I blame Sony. They started this crap with the eyetoy<_<
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Microsoft will "aggressively challenge" any gov't attempt to spy through Kinect
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I blame Sony. They started this crap with the eyetoy<_<
ArkkAngel007
Member
They'd have to get to the point of actually having a reason of wasting human resources to view through the peripheral. The data may be recorded (couldn't that be seen somehow through data exchange over the internet connection?), but that would mean that every Xbox One Kinect would be doing that, as individual targeting over Jo'shmo and Jane Doe aren't worth portioning out separate surveillance suites.
It's a no brainer though that all hard data, including internet history, Bing searches, and Skype logs will be likely forwarded easily upon request.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Yep, it's the best we can get from their new snafu.
It's incredible, but at this point, they have done the worse console revelation on history and I fear for anyone trying to beat them.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Me too but I guess some people really do believe MS is going to go to the authorities every time we fart on camera.
We were founded on a constitution that can't be applied to the way the world is today. Social media, technology, and the internet has completely changed the way everything is looked at. The NSA leak has caused a mass paranoia that the government is everywhere at all times which it is not. If it were, the Boston Marathon tragedy would not have occurred.
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, but now Microsoft can watch people dance...that has to be worth something, right?
Night_Trekker
Member
Yeah... they'll "aggressively challenge" any attempt, but they'll comply with the (terrible) law in the end. We know from the most recent Snowden leaked info that they eagerly help the government spy, going so far as to build backdoors into their products. (Which will be just awesome for general computer security, I'm sure.)
Read the public statements made by any of these companies like a lawyer would. You'll notice they word their statements carefully so they appear to be denying compliant behavior, but they never actually go so far as to say they'll refuse to give the NSA access to the data. For instance, sometimes they say they don't give "direct" access, but that's meaningless since the NSA is, in many cases, getting data "upstream" from company servers.
Exactly. And what will happen now? They'll need more power to protect us from similar bombing attacks in the future! I've already heard officials saying they need more power to be able to prevent crimes before they happen. Perhaps someday we'll reach that perfect point where we live in a completely risk-free society! Philip K. Dick is spinning in his grave.
We know even totalitarian regimes can't stop terrorist attacks. So at what point do we stop buying into this comforting lie that by trading freedom and privacy we'll become safer? And what good is being safe from outside threats when we're becoming less safe from potential future internal threats?
And the government doesn't have to be everywhere at once. The data is all stored so they can read it later by getting subpoenas from FISA courts under existing "wiretap" laws. And that's assuming everyone involved is following the law anyway. The NSA has already broken the law by blatantly lying to Congress about their behavior. They've proven they can't be trusted.
Read the public statements made by any of these companies like a lawyer would. You'll notice they word their statements carefully so they appear to be denying compliant behavior, but they never actually go so far as to say they'll refuse to give the NSA access to the data. For instance, sometimes they say they don't give "direct" access, but that's meaningless since the NSA is, in many cases, getting data "upstream" from company servers.
Exactly. And what will happen now? They'll need more power to protect us from similar bombing attacks in the future! I've already heard officials saying they need more power to be able to prevent crimes before they happen. Perhaps someday we'll reach that perfect point where we live in a completely risk-free society! Philip K. Dick is spinning in his grave.
We know even totalitarian regimes can't stop terrorist attacks. So at what point do we stop buying into this comforting lie that by trading freedom and privacy we'll become safer? And what good is being safe from outside threats when we're becoming less safe from potential future internal threats?
And the government doesn't have to be everywhere at once. The data is all stored so they can read it later by getting subpoenas from FISA courts under existing "wiretap" laws. And that's assuming everyone involved is following the law anyway. The NSA has already broken the law by blatantly lying to Congress about their behavior. They've proven they can't be trusted.
SwiftDeath
Member
Wow this thread just keeps going and going
Train makes no stops
Train makes no stops
Night_Trekker
Member
While I agree the U.S. government is, broadly speaking, run by idiots, I wouldn't trust anything from abovetopsecret.com without independent verification. That site is all about impossible conspiracies and secret alien visitations and such nonsense.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
all of which are now validated now that one of the hugest, and longest prevalent conspiracies has come to be true.
NullPointer
Member
Yeah, they only locked down an entire city for a few days to catch them. I wonder how easy it was for people to get approval for wide-scale surveillance measures during that time of crisis.
The worry is overreach.
