maybe it's my old man memory or something, but as I recall, there were no third party alternatives to the official Sony PS2 memory card for many years until someone got some decent MagicGate workaround in '04 or so which Sony tried to stop in court and threaten retailers over carrying. Afterward, many titles would not work with anything not made by Sony. Maybe I'm just imagining this, I can't say for certain since it's been a while... Whatever the case, let's not ignore that others have done exactly what MS is now doing for years. The main issue here is that MS is still doing this shit while Ninty and Sony have moved on and adopted some open standards for their user storage media. Console hardware is a closed platform subject to the platform holder's decisions to be as open or closed as they choose to be (or can get away with legally enforcing).

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Maybe it's my old man memory or something, but as I recall, there were no third party alternatives to the official Sony PS2 memory card for many years until someone got some decent MagicGate workaround in '04 or so which Sony tried to stop in court and threaten retailers over carrying. Afterward, many titles would not work with anything not made by Sony. Maybe I'm just imagining this, I can't say for certain since it's been a while... Whatever the case, let's not ignore that others have done exactly what MS is now doing for years. The main issue here is that MS is still doing this shit while Ninty and Sony have moved on and adopted some open standards for their user storage media. Console hardware is a closed platform subject to the platform holder's decisions to be as open or closed as they choose to be (or can get away with legally enforcing).

Difference, Sony learned from that with them not pulling a Microsoft this gen with hard drives. Seriously, it is bad enough that Microsoft charges a gazillion dollars for what should cost no more than $30 for the lowest and $100 for the largest hard drives but then to ban those who use 3rd party memory? Good job Microsoft.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Maybe it's my old man memory or something, but as I recall, there were no third party alternatives to the official Sony PS2 memory card for many years until someone got some decent MagicGate workaround in '04 or so which Sony tried to stop in court and threaten retailers over carrying. Afterward, many titles would not work with anything not made by Sony. Maybe I'm just imagining this, I can't say for certain since it's been a while... Whatever the case, let's not ignore that others have done exactly what MS is now doing for years. The main issue here is that MS is still doing this shit while Ninty and Sony have moved on and adopted some open standards for their user storage media. Console hardware is a closed platform subject to the platform holder's decisions to be as open or closed as they choose to be (or can get away with legally enforcing).

I think the main reason for this is because when the 360 launched there was no other business model to look at besides the very successful PS2 model. I think MS look at the Sony model and saw how successful it was and I'm sure they lost out on a ton of money in memory card profits by including a HDD with the original Xbox. They saw Sony make money hand over fist with over priced memory cards and decided to follow that obviously successful business model.

Now, had the 360 launched after the PS3 with the open HDD standard, I seriously doubt we would be looking at the memory/HDD issues we have today with the 360 and if the PS4 follows the same route as the PS3, I seriously believe that this will be the last gen we have first party over priced memory cards/HDD's since the next Xbox will be an open standard.

 

[linkboy]

Maybe it's my old man memory or something, but as I recall, there were no third party alternatives to the official Sony PS2 memory card for many years until someone got some decent MagicGate workaround in '04 or so which Sony tried to stop in court and threaten retailers over carrying. Afterward, many titles would not work with anything not made by Sony. Maybe I'm just imagining this, I can't say for certain since it's been a while... Whatever the case, let's not ignore that others have done exactly what MS is now doing for years. The main issue here is that MS is still doing this shit while Ninty and Sony have moved on and adopted some open standards for their user storage media. Console hardware is a closed platform subject to the platform holder's decisions to be as open or closed as they choose to be (or can get away with legally enforcing).

Nyko made a PS2 memory card that was out about the time PS2 launched and was licensed by Sony (and was a pretty solid card too).

Mad Catz also had their card out close to launch because one of my friend's got his PS2 at launch and that was the card he had.

 

[Sporty]

Nyko made a PS2 memory card that was out about the time PS2 launched and was licensed by Sony (and was a pretty solid card too).

Mad Catz also had their card out close to launch because one of my friend's got his PS2 at launch and that was the card he had.

That's true. I bought my PS2 about 6 months after launch and bought a Mad Catz along with the system. I think it was $30 at the time.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Nyko made a PS2 memory card that was out about the time PS2 launched and was licensed by Sony (and was a pretty solid card too).

Mad Catz also had their card out close to launch because one of my friend's got his PS2 at launch and that was the card he had.

Sony wasn't happy and didn't like these arrangements and terminated the licenses of these cards not made by Sony.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2835491.html

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Nyko made a PS2 memory card that was out about the time PS2 launched and was licensed by Sony (and was a pretty solid card too).

Mad Catz also had their card out close to launch because one of my friend's got his PS2 at launch and that was the card he had.

Yeah, hmmm...okay...but as I recall official ones were the exact same price with same size as the Sony ones, though. In most situations, there was basically no incentive to the consumer to pick an off brand over the Sony one since retailers themselves didn't see a significant difference in cost, either.

Anyway, I agree with you, OldJaded, that MS was more closely following the industry standard of razors/blades on accessories and such set down by Ninty, Sega, and Sony with the setup for X360. I'm sure that after they included the HDD in the original XBOX they didn't see shit for sales on their memory cards since they were practically corner case save units to transport what data was allowed to be copied to them. It's weird, but I don't see how they can't meet people halfway by partnering with hard drive manufacturers for third party units at reasonable prices now. Whatever the case, it doesn't seem to have hurt them...

 

[Danthrax]

While I feel bad for those who will be affected by this, I feel like this is a necessary move on Microsoft's part. Bitch and moan all you want about the price, those hard drives and memory units help Microsoft make money.

I literally laughed out loud when I read this. It was a belly laugh.

Amazing.

 

[obonicus]

In manual for every PS2 it states that if you use a third party memory card, you void your warranty on the system. Do you really think that if Sony could have prevented the use of these cards they wouldn't have?

Good question. Why didn't they on the PS3, then, and in fact went in the other direction? You think they didn't have the tech?

But your position doesn't make much sense anyway. Because Sony's policy was shitty with the PS2 this somehow justifies a shitty policy for the 360? Maybe I'm misunderstanding: what exactly are you arguing? That people shouldn't be upset with Microsoft because this sort of thing was standard last-gen?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Good question. Why didn't they on the PS3, then, and in fact went in the other direction? You think they didn't have the tech?

My personal opinion on why they went open with the HDD? My theory is they had no choice. They didn't know they were going to ship every PS3 with a HDD until the last second. Remember, the included HDD wasn't officially announced until E306 and was one of if not the very last thing they announced for the system. They announced the included HDD right before they announced the final price of the system. So to put a standard HDD into every system they had to put in any random one they could. I think the slot to have it there was there all along just like the PS2.

But your position doesn't make much sense anyway. Because Sony's policy was shitty with the PS2 this somehow justifies a shitty policy for the 360? Maybe I'm misunderstanding: what exactly are you arguing? That people shouldn't be upset with Microsoft because this sort of thing was standard last-gen?

I'm not saying I agree with it... I'm saying looking at the PS2's very successful model at the time that 360 came out that I understand why they did it and to be quite honest, I don't remember much bitching about it last gen even though the Xbox had a 8gig harddrive in every unit.

Edit: I just notice you said "Sony's policy was shitty" but since they are still selling 8megs of memory brand new for $25 bucks, this is not past tense but present tense. No one is holding a knife to them and forcing them to keep charging these prices for memory. They do so because people will pay it.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I recently bought the Datel Max Memory Card and a 8GB microSD card to back up my saves and content. Now in a matter of weeks it's a useless hunk of junk thanks to a mandatory update. I'm not doing anything shady with it; I'm just a loyal customer who thought he found a solution for his growing storage problem.

Fuck you Microsoft, Larry Hryb, and any decision makers responsible for this update.

 

[Drkirby]

I recently bought the Datel Max Memory Card and a 8MB microSD card to back up my saves and content. Now in a matter of weeks it's a useless hunk of junk thanks to a mandatory update. I'm not doing anything shady with it; I'm just a loyal customer who thought he found a solution for his growing storage problem.

Fuck you Microsoft, Larry Hryb, and any decision makers responsible for this update.