The worry is casting too wide a net when it comes to surveillance.
The worry is bad apples and abuse of power and not even knowing your privacy in violated, much less having any avenue for redress.
There's a reason our system is based upon the principles of checks and balances, and it doesn't derive from trust for institutions, whether public or private.
And whether Microsoft is against any possible NSA taps or not doesn't really matter. They've hitched their wagons on this super camera becoming ubiquitous in the modern living room, starting with gaming and moving into more mainstream entertainment of all kinds.
And their past actions are catching up with them. Sucks to be them because I don't think they have a good way to audible their next moves beyond what they've already done.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Just because one conspiracy proved true doesn't mean all of them are.
SwiftDeath
Member
Exactly oversight, oversight, oversight
Personally think there should be a civilian oversight committee for programs like this
(well to be honest Prism should be scrapped but not going to happen)
Not politicians but actual civilians to weigh in on the balance of privacy and security cause the government has no idea how much we value privacy
Night_Trekker
Member
ArkkAngel007
Member
Automated software that's constantly updated with word combinations, phrases, and codexes gained through prior intelligence that runs through the various data. Some areas of collection are prioritized over others.
Still, as we've seen with the Boston Bombing (not to mention no successful interceptions that have been reported have been accredited to PRISM or the NSA in general from what I recall), it's nowhere near a concrete system. Is the current technology not up to the task? Is it even possible to corner the data the system was intended to do so, given how over the past decade it's been getting clearer and clearer to the average citizen in many nations how easy it is to intercept data in this interdependent world? How does privacy actually factor into our constitutional rights and where does that allow for law and defense to fulfill their purpose efficiently and effectively? Finally, where does that leave companies such as Microsoft that are caught in the crossfire in the grey sector of forwarding technology?
None of these are easy questions, and are the topics that should be focused on rather than trying to paint the situation to the hypothetical extremes and, as the media is doing a good job of doing, making it a point of almost entertainment with the controversy.
NullPointer
Member
Along with better personal privacy and security measures for phones and webcams.
LOL
You'll do what the government tells you to, Microsoft.
Just give customers the option to unplug the damn thing. You have til launch to change it. Either I'll take the money off my pre-order and put it towards my PS4, or I'll sell it on eBay to make a nice profit. Plenty of parents will be needing one for Christmas.
You'll do what the government tells you to, Microsoft.
Just give customers the option to unplug the damn thing. You have til launch to change it. Either I'll take the money off my pre-order and put it towards my PS4, or I'll sell it on eBay to make a nice profit. Plenty of parents will be needing one for Christmas.
That's a pretty big compliment for Microsoft, seeing that they got on board with PRISM pretty quickly!
ArkkAngel007
Member
The people who posted the TSA scans were civilians. The soldier who brains the kitten that hangs out at the FOB is at a no different level. The teacher who decides to just hand a packet out and leave the students to their own devices is a civilian capable of impacting the future of all of those students by that choice.
People are always the problem, and it doesn't matter whether you're some designated official or employee 001. By the way, how would that committee be formed? How could it be prevented from being another slave to the system as we see with lobbying between the Hill and Wall Street?
PRISM itself isn't an issue of itself, and just targeting it or the larger than life "government" is a bit of a cop out. It's the people and the intentions they may or may not have that is the concern, and of course it's one hell of an issue to tackle in how to mitigate the damage any individual can cause to one or billions.
If this is how MS thinks they can calm peoples fear, then they really are hopelessly lost.
We can already see whats likely to happen. NSA puts in a request, MS accepts, then we will know nothing about it unless there is another whistleblower. At which point MS claim they had to comply because its law.
Trust MS with this... I'd rather trust a vampire giving me a blowjob
We can already see whats likely to happen. NSA puts in a request, MS accepts, then we will know nothing about it unless there is another whistleblower. At which point MS claim they had to comply because its law.
Trust MS with this... I'd rather trust a vampire giving me a blowjob
idrinkalone
Banned
Couple of my simple suggestions for ms.
Let people disconnect the kinect if they feel their privacy is being violated.
Developers will know that every console has one so they can still add in whatever their hearts desire. And if people don't want to use the motion or voice commands let it be optional in game.
If they want to collect my data, why not give me some benefits? I am helping them out with advertising so how bout a month of free live or a discounted subscription?