How much content could you of backed up with a 8MB microSD card?

 

[Megadragon15]

I recently bought the Datel Max Memory Card and a 8MB microSD card to back up my saves and content. Now in a matter of weeks it's a useless hunk of junk thanks to a mandatory update. I'm not doing anything shady with it; I'm just a loyal customer who thought he found a solution for his growing storage problem.

Fuck you Microsoft, Larry Hryb, and any decision makers responsible for this update.

Maybe you could fit a few saves on that. Anyways, who would make an 8MB microsd card at this date?

 

[a Master Ninja]

LOL, typo

 

[obonicus]

My personal opinion on why they went open with the HDD? My theory is they had no choice. They didn't know they were going to ship every PS3 with a HDD until the last second. Remember, the included HDD wasn't officially announced until E306 and was one of if not the very last thing they announced for the system. They announced the included HDD right before they announced the final price of the system. So to put a standard HDD into every system they had to put in any random one they could. I think the slot to have it there was there all along just like the PS2.

I'm not sure I agree with you on the motivation, but even assuming you're right, they also allowed for USB drives and hell, they didn't even restrict you to MS on the versions with card readers.

I'm not saying I agree with it... I'm saying looking at the PS2's very successful model at the time that 360 came out that I understand why they did it and to be quite honest, I don't remember much bitching about it last gen even though the Xbox had a 8gig harddrive in every unit.

I didn't own a PS2 last-gen, but I had to buy a memory card for my friends' PS2. I wasn't too happy about the prices and I remember them telling me '8megs is really hard to fill up!'.

Edit: I just notice you said "Sony's policy was shitty" but since they are still selling 8megs of memory brand new for $25 bucks, this is not past tense but present tense. No one is holding a knife to them and forcing them to keep charging these prices for memory. They do so because people will pay it.

That's true, but I was speaking generation-wise when I used the past tense. Sony's current policy for the PS2's memory is just as shitty now as it was in the past, if not more so, but their policy for the PS3 is much, much better. Also, the 360 did launch first, so they have the disadvantage of not being able to match the Wii and PS3's open memory formats, but this 'crackdown' is happening now and is a move in the exact opposite direction.

 

[dfyb]

OldJadedGamer STILL brings up PS2 memory cards when people point out how undeniably absurd MS's hard drive prices are?!
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[dfyb]

Also, the 360 did launch first, so they have the disadvantage of not being able to match the Wii and PS3's open memory formats

no, 360 has USB ports just like PS3/wii. through firmware, microsoft could easily match PS3's friendly compatibility.

simply put, microsoft's just being an ass and trying to get you to spend more on their own shit. sure, sony and everybody else did similar things in the past, but only a fanboy will dwell on past policy that really has little relevance while ignoring the fact that sony has moved in a very clear open/free policy that is quite consumer friendly in contrast.

edit: to avoid needless debate over semantics, i'll just say that 'past policy' = 'past policy that may or may not be retained today', but really, we're talking about a last gen console and it doesn't really matter today because sony's direction with PS3 is very different.

 

[obonicus]

no, 360 has USB ports just like PS3/wii. through firmware, microsoft could easily match PS3's friendly compatibility.

Yeah, I was going to bring that up, but it occurred to me that I didn't have to to make my point. If MS did nothing at all it'd be more consumer-friendly than what they're planning to do.

 

[Fio]

Posted from a Windows computer?

Yes, a free copy of Windows 7.

 

[skrew]

Sony still produces these cards as of today.



In manual for every PS2 it states that if you use a third party memory card, you void your warranty on the system. Do you really think that if Sony could have prevented the use of these cards they wouldn't have? MS is the only company that came up with the chip technology to block third party stuff. The tech wasn't there with the PS2 but obviously from the text in the manual Sony was not happy about it.



Settle down there junior

http://playstation.custhelp.com/cgi...nduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=130&p_sid=W-R7eCKj

"Confirm that you are using an officially licensed PlayStation® memory card by looking for the official PlayStation® logo. SCEA cannot guarantee the reliable performance of unlicensed memory cards. "


I'm sure you will keep spinning but care to show where in the ps2 manual it saying anything about voiding warranty?

 

[skrew]

I even uploaded the ps2 manual for you to scan through.

 

[dfyb]

Sony wasn't happy and didn't like these arrangements and terminated the licenses of these cards not made by Sony.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2835491.html

yeah, and they changed their ways. they don't care who made my usb stick i use for saves and media, or who made my controllers even. i got a steering wheel when i bought my xbox 1, and even that works with my PS3. if i need extra controllers, i can just plug in the PC gamepad i've had for ages -- i also have adapters that let me use PS2 controllers. i was able to build my custom arcade stick with a universal circuit board and have it work with PS3 (as well as PC), but it won't work with 360 because microsoft is using a proprietary XID format (i'd have to buy a licensed microsoft product and tear it apart -- lame).

but most relevant to this thread, sony doesn't even care what hard drive is in their console -- they tell you how to replace it in the manual and it doesn't void your warranty.

bbububuubu...but PS2 memory cards :lol. i hope we really don't have to wait until sony discontinues ps2 memory cards before you'll shut up about it.

 

[Slavik81]

I'm pointing out that people are no more bending over for this no more than they were bending over for Sony last gen. Or Nintendo, Sega, or anyone other first party that has overcharged for memory.

The difference is that nobody else is still doing that. Products should be compared to their current competition. Microsoft is lagging behind.

You wouldn't justify CPUs, graphics chips or ram like this. Why do you think non-volatile memory should only be compared against older consoles rather than against its current competition?

 

[Woo-Fu]

OldJadedGamer STILL brings up PS2 memory cards when people point out how undeniably absurd MS's hard drive prices are?!
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I like how Edge becomes his magazine of choice whenever they haven't reviewed a PS3 game yet (Uncharted 2), or give a PS3 game a lower score than most other sites(KZ2), but he'll crow about high review scores from any other site when it is a 360 game. I guess he couldn't come up with a new bit of FUD when Edge's online score of a 9 came through for Uncharted 2. He disappeared for days after that.

I'm not happy with overpriced peripherals from anybody, and I'm really unhappy when they go out of their way to break product their customers have already purchased.

Funny thing is, Microsoft's(and Nintendo's) strategy in the matter has proven more successful than Sony's. They subsidize the cost of the main unit with increased margins on their peripherals, allowing them to lower the cost of entry. Sony lets you use just about any USB device you care to, but stumbles out of the gate with a $599 pricetag. I'd expect overpriced peripherals to become more common, not less, after this generation.

 

[Sushen]

I know some posters here used larger "hacked" 360 hard drives from eBay and whatnot so thought this was worth it's own thread:



http://majornelson.com/archive/2009/10/16/unauthorized-xbox-360-storage-devices.aspx

What a waste of time and effort...

 

[Duke Togo]

Oldjadedgamer DESTROYED. Suck it down.

 

[supermackem]

I dont have one of these but just another case of ms being asshats, if there memory cards and hdds werent so damn expensive people wouldnt need to use third party memory. The price on a 120g hdd is just damn right insane.:lol

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

While I feel bad for those who will be affected by this, I feel like this is a necessary move on Microsoft's part. Bitch and moan all you want about the price, those hard drives and memory units help Microsoft make money.

 

[MirageDwarf]

Ownage. :lol It's time to stop spinning it and comparing current gen with last gen.

 

[Somnid]

Having these devices in general is a security issue for MS which is probably why they decided to go ahead with this.

 

[firehawk12]

I kind of want to know why they haven't figured out how to stop modded consoles, given that leaked copies of games keep coming out over and over again.

Third party memory cards seems like such a minor deal to spend money on.

 

[strem]

While I feel bad for those who will be affected by this, I feel like this is a necessary move on Microsoft's part. Bitch and moan all you want about the price, those hard drives and memory units help Microsoft make money.

Yeah cause having choices as a consumer really sucks

 

[GavinGT]

I kind of want to know why they haven't figured out how to stop modded consoles, given that leaked copies of games keep coming out over and over again.

Third party memory cards seems like such a minor deal to spend money on.