I don't think they should abandoned the kinect as I see it as a great addition with a lot of possibilities. Such as inserting myself in games, motion tracking my taunts/celebrations and upload them to game, no more facial editors(just scan my ugly mug) etc.. Those are the perks I want from the kinect, not the wave my hands to navigate the ui.
If they ever do a sku-less kinect version it would just be a weaker ps4 with halo. I can't see that happening.
Let people disconnect the kinect if they feel their privacy is being violated.
Developers will know that every console has one so they can still add in whatever their hearts desire. And if people don't want to use the motion or voice commands let it be optional in game.
If they want to collect my data, why not give me some benefits? I am helping them out with advertising so how bout a month of free live or a discounted subscription?
I don't think they should abandoned the kinect as I see it as a great addition with a lot of possibilities. Such as inserting myself in games, motion tracking my taunts/celebrations and upload them to game, no more facial editors(just scan my ugly mug) etc.. Those are the perks I want from the kinect, not the wave my hands to navigate the ui.
If they ever do a sku-less kinect version it would just be a weaker ps4 with halo. I can't see that happening.
FeiRR
Banned
Of course we will. X1 will be a nice challenge for hackers to tear down and find out what's it really sending out. Then they'll disable the Kinect and spoof online requirements for "dah clowd" games, probably release custom firmware. If there are any secrets and limitations, there always people who want to get through them.
So, haven't they just, effectively admitted that they, "COULD," do this, at least in theory?
I would just assume prevent the possibility entirely, rather than trusting Microsoft. Even if I did trust Microsoft to put up a robust legal defense, those secret courts the governments been using, don't seem to give a flip about privacy.
I would just assume prevent the possibility entirely, rather than trusting Microsoft. Even if I did trust Microsoft to put up a robust legal defense, those secret courts the governments been using, don't seem to give a flip about privacy.
Modern hardware is not something an average programmer can play with. This is not like android where it is completely open. MS probably locked this box down heavily.
I cannot think of one convincing retort to this statement...
Night_Trekker
Member
Exactly why I placed "aggressively challenge" in quotes. Read the rest of my post. Microsoft is trying to deceive the public about their level of collusion with the NSA. It's all public relations bullshit. They're going to give the NSA the data it demands, bottom line. And even if they don't, the NSA will grab that data "upstream" before it even gets to Microsoft from the user. That's the entire point of PRISM.
Great post, though I would point out that intentions don't matter at all in a situation like this. Good intentions can and often do lead to horrible abuses of power. Only results matter, and we don't know who is going to be pulling the strings of a massive surveillance state in the future. Nobody does. So all this talk of "trust" is nonsensical.
And even though I know what you meant, I'll also say that PRISM's existence is an issue. (Or at least our reaction, as a country, to its existence, is an issue.) Nobody can be trusted with that level of power, period. Especially when it's all being done in secret. Oversight or no, this level of power will be abused and used in "creative" ways, if it hasn't already.
painful fart
Member
I think the goverment could use the Kinect as a compliment to monitor prisoners with fetters at home. This additional income would let MS lower the Live fees. People are looking at this in a far to negative way.
Definitely agree. These Microsoft fanboys need to get over themselves, face the truth & accept reality, & stop trying to pass the blame on something else.
LOL! Oh, wow, these posts has me cracking up hard.
Alx
Member
Skype is a communication software : it's meant to send video, voice and text to external network.
Kinect is a control interface, there's no reason any image or sound of yourself is leaving your console (unless you're using it for Skype, of course).
Cheese Raptor
Banned
Might wanna tape over the mic instead D:
painful fart
Member
Instead of pretending to be some freedom fighter MS should embrace the strengths of Kinect and promote its safety apects. Such as: Kinect can through the heart rate monitoring detect if an old person gets a heart attack while playing "Just dance" or while having sex, then call 911 and via Skype provide a live feed of the dying person to a doctor, while the ambulance is getting there. Everything accompanied with some tailored ads.
GoofsterStud
Member
Just like skype!
LOL
LOL
SwiftDeath
Member
A lifealert ad perhaps?
painful fart
Member
You mean a life insurance ad?
SwiftDeath
Member
Nope meant this
Because it's not until Kinect 3.0 that kinect can see through walls and alert the police of your activities/accidents that take place outside of the living room
Nope meant this
Because it's not until Kinect 3.0 that kinect can see through walls and alert the police of your activities/accidents that take place outside of the living room
Kinect Superman vision confirmed