They neglected to encrypt the DVD drive firmware, and it's a problem that can't be fixed without retro-fitting every currently existing 360.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It's amazing to me all the people here who grill MS for overpriced memory cards but praise Sony for doing the same for 9 years in a row.

http://playstation.custhelp.com/cgi...nduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=130&p_sid=W-R7eCKj

"Confirm that you are using an officially licensed PlayStation® memory card by looking for the official PlayStation® logo. SCEA cannot guarantee the reliable performance of unlicensed memory cards. "

I'm sure you will keep spinning but care to show where in the ps2 manual it saying anything about voiding warranty?

Read the warranty info in the back as it states in bold:

THIS WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF THIS PRODUCT: (a) IS USED WITH PRODUCTS NOT SOLD OR LICENSED BY SCEA

Third party memory cards are not sold or licensed by SCEA hence, voiding your warranty if you use them on the machine.

The difference is that nobody else is still doing that. Products should be compared to their current competition. Microsoft is lagging behind.

You wouldn't justify CPUs, graphics chips or ram like this. Why do you think non-volatile memory should only be compared against older consoles rather than against its current competition?

Because they are still being sold today. If they were discontinued then it wouldn't be an issue but as of today, the price remains the same. $25 bucks for 8megs of ram. So yes, Sony is "still doing that". Also... what "competition" was out on store shelves when the 360 was released?

Oldjadedgamer DESTROYED. Suck it down.

Actually, I stepped away to play video games but I'm back just for you

Ownage. :lol It's time to stop spinning it and comparing current gen with last gen.

Sony sells these brand new... as of today. Why after 9 years are they still priced so high? Honest question.

yeah, and they changed their ways. they don't care who made my usb stick i use for saves and media, or who made my controllers even.

Can you use that same USB memory stick or External harddrive to save PSN games to?

I like how Edge becomes his magazine of choice whenever they haven't reviewed a PS3 game yet (Uncharted 2), or give a PS3 game a lower score than most other sites(KZ2), but he'll crow about high review scores from any other site when it is a 360 game. I guess he couldn't come up with a new bit of FUD when Edge's online score of a 9 came through for Uncharted 2. He disappeared for days after that.

You must have missed my post on the other site where you stalk me where I stated that EDGE giving Uncharted 2 a 9 made the game go from a rent to a buy for me. So if you were not keeping up with the thread then it was you that disappeared for days after that and not me cause I made that post right after the review was made public.

 

[xbhaskarx]

 

[Rad Agast]

I seriously hope this doesn't affect hard drives. Dumb move no matter how you look at it.

 

[IrishNinja]

It really is a golden age, isn't it?

You purchase the console and use it as you see fit. But should the functionality you apply be unforeseen and unprofitable for the manufacturing megacorp (and I'm not talking about piracy), they label it as "unauthorized" and remove said functionality from your property. They neuter your property's functionality, with zero benefit to the owner.

I can't think of any other industry that gets away with this shit. And especially cannot fathom another industry that has apologists for it.

yeah, so nobody quoted this here on page 3, thought it warranted another viewing. jesus christ, some things make me sad when they have to be sad aloud.

as for sony - yeah, that shit was silly, but they were at it since PS1, no? they once tried telling me on the phone when my PS1 died, it was cause of a 3rd party RF switch. Lesson learned: never, ever tell any company you're using 3rd party anything ever. easy enough, however stupid.

 

[BolognaOni]

Unfortunately, this kind of stuff is nothing new for the publishing industry. They have been loathe to give customers open access to its hardware for quite some time. Ars has a pretty interesting article posted if you're interested: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/10/100-years-of-big-content-fearing-technologyin-its-own-words.ars

Closing your system to make a quick buck is the wrong idea, and hurts the industry overall. You can argue otherwise, but history is not in your favor.

 

[confused]

Last generation I paid 40 euros for an 8MB PS2 card. This gen I got my 120 GB Hdd free with my console and bought a 512MB MU for 40 also. Sure compared to other industries storage in gaming is expensive. But compared to gaming prices it isn't as bad as some people would like to make you believe.